Hello,
I'm in Dublin for the summer and would like to know if there are pubs where one can go to play trad. music. I play Irish fiddle and would love a chance to play along with others.
Thanks,
Helen
the main pubs are the cobblestone in smithfield, where there is music every night of the week. and then there is hughes's pub down by the four courts where there's music in the back from thursday to sunday night. if you go to any of these though be sure to ask permission to join though because all of the sessions have one or two paid regulars so be sure to ask them especially. i wouldnt' describe the sessions as open to everyone because they all have their regular musicians, but if you do ask you'll more than likely be allowed join so feel free!
there's pubs in templebar aswell, only a couple, that would have music aswell but i wouldn't normally go in so i couldn't tell you which.
O'Donoghue's is nice if you go on the right night, I usually lead the weds night session, but since it is summer I have gone home and won't be in Dublin again until September. A session there is usually much more open than one at the Cobblestone (never been to Hughes' so I can't comment) which is sometimes all players in their mid-20s playing tunes you've never heard way too fast in weird keys, of course I went there one time and the craic was great, but it was never the same after that one night (I think that was a Saturday). Of course the majority of sessions in Dublin consist of a bunch of people trying to show off which is why I usually stick to O'Donoghues because it is about the craic not about excluding other players by purposely playing odd tunes and not about the pay. There are tons of sessions in Dublin you just have to find the right one.
i think your comments were a bit unfair unseen122. 'of course the majority of sessions in dublin consist of people trying to show off'.
that is totally untrue. you said you wer never in hughes', and you wer in the cobblestone once! come on now! they are the two main music pubs in dublin so how can you judge a place after one night! there is music there everynight of the week and during the day! and the musicians are mainly not in their twenties, there are more established musicians like neillidh mulligan, paul o'sh, edel mcweeney, cath mcevoy, the list goes on! i can't speak for the session on the day you went but i can say that the music is certainly better than you make it out to be! i would be in my mid twenties and ive had great sessions in the cobble and hughes' that do not certainly play the stuff you wer talking about and people certainly dont try to show off. and if people are messin about like that it is usually in good spirits and part of the craic. you get that everywhere not just dublin! in fact its probably the least of the counties like that! i play sometimes with liam o'c, conor mac, sean mck, john blake, etc. and they just play for the love of playing and of course the craic is great. any messing is just banter!
people dont always play odd tunes, ive been to sessions apart from my regular where i wouldn't know some tunes but its like that with all sessions. you can;'t really expect everyone to play the same stuff, again i cant speak for the session you went to but you know yourself! and people dont purposely play 'weird' tunes as you call them to exclude people! some may but ive never come across it in dublin. and sometimes its IS about the pay because as i said in my other comment there are regularly paid people, one or two, that keep the sessions going and if they are being paid they have a responsibility to the owners of the pubs. people are paid to play in pubs all over the country. im sure that you have been paid to do that at some time in your life. thats not to say that we dont love the music because we do, but its unfair to (as i see it) attack the people that are paid.
i think sometimes there is a misconception about keeping sessions small. you know the saying 'too many cooks spoil the broth', well i think that applies to many sessions. i was at the willie clancy week, and it was in the bellbridge hotel. a group me and 5 of my friends wanted to play in the bar in the corner there, that was fine with the manager. but after around an hour people started to join in, without asking, people we dont know. we just wanted to have a session amongst ourselves because were friends and we know we enjoy playing in sessions together. but more and more people kept joining in and we know we couldn't say anything because it would come across as rude and people would throw a fit. but the long and short of it is the session went downhill after that because there was so many people. we said to some peopl that wanted to join at the start that thye couldn't because they would be blocking the doorway and manager told us it was to stay small, but more and more people just joined anway. its hard enough to get a decent session at the willie week without one you know you would enjoy go to hell! lol! it was not about being arrogant, it was about wanting to have a nice quiet session with just friends because we are all comfortable with each others playing!
anyway thats kind of off the subject, but i think your description of sessions in dublin is unfounded and lacks research so to speak. i dunno what the culturlann or any of those cce based sessions are like (i hate comhaltas personally) but i can certainly vouch for the majority of good sessions and musicians ive played with.
I agree trad music, neillidh mulligan is one of the nicest and most welcoming trad musicians Ive ever met. I used to play at Hughes all the time and they were just as welcoming.
I find that comments like this -
"because it is about the craic not about excluding other players by purposely playing odd tunes " are unfounded, unhelpful and just plain silly.
I mean really -just because people dont play every tune *you* know, they are suddenly snobs. What tha?
I like obscure lots of obscure tunes, thats just me - but the only people who tend to have a problem with me and my friends playing obscure tunes are the lazy buggers who couldnt be bothered to learn any new tunes because they are too busy playing Droswsy maggie and talking about how 'open' their sessions are and going on about how closed and snobby we are. Which is a load of crap.
tradmoosic, I have been to the Cobblestone a bunch of times and I said that only one time I was there and the session wasn't a bunch of people trying to show off not that I have been there once. I was probably there on the wrong night, but I have heard a couple of other people complain about the same thing. I have nothing against obscure tunes, but I do have a problem when people only play obscure tunes there needs to be some sort of balance. Oh and bb, there is a big difference between playing tunes one enjoys to play and playing tunes that nobody knows. Is it too much to ask to play a relatively common tune to accommodate an unfamiliar face?
That is my own experience in Dublin that most of the sessions I have been to were a bunch of hot shots trying to show off. You can't tell me that I haven't experienced it, because I have seen it countless times.
Maybe I was just at the wrong places on the wrong nights but that is what I have seen. Ok, maybe my comments are a bit harsh, but my point was that you have to know when and where to go. Because there are plenty of people in Dublin who are playing just for the pay or to show off (especially in Temple Bar). Yet there are probably just as many that are playing for the craic and I just haven't met a lot of them. Also, it is hardly ever the well-known players being snobby the "famous" people I have met and played with have been the some of the nicest people I have played with.
You went to the Belbridge to have a quiet session? Might as well go to Temple Bar for a quiet pint on a Saturday night.
The night I was in the Belbridge there was a session in the hut which serves as the outside smoking room, two other sessions outside, and six sessions inside, a grand total of nine sessions. It was impossible to move, let alone find a "Greta Garbo" moment.
And I like Drowsy Maggie, but I respect and honour your opinion Cruella.
spot on tradmoosic (but a can of worms too). It's a bit insane to expect that just because you play the same kind of 'music' you'll automatically get on musically. You've gotta find the right people. I speak english and hate most people I meet who speak it, well, that's a bit harsh but the gist is there ... when I learnt french I was dead p*ssed off to find out I didn't think much of a lot of the people who spoke french. I thought they'd all be existentialists hahaha.
I think people walk into irish music expecting a ready-made music scene that's open to all because 'that's what folk music is'. I could go on, but the beer dictates that I don't.
Weellll - this is the thing unseen. People in a session are not there to hold your hand. If they dont know you, then they probably dont know what tunes you do and dont play. If a new person comes into a session here, we all say hi, introduce ourselves etc. But none of us go out of our way trying to think up tunes that we think the person might know. I play tunes I like and that's it, alot may seem obscure to other people, but if you are a regular a said session then they are just normal. And after awhile we'll say 'hi there, have you a tune'? And get the new person to start something and we'll all play along.
What you are describing sounds like any session that has been going for a long time, there are a bunch of musicians who have played together years and years and are probably all good friends, enter the new person who feels out of place and left out. Which is only natural because you aren't a part of *their* group. I have only once seen a session actively decide to play obscure tunes in weird keys to purposely try and get rid of some musicians. Once in I cant tell you how many thousands of sessions Ive been to all over the world, it feels like millions. I really dont believe it happens that often. But I can see how some people might *perceive* it to be the case, take the regular session I attend, three of my best friends are there plus my husband...so a new person is never just going to slot right in to the banter etc.
"Oh and bb, there is a big difference between playing tunes one enjoys to play and playing tunes that nobody knows." - they would not be tunes nobody knows if everyone put a little effort in a learnt them, I always bring new tunes to the session and will play them over and over for years if thats what it takes until everyone finally learns them (by which stage Im sick of them) but then guess what! They are not obscure or uncommon anymore - in fact they are just normal tunes that everyone knows, common tunes even.
As the hot-shots trying to show off....hmmmm. Ive met a couple of people like that in my time - but never entire pubs full of them all in one city. It sounds to me that you may be a little insecure in your own playing. And dont get me wrong - Ive no idea at all how you sound, you may be amazing - but I know lots of really great players who feel crap about their playing. And then tend to mouth off about this snob or this show off....
i know i know, but it was during the day. i was there at night when it crazy but didnt play, just had the craic ye know. but anyway...thats just an example of people crowding into a session. lol.
on the other argument, i think you've got it spot on bb. and i never said you didnt experience it unseen. i said i cant vouch for the session or sessions you went to. but i know somebody new to a session mite mistake banter between a couple of mates for something else, that is not to say that there is no show offs of course there are some. but you make it sound like that that is the majority of the dublin seen when you say ' of course the MAJORITY of sessions...'. that is certainly not the case and reflects badly on the musicians in dublin that are genuine and pushing their own agenda.
anyway you are right, this is getting a little off the topic! lol! we'll say no more!
"But none of us go out of our way trying to think up tunes that we think the person might know".
Probably that's the telling aspect of it all. How far? Not at all? A little? A lot? Is this social or musical or artistic .. or what? It's one reason why I like it.
The only time I went to The Cobblestone I lurked around the edges for a little while and was eventually invited to sit in. Feigning reluctance stood me in good stead! I knew a few tunes they happened to be playing but not too many. They asked me to start a set which I did. I was very happy to get a bit of a chance on that one occasion when I was a complete unknown to everyone there, and a harmonica player at that. There was not a hint of anyone showing off at all. A lovely lady who was playing the fiddle (she occasionally corresponds with me - I won't name her!) got me to go to her session the next night in a pub in the north of the city and I had a wonderful evening in first-rate musical company. I went to Dublin expecting very little and was delighted with what I got out of it. I have much to thank flanum for, who was my catalyst as well as an excellent guide to Dublin! I have a feeling that it wouldn't have been quite the same had I swanned in asserting myself to all and sundry.
Exactly Steve, if you ram into a session going "hey everyone, I'm here -please play tunes I know" Then they are going to treat you like a loopy person. If you walk in, with a bit of cop on, usually people will accept you. Doesnt mean you'll be best friends mind. But you cant be friends with everyone.
unseen,
based on your comments and your level of playing (as heard on clips you posted) I suspect you won't fit into most sessions of advanced nature. What you call obscure and "show off" may just be people playing beyond your skill level.
That is ok, but there is no need to knock these people. I also don't understand how you can make generalizations about the Dublin session scene if you haven't really participated much or haven't even been to Hughes just across the river.
If I were you i'd focus more on playing in tune and in time and getting your skill level up...
HC, where did we meet? I don't play anywhere on Saturdays so I don't know what you are talking about. Oh, my online persona doesn't match me because everybody takes what I say way too seriously and most of the time Im just feckin around.
Blackwood, any clips you have heard of me are terribly outdated (the ones on on C&F right?) I am a much better player now than when I recorded those. That was before I even started school in Dublin and befre I ever took a lesson on the Flute.
Hard to imagine this fellow leading *any* sessions in Dublin, isn't it?
Unseen122, I think the best advice would be for you to focus on intonation and accuracy. Frankly, this is one of the worst attempts at trad music I've ever heard, which in and of itself is fine, but as others have said, the skill level doesn't quite match the advertised level of expertise. If you're not a good player, fine. No one faults you for that. But you might want to keep the self aggrandizement to a minimum.
Notice that clip was recorded over two years ago, and welcome to thesession.org I notice you came on this site specifically to comment on me and my playing ability of a long time ago. And who are you to comment on me, I wonder what kind of a player you are? Atleast I had the balls to post a clip online. By posting that clip you are just beating a dead horse one that was killed and buried years ago. That does not represent my current level of playing. Also, I had to audition to get into DIT you think they would have let me in if I still played like that?
I do lead the weds night session at O'Donoghue's and get paid to do so, but I am home for the summer so a friend of my has taken it over. Any of you nay sayers are welcome to see for yourself come September. Then you have the right to talk sh*t about me on here. But you guys don't even know me (except for hugo apparently) so what does that say about the type of people you guys are?
You guys take this forum way too seriously it is just the fecking internet who cares? Its like you have nothing better to do than look down your noses at people you haven't met and probably never will. Just because some seems like a know it all on the internet doesn't mean they are insulting you personally. Is it really worth getting all worked up over?
I wasnt insulting you personally. I was just saying that you make geralised statements that are untrue and you come across as insecure. I havent said a word about your playing.
"And who are you to comment on me, I wonder what kind of a player you are?" - Hmmmm -wasnt it you who lauched a scathing attack on Martin just the other day. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
bb, I never said you were insulting me and the comment I made was a generalization I will admit to that, but it was based on my own personal experience. It is not only the playing that it is exclusive, but the way that new people are treated at said sessions. The other players barely even look at you, they may introduce themselves but they don't talk to you after that they act like you aren't even there half the time.
Did I launch a scathing attack on Martin? No, I simply said I don't like his style and that he gets on my nerves. I never said he was a bad player or a bad person. Is he a better musician than myself? Yes, but that doesn't mean I have to like his music.
dont think for one moment I dont know what you are talking about, i have experienced exactly that and in Dublin too. But the fact was - I wasn't up to scratch....and I shouldn't have been trying to get into those sessions at that point in time ( I was a real beginner and couldn't even play in tune). I realise that now, and have a policy - I'll only go into a session if I feel that I am not going to be detrimental to it in any way.
The only reason I brought up the Martin thing is because you were getting upset when people criticised your playing....I was only pointing out that as you seem not to be in the slightest bit embarrassed by criticising other people then you really shouldn't be getting upset when it is done to you.
I had a listen to your sound clip, you sound like a beginner - not good or bad, just like someone who hasn't been playing that long. And obviously we have all sounded that way at some point. But on this website you come across as someone who knows it all, that is what people here are objecting to - your attitude about sessions, other players etc.
What I was trying to point out in the begining is that that snobbery etc is not in any way limited to Dublin - I felt the full brunt of snobbery in your own home country - which is laughable as the session wasnt even that good in the first place. I'm pretty sure I could guess at least 5 of the musicians you are talking about in Dublin. But it happens everywhere.
I am going to repeat myself, that clip was recorded a long time ago (over two years) when I posted that clip I was criticized I don't need to hear it all again I have taken what people said and applied it to my playing. Plus, I have improved a lot in that time especailly after spending the last year in Dublin and taking lessons with some very good teachers. The point is that clip is not how I sound now.
I dropped into The Cobblestone one night when I was passing through Dublin on the way to The West. Not knowing who was playing there that night, I took my mandolin along, in part to avoid leaving it unattended in my hostel room. I was delighted when I arrived to see Catherine McEvoy and family in the musicians' corner, and sat on the margins to listen. I was enjoying listening the music so much, I almost forgot I had an instrument with me. When I finally got up to leave, Catherine spotted the mandolin and said, in a shocked tone, "Well, would you look at that? He'd an instrument with him all along and he never even took it out of its case!," then turned to me and said, "You're very bold!".
That was one experience of The Cobblestone. I've also been there and found the session very much of a 'closed' nature - I wouldn't have called it 'showing off', just a bunch of musicians who want to play with *each other* and not anyone else. Fair enough - it's their session. Although, as a listener, I didn't enjoy it as much as I did Catherine McEvoy's session.
This all sounds pretty scary. I've only been playing three years. Would it be presumptuous of me to think I can play along? Are there any places where people welcome intermediate players?
-Helen
Helen just give it a go. What have you got to lose? Drop in to the places mentioned. Ask can you join in? Sit down and play. If you don't know the tunes, listen. Have a set of tunes ready in case you're asked to start a few. I'm a musician from dublin who's played in all these places and I find that you'll meet some friendly and some not as friendly musicians. But that goes for all over.
On the discussion about Unseen's playing. I can vouch for what he says. He really has improved since that recording. I've had several nice tunes in O'Donoghue's with him and others.
Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Hello,
I'm in Dublin for the summer and would like to know if there are pubs where one can go to play trad. music. I play Irish fiddle and would love a chance to play along with others.
Thanks,
Helen
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by helendy
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
the main pubs are the cobblestone in smithfield, where there is music every night of the week. and then there is hughes's pub down by the four courts where there's music in the back from thursday to sunday night. if you go to any of these though be sure to ask permission to join though because all of the sessions have one or two paid regulars so be sure to ask them especially. i wouldnt' describe the sessions as open to everyone because they all have their regular musicians, but if you do ask you'll more than likely be allowed join so feel free!
there's pubs in templebar aswell, only a couple, that would have music aswell but i wouldn't normally go in so i couldn't tell you which.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
o'donahues by merrian square is a good one as well, but not sure of the culture as I never played in.
my experience with temple bar was that they're more performance than session, especially gogerty's
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by a sheamuis
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
O'Donoghue's is nice if you go on the right night, I usually lead the weds night session, but since it is summer I have gone home and won't be in Dublin again until September. A session there is usually much more open than one at the Cobblestone (never been to Hughes' so I can't comment) which is sometimes all players in their mid-20s playing tunes you've never heard way too fast in weird keys, of course I went there one time and the craic was great, but it was never the same after that one night (I think that was a Saturday). Of course the majority of sessions in Dublin consist of a bunch of people trying to show off which is why I usually stick to O'Donoghues because it is about the craic not about excluding other players by purposely playing odd tunes and not about the pay. There are tons of sessions in Dublin you just have to find the right one.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Unseen122
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
i think your comments were a bit unfair unseen122. 'of course the majority of sessions in dublin consist of people trying to show off'.
that is totally untrue. you said you wer never in hughes', and you wer in the cobblestone once! come on now! they are the two main music pubs in dublin so how can you judge a place after one night! there is music there everynight of the week and during the day! and the musicians are mainly not in their twenties, there are more established musicians like neillidh mulligan, paul o'sh, edel mcweeney, cath mcevoy, the list goes on! i can't speak for the session on the day you went but i can say that the music is certainly better than you make it out to be! i would be in my mid twenties and ive had great sessions in the cobble and hughes' that do not certainly play the stuff you wer talking about and people certainly dont try to show off. and if people are messin about like that it is usually in good spirits and part of the craic. you get that everywhere not just dublin! in fact its probably the least of the counties like that! i play sometimes with liam o'c, conor mac, sean mck, john blake, etc. and they just play for the love of playing and of course the craic is great. any messing is just banter!
people dont always play odd tunes, ive been to sessions apart from my regular where i wouldn't know some tunes but its like that with all sessions. you can;'t really expect everyone to play the same stuff, again i cant speak for the session you went to but you know yourself! and people dont purposely play 'weird' tunes as you call them to exclude people! some may but ive never come across it in dublin. and sometimes its IS about the pay because as i said in my other comment there are regularly paid people, one or two, that keep the sessions going and if they are being paid they have a responsibility to the owners of the pubs. people are paid to play in pubs all over the country. im sure that you have been paid to do that at some time in your life. thats not to say that we dont love the music because we do, but its unfair to (as i see it) attack the people that are paid.
i think sometimes there is a misconception about keeping sessions small. you know the saying 'too many cooks spoil the broth', well i think that applies to many sessions. i was at the willie clancy week, and it was in the bellbridge hotel. a group me and 5 of my friends wanted to play in the bar in the corner there, that was fine with the manager. but after around an hour people started to join in, without asking, people we dont know. we just wanted to have a session amongst ourselves because were friends and we know we enjoy playing in sessions together. but more and more people kept joining in and we know we couldn't say anything because it would come across as rude and people would throw a fit. but the long and short of it is the session went downhill after that because there was so many people. we said to some peopl that wanted to join at the start that thye couldn't because they would be blocking the doorway and manager told us it was to stay small, but more and more people just joined anway. its hard enough to get a decent session at the willie week without one you know you would enjoy go to hell! lol! it was not about being arrogant, it was about wanting to have a nice quiet session with just friends because we are all comfortable with each others playing!
anyway thats kind of off the subject, but i think your description of sessions in dublin is unfounded and lacks research so to speak. i dunno what the culturlann or any of those cce based sessions are like (i hate comhaltas personally) but i can certainly vouch for the majority of good sessions and musicians ive played with.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
I agree trad music, neillidh mulligan is one of the nicest and most welcoming trad musicians Ive ever met. I used to play at Hughes all the time and they were just as welcoming.
I find that comments like this -
"because it is about the craic not about excluding other players by purposely playing odd tunes " are unfounded, unhelpful and just plain silly.
I mean really -just because people dont play every tune *you* know, they are suddenly snobs. What tha?
I like obscure lots of obscure tunes, thats just me - but the only people who tend to have a problem with me and my friends playing obscure tunes are the lazy buggers who couldnt be bothered to learn any new tunes because they are too busy playing Droswsy maggie and talking about how 'open' their sessions are and going on about how closed and snobby we are. Which is a load of crap.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
tradmoosic, I have been to the Cobblestone a bunch of times and I said that only one time I was there and the session wasn't a bunch of people trying to show off not that I have been there once. I was probably there on the wrong night, but I have heard a couple of other people complain about the same thing. I have nothing against obscure tunes, but I do have a problem when people only play obscure tunes there needs to be some sort of balance. Oh and bb, there is a big difference between playing tunes one enjoys to play and playing tunes that nobody knows. Is it too much to ask to play a relatively common tune to accommodate an unfamiliar face?
That is my own experience in Dublin that most of the sessions I have been to were a bunch of hot shots trying to show off. You can't tell me that I haven't experienced it, because I have seen it countless times.
Maybe I was just at the wrong places on the wrong nights but that is what I have seen. Ok, maybe my comments are a bit harsh, but my point was that you have to know when and where to go. Because there are plenty of people in Dublin who are playing just for the pay or to show off (especially in Temple Bar). Yet there are probably just as many that are playing for the craic and I just haven't met a lot of them. Also, it is hardly ever the well-known players being snobby the "famous" people I have met and played with have been the some of the nicest people I have played with.
This is getting to be a bit off topic.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Unseen122
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Dear Tradmoosic,
You went to the Belbridge to have a quiet session? Might as well go to Temple Bar for a quiet pint on a Saturday night.
The night I was in the Belbridge there was a session in the hut which serves as the outside smoking room, two other sessions outside, and six sessions inside, a grand total of nine sessions. It was impossible to move, let alone find a "Greta Garbo" moment.
And I like Drowsy Maggie, but I respect and honour your opinion Cruella.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
spot on tradmoosic (but a can of worms too). It's a bit insane to expect that just because you play the same kind of 'music' you'll automatically get on musically. You've gotta find the right people. I speak english and hate most people I meet who speak it, well, that's a bit harsh but the gist is there ... when I learnt french I was dead p*ssed off to find out I didn't think much of a lot of the people who spoke french. I thought they'd all be existentialists hahaha.
I think people walk into irish music expecting a ready-made music scene that's open to all because 'that's what folk music is'. I could go on, but the beer dictates that I don't.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by pavlf
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Weellll - this is the thing unseen. People in a session are not there to hold your hand. If they dont know you, then they probably dont know what tunes you do and dont play. If a new person comes into a session here, we all say hi, introduce ourselves etc. But none of us go out of our way trying to think up tunes that we think the person might know. I play tunes I like and that's it, alot may seem obscure to other people, but if you are a regular a said session then they are just normal. And after awhile we'll say 'hi there, have you a tune'? And get the new person to start something and we'll all play along.
What you are describing sounds like any session that has been going for a long time, there are a bunch of musicians who have played together years and years and are probably all good friends, enter the new person who feels out of place and left out. Which is only natural because you aren't a part of *their* group. I have only once seen a session actively decide to play obscure tunes in weird keys to purposely try and get rid of some musicians. Once in I cant tell you how many thousands of sessions Ive been to all over the world, it feels like millions. I really dont believe it happens that often. But I can see how some people might *perceive* it to be the case, take the regular session I attend, three of my best friends are there plus my husband...so a new person is never just going to slot right in to the banter etc.
"Oh and bb, there is a big difference between playing tunes one enjoys to play and playing tunes that nobody knows." - they would not be tunes nobody knows if everyone put a little effort in a learnt them, I always bring new tunes to the session and will play them over and over for years if thats what it takes until everyone finally learns them (by which stage Im sick of them) but then guess what! They are not obscure or uncommon anymore - in fact they are just normal tunes that everyone knows, common tunes even.
As the hot-shots trying to show off....hmmmm. Ive met a couple of people like that in my time - but never entire pubs full of them all in one city. It sounds to me that you may be a little insecure in your own playing. And dont get me wrong - Ive no idea at all how you sound, you may be amazing - but I know lots of really great players who feel crap about their playing. And then tend to mouth off about this snob or this show off....
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Tradmoosic,
You expected a quiet session in the Bellbridge with just a few friends during the Willie Clancy Festival?
Hahahahahahahah!!!!!
Sorry, but really, that's not the sort of thing that warrants being annoyed about as it is inevitable during the week that it will be chaos.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
i know i know, but it was during the day. i was there at night when it crazy but didnt play, just had the craic ye know. but anyway...thats just an example of people crowding into a session. lol.
on the other argument, i think you've got it spot on bb. and i never said you didnt experience it unseen. i said i cant vouch for the session or sessions you went to. but i know somebody new to a session mite mistake banter between a couple of mates for something else, that is not to say that there is no show offs of course there are some. but you make it sound like that that is the majority of the dublin seen when you say ' of course the MAJORITY of sessions...'. that is certainly not the case and reflects badly on the musicians in dublin that are genuine and pushing their own agenda.
anyway you are right, this is getting a little off the topic! lol! we'll say no more!
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
that would be the dublin *scene*.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
"But none of us go out of our way trying to think up tunes that we think the person might know".
Probably that's the telling aspect of it all. How far? Not at all? A little? A lot? Is this social or musical or artistic .. or what? It's one reason why I like it.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by pavlf
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
The only time I went to The Cobblestone I lurked around the edges for a little while and was eventually invited to sit in. Feigning reluctance stood me in good stead! I knew a few tunes they happened to be playing but not too many. They asked me to start a set which I did. I was very happy to get a bit of a chance on that one occasion when I was a complete unknown to everyone there, and a harmonica player at that. There was not a hint of anyone showing off at all. A lovely lady who was playing the fiddle (she occasionally corresponds with me - I won't name her!) got me to go to her session the next night in a pub in the north of the city and I had a wonderful evening in first-rate musical company. I went to Dublin expecting very little and was delighted with what I got out of it. I have much to thank flanum for, who was my catalyst as well as an excellent guide to Dublin! I have a feeling that it wouldn't have been quite the same had I swanned in asserting myself to all and sundry.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Exactly Steve, if you ram into a session going "hey everyone, I'm here -please play tunes I know" Then they are going to treat you like a loopy person. If you walk in, with a bit of cop on, usually people will accept you. Doesnt mean you'll be best friends mind. But you cant be friends with everyone.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Oh wait a second - I've met you.
I know the people you play with on Saturday.
Hmmm - your online persona doesn't fit you.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
unseen,
based on your comments and your level of playing (as heard on clips you posted) I suspect you won't fit into most sessions of advanced nature. What you call obscure and "show off" may just be people playing beyond your skill level.
That is ok, but there is no need to knock these people. I also don't understand how you can make generalizations about the Dublin session scene if you haven't really participated much or haven't even been to Hughes just across the river.
If I were you i'd focus more on playing in tune and in time and getting your skill level up...
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Blackwood
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
HC, where did we meet? I don't play anywhere on Saturdays so I don't know what you are talking about. Oh, my online persona doesn't match me because everybody takes what I say way too seriously and most of the time Im just feckin around.
Blackwood, any clips you have heard of me are terribly outdated (the ones on on C&F right?) I am a much better player now than when I recorded those. That was before I even started school in Dublin and befre I ever took a lesson on the Flute.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Unseen122
I'm holding my breath...
Unseen 122 said: "New clips coming soon, old ones did not represent my current level of playing."
I think it's the know-it-all attitude behind this - and the assumption of "session leadership quality" -- that p*ssed some people off:
"O'Donoghue's is nice if you go on the right night, I usually lead the weds night session..."
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by cocus
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Leave the poor lad alone. Bullies.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Piggybacking off of Blackwood and Cocus's comments: perhaps of bit of perspective is in order.
Let's have a listen to Unseen122, shall we?
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/Audio/03-06/01Greigg_sPipes_CallanBridgeAveryL.mp3
Hard to imagine this fellow leading *any* sessions in Dublin, isn't it?
Unseen122, I think the best advice would be for you to focus on intonation and accuracy. Frankly, this is one of the worst attempts at trad music I've ever heard, which in and of itself is fine, but as others have said, the skill level doesn't quite match the advertised level of expertise. If you're not a good player, fine. No one faults you for that. But you might want to keep the self aggrandizement to a minimum.
My $.02.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by captainverdl
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
A lot better on the flute than me.
And I believe he did say that this was an early attempt, possibly to gain confidence, because you need cojones to play in public.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Notice that clip was recorded over two years ago, and welcome to thesession.org I notice you came on this site specifically to comment on me and my playing ability of a long time ago. And who are you to comment on me, I wonder what kind of a player you are? Atleast I had the balls to post a clip online. By posting that clip you are just beating a dead horse one that was killed and buried years ago. That does not represent my current level of playing. Also, I had to audition to get into DIT you think they would have let me in if I still played like that?
I do lead the weds night session at O'Donoghue's and get paid to do so, but I am home for the summer so a friend of my has taken it over. Any of you nay sayers are welcome to see for yourself come September. Then you have the right to talk sh*t about me on here. But you guys don't even know me (except for hugo apparently) so what does that say about the type of people you guys are?
You guys take this forum way too seriously it is just the fecking internet who cares? Its like you have nothing better to do than look down your noses at people you haven't met and probably never will. Just because some seems like a know it all on the internet doesn't mean they are insulting you personally. Is it really worth getting all worked up over?
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Unseen122
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
I wasnt insulting you personally. I was just saying that you make geralised statements that are untrue and you come across as insecure. I havent said a word about your playing.
"And who are you to comment on me, I wonder what kind of a player you are?" - Hmmmm -wasnt it you who lauched a scathing attack on Martin just the other day. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
bb, I never said you were insulting me and the comment I made was a generalization I will admit to that, but it was based on my own personal experience. It is not only the playing that it is exclusive, but the way that new people are treated at said sessions. The other players barely even look at you, they may introduce themselves but they don't talk to you after that they act like you aren't even there half the time.
Did I launch a scathing attack on Martin? No, I simply said I don't like his style and that he gets on my nerves. I never said he was a bad player or a bad person. Is he a better musician than myself? Yes, but that doesn't mean I have to like his music.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Unseen122
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
dont think for one moment I dont know what you are talking about, i have experienced exactly that and in Dublin too. But the fact was - I wasn't up to scratch....and I shouldn't have been trying to get into those sessions at that point in time ( I was a real beginner and couldn't even play in tune). I realise that now, and have a policy - I'll only go into a session if I feel that I am not going to be detrimental to it in any way.
The only reason I brought up the Martin thing is because you were getting upset when people criticised your playing....I was only pointing out that as you seem not to be in the slightest bit embarrassed by criticising other people then you really shouldn't be getting upset when it is done to you.
I had a listen to your sound clip, you sound like a beginner - not good or bad, just like someone who hasn't been playing that long. And obviously we have all sounded that way at some point. But on this website you come across as someone who knows it all, that is what people here are objecting to - your attitude about sessions, other players etc.
In fact - you come across as a 19 year old.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
What I was trying to point out in the begining is that that snobbery etc is not in any way limited to Dublin - I felt the full brunt of snobbery in your own home country - which is laughable as the session wasnt even that good in the first place. I'm pretty sure I could guess at least 5 of the musicians you are talking about in Dublin. But it happens everywhere.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
I am going to repeat myself, that clip was recorded a long time ago (over two years) when I posted that clip I was criticized I don't need to hear it all again I have taken what people said and applied it to my playing. Plus, I have improved a lot in that time especailly after spending the last year in Dublin and taking lessons with some very good teachers. The point is that clip is not how I sound now.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by Unseen122
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Understood. But really - 2 years in trad is *nothing* it is seriously no amount of time at all. I have no doubt that in 10 years you will sound great.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by bb
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
I dropped into The Cobblestone one night when I was passing through Dublin on the way to The West. Not knowing who was playing there that night, I took my mandolin along, in part to avoid leaving it unattended in my hostel room. I was delighted when I arrived to see Catherine McEvoy and family in the musicians' corner, and sat on the margins to listen. I was enjoying listening the music so much, I almost forgot I had an instrument with me. When I finally got up to leave, Catherine spotted the mandolin and said, in a shocked tone, "Well, would you look at that? He'd an instrument with him all along and he never even took it out of its case!," then turned to me and said, "You're very bold!".
That was one experience of The Cobblestone. I've also been there and found the session very much of a 'closed' nature - I wouldn't have called it 'showing off', just a bunch of musicians who want to play with *each other* and not anyone else. Fair enough - it's their session. Although, as a listener, I didn't enjoy it as much as I did Catherine McEvoy's session.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by ragaman
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
This all sounds pretty scary. I've only been playing three years. Would it be presumptuous of me to think I can play along? Are there any places where people welcome intermediate players?
-Helen
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by helendy
Re: Dublin: where are there open jam sessions?
Helen just give it a go. What have you got to lose? Drop in to the places mentioned. Ask can you join in? Sit down and play. If you don't know the tunes, listen. Have a set of tunes ready in case you're asked to start a few. I'm a musician from dublin who's played in all these places and I find that you'll meet some friendly and some not as friendly musicians. But that goes for all over.
On the discussion about Unseen's playing. I can vouch for what he says. He really has improved since that recording. I've had several nice tunes in O'Donoghue's with him and others.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by Deise