Kindly requesting advice from experienced box players on a somewhat painful subject.
Over the past month or so, I have moved from my nice, light giustozzi wood box to a Salterelle (Kosher) Connemara III. The Connemara seems to a bit heavier and deeper (dimensionally) than my giustozzi. I suspect it is less than 0.5kg heavier than the giustozzi.I play over 2 hours per day.
Problem: My back, wrist muscles in my left chest have started killing me! (btw, I know the old joke about the accordionist phoning his doctor about chest pain, to whit the doctor says take off your accordion and see if it stops....if not call an ambulance!)
Question: Since nothing in life is new-and there is a joke about it already, I assume some box players have experienced this. Aside from 12 ounce curls, is there some exercise regimen that anyone does to get around this problem?
Quit playing the Saltarelle until the pains dissipate then start again playing with less force and after some physical conditioning until your muscles are developed enough to handle the increased strain of operating the Saltarelle and what you've described previously as its "very stiff" bellows. Show a physical therapist what button box playing entails and ask for specific exercise instructions, otherwise learn to practice Pilates or yoga to strengthen your abdominal muscles, support your back and generally make you more supple. You may be overdue for a comprehensive physical examination if something as minor as accordion bellows resistance is "killing" you.
I know how ya feel.I made the change from a tiny castagnari dinn2 to a poalo soprani.jeez its heavy!!Just take it easy playing until you get used to the box and you will be grand.
No. Sadly I am in pretty good physical shape. I can't use that as an excuse I suppose its easier to lay it on the new box!
I tried to ease into the Salterelle. About 75% of the time on the guistozzi and then the rest on the new box. Last weekend I had to perform for some early things leading to the 'High Holy Day' and decided the time was right to strart getting some of the investment out of the new box. Sounded good. But maybe it needs more working in. Still I've got to find something to get me physically comfortable with the box.
The problem going back and forth between the two is the basses are different so there are some mental gymnastics at this point going back and forth from the 8 to the 12.
Pilates... When the 21 year old daughter was 17 or 18 she had some videos on that. Maybe if nothing else I could find those and it would justify watching pretty young things in tight outfits do things I wouldnt dream of!
Accordions can be a little bit stiff when you first get them. Maybe you should try pulling it in and out a few times with the air button before you play any notes.
NOTE: Don't pull too hard, you don't want to break the accordion.
you seem to say that your wrists are giving trouble. If that's the case, be careful.
you can waste your life, spoil your technique and damage your tendons waiting for a stiff box to loosen up.
I was once in your position and despite all kinds of efforts the (Salterelle) box wasn't any less stiff after two years playing so I traded it for a different one. I've never looked back.
I've since played Salterelles that were delightfully easy, but I've also found quite a lot of stiff ones. I certainly wouldn't buy one unseen or unplayed.
I hope you're lucky and that the box loosens up quickly.
I hope the bellows loosen up a bit. I was exercising the bellows while watching television at night with Herself. But the need for the box got me playing it earlier than I planned.
When I bought it, I thought the issue I would have was more the weight, which was my first impression. Also, the reed tuning bothered me, so the bellows were not something I paid much attention to. But since the price was based on the sellers pre-high US exchange rate as a starting point, it was a very nice deal compared to what it would cost new today.
Alot of the little bugs (keys catching on the keyboard holes-not an issue us guys who also play stepped keyboards are accustomed to, and to some extent the tuning from lack of use) are worked out/working themselves out.
I think I will practice on the giustozzi more spend more time sitting with Herself, while exercising the bellows and enjoying something chilled and mildly alcoholic......Takes the edge off the c**p on TV. Might make the back a bit less noticable!
Now there's an idea. Watch the Pilates videos with the sweet young things in tight clothes doing things I couldn't imagine, while exercising the bellows and enjoying something chilled and mildly alcolholic.
Not trying to be flip. Just as I type this the wrist is aching and the sarcasm takes the edge off!
I thought it was just me experiencing aches. I got my Castagnari Kriss III in October and it's giving me hell when i play fast tunes. The thing is i work on the buildings so heavy work comes with the job but these bellows are rigid and very air tight. Now going what people say here i'm damned if i'm going to wait two years for it to loosen up. Also my first accordion i played as a young lad had two straps which i used all the time not knowing any different so i ordered two with the Kriss. Now the problem i have is i can't play for more than five minutes without the left strap (Bass side) slipping down on my arm which causes me to try and hold on tighter to the box. This is a real problem i find especially if you're in the middle of a fast flowing reel i just can't get used to one strap and the box moves all over the place resulting in the throbbing forearm syndrome. I know most accordion players use one strap no problem but i can't, at least at the moment.
lose the connemara, and since you seem to like saltarelles, get a saltarelle bouebe and have the reeds tuned to your taste. the bouebe is a volume monster with lung power far out of proportion to its size, all you could ever need and way, way lighter and easier to manipulate than a connemara. bouebes are larger and heavier than compact boxes such as castagnaris but they are feather-light both to wear and to handle, as compared to connemaras. and they are as loud as hell.
My teacher switched me to two straps, but have the same slipping problem. I was moving the treble side of the box too much.
ceemonster
My guistozzi actually is nicer than the Boube's I played. So at that point I haven't even thought of not keeping it. But is is tune nice and dry so I use it when I am playing in with alot of non-trad musicians....less b*tching about accordion tuning. And it is loud...tro the point where we had to vocer some of the vent holse on the bass side in particular to tone it down. I played in one session where one of guys who has been there forever was playing a gorgeous Galliard. Pretty sound but it was a whisper. Mine was drowning him out.
The Connemara is wetter. With all the reeds in play really pretty wet. So it is nice for the slow things and where you want to pop out on a solo.
In addition to working the bellows in front of the video with the sweet young things in tights doing pilates, I have a couple of exercises from someone with alot of carpal tunnel issues-kind of strange, but the pain seems to have gone down... And this morning I practiced standing up which seemed to be less painful on the back.
Why do we put up with this sort of thing for the priviledge of plying the music, when we could just as easily be on the other side of the bar at the pub drinking copious amounts of Guiness and sleeping late and then carousing instead of practicing?
fair play, but this thread opened with you asking for input. and the input is simply that the lone possible solution to the quandary you described, is, losing the cumbersome, heavy & painful box, and playing a light, responsive and easier-on-the-body box, be it a bouebe, or otherwise, i could care less what make or model. i believe you already knew this, but it is human nature sometimes to wish someone would come along and tell us there is a way to have something that we know isn't possible. i know, i've been there.
That was sort of side bar discussion to the original topic which was the original request for advice. I sometimes put in too much detail, but I wanted to let folks kind enough to respond what circumstances I was dealing with.
I have been trying to cobble together some sort of plan to deal with the wrist and back issues.
Several times in my keyboard playing world I have managed to get carpal tunnel. It is miserable. And ssince I am relatively new on box there are many mysteries to me that others have already seen and dealt with.
Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Kindly requesting advice from experienced box players on a somewhat painful subject.
Over the past month or so, I have moved from my nice, light giustozzi wood box to a Salterelle (Kosher) Connemara III. The Connemara seems to a bit heavier and deeper (dimensionally) than my giustozzi. I suspect it is less than 0.5kg heavier than the giustozzi.I play over 2 hours per day.
Problem: My back, wrist muscles in my left chest have started killing me! (btw, I know the old joke about the accordionist phoning his doctor about chest pain, to whit the doctor says take off your accordion and see if it stops....if not call an ambulance!)
Question: Since nothing in life is new-and there is a joke about it already, I assume some box players have experienced this. Aside from 12 ounce curls, is there some exercise regimen that anyone does to get around this problem?
Advice greatly appreciated.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Quit playing the Saltarelle until the pains dissipate then start again playing with less force and after some physical conditioning until your muscles are developed enough to handle the increased strain of operating the Saltarelle and what you've described previously as its "very stiff" bellows. Show a physical therapist what button box playing entails and ask for specific exercise instructions, otherwise learn to practice Pilates or yoga to strengthen your abdominal muscles, support your back and generally make you more supple. You may be overdue for a comprehensive physical examination if something as minor as accordion bellows resistance is "killing" you.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by joesmith
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
I know how ya feel.I made the change from a tiny castagnari dinn2 to a poalo soprani.jeez its heavy!!Just take it easy playing until you get used to the box and you will be grand.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by dinn2
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Laitch
No. Sadly I am in pretty good physical shape. I can't use that as an excuse
I suppose its easier to lay it on the new box!
I tried to ease into the Salterelle. About 75% of the time on the guistozzi and then the rest on the new box. Last weekend I had to perform for some early things leading to the 'High Holy Day' and decided the time was right to strart getting some of the investment out of the new box. Sounded good. But maybe it needs more working in. Still I've got to find something to get me physically comfortable with the box.
The problem going back and forth between the two is the basses are different so there are some mental gymnastics at this point going back and forth from the 8 to the 12.
Pilates... When the 21 year old daughter was 17 or 18 she had some videos on that. Maybe if nothing else I could find those and it would justify watching pretty young things in tight outfits do things I wouldnt dream of!
thanks
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Accordions can be a little bit stiff when you first get them. Maybe you should try pulling it in and out a few times with the air button before you play any notes.
NOTE: Don't pull too hard, you don't want to break the accordion.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by Walnut Box
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
you seem to say that your wrists are giving trouble. If that's the case, be careful.
you can waste your life, spoil your technique and damage your tendons waiting for a stiff box to loosen up.
I was once in your position and despite all kinds of efforts the (Salterelle) box wasn't any less stiff after two years playing so I traded it for a different one. I've never looked back.
I've since played Salterelles that were delightfully easy, but I've also found quite a lot of stiff ones. I certainly wouldn't buy one unseen or unplayed.
I hope you're lucky and that the box loosens up quickly.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
I hope the bellows loosen up a bit. I was exercising the bellows while watching television at night with Herself. But the need for the box got me playing it earlier than I planned.
When I bought it, I thought the issue I would have was more the weight, which was my first impression. Also, the reed tuning bothered me, so the bellows were not something I paid much attention to. But since the price was based on the sellers pre-high US exchange rate as a starting point, it was a very nice deal compared to what it would cost new today.
Alot of the little bugs (keys catching on the keyboard holes-not an issue us guys who also play stepped keyboards are accustomed to, and to some extent the tuning from lack of use) are worked out/working themselves out.
I think I will practice on the giustozzi more spend more time sitting with Herself, while exercising the bellows and enjoying something chilled and mildly alcoholic......Takes the edge off the c**p on TV. Might make the back a bit less noticable!
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Now there's an idea. Watch the Pilates videos with the sweet young things in tight clothes doing things I couldn't imagine, while exercising the bellows and enjoying something chilled and mildly alcolholic.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
I thought it was just me experiencing aches. I got my Castagnari Kriss III in October and it's giving me hell when i play fast tunes. The thing is i work on the buildings so heavy work comes with the job but these bellows are rigid and very air tight. Now going what people say here i'm damned if i'm going to wait two years for it to loosen up. Also my first accordion i played as a young lad had two straps which i used all the time not knowing any different so i ordered two with the Kriss. Now the problem i have is i can't play for more than five minutes without the left strap (Bass side) slipping down on my arm which causes me to try and hold on tighter to the box. This is a real problem i find especially if you're in the middle of a fast flowing reel i just can't get used to one strap and the box moves all over the place resulting in the throbbing forearm syndrome. I know most accordion players use one strap no problem but i can't, at least at the moment.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by upmine3
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
lose the connemara, and since you seem to like saltarelles, get a saltarelle bouebe and have the reeds tuned to your taste. the bouebe is a volume monster with lung power far out of proportion to its size, all you could ever need and way, way lighter and easier to manipulate than a connemara. bouebes are larger and heavier than compact boxes such as castagnaris but they are feather-light both to wear and to handle, as compared to connemaras. and they are as loud as hell.
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by ceemonster
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
um3
My teacher switched me to two straps, but have the same slipping problem. I was moving the treble side of the box too much.
ceemonster
My guistozzi actually is nicer than the Boube's I played. So at that point I haven't even thought of not keeping it. But is is tune nice and dry so I use it when I am playing in with alot of non-trad musicians....less b*tching about accordion tuning. And it is loud...tro the point where we had to vocer some of the vent holse on the bass side in particular to tone it down. I played in one session where one of guys who has been there forever was playing a gorgeous Galliard. Pretty sound but it was a whisper. Mine was drowning him out.
The Connemara is wetter. With all the reeds in play really pretty wet. So it is nice for the slow things and where you want to pop out on a solo.
In addition to working the bellows in front of the video with the sweet young things in tights doing pilates, I have a couple of exercises from someone with alot of carpal tunnel issues-kind of strange, but the pain seems to have gone down... And this morning I practiced standing up which seemed to be less painful on the back.
Why do we put up with this sort of thing for the priviledge of plying the music, when we could just as easily be on the other side of the bar at the pub drinking copious amounts of Guiness and sleeping late and then carousing instead of practicing?
We must've all had nuns in Grammar school!
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
corrections
"it is tuned nice and dry"
"cover some of the vent holes"
"Guinness"
"practising' (still don't know the correct spelling)
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
fair play, but this thread opened with you asking for input. and the input is simply that the lone possible solution to the quandary you described, is, losing the cumbersome, heavy & painful box, and playing a light, responsive and easier-on-the-body box, be it a bouebe, or otherwise, i could care less what make or model. i believe you already knew this, but it is human nature sometimes to wish someone would come along and tell us there is a way to have something that we know isn't possible. i know, i've been there.
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by ceemonster
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
Ceemonster
That was sort of side bar discussion to the original topic which was the original request for advice. I sometimes put in too much detail, but I wanted to let folks kind enough to respond what circumstances I was dealing with.
I have been trying to cobble together some sort of plan to deal with the wrist and back issues.
Several times in my keyboard playing world I have managed to get carpal tunnel. It is miserable. And ssince I am relatively new on box there are many mysteries to me that others have already seen and dealt with.
Thanks for your help
Always appreciated
Zip
# Posted on March 14th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Advice requested in the ongoing box saga
for left hand strap problems get a backstrap. It helps posture and spreads the load as well as holding the strap in the right place when slack.
# Posted on March 15th 2008 by millionyears_bc