Composers in our Midst

Composers in our Midst

Apologies that this has been delayed, a lot happened leading up to this New Year, 2013, and since its opening.

This is my annual nod to the composers among us, many of whom have had the courtesy to put their compositions in their details, and for others there are links to their collected works elsewhere, and in some cases a list of those already in the tune database, and there are quite a few things scattered about there. Feeling guilt for the delay and worry that I’m sure I’ve missed some ~ here’s my annual nod to the mad among us who are inspired for whatever reason to find new combinations of notes and to seek to test them with others.

I’m sure the following list will be missing some of you. And I’ve no doubt some of you will know of other links to compositions by members. My hope is you’ll fill in the blanks here, add a few more ~ yourself, a friend… The idea is that we’ll find a little time to go trolling through these comps and that after giving them some air, life, you might find something by someone else that you take a liking to. Maybe you’ll find something you like that much that you’ll get familiar with it, make it your own, and that you’d consider adding it into the main tune database here, giving credit to the source?

Here’s the initial list, by the numbers rather than alphabetical:

*Davy Rogers
http://thesession.org/members/3072

Zouki
http://thesession.org/members/3577

Ptarmigan
http://thesession.org/members/3668

Dr. Dow
http://thesession.org/members/4763

dafydd
http://thesession.org/members/5729

Phantom Button
http://thesession.org/members/9968

Reverend
http://thesession.org/members/11048

No Cause For Alarm
http://thesession.org/members/13874

the wounded hussar
http://thesession.org/members/15451

52Paddy
http://thesession.org/members/19847

nicholas
http://thesession.org/members/27102

Alex Navar
http://thesession.org/members/27713

mrkelahan
http://thesession.org/members/37511

Will Evans
http://thesession.org/members/39208

Toppish
http://thesession.org/members/49476

Kikolo3000 - in discussion
http://thesession.org/members/53878
http://thesession.org/discussions/31391

Earl Cameron
http://thesession.org/members/57656

fiddlerdan
http://thesession.org/members/60241

EndaS
http://thesession.org/members/64323
http://www.endaseery.com/Compositions.html

Jim Quail
http://thesession.org/members/69861

Nick Molyneux
http://thesession.org/members/80403

Peter Jenkins
http://thesession.org/members/83490
http://www.kafoozalum.co.uk/tunebook.html

Re: Composers in our Midst

Thanks Jim, I did actually check your details, ‘FIDDLE4’, but you haven’t any links or ABCs for your tunes listed. I know we talked about this previously, so when are you going to do it? :-D You should at least consider adding this, and links to the few of your tunes that are in the database…

I still haven’t managed to find Will’s slip jig, or remember its name… :-(

Re: Composers in our Midst

X: 1
T: Killanena Roundabout, The
M: 9/8
L: 1/8
C: Will Harmon
K: G
dcB cAF G2D|GBd dB/c/d efg|dcB cAF G2E|~F3 D2E FGA|
dcB cAF G2D|GBd dB/c/d efg|dcB cAF G2E|~F3 D2E FGA||
~B3 DGA BAG|~c3 EGc edc|~f3 fge d2e|fed cAG FGA|
~B3 DGA BAG|~c3 EGc edc|~f3 fge d2e|fed afd cAF||

There’s also "Walking Mary Home" in the same thread:

http://thesession.org/discussions/29718

Re: Composers in our Midst

X:1
T:To My Dear Departed Friends
C:Jim McAuley
S:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlkQvfO-YE&feature=youtu.be

R:strathspey
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Amaj
(3EFG|A2c<A G2B<G|F<AF<A E2 (3EFG|A2c<A G2B<G|A<cB<c A2 (3EFG|
A2c<A G2B<G|F<AF<A E2 (3EFG|A2c<A G2B<G|A<cB<c A2A/B/c/d/||
e2a<e d2a<e|c<eB<d c2 (3Bcd|e2a<e d2a<e|c<eB<c A2A/B/c/d/|
e2a<e d2a<e|c<eB<d c2B2|(3ABc (3Bcd (3cde (3def|(3ecA (3EFG A2||

X:2
T:Joe and Adele
C:Jim McAuley
S:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlkQvfO-YE&feature=youtu.be

R:reel
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Amaj
A2cA BAcB|ABcA BEEG|A2cA BAcB|faed (3cBA AG|
A2cA BAcB|ABcA BEEG|A2cA BAcB|faed (3cBA AG||
afae caec|aece dB~B2|A2ae caec|dcBd cBAE|
A2ae caec|aece dB~B2|ABcA BcdB|eage a4||

Cheers Jim, great tunes and clip!

Re: Composers in our Midst

Lovely idea for a thread, Ceolachan. :)

Re: Composers in our Midst

Nice idea for a thread, Ceolachan! I’ll be sure to check out some of these tunes. I have always liked Will Harmon’s (a fellow Montanan) compositions.

Here’s a little tune I composed on concertina. It’s simple but fun to play. We do at our session once in awhile. It’s named for my much-loved and missed German shorthaired pointer, Farley, who would chomp on a stuffed rabbit squeaky toy in time with the tunes we played in my dining room. I recorded this video in January of 2011 the day I learned that Farley had cancer and he was gone within two weeks of this. He was the best dog ever. Anyways, it’s a simple little tune.

X: 1
T: Farley’s Squeaky Rabbit
C: Patrick JWK
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gdorian
F2|G3 F G2 FG|AG D2 F4|G2 FG Ac A2|d4> e2|
.f2 .f2 .c2 .c2|dedc F3 G |Acdc A2 F2| G4:|
|:^f2| g3 ^f g3 f|g2 d2 f4|g3 ^f g2 d2|G2 D2 F4|
g2> ^f2 g2> f2|g2 d2 f4|ed c2 F3 c|dc F2 G2:|

here’s a video of me playing it a couple times, with Farley:

http://youtu.be/ATHKpdJI5CU

Re: Composers in our Midst

Thanks Dani, once again,

for diving into the moat of obscurity

and bringing out some fairly fresh fish

to fry.

Re: Composers in our Midst

A few have shown up in my head - a couple of them published in Cape Breton, a couple are here, a couple I’d be happier removing, and some not anywhere except at my house. Despite the best of intentions, it’s hard not letting myriad other influences change the traditional character of a tune, and what comes out often is a hybrid, and not "pure" ITM.

Posted by .

Re: Composers in our Midst

Yes, as I/you have heard so many folk tunes over the years, how can one know if a tune one has ‘composed’ is not just another version of one lodged too far down to be consciously remembered? Just out of interest, is there a way of checking?

Re: Composers in our Midst

Joe and Adele Greene of County Kildare are fine composers and musicians. Dulahan-irl on You Tube

Re: Composers in our Midst

drone ~ I’d be particularly interested in the ones you’d be happier having removed. But give us some links to favourites, or add them to your details. Let us give them a go.

Thanks Weejie & Mix ~ & I’ve been enjoying the links too… Wake up Farley! Nice old timey feeling to that one.

Wow! Tune #198! I wonder if that was our first of a ‘recent’ composition submission? :-D I’ll have to drop Dow a line and see if he’ll clean up that mess up caused by the reformatting of this site.

I also need to do my usual revisits and trawl and find one for the main database… ;-)

Will Harmon’s inspirations ~

Still not the tune of Will’s I was trying to remember. It’s somewhere in the main database and it was in a D-limited instrument unfriendly key until I got familiar with it and did a transcription in a key more friendly to winds in D… I liked it a lot, but I can’t seem to drag out the name. ARRGH! Was it a slip jig? I can’t think of one of Will’s tunes I haven’t enjoyed getting familiar with. He’s missed…

Re: Composers in our Midst

"Yes, as I/you have heard so many folk tunes over the years, how can one know if a tune one has ‘composed’ is not just another version of one lodged too far down to be consciously remembered? Just out of interest, is there a way of checking?"

That’s one of the values of posting them here… someone might recognize the tune that was buried in your subconscious. I also play tunes of my own at sessions without announcing them as such to see if someone tries to join in with a known tune. If that’s the case… then I have to decide if it’s different enough to keep.

Re: Composers in our Midst

Is it considered more kosher these days to post your own tunes to The Session? I got enough flack the first time I did it that I’ve never gotten around to posting a second one…

Re: Composers in our Midst

No, it still isn’t kosher or generally appreciated. But, you can add them as ABCs to your details, as many as you like without anyone complaining…

There’s a certain respect and appreciation for those that don’t dump composition after composition in the main tune database, who choose to not bother read the FAQs (under ‘Help’) and to show some consideration for the rest of us and for the webmaster Jeremy’s reasonable request for a penance… :-D After the third composition in a row ‘respect’ starts to erode away as it becomes proof of self-obsession…

But, I quite enjoy the inspiration of others, even the bizarre, though preferring them in the ‘details’ of their composer. A few have taken my fancy and I’ve moved them into the main database after giving them some time and consideration, always giving credit, respect, to the composer when doing so… It’s sadly not rare that some for some new members their first contribution here is one of those "this is mine!" However, some actually drop their compositions on site and say nothing, don’t ever lay claim to their creations. Mostly, they are ‘obvious’ creations, meaning they don’t quite fit any recognizable tradition, are over worked, queer, or show little understanding of the tradition or form they attempt to emulate ~ accepting that’s my opinion… But, some of them are pretty daft, clunky. :-D

Re: Composers in our Midst

Sol, I believe we are all living through a paradigm shift. In my humble opinion it began w/Chris Walshaw considering how to take a very old system of notation, typically scribbled on beer coasters & exchanged between a couple of people in a pub, develop it with additional characters & symbols into a graphics/postscript application with indexing capabilities which potentially could be exchanged with any number of peoples.

Inevitably worlds were bound to bounce around like billiard balls.

So, yeah, I can only imagine the sort of flack someone like yourself might get in the early days of thesession.org/tunes for *submitting* abcs of your own composition. Consider yourself initiated in the way of the net.mustard, be neither cowed nor disrespectful, consider why you’re ‘here’ & contribute as you see fit.

With great respect to all the players, composers, & the lot who scratch away on beer coasters I say, "Cheers!" The tunes will always live & breath in the world, regardless of what the digital quagmire broadcasts to it’s starving masses (i.e. everyone who is reading).

;)

Posted .

Re: Composers in our Midst

Na éisc, not sure how to respond to that, as I’ve been contributing as I see fit to this board for eight years now.

If the board is still against posting your own compositions, then I will not do so again. It’s a shame, because it certainly seems a fine way to get some exposure for them, but hey, that’s life. I can certainly understand why having every yahoo who ever strung a few notes together post them here could be a pain for the board….

Re: Composers in our Midst

Ceol, you’ve inspired me to contribute another one of mine as a gesture of appreciation for your appreciation of the tune writers among us. I haven’t posted any tunes in a long time and most of my contributions lately have been adding versions to tunes already in the main database or posting links to videos and such. I have always added mine into the main database… and I’ll do it again in this case since it has become one of the tunes we play at our local session. I wrote this tune a few years ago and it has a wee bit of traction since. I was told by someone that it was heard being played in a session they were at in Galway. A few people at our local know it and usually tease me by starting it when I’m busy fixing a button on my concertina, in the jax or chatting at the bar too long.

http://www.tipsyhouse.com/lookingglass.mp3

X: 1
T: Looking Glass
C: Jack Gilder ©2007
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: reel
K: Gdor
G3 A BcdB|c3d fgaf|gd~d2bdad| gfdc BG~G2|
BgdB AfcA|BGAF GFDE|F2AF cFAF|1CDFG AGGF:|2CDFG AGG2||
g2dg bgdg|fefg afgf|eg~g2 egcg|fefg agga|
bgdg bgdg|fdcB AFFA|BgdB AfcA|1BGAF G2 (3ggg:|2BGAF GFDF||

Re: Composers in our Midst

Regarding original tunes in the main database:

I heard a great tune at our session and was able to track it down to the session dot org. It was posted by the composer and he added a link to mp3s of himself playing his own tune. I’m really glad he added it to the main database or I might not have found it. It’s called, The Border Collie, and it was composed by Randy Miller. (celticladda) I think it’s brilliant!

http://thesession.org/tunes/5721

Re: Composers in our Midst

Reel: "The Looking Glass" ~ C: Jack Gilder
# Added by Phantom Button ~ 23/02/2013
http://thesession.org/tunes/12525

Thanks Jack, I’ll give your offering a go… As you’ve said, it gets air time in your local sessions, and beyond. I suspect that now it’s like an old pair of shoes or a well worn pair of jeans with the knees starting to wear through, or a Ford Cortina with a few thousand miles on it - and needing servicing… :-D

Reel: "The Border Collie" ~ C: Randy Miller
http://thesession.org/tunes/5721
http://thesession.org/members/12044

Yeah, I know Randy, and I’m well aware of all the work he’s done promoting the cause, including the Irish colleciton he’s compiled and published, and revamped into a second edition and printed again, he has definitely done his penance. Also, his comps get quite a wide use, including being published in print, and regularly used for dance. Here’s some of that proof / respect:

http://www.randymillerprints.com/Index/Welcome.html

Fiddlecase Books
http://www.randymillerprints.com/fiddletunebooks.htm

"Irish Traditinal Fiddle Music"
http://www.randymillerprints.com/Irishbook.htm
"New and expanded edition, released on St. Patrick’s Day 2006, of the landmark collection of Irish fiddle tunes first published in 1977. ~ Contains clear and faithful settings of 235 jigs, reels, hornpipes, polkas, slip jigs, and airs. 18 polkas have been added to the collection, as well as chords, a discography, bibliography, and extensive notes on tunes and sources. ~ The transcriptions are true to the personal and regional characteristics of fiddlers such as Andy McGann, Julia Clifford, Bobby Casey, Paddy Canny, Martin Wynne, Sean McGuire, Mairtin Byrnes, Sean Ryan, Michael Coleman, Paddy Cronin, and others. ITFM remains a unique and meticulously edited collection of great Irish fiddle music." - Randy Miller

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/itfm.htm

"The Fiddler’s Throne"
http://www.randymillerprints.com/FiddlersThronebk.htm
"A fifth of the tunes are recently composed by musicians such as Liz Carroll, Jerry Holland, Billy McComiskey, Martin Mulhaire, Randal Bays, Ronnie Jamieson, Brendan Taaffe, Sarah Bauhan, Sean Ryan, George Wilson, Josephine Keegan, and the author, to name a few. Also included are more than a dozen compositions by the late Ralph Page, dean of New England callers and a fiddler himself, and more than 20 tunes from the manuscript of New England fiddler John Taggart (1854-1943)." - Randy Miller

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It never surprises me those that think their compositions are something special. It’s not like compositions aren’t welcome, note this thread, but that there is a point where there’s an obvious lack of respect for waht this site is in the main about ~ hopefully ~ which isn’t self-promotion, though there will always be those who think it doesn’t apply to them, they’re a special case… :-/ But - it, like the many unusual attempts at composition, are nothing in the greater flow of rhythm and melody, pimples on the ass of tradition, proof of life… :-D Pass the cream would you…

Re: Composers in our Midst

Sol Foster
http://thesession.org/members/1094
& his tunes:
http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/SolsTunes.html

I did say I’d likely have missed some of these. Maybe if someone finds a tune of Sol’s they like and get comfortable with they’ll add it into the main database? I’ll have to find some time and give all these at least a once over. Thanks for the many contributions. And, if anyone else has a storehouse of their own compositions to share, in their details, or in the main database here, or stored elsewhere on another website, or their own website, as several folk listed previously have, including, bless ‘em, some with recordings as well, please add the information here. The hope is to stir up interest in such things at least annually, and intended to be on the whole non-critical, just an exploration, though once you’ve dropped it into the main database it can sometimes work as bait for a feeding frenzy, blood sometimes being drawn, though most are eventually passed over and forgotten…

Re: Composers in our Midst

Nice playing PB… :-)

Re: Composers in our Midst

I’m waiting for another goldfish to die…:-):-):-)

Re: Composers in our Midst

I’m waiting for another goldfish to die…:-):-):-)

Re: Confounders in our Midst

Whoa! I’m seeing double! Stereo!

Why waste a good goldfish ~ sushi!

Re: Composers in our Midst

I can see posting five traditional tunes to each original, but I haven’t yet found a traditional tune that wasn’t already here. Makes it kind of hard to post an original.

Reasonable to post originals in with your details, but who sees them?

How about on a forum? I have another motivation - if I come up with a tune, I’m not absolutely sure I haven’t heard it somewhere before. I’d rather not say I wrote a tune and have someone point out it’s really "Molly in the Playground" or whatever. Might be nice to run it by some people first - sort of like a trademark search.

Re: Composers in our Midst

You could always post an alternative setting to a trad tune, that counts too.

I almost posted a self composed tune yesterday, but the way I’ve settled into playing it has morphed somewhat from it’s now out dated abc transcription. When I get the time perhaps I’ll up date it and post it in my profile, unless I’ve gone off it by then, which is what usually happens to my flights of fancy ;~p

Re: Composers in our Midst

banjouke - "I can see posting five traditional tunes to each original, but I haven’t yet found a traditional tune that wasn’t already here. Makes it kind of hard to post an original."

No it doesn’t, there are tons not on site here, an endless number, and more keep being composed and recorded every day… Show you really care about it. You could always add a composition you liked by someone else?

banjouke - "Reasonable to post originals in with your details, but who sees them?"

Duh! That is in part the reason for this annual posting! Also, people are curious. If you make valued contributions to this website it will raise interest and likely that interest will include linking to your details. I do it all the time, if someone has added something of value, in my opinion. But I also link when something is daft or confusing too, or heartfelt… I am interested in people, they are the bearers of tradition, good or bad, sensible or not, a shared passion or not, the not usually being the self-obsessed… :-D

On these visits, if I find tunes, compositions, and this annual nod, I try to not only give them a little time, I try to find some I can get close to, that I like, or kind of like, and to eventually move them up into the main database, and to draw attention to that person’s profile, to give them credit and hopefully get others to check out their compositions ~ and the tales behind them. I particularly love a composition with a story to it, and often the stories are better than the resultant melodies, IMHO… ;-)

Also, many, like, for one example, Solidmahog, when adding a composition of theirs will say that they’ve more in their details. Then, if someone likes the one they’ve put in the main database, or not, they might also link on and check out the others. It’s then up to that exploration whether or not that person decides they like one enough to get familiar with it and add it to the main database. Some have actually resorted to getting friends to submit their work for them, for which there are no limitations… But that’s pretty sad really. Trust tradition, or do penance and actually add at the least five trad tunes, or tunes composed by others, before dropping one of your on into the main database. That courtesy is always appreciated, respected ~ to show respect for the rest of us and for the webmaster’s request for some balance…

Re: Composers in our Midst

Late getting in on here but I’d partially agree with Ceo’s last comment. Being bored and browsing through submissions, posts and profiles I’ve noticed quite a few self-composed tunes being added to the database, sometimes a good handful by the same person and very few of them do any ‘penance’ as it were. On the other end and as someone else stated in this thread - it’s not easy to find 5 trad tunes per to submit. Yes, you could submit variations of tunes already in the database but I find the database is already loaded up with too many variations that really don’t need to be there so just mucking it up further for the sake of adding tunes for your penance may not be the key.

So are these people that are submitting their own compositions too lazy to do ‘penance’ or just lack any new tunes to add? Or a little bit of both?

Posted by .

Re: Composers in our Midst

I’ve also found it hard to rustle up "non-me" tunes to put in - and that’s going back to when I was putting in tunes fairly assiduously, some years back. (I’ve become a lot more indolent since.) A high proportion of the tunes I’m hearing these days, whether recorded or in sessions, are recent compositions by other musicians: I’m too diffident (and indolent) to contact them via websites etc. to ask for their permission to enter their tunes in The Session, and I don’t want to do so without their permission, except in some cases where the tune has been kicking around in the world for a fairly long time.

Re: Composers in our Midst

malik writes: "Yes, you could submit variations of tunes already in the database but I find the database is already loaded up with too many variations that really don’t need to be there"

I usually will often find a lovely version on video and link it to the tune already in the database. Then I provide a transcription of the video as well. I think there really can’t be enough of these, and when I’m researching tunes I love finding the various versions and links to a video or audio in the comments.

Re: Composers in our Midst

I think malik’s point was not about adding a single settings of a variation of a tune which can be worth posting, but rather the task of covering one’s penance with "5" new tunes/settings.

Posted .

Re: Composers in our Midst

<i>You could always post an alternative setting to a trad tune, that counts too.</i>

Would your own alternative setting be considered a composition? One thing I do, since I don’t play violin, is adapt the tunes to ukulele or banjo. Usually shrinking the range, which sometimes requires cheating.

What I did with my one submission so far was add chords to an existing tune and post it in the comments section. Somehow it became a second setting, which it really isn’t, but having chords is useful.

What I can’t do with any regularity is cruise the local bars for original tunes.

Re: Composers in our Midst

I find this claim that there are no other tunes out there to add rather odd. I joined here, at the end of 2009, but I’ve still found 100+ tunes and settings to add.

If you’re interested enough in the music, there’s plenty out there. Why not check the Recordings section for albums you know or own - there’ll be plenty of gaps to fill, which is a far better contribution to the resource here, even if you’re the next Paddy Fahy or Liz Carroll.

Re: Composers in our Midst

Yeah, plenty of gaps, and plenty of wrong tunes/titles. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been looking for say, a reel, I find the name on the right album, click the title and then it’s a jig…

Re: Composers in our Midst

Sorry I’m late to this discussion! I guess everything has already been said.

I’m one of those composers who posted a few of my tunes on here before I realised the rules. I’ve been castigated and I’ve fixed the error of my ways and now I post them on my blog instead: http://tunes.fremantle.org/

I know a number of these tunes are either stolen or heavily based on other tunes I’ve heard, but I think a couple are novel.

I personally think the rule about posting self-penned tunes is a bit outdated. When thesession started there were just a few hundred or so tunes and obviously keeping them to be regularly played tunes was good. Now there are more than 12000 tunes, and many many settings of those. A few self-penned compositions in amongst those doesn’t seem much harm to me, but that’s a personal opinion not a suggestion on how to run this site, which is of course up to the BD. Of course there are always more tunes to post to keep the average up, but is it really more beneficial to post 10 random tunes that you are posting just because they aren’t on here and you need an average rather than one self-penned tune? Of course if you are posting the tunes you love and you’ve found lots that aren’t on here - that’s great. But that’s not what the rule encourages.

One thing I find useful is to play my "composition" into Tunepal. That often helps me understand if the tune is really new or just my subconscious memory of a tune I played or heard a while ago.

That is another benefit to posting tunes in the main "session" database rather than as a note - the tunes become searchable by Tunepal.

Paul

Re: Composers in our Midst

"I personally think the rule about posting self-penned tunes is a bit outdated."

I don’t.

I don’t think thesession.org tune database should be a "proving ground" for self-penned tunes. Of the compositions posted here by their authors, how many have been recorded? How many are in more than perhaps 2 tunebooks? How many are played at sessions? With the exception of a few, I reckon the majority have never been recorded, are only in the tunebook of the member who submitted them, and aren’t played by many people other than the composer. Perhaps I’m being too bold?

Compare this to musicians who’ve composed tunes and let them be shared over the years, recorded them, had them recorded by others, spread at festivals and so on. Their compositions are on here, have probably been recorded at least once, belong in a few tunebooks, and are played all over the place.

Why the difference? Not necessarily because they’re any better than some of the self-penned tunes on here, but because people have liked them enough to pass them around. So what ‘c’ is doing here, and in encouraging us to check out each other’s profiles, try the tunes and then perhaps post them if we like with some possible variations, (crediting the composer of course!) is a much better than idea than posting a compostion, seeing it drop off the front page of thesession.org after a day, and then hardly see the light of day again.

Of course, I might be completely wrong. Perhaps people wander round the festivals in Ireland and introduce themselves thus:

"Hi there, I’ve got 6 of my own tunes on thesession.org you know."
"Only 6? Why, I posted 30 in a row once!"

Re: Composers in our Midst

I agree entirely Smash, I can’t see why anyone would want to post their own tunes in the database here except for reasons of ego, perhaps commerce, maybe some dubious ideas about copyright etc. There are plenty of good tunes in the tradition and if more need to be added, well let it be done in the time honoured way of things.

Re: Composers in our Midst

"Yeah, plenty of gaps, and plenty of wrong tunes/titles. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been looking for say, a reel, I find the name on the right album, click the title and then it’s a jig…"
@jeff - You need to better understand how thesession.org’s database is set up and linked. Right now, it automatically searches for a tune with the same name as what is listed in the recording - this seems to be the first tune posted with that name. There is no way to manually link it to a specific setting, it’s all automatic. What that means is that going to a recording isn’t the best way to find a tune. You should try searching in the tune database. I wish everyone who had your complaint would read this and move on to complaining about other aspects (or offering Jeremy assistance in providing a means to manually link to specific tunes).

On the other hand, once you have the correct tune, dropping a comment on the recording with the correct link is a very helpful thing to do.

Posted by .

Re: Composers in our Midst

So is there really a problem with original tunes in the database? I wonder if Jeremy could point to an actual problem if there is one. Does it cause a technical problem? I’m wondering if people might just not like seeing other members posting their own tunes. I don’t personally have an issue with it; tunes that have no traction slip into obscurity immediately. On the other hand there have been occasions where it was an original tune that I was looking for and I was glad it was posted in a searchable database. It would be impossible to filter out which tunes might become part of the tradition from the daggy ones that are only played by their author… who would determine such a distinction?

Re: Composers in our Midst

I know very well that the database doesn’t think the way I think when I’m searching for a tune. I just wanted to comment on the fact that, despite all the tunes available, there are still some gaps.

And, assuming that I find a recording where the actual tune isn’t the one I’m looking for, "dropping a comment on the recording with the correct link" requires that I already have the link, or transcribe the tune myself and add it to the collection.

Re: Composers in our Midst

The point is that the issue of linking to the earliest tune with that name is very common, so trying to find the tune by first looking at a recording probably isn’t the smartest method of finding the tune.

Personally, I usually have multiple tabs open, so I may have the recording on one, and then find the tune through the tune database… it’s just courteous at that point to make a comment to help others in the future. (Not that I’ve done it myself - I almost never search via the recordings). That said, it’s not really the onerous to go back to the recording and add the link once you’ve found it, is it?

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Re: Composers in our Midst

"It would be impossible to filter out which tunes might become part of the tradition from the daggy ones that are only played by their author… who would determine such a distinction?"

The folk process.. as described above, I’d think that’s the way it goes.

Re: Composers in our Midst

As I have always understood it, the primary function of this website and database is, mainly, ‘Irish traditional music’, not compositions. While I ken what PB says, and agree, this really isn’t the place for folks to dump everything that ever came to mind they think is their personal inspiration, composition. A first, not so much a problem, just direct them to the FAQs and try to get their focus back on the ‘tradition’ rather than themselves and their own genius and their progeny. After three comps in a row I tend to scrunch up in a grimace, and after six ~ YES! ~ there have been a few that self-obsessed, waiting for 24 hours to pass so they can add their next work of genius ~ that’s a bit much, even if they were good tunes, which, forming a personal opinion ~ they never were… And then there’s those multiple personality members who have submitted their own comps under and alias, and praised it too. That’s just weird… :-P

I’d be happy if there weren’t any new untested comps at all, but then, as happens too, folks would dump them in the database anyway and not say anything, though it’s always pretty obvious they’re comps. Mind you, that, no comment, would be reason enough in my sense of it to slam dunk them into oblivion. Yes, I really do enjoy playing through folk’s comps, but I’d also be happy if the focus remained ‘tradition’, established tunes, and there weren’t any newbie half-baked, hard or soft boiled, battered and deep fried, curried, pickled, brined or sunny side up compositions at all. :-D But, I’m glad there are, with the known reservations… ;-)

Re: Composers in our Midst

One man’s condition is another man’s tradition.

Thx for the read. Good stuff.

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Re: Composers in our Midst

As to my earlier post (I know I’m late…) I did mean that adding variations to a tune for the sake of doing your penance would most likely just add too many settings to some tunes (some of which already have too much). I did not mean to include adding a variation that you happen on at a session or recording or who knows where that you like and think would make a good addition here. Having said that, that whole argument/statement is useless anyways. If you take a look at most of the people that put up self composed tunes here that’s pretty much all they put post so no worries about having x number of variations added for their penance because they rarely add any tunes that are not their own.

I also didn’t suggest that there are no more tunes to add but for some people it may be hard to find tunes (if you don’t know where to look) to add but as I just said - this really isn’t the problem.

I think having a separate section (if possible) for those self comp tunes would be good or have their titles a different color or just something to distinguish them from the other trad tunes. Or just have it where people can only post their original composition ABCs as a post in the discussion section. This way they aren’t in the main database but they are still searchable through the search box.

Alternatively - have a separate section (as stated above) for people that want to sell (albums, instruments, lessons, etc), trade, promote or post a composition. This would free up the main discussion section of various ‘ads’ and self promotions some people feel the need to do here.

So my two cents - eliminate self composed submissions seeing that no one ever does any penance or find an alternative way to separate them from the main database.

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Re: Composer Wannabes in our Midst

Malik, but there is a separate section for original compositions…. - the profiles.

If this does not satisfy certain egos, I humbly suggest that this might not be the right place for those.
Don’t get me wrong, I think members who have been active here for some time (or even only a while) and submitted a few traditional tunes can well distinguish which of their originals are worth posting and which not…. on this view the penalty has also a learning effect.

So… now that I’m thinking about it, such a separate spam dump might indeed keep those rookies from submitting three of their compositions in a row into the tune db right after having registered. Yep, that’s a good idea!

Re: Composers in our Midst

I think it doesn’t matter if someone dumps their own compositions into the database… if they do it gratuitously, it’s their reputation and credibility… not mine… and the tunes slide into obscurity almost immediately. Ignoring them is the best response I think if someone is just stroking their own ego by posting daggy tunes they wrote. If someone is adding their own tunes and they’re good… cool… maybe they will be introduced into the tradition via this website—only tunes of merit have any traction. Trying to police it or figure out other ways to control it is probably more trouble than it’s worth.

Re: Composers in our Midst

Yes, maybe I’m a bit pedantic in this case. My main concern is about those who evidently registered here solely to spam the db with their own compositions, and when you draw their attention to the FAQs, you never hear anything from them again. The db is confusing enough, e.g. when searching some ABC snippets. Also, I think that this reflects badly on original compositions in general.

Re: Composers in our Midst

There may be copyright issues in the case of members who submit original tunes under their website names, there being no indication on the website of who they actually are. One obvious issue is identifying the real copyright holder, who legally need not necessarily be either the submitter or the composer of the tune.

Re: Composers in our Midst

Well they’d be strange bedfellows to start with. Anyone posting tunes here with some vague idea that this will prove their ownership of copyright is so definitely out of touch with the tradition as to cast grave aspersions on the traditional nature of their ditties, in the first place.

Re: Composers in our Midst: Kane O’Rourke ~ a record breaker :-D

http://thesession.org/members/14468

# Posted by ceolachan - November 29th, 2011
http://thesession.org/discussions/28886

I’m sure I’d done something like this annually since at least 2009, but can’t find the others. I think one was started by another member, for 2012? So far searches have been unsuccessful, but I’ll keep looking…

http://thesession.org/discussions/23177
# Posted by ceolachan - November 22nd, 2009

Re: Composers in our Midst

Apologies one and all, it would seem that I am one of who didn’t check out the rules and posted too many self-penned compositions. Consider knuckles well and truly rapped! :-)

Crieftan

http://thesession.org/members/45409

Very lightly Creiftan… :-D

Consider listing your compositions in your details, names and links, and any other composition ABCs with tales of your inspiration…