yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I'm just not happy with it. I know Will kind of painted himself into a corner with it and in the end, didn't really give himself much of a choice. It's just that the reactions are just so predictable. "your playing is pleasant enough, but lacks power"? What a stupid pile of nonsense, he's just playing a few tunes in his kitchen for christ sake.
One of the things I always liked about coming here was that the advice stood on its own. Take it or leave it. It's never been personal, just abstract opinion. When the advice is bad, it's obvious. We argue about it and anyone watching from the sides can make up their own minds. "Prove it" is just another layer of ego that is counterproductive. You knew Will could play because his postings over the years are of the highest order. You knew jig couldn't because his postings are bonkers. But in the end, it shouldn't really matter if you can play or not. It's not about the ego of playing the music yourself, it's about understanding it and loving it. My dad knows more about this music than anyone I know, and he's never played a note in his life. (he's a brilliant whistler though)
If points need to be illustrated with bits of real music, there are plenty of clips of masters available to link to. And when when people post links to rubbish players, you know they are talking rubbish.
Jig complains of bullying, but it was he who started all this playground ego drivel and it's a culture that is now very difficult to get out of. People lose their temper and it's understandable, suffering fools is not easy.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Aye Michael 'tis the way of the new world I'm afraid and I don't think this community can insulate itself from the effects. That said, I don't think personal attacks are anything new around here really, perhaps the occurrences have escalated in frequency, but they are certainly not a new phenomenon in my opinion.
I agree it sure would be nice to see this type of nonsense disappear from social interaction altogether, but that I'm afraid is a dream that I don't think I'll see come to fruition before my walk ends. I find comfort from this thought by playing music, good. bad, or indifferent, by my own or another's measure. Escapism perhaps, but as I see it when putting my canoe in the river I have a choice as to whether I paddle downstream or up.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Ok I take your point Llig and if you aren't happy with putting your music on this site then that's fine by me. I don't think you or Will or benhall have anything to prove, I just think it's nice to hear what you can do.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Will ,started the attack upon me which was unprovoked.and took one clip which was only one aspect of my playing,I use the concertina for many other musics other than ITM,Song accompaniment ,in the past light classical music[this enables me to play in awkward flat keys which requires technique]
sorry Micheal,but that is my genuine opinion,his playing is good, but could be improved if he played with more oomph,I think thats constructive criticism,its either to do with the way he is holding the bow or the lack of wrist action,or the height of his right arm ,if he wanted to improve to become an even better player,analysis is needed.
playing tunes in different keys has a point
Sergeant Earlys dream is originally notated in a minor,this requires going up to a high c,obtained by a finger extension or third position,which requires classical type technique.it sounds brighter in this key.
as regards playing in the kitchen,MattCranitch or KevinBurke,playing in their kitchen,would still sound mighty.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I don't believe you Dick. There's no 'oomph' cause you're not listening.
To paraphrase Wesley Snipes in that wonderful film...erm...
'White Men can't jump'..
'Look man, you can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because you're listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him. '
How do you know how they'd sound in their kitchen?...Even better, how do you know what they'd sound like in yours....or mine....Then of course, there comes into the equation mood, season, time of day/ month, Mortgage, kids crying/ laughing..... etc.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
If I ever reach Will's level, I'll be ecstatic. But it doesn't matter, it's
just the fun of working towards it and being able to play something
in a session and impress the relatives
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
What happened to all the old ones we used to have? The Mighty Craic, or something. Right now I have no desire to post any recording of me. I'm not really interested. People can here me any Thursday in the Blythe, for what it's worth. I have nothing to prove. I'm not that bad but not brilliant either. That's all you need to know.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
This is exactly why I don't like the idea of this "prove it" attitude. It doesn't resolve anything, it just leads to more bickering even when the playing is really good. It just provides ammunition for anyone with an ax to grind, and besides, does it really reveal much? How many people were actually surprised at Will's level of playing?
For the record, I'm also uncomfortable with Will's posting of clips by jig and dickens in order to tear them down, though I understand how he got pushed to that point.
This board needs a lot more civility and charity, and a whole lot less ego. It's kind of amazing that one jerk can bring the board to this point (I mean jig of course).
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Has anyone listened to PaulDavis yet,
what I find amazing in his concertina playing[he learned fromPaddyMurphy] is that even pieces that are not traditional ,he use irish ornamentation and makes them have a unique flavour.it is 24 minutes long but towards the end there is two lovely flute slowairs
.http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=3527&Path=PaulDavis.mp3
what lam p*ssed off about, is that I was minding my own business and I got dragged into this by Will,
Putting up one clip and tearing half of it to pieces,why? because I had made one post agreeing with Bobby Gardner.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I hear ya Michael. What to do? I guess we soldier on, fight the good fight. Like Ed says I don't we can insulate ourselves, all we can do is keep on keeping on, for whatever that cliche is worth.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Well Dickens, here is a good opportunity for you to show us or let us hear how you would play. Can you let us hear how dynamic your own playing is, maybe show or let us hear a bit of the oomph you refer to?
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dickens, I'm no expert at all, but I listened to your Paul Davis tracks. I must admit, I nearly gave up because I did find it rather unpalatable ( to my personal taste) but to be fair I persevered and actually enjoyed the slow airs on flute.
I do find this recent turn of events, where people are pressured to provide proof of ability is regrettable, reminiscent of Sir Alan Sugar pointing the finger or the unpleasant Simon Cowall on X Factor, it's more like the cut throat world of commercial pop than nice homely amateurish folk music where the main aim is enjoyment and fun.
Trying to see a positive side though, I think it can be constructive to get feedback from peers, including criticism, and there's probably more discerning ears gathered together on this forum than anywhere else, so I think Ben and Will can be well pleased with all the compliments.
Again, I'm no expert, but, FWIW, I listened to the six tracks several times to see if I could be objective. I'm very envious. I wish I could do that. If I may be forgiven for saying so, the only 'fault' (if it's there) that i could detect, was a slight sense of 'trying', which, when I listen to, say, Joe Ryan or Paddy Canny, is absent. Their playing seems so utterly relaxed and effortless. Perhaps that's an unkind remark, given the recent circumstance ? but I'm just trying to be totally honest. Dow anticipated my own thought, but I'll echo his line, I would happily listen to those six tracks over and over in preference to many commercial recordings I have. Lovely music.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
All this competitive spirit leaves me uneasy, too, Michael. What if it were turned on its head, and people started saying to the weaker players: "OK- you keep saying you're crap, so go on then, prove it". That would definitely have me reaching for my testimonials...
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
What Michael says about ego is true - just another layer of crap to wade through to get to the gems. There is precious little room for it in this music. the tunes are more important than the medium; they'll still be there long after we've all gone to the big outside-toilet in the sky.
Come on this forum, post advice, ask for it, have fun, argue; but try to preserve a little dignity.
You can be self-important if you choose - everyone will still think you're a w****r.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
They've had this over on the Chiff & Fipple Flute forum for a while - the argument that people should post clips of their playing to back up their reputation as givers of advice. It's been quite a heated debate with some choosing to post clips and some pointedly not.
I kinda figured out a while ago that it was best to be very careful when offering advice or criticism.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
When I saw that Will and Ben had posted some clips, I thought, "Great! At least some good has come out of all this unpleasantness."
I was happy to hear some playing from people I have chatted with online. I would love to travel all over the world to hear other sesh.orgers play, but I can't afford it. That's one reason my own embarrassing clips are on YouTube. I would never hold them up as "proof" of anything, unless maybe I needed an alibi in court. They're just up there for a laugh, warts and all, because it's free, so why not.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Heya, I can take this one-upmanship to the next level!
None of you listened as closely, as well, and as insightfully as wolfbird did! He's the winner!
Seriously, that feeling of "trying" is what *I* hear in those three clips I posted. I don't like it at all. But it's inherent in the situation--I sat down in my kitchen to record a few tunes *because I had been asked to prove I can play.* Of course I was trying. Of course it sounds different than I did later last night down at the pub with my mates just kicking out some tunes.
For the record (and what feels like the umpteenth time), the reason I posted links to both jig and dickens' ***publicly uploaded clips*** wasn't to denegrate their playing, but to reveal the discrepancy between their playing and their claims of professionalism and, implied perhaps, higher authority over us amateurs.
Dick, I'll try to explain this one more time, in a sincere attempt to help you understand. I'd like nothing more than for you to fit in here.
I agree with everyone here that it was a low thing to do and I felt so at the time, even as I was just considering doing it. It did not make me happy. I am not "proud" that I resorted to this.
But Jeremy's advice to simply ignore such trolling and uncivil behavior clearly does not--cannot--work. In such a large, diverse community as this board, someone will always take the bait. I sincerely doubt we could organize the sort of universal boycott it would take to have any real effect. And in the meantime, bad advice (including going to third position for a simple high c on fiddle) would continue to rain down on us.
Dick, another reason I included you side by side with jig is your frequent use (intentionally or naively, I really don't know or care) of innuendo to put people down. Good examples of this include your implication that I play Sgt. Early's in the "wrong" key because I lack the technique to shift into upper positions. Never mind that you have nothing to base this observation on, you made it anyway, and your words and tone suggest that if I would just heed the master's and learn proper technique, I'd be a better player, perhaps as good as yourself.
From what I've heard of your playing (including your albums, not just your miles of YouTube footage), I see a large discrepancy between your words and your abilities. That strikes me as dishonest. Which has no place on a civil discussion board.
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with passing along the wisdom of great players like Matt Cranitch and others. But if people want Matt's advice, they can buy his book and get it straight from him, eh?
Finally (whew), Dick, I've never commented on your playing of other types of music, or your singing. Sea shanties and English ballads don't strike me as particularly relevant on a board dedicated to Irish sessions, and I don't see what weight that brings to your posts on threads about Irish fiddling, in particular.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
"None of you listened as closely, as well, and as insightfully as wolfbird did! He's the winner!"
So you're picking on *ME* now !
Seriously, I can't even be sure it's not just my very subjective imagination of the moment, ( which varies with time of day, mood, fatigue, etc.)
But, I thought, is this the best (most liked) fiddling I've heard ? (I can't play fiddle, so I cannot judge technique) So, just as if it was an anonymous track that came on the radio, my inner gauge said ' the guy's 'trying', meaning, 'making an effort' sort of thing...just a trace.
Very hard to lose that when thinking of potential listeners...I guess it's a zen thing in a way. Someone was saying about Dalai Lama, that he's always the same, whether giggling with children in an Indian village or meeting famous world leaders...I think it works best when there's just the music, egoloss, egoless, nobody playing, so to speak. Hard to get.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Yeah, my "effortless" mantra never kicked in fully on those clips. It's always a struggle for me, and a major reason I like playing in sessions so much--just part of the group, among friends, having a tune together. Ego just isn't a part of it then, for me.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Totally. Recording sucks. The music is supposed to be enjoyed in informal, relaxed settings, and after all, what's more informal and relaxed than staring at a microphone?
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Agreed, my best playing is always in sessions with people that inspire me. It does occasionally happen where I'm practicing alone that I find inspiration in my own playing, but it has never happened in front of a microphone.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
A story :
When one goes to Obaku Temple in Kyoto, they see, carved over the gate, the words 'The First Principle'.
The letters are unusually large, and those who appreciate fine calligraphy admire them as a very great masterpiece. They were drawn by Kosen, more than two hundred years ago.
When the master drew them, he did so on paper, from which workmen then made the carving in wood.
The story goes that, as Kosen sketched the letters he was watched by a bold pupil who always criticized his master's work.
"That is not good", the pupil told Kosen after the first effort.
"How is this one ?"
"Poor. Worse than before", pronounced the pupil.
Kosen patiently wrote one sheet after another, until eighty-four First Principles had accumulated, but still without the approval of the pupil.
Then, when the pupil had stepped outside for a few moments, Kosen thought :
"Now is my chance to escape his keen eye",
So he wrote hurriedly, with a mind free from distraction, "The First Principle".
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Well, I wish that we were still back in the good ol' days when we didn't call each other's playing into question. But llig, it had at least a bit of the desired effect.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Bear in mind--I was never calling anyone's playing into question. It was their verbose boasting I was calling into question. I had already surmised what their playing was like, and I think we all would welcome these and many other players of all abilities, as this web site always has.
The musical abilities weren't the rub. The out-of-proportion self-righteousness was.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I have to admit I was one who was urging Will to post his playing. The initial reason was because I thought it would only be fair since he chose to criticize Dick and jig's posted clips. Regardless of whether I agreed with Will's assertions or not, I was uncomfortable with the clips being used in this way and just wanted to level the playing field if that's the way it was going to be.
After all is said and done my discomfort remains regarding uninvited criticism of clips being used in the way Will used them. On the other hand I enjoyed hearing Will play his fiddle, (as well as hearing Ben's playing,) and I think posting what people sound like brings another dimension to the experience of communicating about the music on this website.
There are a lot of other people here who I would be curious to hear, not to criticize their playing, but rather just to get to know them as musicians better. If we all lived close to each other we would know this about each other, so why not do the next best thing in the context of this discussion board?
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Jack, you and several others persuaded me to post the clips of my playing. All in the interest of fair play. And other than the logistical hassle of figuring out how to do it, I has happy enough to comply.
In hindsight, I should've just posted my own playing, period. But all I did initially was post links to jig and dickens' (and one of my own) already public clips. It's not like I "outed" them--they did that themselves.
The rest of it was my reaction to their continued dishonesty and misinformation.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Personally, I think Will has stated pretty clearly on about 3 or 4 different threads why he was calling your playing into question, with regards to your attitude and persona on this website, jig. And if you haven't read all of the threads, Will has taken some grief for his decision to post those links. But he has also explained his reasoning quite well.
The only point in bringing it up again would be to rile up the board, which has thankfully calmed down a bit in the last few days, now that people have dropped their egos a bit, and spent time listening to bits of each other's playing, instead of arguing.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I kind of agree with Ilig's original post, but I also miss the Mighty Craic website. It was nice to put a face and sound to posters, and while I relished hearing the better players, I also valued the less expert playing a lot. In fact, being a beginner myself when I started reading discussions, hearing others of varying experience was quite useful.
Also, as has been pointed out here recently, it's not too difficult, if you spend some time here, to intuit how much weight to give different posters' advice.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I think the difficulties of recording are a side issue. We know that the real skill in playing this music is to be completely relaxed, to not try, and that this is much easier when you are not confronted by machinery that may pickle it and put it up to the world forever. Recording is a different skill, separate from actually being able to play and, obviously, practice helps.
I haven't recorded anything seriously for twenty odd years, but it's important that this is not the reason why I'm refusing to do so now. I'm refusing because I will not be goaded.
However, I'm of the opinion that I may well give it a try. And post something for you on this sound lantern thing. It's the spirit of sharing that is changing my mind. I was thinking that the act of putting something up was somehow connected with personal ego, but now I'm wondering that not doing so is merely being precious. By far the most succinct and insightful posting on this thread so far was the second one.
However, I'll only do it if Jig gets permanently suspended. Three days is not enough.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Michael, I've heard several clips of your playing, and you have absolutley nothing to prove, nothing to be goaded into.
Ultimately, the reason I posted clips was to share some tunes that I love to play. Throwing words and abcs at this music, on this site, for nearly 7 years has had its own frustrations, even in more peaceable times on the board. Putting up a few clips felt good, in the same way as making something to share at a potluck. Nothing fancy, just a little nourishment, comfort food.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Is this still going on?!? Did anybody, besides Dickens and perhaps jig find some fault with Will CPT's playing that would make them skeptical of his advice?
And jig and Dickens...if you find you are a party of two, do you not think it would be both fair and wise to desist? There is a point about herd mentality to be made here. However, you are only hurting your own cause.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
jig has been suspended, TaoCat, so cannot reply to you.
So has benhall. I don't know why, in the latter case. I must have missed something.
Seems to me it's a bit like we're all here to watch a really good movie, and jig's conduct is like having a drunken yob in the seat behind who keeps shouting stupid remarks that they think are funny, spoiling it for everybody.
He's been asked nicely, he's been told, he's had it explained a 100 times, eventually patience ends and if he's incapable of understanding that he offends people, I prefer to see him excluded, so that this site is more pleasant and positive, or should I leave myself ?
As jig said, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I don't like that attitude. I like a warm, relaxed, friendly kitchen where people can have a laugh, gossip, and discuss interesting stuff.
I'm sure that when he returns, he will make some superficially innocent post, which he knows will be contentious. When he receives answers explaining why he's not correct, he'll keep moving the goal posts, building the exasperation until someone snaps and gives him an ad hominem; then he'll claim that he's won the argument, because he's caused uproar, and he'll go back and start from the beginning, to repeat the game, until everyone gets hooked by the contagion. The people who had once attempted to be helpful then get accused of bullying.
I don't think it's got anything to do with genuine discussion or Irish music, or even music, it's just trolling that happens on lots of forums, when one person gets an illicit sense of power by upsetting everybody else. But ultimately, it's up to Jeremy.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Huh? Benhall is one of the best contributors on the discussion board, and generally very polite. If he posted anything out of line I sure missed it. Strange indeed.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
If people could post recordings of themselves playing the tunes that they
submit, that could be valuable. BTW I'm not putting up any recordings
of myself until I can listen to one without cringing.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I will agree with Hup about the posibilities offered by posting your performance of the music here.
I wish that it were possible to write, "Hey, I have this issue with my playing that is driving me batty, here it is, what do you think, team?" Then post a link to the video or sound bit, and then wait in breathless anticipation of the flood of objective positive support and sage advice from more experinced and learned fellows. But I think that might be a problem for many here on both the giving and the receiving end, myself included.
I admit I do not know how I would feel having the Mustard Mobsters jumping ugly on my rather primitive efforts with pipies or fiddle, but perhaps therein lies the "heat" in this kitchen. If I do not have the chips, I do not play.
Just my thoughts.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Actually Rook what I meant was that if you submit a tune to
the Tunes section of this site, then you should have the option
of submitting a recording of yourself _playing_ the tune. Just
as a way of illustrating it. As Llig points out infinitum, the dots
are a rough approximation of how the tune is supposed to go.
I know that's not gonna happen though because jeremy won't
want the hassle of policing these things for piracy or getting sued.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
"I was thinking that the act of putting something up was somehow connected with personal ego, but now I'm wondering that not doing so is merely being precious." (MG)
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Sorry, looked like fun, I just had to give it a whirl.
Speaking of which, I hid some clips from our recent session in my bio. Maybe I should post it under its' own thread: "Sub-Par Session Player - Cowardly Group Recordings"
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Perhaps a bit of both, Rev. I sure do like rockin' the Wayfarers. Must be an 1980's thing. In all honesty, the audience looked that way too. Beautiful, cloudless, Florida February day, high 70s, shorts, lawn chairs, beer coolers and shades all around.
Now that's disturbing about Sibylle saying that, I don't remember anyone losing anything that session. I'd better go email her and tell her to explain herself!
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Rook, a number of people here email me with their sound clips now and then to ask for tips. I enjoy helping out whenever I can, but I'm also always impressed with the caliber of musicians here. Even folks who call themselves beginners are much closer than they realize to playing at a high level--sometimes it's easier for the rest of us to hear that.
I'm sure other members here also happily offer whatever tips and constructive critique they can--it's part of the tradition, eh? Certainly how I was taught--other musicians generously passing along to me what they'd learned from others before them.
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Will
I agree -the calibre of (many of the) musicians here is high - there are some on this site that are 'big names', yet do not barge in 'strutting their stuff'. That is most refreshing.
yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I'm just not happy with it. I know Will kind of painted himself into a corner with it and in the end, didn't really give himself much of a choice. It's just that the reactions are just so predictable. "your playing is pleasant enough, but lacks power"? What a stupid pile of nonsense, he's just playing a few tunes in his kitchen for christ sake.
One of the things I always liked about coming here was that the advice stood on its own. Take it or leave it. It's never been personal, just abstract opinion. When the advice is bad, it's obvious. We argue about it and anyone watching from the sides can make up their own minds. "Prove it" is just another layer of ego that is counterproductive. You knew Will could play because his postings over the years are of the highest order. You knew jig couldn't because his postings are bonkers. But in the end, it shouldn't really matter if you can play or not. It's not about the ego of playing the music yourself, it's about understanding it and loving it. My dad knows more about this music than anyone I know, and he's never played a note in his life. (he's a brilliant whistler though)
If points need to be illustrated with bits of real music, there are plenty of clips of masters available to link to. And when when people post links to rubbish players, you know they are talking rubbish.
Jig complains of bullying, but it was he who started all this playground ego drivel and it's a culture that is now very difficult to get out of. People lose their temper and it's understandable, suffering fools is not easy.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
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Well boo hoo.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Joe CSS
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Aye Michael 'tis the way of the new world I'm afraid and I don't think this community can insulate itself from the effects. That said, I don't think personal attacks are anything new around here really, perhaps the occurrences have escalated in frequency, but they are certainly not a new phenomenon in my opinion.
I agree it sure would be nice to see this type of nonsense disappear from social interaction altogether, but that I'm afraid is a dream that I don't think I'll see come to fruition before my walk ends. I find comfort from this thought by playing music, good. bad, or indifferent, by my own or another's measure. Escapism perhaps, but as I see it when putting my canoe in the river I have a choice as to whether I paddle downstream or up.
All the best!
Peace,
Ed
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by ejsant
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Ok I take your point Llig and if you aren't happy with putting your music on this site then that's fine by me. I don't think you or Will or benhall have anything to prove, I just think it's nice to hear what you can do.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by bowburner
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Will ,started the attack upon me which was unprovoked.and took one clip which was only one aspect of my playing,I use the concertina for many other musics other than ITM,Song accompaniment ,in the past light classical music[this enables me to play in awkward flat keys which requires technique]
sorry Micheal,but that is my genuine opinion,his playing is good, but could be improved if he played with more oomph,I think thats constructive criticism,its either to do with the way he is holding the bow or the lack of wrist action,or the height of his right arm ,if he wanted to improve to become an even better player,analysis is needed.
playing tunes in different keys has a point
Sergeant Earlys dream is originally notated in a minor,this requires going up to a high c,obtained by a finger extension or third position,which requires classical type technique.it sounds brighter in this key.
as regards playing in the kitchen,MattCranitch or KevinBurke,playing in their kitchen,would still sound mighty.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Rufus Jameson
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I just like listenin', me. I take all advice totally seriously anyway. *puppy eyes*
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I don't believe you Dick. There's no 'oomph' cause you're not listening.
To paraphrase Wesley Snipes in that wonderful film...erm...
'White Men can't jump'..
'Look man, you can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because you're listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him. '
How do you know how they'd sound in their kitchen?...Even better, how do you know what they'd sound like in yours....or mine....Then of course, there comes into the equation mood, season, time of day/ month, Mortgage, kids crying/ laughing..... etc.
What a silly thing to say Dick.
Let's move on eh?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Yippee - it's turning into Mudcat . . .
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
If I ever reach Will's level, I'll be ecstatic. But it doesn't matter, it's
just the fun of working towards it and being able to play something
in a session and impress the relatives
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Hup
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Well argued llig,only one point troubles me.Who decides who the rubbish players are? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by dafydd
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Actually, having now done it myself, and although I do agree with Michael in principle, I'm quite interested to know what others sound like ...
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
What happened to all the old ones we used to have? The Mighty Craic, or something. Right now I have no desire to post any recording of me. I'm not really interested. People can here me any Thursday in the Blythe, for what it's worth. I have nothing to prove. I'm not that bad but not brilliant either. That's all you need to know.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
This is exactly why I don't like the idea of this "prove it" attitude. It doesn't resolve anything, it just leads to more bickering even when the playing is really good. It just provides ammunition for anyone with an ax to grind, and besides, does it really reveal much? How many people were actually surprised at Will's level of playing?
For the record, I'm also uncomfortable with Will's posting of clips by jig and dickens in order to tear them down, though I understand how he got pushed to that point.
This board needs a lot more civility and charity, and a whole lot less ego. It's kind of amazing that one jerk can bring the board to this point (I mean jig of course).
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Marklar
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
This small minded macho attitude is the reason why I've stopped going to sessions.Who needs a p*ssing contest?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by dafydd
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Has anyone listened to PaulDavis yet,
what I find amazing in his concertina playing[he learned fromPaddyMurphy] is that even pieces that are not traditional ,he use irish ornamentation and makes them have a unique flavour.it is 24 minutes long but towards the end there is two lovely flute slowairs
.http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=3527&Path=PaulDavis.mp3
what lam p*ssed off about, is that I was minding my own business and I got dragged into this by Will,
Putting up one clip and tearing half of it to pieces,why? because I had made one post agreeing with Bobby Gardner.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Rufus Jameson
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I hear ya Michael. What to do? I guess we soldier on, fight the good fight. Like Ed says I don't we can insulate ourselves, all we can do is keep on keeping on, for whatever that cliche is worth.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Well Dickens, here is a good opportunity for you to show us or let us hear how you would play. Can you let us hear how dynamic your own playing is, maybe show or let us hear a bit of the oomph you refer to?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
This is a silly thread!
One of the nice things about this website was its ability to be serious about ITM and related subjects while maintaining a sense of humor.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by zippydw
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I've heard that Irish music will become an Olympic sport in 2112. Drug test, anyone?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by P-K
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I still like pencils.
Staplers are nice too, don't you think?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Conán McDonnell
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
dickens, I'm no expert at all, but I listened to your Paul Davis tracks. I must admit, I nearly gave up because I did find it rather unpalatable ( to my personal taste) but to be fair I persevered and actually enjoyed the slow airs on flute.
I do find this recent turn of events, where people are pressured to provide proof of ability is regrettable, reminiscent of Sir Alan Sugar pointing the finger or the unpleasant Simon Cowall on X Factor, it's more like the cut throat world of commercial pop than nice homely amateurish folk music where the main aim is enjoyment and fun.
Trying to see a positive side though, I think it can be constructive to get feedback from peers, including criticism, and there's probably more discerning ears gathered together on this forum than anywhere else, so I think Ben and Will can be well pleased with all the compliments.
Again, I'm no expert, but, FWIW, I listened to the six tracks several times to see if I could be objective. I'm very envious. I wish I could do that. If I may be forgiven for saying so, the only 'fault' (if it's there) that i could detect, was a slight sense of 'trying', which, when I listen to, say, Joe Ryan or Paddy Canny, is absent. Their playing seems so utterly relaxed and effortless. Perhaps that's an unkind remark, given the recent circumstance ? but I'm just trying to be totally honest. Dow anticipated my own thought, but I'll echo his line, I would happily listen to those six tracks over and over in preference to many commercial recordings I have. Lovely music.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
All this competitive spirit leaves me uneasy, too, Michael. What if it were turned on its head, and people started saying to the weaker players: "OK- you keep saying you're crap, so go on then, prove it". That would definitely have me reaching for my testimonials...
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by P-K
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
What Michael says about ego is true - just another layer of crap to wade through to get to the gems. There is precious little room for it in this music. the tunes are more important than the medium; they'll still be there long after we've all gone to the big outside-toilet in the sky.
Come on this forum, post advice, ask for it, have fun, argue; but try to preserve a little dignity.
You can be self-important if you choose - everyone will still think you're a w****r.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Conán McDonnell
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Ah, well said Conán. It was here before, it'll be here long after.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
They've had this over on the Chiff & Fipple Flute forum for a while - the argument that people should post clips of their playing to back up their reputation as givers of advice. It's been quite a heated debate with some choosing to post clips and some pointedly not.
I kinda figured out a while ago that it was best to be very careful when offering advice or criticism.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Impressive vehemence over the verve and accuracy with which one does or does not apply fingers and/or breath to wooden and/or metal noisemakers!
And the UN thought it had debaters.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Ah Humility - the thing we demand from the OTHER musicians...
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
When I saw that Will and Ben had posted some clips, I thought, "Great! At least some good has come out of all this unpleasantness."
I was happy to hear some playing from people I have chatted with online. I would love to travel all over the world to hear other sesh.orgers play, but I can't afford it. That's one reason my own embarrassing clips are on YouTube. I would never hold them up as "proof" of anything, unless maybe I needed an alibi in court. They're just up there for a laugh, warts and all, because it's free, so why not.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by mickray
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Oh, and HOLD THE PRESSES! We have a new headline for the latest edition: "Michael Gill Does Not Like It." (Hey, Mikey!)
[insert especially large and silly smiley here]
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by mickray
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
People used to ask me to post examples of playing a humble drum.
Apart from IT difficulties, I haven't a clue, why?
I know what I can do and that is all that matters to me. Other opinions, people are entitled to them, but it does not affect me.
Let's face it, some criticise Martin Hayes, Kevin Burke, Lunny, and a host of others.
And finally, if I prove my brilliance, albeit on a humble drum, those asking for posts would then accuse me of being big headed.
Moi, big headed? The very thought.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Heya, I can take this one-upmanship to the next level!
None of you listened as closely, as well, and as insightfully as wolfbird did! He's the winner!
Seriously, that feeling of "trying" is what *I* hear in those three clips I posted. I don't like it at all. But it's inherent in the situation--I sat down in my kitchen to record a few tunes *because I had been asked to prove I can play.* Of course I was trying. Of course it sounds different than I did later last night down at the pub with my mates just kicking out some tunes.
For the record (and what feels like the umpteenth time), the reason I posted links to both jig and dickens' ***publicly uploaded clips*** wasn't to denegrate their playing, but to reveal the discrepancy between their playing and their claims of professionalism and, implied perhaps, higher authority over us amateurs.
Dick, I'll try to explain this one more time, in a sincere attempt to help you understand. I'd like nothing more than for you to fit in here.
I agree with everyone here that it was a low thing to do and I felt so at the time, even as I was just considering doing it. It did not make me happy. I am not "proud" that I resorted to this.
But Jeremy's advice to simply ignore such trolling and uncivil behavior clearly does not--cannot--work. In such a large, diverse community as this board, someone will always take the bait. I sincerely doubt we could organize the sort of universal boycott it would take to have any real effect. And in the meantime, bad advice (including going to third position for a simple high c on fiddle) would continue to rain down on us.
Dick, another reason I included you side by side with jig is your frequent use (intentionally or naively, I really don't know or care) of innuendo to put people down. Good examples of this include your implication that I play Sgt. Early's in the "wrong" key because I lack the technique to shift into upper positions. Never mind that you have nothing to base this observation on, you made it anyway, and your words and tone suggest that if I would just heed the master's and learn proper technique, I'd be a better player, perhaps as good as yourself.
From what I've heard of your playing (including your albums, not just your miles of YouTube footage), I see a large discrepancy between your words and your abilities. That strikes me as dishonest. Which has no place on a civil discussion board.
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with passing along the wisdom of great players like Matt Cranitch and others. But if people want Matt's advice, they can buy his book and get it straight from him, eh?
Finally (whew), Dick, I've never commented on your playing of other types of music, or your singing. Sea shanties and English ballads don't strike me as particularly relevant on a board dedicated to Irish sessions, and I don't see what weight that brings to your posts on threads about Irish fiddling, in particular.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
"None of you listened as closely, as well, and as insightfully as wolfbird did! He's the winner!"
So you're picking on *ME* now !
Seriously, I can't even be sure it's not just my very subjective imagination of the moment, ( which varies with time of day, mood, fatigue, etc.)
But, I thought, is this the best (most liked) fiddling I've heard ? (I can't play fiddle, so I cannot judge technique) So, just as if it was an anonymous track that came on the radio, my inner gauge said ' the guy's 'trying', meaning, 'making an effort' sort of thing...just a trace.
Very hard to lose that when thinking of potential listeners...I guess it's a zen thing in a way. Someone was saying about Dalai Lama, that he's always the same, whether giggling with children in an Indian village or meeting famous world leaders...I think it works best when there's just the music, egoloss, egoless, nobody playing, so to speak. Hard to get.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Yeah, my "effortless" mantra never kicked in fully on those clips. It's always a struggle for me, and a major reason I like playing in sessions so much--just part of the group, among friends, having a tune together. Ego just isn't a part of it then, for me.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Totally. Recording sucks. The music is supposed to be enjoyed in informal, relaxed settings, and after all, what's more informal and relaxed than staring at a microphone?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Agreed, my best playing is always in sessions with people that inspire me. It does occasionally happen where I'm practicing alone that I find inspiration in my own playing, but it has never happened in front of a microphone.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Reverend
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Give me an audience, I crave attention.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
A story :
When one goes to Obaku Temple in Kyoto, they see, carved over the gate, the words 'The First Principle'.
The letters are unusually large, and those who appreciate fine calligraphy admire them as a very great masterpiece. They were drawn by Kosen, more than two hundred years ago.
When the master drew them, he did so on paper, from which workmen then made the carving in wood.
The story goes that, as Kosen sketched the letters he was watched by a bold pupil who always criticized his master's work.
"That is not good", the pupil told Kosen after the first effort.
"How is this one ?"
"Poor. Worse than before", pronounced the pupil.
Kosen patiently wrote one sheet after another, until eighty-four First Principles had accumulated, but still without the approval of the pupil.
Then, when the pupil had stepped outside for a few moments, Kosen thought :
"Now is my chance to escape his keen eye",
So he wrote hurriedly, with a mind free from distraction, "The First Principle".
The pupil returned, looked, and pronounced :
"A Masterpiece !"
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Well, I wish that we were still back in the good ol' days when we didn't call each other's playing into question. But llig, it had at least a bit of the desired effect.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by TaoCat
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Bear in mind--I was never calling anyone's playing into question. It was their verbose boasting I was calling into question. I had already surmised what their playing was like, and I think we all would welcome these and many other players of all abilities, as this web site always has.
The musical abilities weren't the rub. The out-of-proportion self-righteousness was.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I have to admit I was one who was urging Will to post his playing. The initial reason was because I thought it would only be fair since he chose to criticize Dick and jig's posted clips. Regardless of whether I agreed with Will's assertions or not, I was uncomfortable with the clips being used in this way and just wanted to level the playing field if that's the way it was going to be.
After all is said and done my discomfort remains regarding uninvited criticism of clips being used in the way Will used them. On the other hand I enjoyed hearing Will play his fiddle, (as well as hearing Ben's playing,) and I think posting what people sound like brings another dimension to the experience of communicating about the music on this website.
There are a lot of other people here who I would be curious to hear, not to criticize their playing, but rather just to get to know them as musicians better. If we all lived close to each other we would know this about each other, so why not do the next best thing in the context of this discussion board?
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Jack, you and several others persuaded me to post the clips of my playing. All in the interest of fair play. And other than the logistical hassle of figuring out how to do it, I has happy enough to comply.
In hindsight, I should've just posted my own playing, period. But all I did initially was post links to jig and dickens' (and one of my own) already public clips. It's not like I "outed" them--they did that themselves.
The rest of it was my reaction to their continued dishonesty and misinformation.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Personally, I think Will has stated pretty clearly on about 3 or 4 different threads why he was calling your playing into question, with regards to your attitude and persona on this website, jig. And if you haven't read all of the threads, Will has taken some grief for his decision to post those links. But he has also explained his reasoning quite well.
The only point in bringing it up again would be to rile up the board, which has thankfully calmed down a bit in the last few days, now that people have dropped their egos a bit, and spent time listening to bits of each other's playing, instead of arguing.
# Posted on June 18th 2008 by Reverend
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I kind of agree with Ilig's original post, but I also miss the Mighty Craic website. It was nice to put a face and sound to posters, and while I relished hearing the better players, I also valued the less expert playing a lot. In fact, being a beginner myself when I started reading discussions, hearing others of varying experience was quite useful.
Also, as has been pointed out here recently, it's not too difficult, if you spend some time here, to intuit how much weight to give different posters' advice.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I think the difficulties of recording are a side issue. We know that the real skill in playing this music is to be completely relaxed, to not try, and that this is much easier when you are not confronted by machinery that may pickle it and put it up to the world forever. Recording is a different skill, separate from actually being able to play and, obviously, practice helps.
I haven't recorded anything seriously for twenty odd years, but it's important that this is not the reason why I'm refusing to do so now. I'm refusing because I will not be goaded.
However, I'm of the opinion that I may well give it a try. And post something for you on this sound lantern thing. It's the spirit of sharing that is changing my mind. I was thinking that the act of putting something up was somehow connected with personal ego, but now I'm wondering that not doing so is merely being precious. By far the most succinct and insightful posting on this thread so far was the second one.
However, I'll only do it if Jig gets permanently suspended. Three days is not enough.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Hmm. I decided I'd only post on here again if I could be constructive. I think I'm still within my boundaries.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Michael, I've heard several clips of your playing, and you have absolutley nothing to prove, nothing to be goaded into.
Ultimately, the reason I posted clips was to share some tunes that I love to play. Throwing words and abcs at this music, on this site, for nearly 7 years has had its own frustrations, even in more peaceable times on the board. Putting up a few clips felt good, in the same way as making something to share at a potluck. Nothing fancy, just a little nourishment, comfort food.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Amen to that.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Is this still going on?!? Did anybody, besides Dickens and perhaps jig find some fault with Will CPT's playing that would make them skeptical of his advice?
And jig and Dickens...if you find you are a party of two, do you not think it would be both fair and wise to desist? There is a point about herd mentality to be made here. However, you are only hurting your own cause.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by TaoCat
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Well, I see jig won't be answering for a bit.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by TaoCat
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
jig has been suspended, TaoCat, so cannot reply to you.
So has benhall. I don't know why, in the latter case. I must have missed something.
Seems to me it's a bit like we're all here to watch a really good movie, and jig's conduct is like having a drunken yob in the seat behind who keeps shouting stupid remarks that they think are funny, spoiling it for everybody.
He's been asked nicely, he's been told, he's had it explained a 100 times, eventually patience ends and if he's incapable of understanding that he offends people, I prefer to see him excluded, so that this site is more pleasant and positive, or should I leave myself ?
As jig said, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I don't like that attitude. I like a warm, relaxed, friendly kitchen where people can have a laugh, gossip, and discuss interesting stuff.
I'm sure that when he returns, he will make some superficially innocent post, which he knows will be contentious. When he receives answers explaining why he's not correct, he'll keep moving the goal posts, building the exasperation until someone snaps and gives him an ad hominem; then he'll claim that he's won the argument, because he's caused uproar, and he'll go back and start from the beginning, to repeat the game, until everyone gets hooked by the contagion. The people who had once attempted to be helpful then get accused of bullying.
I don't think it's got anything to do with genuine discussion or Irish music, or even music, it's just trolling that happens on lots of forums, when one person gets an illicit sense of power by upsetting everybody else. But ultimately, it's up to Jeremy.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
That's why I said he wouldn't be back...but benhall1? I missed something indeed.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by TaoCat
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Excuse me, wouldn't be answering for a bit. Not coming back might be too much to hope.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by TaoCat
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
What the hell? What could Ben possibly have done?
Who knew that "civility" could be so mysterious....
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Huh? Benhall is one of the best contributors on the discussion board, and generally very polite. If he posted anything out of line I sure missed it. Strange indeed.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Marklar
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
What!!!??? This is ridiculous - how could benhall be kicked off? Next it'll Will....for goodness sakes!
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by bb
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I think if Ben has to go it's only fair Will should go too...
hee hee...
But seriously... Ben?
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Anyone else ever feel like a lab rat, with a big wary eye in a magnifying glass looking down just over your shoulder?
(hmmm, should I click "post" or erase this? Click or erase? How far have I pushed my luck?)
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Oops! Damn! I hit "post" by accident!
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Jack, you're just jealous because you posted yer own playing in your profile eons ago, and didn't get all the warm fuzzies Ben and I have.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
So true...
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
If people could post recordings of themselves playing the tunes that they
submit, that could be valuable. BTW I'm not putting up any recordings
of myself until I can listen to one without cringing.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Hup
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
If I had waited until I stopped cringing I would still be waiting... maybe I should have waited.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Seriously, some lovely playing here, on both flute and concertina: http://www.thesession.org/members/display/9968
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
All along, I thought cringing was just part of the tradition....
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
CRING!!!
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I wonder if Tommy Peoples cringes?
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Hup
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
I will agree with Hup about the posibilities offered by posting your performance of the music here.
I wish that it were possible to write, "Hey, I have this issue with my playing that is driving me batty, here it is, what do you think, team?" Then post a link to the video or sound bit, and then wait in breathless anticipation of the flood of objective positive support and sage advice from more experinced and learned fellows. But I think that might be a problem for many here on both the giving and the receiving end, myself included.
I admit I do not know how I would feel having the Mustard Mobsters jumping ugly on my rather primitive efforts with pipies or fiddle, but perhaps therein lies the "heat" in this kitchen. If I do not have the chips, I do not play.
Just my thoughts.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Rook
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Actually Rook what I meant was that if you submit a tune to
the Tunes section of this site, then you should have the option
of submitting a recording of yourself _playing_ the tune. Just
as a way of illustrating it. As Llig points out infinitum, the dots
are a rough approximation of how the tune is supposed to go.
I know that's not gonna happen though because jeremy won't
want the hassle of policing these things for piracy or getting sued.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Hup
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
ad infinitum, that is -- not that I actually know any latin ;)
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Hup
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
"I was thinking that the act of putting something up was somehow connected with personal ego, but now I'm wondering that not doing so is merely being precious." (MG)
"Precious" ?
(Precocious?)
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by domnull
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
"Pretentious"?
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
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"presumptuous" ?
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by domnull
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"preposterous"?
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Precious is perfectly good.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Steve Shaw
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Sorry, looked like fun, I just had to give it a whirl.
Speaking of which, I hid some clips from our recent session in my bio. Maybe I should post it under its' own thread: "Sub-Par Session Player - Cowardly Group Recordings"
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
"obstreperous" even.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Nice glasses, SWFL. Were you hungover that day, or just trying to look cool?
Oh, and Sibylle says "There was a violin case, and my recorder case, and they're gone".
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Reverend
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Perhaps a bit of both, Rev. I sure do like rockin' the Wayfarers. Must be an 1980's thing. In all honesty, the audience looked that way too. Beautiful, cloudless, Florida February day, high 70s, shorts, lawn chairs, beer coolers and shades all around.
Now that's disturbing about Sibylle saying that, I don't remember anyone losing anything that session. I'd better go email her and tell her to explain herself!
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Rook, a number of people here email me with their sound clips now and then to ask for tips. I enjoy helping out whenever I can, but I'm also always impressed with the caliber of musicians here. Even folks who call themselves beginners are much closer than they realize to playing at a high level--sometimes it's easier for the rest of us to hear that.
I'm sure other members here also happily offer whatever tips and constructive critique they can--it's part of the tradition, eh? Certainly how I was taught--other musicians generously passing along to me what they'd learned from others before them.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Will
I agree -the calibre of (many of the) musicians here is high - there are some on this site that are 'big names', yet do not barge in 'strutting their stuff'. That is most refreshing.
# Posted on June 19th 2008 by domnull
Re: yeah? YEAH? Well ... go on then GO ON THEN ... PROVE IT
Ben has apparently been released early from his “gardening leave”.
# Posted on June 20th 2008 by lazyhound