Just as a contrast to Conan's recent thread about one or two individuals hogging all the tunes, and also a bit of a converse of John J the Scotsman's one about long breaks in between tunes.
Yes, there are, and should be, lulls between sets of tunes. It's nice if it gives you time to get your breath back (if you play flute or whistle) or let your muscles and posture recover (every instrument.)
But after this "refractory period", surely it's time to get back to business? But what happens when you (plural) can't think of any tunes?
Or at least decent, or unplayed but playable (by the rest of the session personnel) tunes. So you have to develop a certain skill of knowing other peoples' repertoires.
I used to keep tune lists. Other people use sheet music (generally frowned upon by most branches of Session Politburo.) Most of the time having no cues works for us, as there is sufficient input from various contributors. But we were missing our whistle player last night who usually can be relied upon to lead a fair few sets. Needless to say we still coped though.
Sometimes you get this non-verbal conversation between a couple of players. One looks at the other person, plays a few bars of tune, raises the eyebrows questionningly as though seeking approbation. The recipent will nod and offer his/her own contribution in response.
Anyone else have any tips, observed similar behaviours, whatever?
What I find really interesting is that the tunes I remember depend on who I'm playing with. When I'm at a fleadh or Festival I seem to be able to dredge up tunes from my prehistory when playing with 'strangers'.
Or even better still - find myself playing tunes that I "dont know" EUREKA Just lurrrrrve that!
Starting tunes at our sessions usually follows the pattern in your last paragraph, Danny.
As I´m sure you well know, banjo Mick O´Connor - when he´s leading a session - likes to name all the tunes that are going to be played, and asks everybody if they know them.
As I´m hopeless with names of tunes, I usually nod to all the titles he suggests and hope that when I hear them´, I´ll know them anyway. Unless I´m playing with him as a duo, I usually get away with it !
"Mick O´Connor - when he´s leading a session - likes to name all the tunes"
I wish that were always the case. I can't play a tune unless I know the name - it's weird. Bit like having an internal filing cabinet in my head indexed only by tune name. I can hear a tune played and know that i know it, but until I name it, I can't play it. Anyone else find this?
Strip the willow - I have experienced this. I think titles are becoming less important to me. But there have been times when I have heard a tune and thought, "I *know* this tune," but not been able to play along, until I remembered the name, at which point everything falls into place. I think it is akin to some musicians being unable to play without the sheet music in front of them, even though they can sing the tune or hear it in their heads with their eyes closed.
I find that if I've learned a tune without knowing its name, there's no problem. However, if I hear a tune that I know that's got a name which I should know then this is when the difficulty arises. Rather strange.
It's also a common practice not to name tunes but play the first few bars of each tune in a set first to see if the company knows them.
The last 3 posters - yes, same here. I feel more confident playing the tune once it has a label on it. Strange.
Hijack? isn't that how one greets Mr. Gilder?
O allright then Maniac. Is there a tabed version of Duelling Banjos for the tenor? I was dissapointed when I bought Sully's book and c.d. which had that tune in. Sully's demonstration on the c.d. was excellent but on reading the book he points out that " due to copyright he can't publish the music he is playing".I for one get asked to play this piece everytime I go out with our "band" and reply - "I dont know it, sorry"
Newty - learn Duelling Banjos, by all means. But, whatever you do, when asked to play it, keep giving the same reply - please! for the sake of all tenor banjo players and those that play with them.
Admirable answer o kitchen utensile. However - it is nice ( if thats the right word ) to have at least one tune that is associated with your chosen instrument. I mean, is there a quintessential whistle tune or pipe or fiddle tune? I think not. How many non-musicians happen across an Irish music session and say "wow, a set of pipes, can you play . . . . ."
G
E-----------|---------------------|-------------------
A---2--3--|----5--2--3--0----|---2----------0---
D----------|---------------------|------5------------
G----------|---------------------|--------------------
If you ever go to see Hayseed Dixie you will have the pleasure of hearing "Fuedin' Banjo" (note singular banjo) done by the Reno brothers a bit more in the style of Don Reno, their father, who wrote it, than Eric Weissberg's arrangement.
Nothing wrong with the tune at all except its unfortunate notoriety.
In bluegrass and country they are not at all bashful about naming tunes after instruments - Fiddle Blues, Mandolin Blues, Steel Guitar Rag etc. Or Classical - Mandolin concerto etc. But why is a pipe tune called Banjo Breakdown?
Unfortunately fidkid, I have made the mistake of answering the request with the very notes you tabed out. You never hear the end of it once you do that!
On this board, to admit that you know and have played "Dueling Banjo's" in 5-finger style, potentially opens one up to scorn and derision that is only reserved for the worst offenders of session law. So, I won't admit that I know it and will play it, including when it's requested, especially when accompanied by a cash handshake.
Okay, here’s the tab as best I could work out for Doolin Banjos – I worked it out on my mandolin combining bits of the 5-string banjo and guitar parts. It should work for a tenor banjo tuned GDAE. Hope it doesn’t get too garbled, looked okay on my server. In the bluegrass version the banjo just becomes a(n impressive) wall of sound and is melodically pretty boring – I figure you could just go through it once then shift to a highspeed reel like Foxhunter’s in G.
Hey Fidkid, I think you are on to something good there. The wall of sound you describe is so difficult to replicate on tenor but thats quite good. Any more suggestions? Come on Tom Banjovi - I bet you got a version!!
You can approximate the 3-finger 5-string sound a bit by cross-picking, somewhat like in the 9th bar of fidkid's version.
After all, that's how Jesse McReynolds' cross-picking got going - trying to match Scruggs style banjo-picking.
As I've said before I've nothing against playing it. The first time I was asked was in a youth hostel in Victoria BC in 1978 when a dreamy-looking Quebecoise lass kneeling on the floor leant on my knee and asked me to play "Deli-fránce". It took me a while to cotton on to what she was wanting but in the end I was glad I did. So I don't grudge that tune at all!
Deliverance
Deliverance
...or delivery rather.
Just as a contrast to Conan's recent thread about one or two individuals hogging all the tunes, and also a bit of a converse of John J the Scotsman's one about long breaks in between tunes.
Yes, there are, and should be, lulls between sets of tunes. It's nice if it gives you time to get your breath back (if you play flute or whistle) or let your muscles and posture recover (every instrument.)
But after this "refractory period", surely it's time to get back to business? But what happens when you (plural) can't think of any tunes?
Or at least decent, or unplayed but playable (by the rest of the session personnel) tunes. So you have to develop a certain skill of knowing other peoples' repertoires.
I used to keep tune lists. Other people use sheet music (generally frowned upon by most branches of Session Politburo.) Most of the time having no cues works for us, as there is sufficient input from various contributors. But we were missing our whistle player last night who usually can be relied upon to lead a fair few sets. Needless to say we still coped though.
Sometimes you get this non-verbal conversation between a couple of players. One looks at the other person, plays a few bars of tune, raises the eyebrows questionningly as though seeking approbation. The recipent will nod and offer his/her own contribution in response.
Anyone else have any tips, observed similar behaviours, whatever?
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Deliverance
What I find really interesting is that the tunes I remember depend on who I'm playing with. When I'm at a fleadh or Festival I seem to be able to dredge up tunes from my prehistory when playing with 'strangers'.
Or even better still - find myself playing tunes that I "dont know" EUREKA
Just lurrrrrve that!
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by breandan
Re: Deliverance
Starting tunes at our sessions usually follows the pattern in your last paragraph, Danny.
As I´m sure you well know, banjo Mick O´Connor - when he´s leading a session - likes to name all the tunes that are going to be played, and asks everybody if they know them.
As I´m hopeless with names of tunes, I usually nod to all the titles he suggests and hope that when I hear them´, I´ll know them anyway. Unless I´m playing with him as a duo, I usually get away with it !
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by murfbox
Re: Deliverance
"Mick O´Connor - when he´s leading a session - likes to name all the tunes"
I wish that were always the case. I can't play a tune unless I know the name - it's weird. Bit like having an internal filing cabinet in my head indexed only by tune name. I can hear a tune played and know that i know it, but until I name it, I can't play it. Anyone else find this?
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by stripthewillow
Re: Deliverance
Strip the willow - I have experienced this. I think titles are becoming less important to me. But there have been times when I have heard a tune and thought, "I *know* this tune," but not been able to play along, until I remembered the name, at which point everything falls into place. I think it is akin to some musicians being unable to play without the sheet music in front of them, even though they can sing the tune or hear it in their heads with their eyes closed.
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by ragaman
Re: Deliverance
I find that if I've learned a tune without knowing its name, there's no problem. However, if I hear a tune that I know that's got a name which I should know then this is when the difficulty arises. Rather strange.
It's also a common practice not to name tunes but play the first few bars of each tune in a set first to see if the company knows them.
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Deliverance
The last 3 posters - yes, same here. I feel more confident playing the tune once it has a label on it. Strange.
Hijack? isn't that how one greets Mr. Gilder?
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Deliverance
...and here I sit thinking this thread was going to discuss banjo players with Downs Syndrome...
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by pbassnote
Re: Deliverance
Hence the title of the thread, to get your attention!
But feel free to talk about duelling guitars and banjos, I don't care.............
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Deliverance
O allright then Maniac. Is there a tabed version of Duelling Banjos for the tenor? I was dissapointed when I bought Sully's book and c.d. which had that tune in. Sully's demonstration on the c.d. was excellent but on reading the book he points out that " due to copyright he can't publish the music he is playing".I for one get asked to play this piece everytime I go out with our "band" and reply - "I dont know it, sorry"
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Newty
Re: Deliverance
Newty - learn Duelling Banjos, by all means. But, whatever you do, when asked to play it, keep giving the same reply - please! for the sake of all tenor banjo players and those that play with them.
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by ragaman
Re: Deliverance
Admirable answer o kitchen utensile. However - it is nice ( if thats the right word ) to have at least one tune that is associated with your chosen instrument. I mean, is there a quintessential whistle tune or pipe or fiddle tune? I think not. How many non-musicians happen across an Irish music session and say "wow, a set of pipes, can you play . . . . ."
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by Newty
Re: Deliverance
Well, at least learn this much:
G
E-----------|---------------------|-------------------
A---2--3--|----5--2--3--0----|---2----------0---
D----------|---------------------|------5------------
G----------|---------------------|--------------------
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Deliverance
#$%! the top G is a chord
# Posted on November 17th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Deliverance
Whistle - The Lonesome Boatman?
I don't play that one either, especially when asked.
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Deliverance
If you ever go to see Hayseed Dixie you will have the pleasure of hearing "Fuedin' Banjo" (note singular banjo) done by the Reno brothers a bit more in the style of Don Reno, their father, who wrote it, than Eric Weissberg's arrangement.
Nothing wrong with the tune at all except its unfortunate notoriety.
In bluegrass and country they are not at all bashful about naming tunes after instruments - Fiddle Blues, Mandolin Blues, Steel Guitar Rag etc. Or Classical - Mandolin concerto etc. But why is a pipe tune called Banjo Breakdown?
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by Bren
Re: Deliverance
Unfortunately fidkid, I have made the mistake of answering the request with the very notes you tabed out. You never hear the end of it once you do that!
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by Newty
Re: Deliverance
On this board, to admit that you know and have played "Dueling Banjo's" in 5-finger style, potentially opens one up to scorn and derision that is only reserved for the worst offenders of session law. So, I won't admit that I know it and will play it, including when it's requested, especially when accompanied by a cash handshake.
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by halfwaythere
Re: Deliverance
Oops..3-finger style on a 5-string banjo is what I meant...
(5-finger style sounds rather odd.)
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by halfwaythere
May God Have Mercy On My Soul
Okay, here’s the tab as best I could work out for Doolin Banjos – I worked it out on my mandolin combining bits of the 5-string banjo and guitar parts. It should work for a tenor banjo tuned GDAE. Hope it doesn’t get too garbled, looked okay on my server. In the bluegrass version the banjo just becomes a(n impressive) wall of sound and is melodically pretty boring – I figure you could just go through it once then shift to a highspeed reel like Foxhunter’s in G.
X:1
T:Doolin Banjos
M:2/4
K:G
Bc|"G" d2B2 c2A2 | B2G2 A3 z | B2Bd A2B2 |
G2B2 A2 z G| G2G2 A2B2 | G2 G,2 A,2 B,2 |
"C"C2 Ec egGe|gAdg dGed|"G" G2gG dgGd |gGdg e2 d2|
"D"d2 cd gddg| cdcd gddg|"G" GdgB ABgB|G4 z4|
....................G
E----------|--------------------|--------------------|-------------------------|
A----2-3--|---5--2--3--0---|--2----------0-----|-----------2----0---2--|
D----------|-------------------|------5-------------|--5-----5---------------|
G----------|-------------------|---------------------|-------------------------|
E-|---------------------|----------------------|--------------------|
A-|-----2-----0--------|-----------0---2----|--------------------|
D-|-5--------------5---|---5---5------------|---5---------------|
G-|---------------------|----------------------|---------0--2--4--|
........C......................................................................G
E-|-------------0---3----0---|---3------3-------0-----|------------3------------3--------|---3-------3-------0----------|
A-|----------3----------------|------0-5-------5----5--|----------------------5--------5--|---------5----------------5----|
D-|-------2-----------5------|--------------5-----------|---5----------5------------5------|-----5-------------------------|
G-|-5-------------------------|---------------------------|------------------------------------|--------------------------------|
...D....................................G
E-|----------------3------3--|---------------3-----3-|-------3------------3----|------------------|
A-|---5----3-5-----5-5-----|---3-5-3-5----5-5---|----5---2----0-2---2--|------------------|
D-|---------------------------|-------------------------|-5-----------------------|---5---------------|
G-|---------------------------|-------------------------|--------------------------|------------------|
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Deliverance
Hey Fidkid, I think you are on to something good there. The wall of sound you describe is so difficult to replicate on tenor but thats quite good. Any more suggestions? Come on Tom Banjovi - I bet you got a version!!
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by Newty
Re: Deliverance
Thanks Newty. Uh, those chords on the last line should be: 2 measures D -- then 2 measures G.
# Posted on November 18th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Deliverance
You can approximate the 3-finger 5-string sound a bit by cross-picking, somewhat like in the 9th bar of fidkid's version.
After all, that's how Jesse McReynolds' cross-picking got going - trying to match Scruggs style banjo-picking.
As I've said before I've nothing against playing it. The first time I was asked was in a youth hostel in Victoria BC in 1978 when a dreamy-looking Quebecoise lass kneeling on the floor leant on my knee and asked me to play "Deli-fránce". It took me a while to cotton on to what she was wanting but in the end I was glad I did. So I don't grudge that tune at all!
# Posted on November 19th 2006 by Bren