flute ornament question

flute ornament question

Can any experienced fluter players help me with an ornament question. Seems as though there are many ways to roll. I have trouble especially rolling an E. I have heard that the cut part of the roll is best done with the RH index finger, the finger closest to the note being cut - I have also heard that the cut with the LH middle finger is the best. I can’t seem to get either of them to sound crisp but I think I like the RH index finger cut sound better but, it seems way way harder. Is it worth the effort and what is most commonly done?

Thanks,

Bill Coulter

guitarist and flute player wanna be

Re: flute ornament question

The way in which you get the best roll is the correct way. In other words there is no one correct way, but there are many incorrect ways (all the ways that sound like crap). I, myself, use the 3rd finger on my LH to do the cut part for any roll on right hand notes. I just works and sounds best for me.

Mark

Re: flute ornament question

Are you the William Coulter of "Celtic Crossing" fame? I have just been listening to this recently and your guitar playing is really fantastic. The " Rose in the Heather-Tom Billys " set is wonderful. I bet your a fine flute player!

Posted by .

Re: flute ornament question

I was wondering the same thing myself — I thought I saw your name as one of the faculty members in some upcoming guitar camp.

Re: flute ornament question

Yes guitly as charged - Celtic Crossing was one of my early recordings. I am teaching at several camps this summer. One is near SF called the National Guitar Workshop, another is the Rocky Mt. Fiddle Festival in Colorado, another is a teen Celtic music camp near Santa Cruz where I live - and also I am hoping to get to the Boxwood Camp in Lunenberg - as a student of course!

Re: flute ornament question

I crann on Es. The way I do is:

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Of course that is a bit more dificult thana roll, and some pure dropists forbid it. I hardly ever use my LH middle finger for ornaments, but I am weird that way, most people do. I think my approch would be using the RH middle finger, that migh be a bit easier, try it.

Re: flute ornament question

IMO there are good reasons for getting cutting technique down with most of your fingers - it can come in handy eventually. But at first the one that works for you is of course the right one!

Re: flute ornament question

I cut an A note - left hand "ring" finger - for an E roll.

Posted by .

Re: flute ornament question

Hi Bill, There are different ways to get the ‘E’ roll. One of the ways involves your index and middle finger of your right hand. There are 3 pulses in a simple roll. The first two come when you lift and replace your index finger. The third comes from a very quick momentary lift and replace from your middle finger. I always suggest people practice this very slow to train muscle memory so that your middle finger doesn’t move until your index finger is squarely back on the hole. Very small finger movements facilitate this. When you hold your ring finger down while doing the same thing you produce the same roll, but on low ‘D’. This roll for the ‘E’ and ‘D’ can be elaborated on to produce a cran.

The other way for me is as Kenny suggests followed by a tap with your ring finger on your right hand.

(Bill is also an excellent studio engineer who worked on our ‘Garden of Butterflies’ CD as well as many other projects for loads of people)

Re: flute ornament question

I’ve been working very hard on my E-roll recently. Following Grey Larsens advice, I’ve been trying to use index and ring fingers on the right and - the holes closest to the note. But I was struggling whenI needed to run several E-rolls one after the other. So I thought I’d try some of the left hand variants. They seem easier, but on my Copley, sounded nowhere near as crisp. So I persevered with the practice, and now sticking with just the right hand seems fine and sounds fine.

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Must be my Essex root -dropping my ‘h’s. :-)

Posted by .

Re: flute ornament question

Use your left hand, it is sooooooooo much easier!! And you can use your left hand for any roll.

Re: flute ornament question

A technique used by an old Irish flute player I know as an alternative to a role in the same kinds of context is what I call a "double tap". It’s pretty well self-explanatory; simply tap the D finger twice rapidly.

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This is very similar to the GHB "Birl" and a cut and added to give it the feel of a long role.

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Another useful GHB movement with a similar feel is the "Grip". On E.

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The above illustrates one of the underling principles of GHB ornamentation.

Maximum number of notes for minimum finger movements.

PP

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I don’t like the idea of putting GHB ornaments into my Flute playing, but the C# grace note = to the G on Pipes) has scarred me for life.

Re: flute ornament question

Keep in mind that, in addition to which fingers you lift, getting solid roll on any note requires a solid tone and precise rhythm. also, in my experience, getting the really crisp and spankin roll involves augmenting the initial attack either by tonguing or a glottal stop. but again, you must maintain a steady supported tone all the way thru.

Good luck with it. You’ll get it.

Re: flute ornament question

Bill,
congrats on taking up the flute. I’ve been wondering what happened to you? Please email me -I want to hear about how Kevin Burke ended up recording the Moth in the Lantern, among other things.
Arbo Doughty