I often read here of folks complaining about how new groups often make ITM sound too Jazzy.
So here are my questions, for all the lovers of jazzed up ITM.
Who are the most Jazzy ITM bands out there today?
If any of their music is really that Jazzy, I wonder, have any of them really pushed the boat out & converted any trad tunes to the likes of John Coltrane's 26-2?
If by Jazzed up you mean modern crazy tunes, then I love that stuff. Love love love. The ones that immidiately spring to mind are bands like flook, Solas, Calico, Lau, Renegade etc. But again as I always say...its just personal taste and does not mean I dont like really trad stuff as well, why just the other minute I was listening to Grianan (P.J King, Siobhan Peoples etc) and I love it too.
I'm not sure what you mean by tunes having a facelift? I play trad tunes trad, and I play modern tunes tradishly as well...
Hmmmm, he's only had praise for you when he has mentioned you in chats. He does sometimes say "you wouldn't like that!" So, supposedly he thinks you do some few things I might not like? I can't imagine it...
Largely, I find the tunes are the tunes, and the "jazz" element usually is found in the manner of backup musicianship. The Bothy Band or DeDannan were probably derided by the hardcore trad folks in the 70's because of the more harmonically varied backdrop (and instrumentation - banjo? bouzouki? synthesizer? perish the thought!) they employed as being too jazzy or modern. Dennis Cahill and Martin Hayes today get some stick for bending the boundaries a bit harmonically Still, the tunes are the tunes, and new ways to hear them doesn't change their inherent integrity. Bring it on.
'Scad the Beggars' meet informally in various licensed premises along the Causeway Coast, at least once a week & we always give a warm welcome to any passing musicians & singers & insist that they share their musical talents with us ...... just as long as they are willing to buy the Beer! .............
'Scad the Beggars', is a local term for mealie-crushie, which is oatmeal fried in bacon fat, known in Scoland as creesh-mealie - so now you know! .............
To repeat someone else's request ~
"How many MySpace sites do you have now?"
Now for the 'comment' ~ with appreciation...
Whoa! ~ Fire the sound tech!!! That first "CRACK!" did me damage...
6 tracks, you are a brave lot. One wouldn't need directions to find you once the shores of Antrim had been reached. I wish they were videos. That one picture is scarey ~ congas!?! ~ & did I also hear bongos? I much prefer Tabla, maybe a little Guiro, or a big one, or a full set...
1.) "Loch Lomond"
~ Who's the singer?
2.) "Mouthie Fiddle"
~ AAAAA!!! ~ MORRIS DANCERS!!! Is the guy with the bells limping? You should 'na kicked 'im... Everyone on the floor for a "Strip the Willow"! Ouch, that ending. I keep getting my ears clapped...
Who's that white haired bloke in the photo on the far right, holding his fiddle on his knee with attitude?
I love the pictures...
3.) "Paddy West"
~ damn!, same singer again... I thought you were a 'ballad group'?
Another nice picture ~ with a silent hammer dulcimer...
"And tell them you're an old sailer man that comes from Paddy West..." This one would have been nice a cappella, with you all singing, and a bit of old-time harmony...or jazz chords...
4.) "Dulcimer Pipes" ~
WHOA!!! Who's that bloke with the hammers? And what is a 'Dulcimer-Pipes', sounds frightening. Is that you in the picture? And a harp in the background? Sorry, can't hear the harp or the pipes... I do hear a lot of feet going "bang, bang, bang, bang ~" Yeah, now I can hear a harp, but no pipes... We should get you over here, there's a certain piper I'd like to see muted... What is that you have your hammered dulcimer propped up on? Interesting decor...
5.) "Lassie Wi' the Yell..."
~ Ouch! "CRACK!" "BANG!" Tis that singer again.... You know, he'd do really well in a Balkan choir...
6.) "Pipes Fiddle"
~ There's that fiddler again... Now I can hear the pipes and harp...
Now, would the addition of congas and/or bongos qualify as jazzing, but the 'accompaniment'? Maybe a little scat singing, a la Joe Holmes? ~ in harmony?!
I enjoyed the sharing Dick, but it would be great to hear a couple of a cappella songs, the whole group giving it voice, no instruments at all? Maybe a certain Ulster parting song would take that treatment well, and of course "Paddy West" or any other sea chantey. We're going to have to arrange a return to the Antrim coast to catch some of this music and craic... Jazz or not... Would kaval or gaita be welcome? Or we could haul along the marracas and go-go bells, or the full synth and electronic drums?
Believe me C I've been trying to get them to do a couple without accompaniment, but no luck so far.
Those tracks were of course very simply recorded by sticking a mic on the table, in the middle of us. There was no attempt to tidy them up, as they're there just to help paint a picture of the sort of relaxed atmosphere we like to create at our weekly session, where anyone is more than welcome, whatever they play or sing.
Last night we had one local singer join us, who does sing without the aid of any of our scraping, strumming, honking or banging. We also had a few songs from a very beautiful young lady who was passing through, who also just happened to have a beautiful voice. We were also joined by the aforementioned Jim & Barbara on G Banjo & Guitar who sang a few of their favourites, plus a few American tunes on ye olde Banjer.
Unlike many of the high pressure ITM sessions that many members of this forum will be used to, our Sat night session welcomes all to join in. We often have 3 or 4 Flute & Fife players join us from a nearby Flute band, which can be great fun, when they play their own adapted versions { for marching } of regular Irish tunes. We are delighted & honoured that they actually want to be involved with our music & song.
One of our group always sings a couple of Blues songs & St James Infirmary usually gets a run through.
We have our own list of favourite tunes & songs but we take great pride in adapting our session to suit whoever joins us & is willing to share some of their music & song with us. We are always the richer for those experiences.
So I posted this MySpace in the hope that it might help to encourage any passing musicians & singers to come in & join us, safe in the knowledge that they will be made to feel very welcome. In my book, any session which doesn't openly welcome other musicians is hardly worthy of the name.
So if you do find yourself heading this way C, the message really is, bring & play whatever it is that turns you on & sing whatever makes you happy, you will be very welcome.
It looked the part ~ and sounded it ~ good craic...and welcoming... I've a weakness for the blues myself ~ Robert Johnson's "squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg..." brings tears to my eyes...
You still haven't told me who the singer is...
"Squeeze My Lemon: A Collection of Classic Blues Lyrics"
Compiled by Randy Poe
ISBN-10: 0634055461
ISBN-13: 978-0634055461
"They call it stormy Monday, but Tuesday's just as bad, Wednesday's worse, and Thursday's also sad..."
But while it may have nurtured and helped to give rise to the later, it ain't jazz...
As far as jazz, others walking the line, from up your way, include 'The Voice Squad' ~ but there are many vocal groups carrying traditonal music much further than this lot, and very much in the jazz idiom, which they don't quite fit completely ~
I was trying to remember a group of women singers, English, who we'd heard a few times over here and who did trad with jazz chords, amongst other things, but they wouldn't be the only a cappella group to mix genres. The King Singers did some arrangements on traditional songs too, and with some overlap into other realms... We've also caught a few North American a cappella groups, from both sides of the border, USA & Canada, who carried traditional ballads with a bit of swing to them... If not already obvious, I love unaccompanied voice, including when it imitates musical instruments, maybe even more so then...
So, it has been done, ITM blended with jazz, instrumentally, and by voice... Another place where it slips under the wire is in syncopation, and some keys ~ so tunes too, before any accompaniment, can suggest jazz influences.
Not saying this is, but one form of jazz I'm not a fan of is what some have referred to as 'elevator jazz'. There are many other stretches of the genres, and overlaps. There's the minimalist school, where Johnny-One-Note would be the height of aspiration. Some things can be pretty daft, as can those that like inventing their own mutable key signatures and smearing it all over the place, where you can barely make out the connection to an original melody, tradition or genre of inspiration and the resulting very personal and self-possessed interpretation...
As far as the so-called guilty 'new' ITM groups, what's really new? Those I won't mention that I don't particularly like, don't do it well anyway, might be excellent technicians, but lack any recognizeable understanding or soul that can clearly be identified with say 'dance music', or a given tradition or genre, so can hardly be accused of really representing any kind of meld between tradition and jazz. Maybe that's too harsh, they're giving it a go, trying, reaching out and sampling new ideas. But, it mostly sounds pretty clumsy to me, or very affected, like someone trying too hard and pulling it off as far as technique and content, but not believable as far as heart and soul. Some few do manage, but it is a rare few. Yes, I realize that the phrase 'jazzin' it up' doesn't have to specifically apply to that genre, jazz, or to be truer to that multi-faceted term ~ genres.
I would have said 'dickin' it up. Sorry, Dick, no aspersion intended your way. There are times when the treatment of this music is not so much about music as about the ego of the person or persons inflicting their need to display through the medium. There are times when what is being done to the music stands in the way of my enjoyment of it. Some few do it well, and the craic, the fun of their experiments comes through, and I've hear that in 'The Transatlantic Sessions', and I've heard it in the recordings of Sharon Shannon, fun, a good time. There are other big raving flash groups that, despite their many fans, just don't do it for me at all. Their 'jazzin', or 'dickin' with the music gets in the way of me being able to appreciated it, and consequently mean I also don't appreciate what they're doing, how ever obvious their technical prowess might be...
Just to repeat, the above has nothing to do with the links given previously... Those were just in answer to dear Random_notes positive contribution here...
C, the singer you hear on those tracks is Riley Piddington, a local School Principal, who sang around Belfast way back in the early Folk Revival days.
Tripswitch & At First Light are both excellent but I have to say my favourite outfit for this kind of exciting interpretation has to be Coolfin. Their rhythm section was a joy to behear!
As for syncopation, I hear that being done to death in so many modern tunes these days, especially Scottish tunes, to the point where it becomes really, really, really, really irritating.
Which reminds me of a Sligo based Whistle player I heard at Ballyshannon, many moons ago, who sounded like she slid in & out of almost every note. I think she played with the Irish group Heritage for a while, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I personally found that very annoying after a short while, much like any other form of ornamentation that is used to extreme & shadows or even completely destroys the heart & soul of the original tune. As with many things there is a fine line to be walked ..... Thank goodness many musicians are brave enough to walk that line though, although it is so easy I fear to get lost.
Thanks for sticking up for me C. ~ but I still plan to start up a busking session in the glass elevator at the Diamond Hotel.We'll be sure & play mazurkas if you care to dance.
Now would you say mazurkas were the 'jazz' of their day?.
Yes Dick ~ syncopation can make me seasick too, handled badly or overused, the same with slurs or slides. A little goes a long way, to use the cliche, where it is probably appropriate. Both syncopation and slippery slurry are awful when they too are cliche, or just used to be cute, or to egg things on.
Yes Random, and the waltz too, and polkas, etc... In a glass elevator, I think there I'd rather be on the playing end of things than dancing... I've never been to the diamond, would that be 'above my station'? Puttin' on the Ritz!
It's California so they heve to use tempered glass. Acually the ;Diamond' is above Johnny's Restaurant Probably refers to the diamonds found in Cherokee, CA..
Hearing too much syncopation is like having an uncontrollable attack of the burps.
I've not tried to play actual jazz, and I've only heard this done on ITM instruments when people have played swing on guitar and fiddle. Flute, whistle and uilleann pipes seem to be a bit underpowered for it - the pipes can bend the notes all right, but the constant air pressure rules out dynamics. Squeeze-boxes might bring more to it.
The history of Shetland Swing guitar is certainly one of quite thoroughgoing appropriation of a jazz form by trad, though I don't know how much it got taken up in Ireland.
I haven't noticed that the rhythms of most jazz are anything out of the ordinary. But the demented rhythms of the Balkan stuff played by Andy Irvine etc. must have led to experimentation in that area. Probably by different routes, Kathryn Tickell and her band have done some remarkable and exhilarating playing about with rhythms within pieces on their fairly recent album "Instrumental".
Yes, Kathryn Tickell, and then there's Capercaillie, and quite a few Canadian musicians have dabbled that way, fiddlers and the like, including from Cape Breton... Dea ol' Ashley MacIsaac, whom I knew as a wee lad in curls, likes to push boundaries...
ceolachan they're not jazzing it up.
That is the way traditional music is played in Canada. WLOF! I trust Sandy Silva is keeping them on their toes. So to speak.
As Alan Morrisroe said one night at a NY session, about a very syncopated, backbeated flute/banjo player... "you could NEVER dance to it, but it's nice to listen to sometimes when well done". I have to agree, if done well, for listening pieces, it really can be sort of captivating and an interesting change, mainly the sort of unexpected turns it takes. Surprises in the music are a nice challenge at times too... I was really enjoying playing with that person who was very good....just shifting the beat around was kind of fun, trying to anticipate what the different from usual stress notes would be etc.
As for fried oatmeal... glad someone else knows about it. The right way to fry oatmeal, you first make it with a bit less water than usual, maybe 1/3 less or so. Pour it in a bread pan, stick it in the frigde overnight. You can then slice it up into 1/2" slabs in the morning and fry it. If you don't have bacon fat, butter is really good too. I like it with just a bit of salt, but have heard others (like anyone eats this anymore, when I mention it people gag LOL!) pour maple syrup on it like pancakes. It really is good. If you just make it up and fry it, it all falls apart... the congealing in the fridge overnight is the key. It really is delicious all crispy on the edges, getting hungry thinking about it. And another time.... the REAL Scottish shortbread recipe.... taught to me in Scotland by Mary Scott.
My mom used to do that with left-over Cream of Wheat... gag. But I do like fried polenta, same principle. I make the polenta with chili powder, green chilies, cumin, some cheese. After putting it in a pan, letting it cool and congeal, slice and fry it. Top with green or red chili, inside out tamales!
I know, not Scottish at all.
When I first started participating in the local Irish Session in 1995, I thought hornpipes sounded like ragtime and tried to play hornpipes like ragtime pieces. I have since learned that there is a difference and can play hornpipes properly now. I had been playing ragtime for approximately twenty years before I began participating in the local session. Besides ragtime, I like to play jazz as well and both genres of music have their own type of "swing".
irisnevins ~ Even dear Micho Russell used it on occassion, and you can dance to syncopation if it isn't overdone and doesn't dominate, but occurs just now and then for interest... Others who throw it in now again are of the fraternity of bodhran bangers, Tommy Hayes definitely included. He likes to tease folks by sometimes offering a counterpoint in a different meter to what everyone else is trying to hold together...
I prefer my fried oatmeal with bacon in it, and served with eggs and bara lawr (seaweed), and fried tomatoes...
Nice one wyogal, I also love hominy grits and a strong cheddar...
Here's food jazz for you ~ Colston Basset Blue Stilton ~ mmmm!!!
Hi Ceol.... the person we met that night, seemed to only play that syncopated way... it was hard for others to play along, even Alan sat them out, but really liked listening, and since it was all syncopated, thus the you can't dance to it comment, but he really enjoyed it just the same. Sometimes at a session too, it's really nice to go around the room and have people solo or duo instead of everyone playing on everything all night... just might be my feeling on it, and to others defeats the purpose of a session, but I'd like to hear at least one unusual piece per person per night where everyone just listens, maybe they can pick one person to play along, two, whatever...but something special they like that others don't know. It brings new tunes into the repertoire as well.
Wyogal ...The polenta sounds yummy, but seaweed and bacon get my vote. Not sure on the eggs with it! BTW...best done with the long cooking oats, not instant or minute oats...it works, but something about the chewier grainy bits is nicer.
Fauxcelt.... that's real interesting about the rags sounding like hornpipes. Never looked on it that way... I started as a kid playing ragtime guitar. All by ear, borrowed guitar from a neighbor, and had Dave Van Ronk and Patrick Sky (yes, the very same who became a piper later on) LPs, and tuned up and started somehow copying what they did. In 1971 on a trip to England and Scotland that lasted nearly a year, I converted, and have played ITM ever since, guitar tunes first, backing later, and the ragtime picking so easily adapted to ITM, short skip.... different emphasis on beats, but easy transition. Ragtime playing is actually a really great discipline, along the lines of classical playing in ways for difficult. It really exercises all the hand muscles intensely and would give one great control for playing other types of music. I have forgotten pretty well every shred of every tune now, and am accused of being close minded to all music but ITM...mostly true! If I have to play or listen, that's it...totally obsessed.
~ a 'different drummer' I have known similar and wondered if there might be such a thing as a rhythm disability? I've come across playing that qualified enough times to not qualify as 'rare'... Dancing syncopated is easier under the influence...
I'm particularly fond of steel-cut oats, oat-meal, the grainy stuff, rather than the more common rolled oats, but I love both, and porridge, and oat cakes ~ mmmmmm!!! Then there's clootie dumpling and Athole Brose...
I'd love to hear your ragtime treatment of hornpipes and/or set dances... We've learned and danced a few ragtime dances in the past, which were a kick, lots of fun...
Listen to the album "The Boston Edge" by Joe Derrane and some friends, very swingy, but still danceable sound. In the liner notes, Joe describes how in the old days of the Boston dance halls, they developed a style very influenced by the big swing dance bands of the time.
Al, yes, I like Joe Derrane, have most of his recordings... That is again part of the dance hall period influence, which also happened in Ireland, including the introduction of sax and drum set...
Forgot to add Iris, the eggs ~ duck eggs are the preferred choice!!!
Wild link Ptarm, are you applying any of those techniques yourself?
Jazzed! ~ back to the past, any addition of guitar or other plectrum instrument...
Donal Lunny doesn't deny his 'other' influences, instruments of choice aside...rhythm section...sax...and Christy Moore has never been shy of his mixed roots either, being fond of the blues for one... So, 'jazzin', well, you make your own decisions... I'd definitely call it 'jazzed up ITM'...
Well - any person with half a brain relaises that some sessions its ok to play funky tunes and other session its not. It isnt rocket science.
Iris - what do you mean by someone playing Syncopated all night? Do you mean the type of tunes they played or that they just added syncopation willy nilly?
ceolachan - thanks for the Moving Hearts links. That Tribute To Peadar O'Donnell piece was majestic. I didn't really go a bundle on the other ones, though I found the McBrides - Vicar St. one intriguing for its visuals. It seemed to start with a tableau of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary, going on to a mad hierophant in a beam of light, followed by an atomic explosion and then Moses clutching the tablets on top of a mountain being rocked by an earthquake. If you don't believe me, watch it again!
Yes, ragtime playing is good exercise for your hands (speaking from experience).
Irish music was one of the formative influences on early ragtime because immigrants from Ireland did bring their music with them. It is very likely that the former slaves (or freed slaves) who were the earliest ragtime musicians heard a lot of Irish music along with everything else that they listened to. A lot of early ragtime (between 1865 and 1895) was based on pre-existing tunes and/or songs which the musicians had heard somewhere.
The early ragtime musicians would play their own "special" versions of popular music for the customers. Most of these early ragtimers were itinerant, wandering musicians who had no formal musical training. This supposedly evolved into ragtime and is where ragtime music came from.
Eventually, people such as Scott Joplin (who had some music theory training) as well as others began writing their own original ragtime pieces and getting them published.
If I am just accompanying, I need only half my brain. However, if I am playing lead and having to accompany myself at the same time, I must use all of the few functioning brain cells inside my head.
Fauxcelt.... that's the fun of it really on the fingerstyle, playing lead and backing yourself, all with one hand...on guitar that is!!
When I play backup I find I really need more brain cells though, because I still play partial melody, but you kind of have to make it up as you go along, depending on what the melody player is doing at any given moment. Playing a tune, you know what comes next! The surprise element in playing backup is always the challenge.
Now... on topic, I don't hardly ever use the jazz chords, but when playing with someone who's got that style, rather just change the beat a bit, or the stresses... what's fun too is to tease with it in a way and syncopate their syncopations a little (does that render it normal? LOL), to add a little surprise to it... just here and there, like a bit of spice. Mostly, the thing is to be right with them.
Ceolachan, a rocket is a metal tube which goes straight up with an unbearably bright light coming out of its rear end.
Syncopating the syncopation sounds like just like playing jazz or ragtime.
You know, the Baytils. Liverpool lads, funny haircuts, goofy suits, played this nancy-boy pop music version of African American R&B until they took a buncha drugs and found Eastern philosophy?
They found the Maharishi having it away with some female devotee, to be precise. Or perhaps this was a hallucination on their part - I don't know whether or not they were tripping at the time. Serves them right. It's not something I'd want to pay a lot of money to see, either chemically or in reality.
Well, I thought Clannad had a really cool take on jazzing up the music. They eventually lost me, though. Harmonized singing has been one of my greatest joys since childhood, so I love the Voice Squad. Herself, myself and a friend have shamelessly covered some of their songs. Great fun! There’s nothing quite like *being* the instrument.
I get a kick out of seeing talented bands like Solas, but I’ve found that, when I get the recordings, I tend to listen only once or twice. The recordings I listen to over and over (and over and over) are the ones that are all about the tunes, not about cool arrangements. I like cool, novel arrangements as much as anybody, but once I “get” the arrangement, it loses a lot of its impact.
Too much fussin' does grow tirin'... I am with you Bob, the ones I come back to repeatedly are just that, about the music...where any arrangement or treatment on the part of those providing it do not overcome it and lessen it...
Uh oh, we're edging too close to whazzisphase... Please, no "Mull of Kintyre", please!!! I'm on my knees and beggin'... I'm too old for too much more of that shight... (holding my fingers up to make the sign of the cross)
No such implication assumed, not by me anyway... 'Jazzed up' covers a lot of things, but that is definitely one of the many, as is Clannad in much of what they did and where they went. however, I did lose interest in the later stuff, which to my senses, at the time, started to detract from the music... It's been a long time though since I had an ear in that direction...
Jazzed up ITM
Jazzed up ITM
I often read here of folks complaining about how new groups often make ITM sound too Jazzy.
So here are my questions, for all the lovers of jazzed up ITM.
Who are the most Jazzy ITM bands out there today?
If any of their music is really that Jazzy, I wonder, have any of them really pushed the boat out & converted any trad tunes to the likes of John Coltrane's 26-2?
e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy2l_T74Vx4
If so, please give examples?
If not, has anyone got any suggestions as to which tunes might actually benefit from such a facelift?
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
If by Jazzed up you mean modern crazy tunes, then I love that stuff. Love love love. The ones that immidiately spring to mind are bands like flook, Solas, Calico, Lau, Renegade etc. But again as I always say...its just personal taste and does not mean I dont like really trad stuff as well, why just the other minute I was listening to Grianan (P.J King, Siobhan Peoples etc) and I love it too.
I'm not sure what you mean by tunes having a facelift? I play trad tunes trad, and I play modern tunes tradishly as well...
Dow hates it when I play crazy tunes
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by bb
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Hmmmm, he's only had praise for you when he has mentioned you in chats. He does sometimes say "you wouldn't like that!" So, supposedly he thinks you do some few things I might not like? I can't imagine it...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Maybe a tune or two, but not you...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzed up ITM
Do foxtrots qualify? They used to be called 'jazzin', and often in a derogatory sort of way...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Largely, I find the tunes are the tunes, and the "jazz" element usually is found in the manner of backup musicianship. The Bothy Band or DeDannan were probably derided by the hardcore trad folks in the 70's because of the more harmonically varied backdrop (and instrumentation - banjo? bouzouki? synthesizer? perish the thought!) they employed as being too jazzy or modern. Dennis Cahill and Martin Hayes today get some stick for bending the boundaries a bit harmonically Still, the tunes are the tunes, and new ways to hear them doesn't change their inherent integrity. Bring it on.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by drone
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Every time I play, it's jazz. LOL
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Jazzed up ITM ~ or Latinized?
Scad the Beggars ~ Dick & company
http://www.myspace.com/scadthebeggars
'Scad the Beggars' meet informally in various licensed premises along the Causeway Coast, at least once a week & we always give a warm welcome to any passing musicians & singers & insist that they share their musical talents with us ...... just as long as they are willing to buy the Beer!
.............
'Scad the Beggars', is a local term for mealie-crushie, which is oatmeal fried in bacon fat, known in Scoland as creesh-mealie - so now you know! .............
To repeat someone else's request ~
"How many MySpace sites do you have now?"
Now for the 'comment' ~ with appreciation...
Whoa! ~ Fire the sound tech!!! That first "CRACK!" did me damage...
6 tracks, you are a brave lot. One wouldn't need directions to find you once the shores of Antrim had been reached. I wish they were videos. That one picture is scarey ~ congas!?! ~ & did I also hear bongos? I much prefer Tabla, maybe a little Guiro, or a big one, or a full set...
1.) "Loch Lomond"
~ Who's the singer?
2.) "Mouthie Fiddle"
~ AAAAA!!! ~ MORRIS DANCERS!!! Is the guy with the bells limping? You should 'na kicked 'im... Everyone on the floor for a "Strip the Willow"! Ouch, that ending. I keep getting my ears clapped...
Who's that white haired bloke in the photo on the far right, holding his fiddle on his knee with attitude?
I love the pictures...
3.) "Paddy West"
~ damn!, same singer again... I thought you were a 'ballad group'?
Another nice picture ~ with a silent hammer dulcimer...
"And tell them you're an old sailer man that comes from Paddy West..." This one would have been nice a cappella, with you all singing, and a bit of old-time harmony...or jazz chords...
4.) "Dulcimer Pipes" ~
I do hear a lot of feet going "bang, bang, bang, bang ~" Yeah, now I can hear a harp, but no pipes... We should get you over here, there's a certain piper I'd like to see muted... What is that you have your hammered dulcimer propped up on? Interesting decor...
WHOA!!! Who's that bloke with the hammers? And what is a 'Dulcimer-Pipes', sounds frightening. Is that you in the picture? And a harp in the background? Sorry, can't hear the harp or the pipes...
5.) "Lassie Wi' the Yell..."
~ Ouch! "CRACK!" "BANG!" Tis that singer again.... You know, he'd do really well in a Balkan choir...
6.) "Pipes Fiddle"
~ There's that fiddler again... Now I can hear the pipes and harp...
Now, would the addition of congas and/or bongos qualify as jazzing, but the 'accompaniment'? Maybe a little scat singing, a la Joe Holmes? ~ in harmony?!
I enjoyed the sharing Dick, but it would be great to hear a couple of a cappella songs, the whole group giving it voice, no instruments at all? Maybe a certain Ulster parting song would take that treatment well, and of course "Paddy West" or any other sea chantey. We're going to have to arrange a return to the Antrim coast to catch some of this music and craic... Jazz or not... Would kaval or gaita be welcome? Or we could haul along the marracas and go-go bells, or the full synth and electronic drums?
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
~ jazzing, by the 'accompaniment'? ~ as drone suggested?
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
I quite like Sharon Shannon, musically speaking, and I'd consider that to be taking it along these lines....
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Maire Ni Chathasaigh & Chris Newman have carried things along lines that I'd say fit the subject...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Believe me C I've been trying to get them to do a couple without accompaniment, but no luck so far.
Those tracks were of course very simply recorded by sticking a mic on the table, in the middle of us. There was no attempt to tidy them up, as they're there just to help paint a picture of the sort of relaxed atmosphere we like to create at our weekly session, where anyone is more than welcome, whatever they play or sing.
Last night we had one local singer join us, who does sing without the aid of any of our scraping, strumming, honking or banging. We also had a few songs from a very beautiful young lady who was passing through, who also just happened to have a beautiful voice. We were also joined by the aforementioned Jim & Barbara on G Banjo & Guitar who sang a few of their favourites, plus a few American tunes on ye olde Banjer.
Unlike many of the high pressure ITM sessions that many members of this forum will be used to, our Sat night session welcomes all to join in. We often have 3 or 4 Flute & Fife players join us from a nearby Flute band, which can be great fun, when they play their own adapted versions { for marching } of regular Irish tunes. We are delighted & honoured that they actually want to be involved with our music & song.
One of our group always sings a couple of Blues songs & St James Infirmary usually gets a run through.
We have our own list of favourite tunes & songs but we take great pride in adapting our session to suit whoever joins us & is willing to share some of their music & song with us. We are always the richer for those experiences.
So I posted this MySpace in the hope that it might help to encourage any passing musicians & singers to come in & join us, safe in the knowledge that they will be made to feel very welcome. In my book, any session which doesn't openly welcome other musicians is hardly worthy of the name.
So if you do find yourself heading this way C, the message really is, bring & play whatever it is that turns you on & sing whatever makes you happy, you will be very welcome.
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
It looked the part ~ and sounded it ~ good craic...and welcoming... I've a weakness for the blues myself ~ Robert Johnson's "squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg..." brings tears to my eyes...
You still haven't told me who the singer is...
"Squeeze My Lemon: A Collection of Classic Blues Lyrics"
Compiled by Randy Poe
ISBN-10: 0634055461
ISBN-13: 978-0634055461
"They call it stormy Monday, but Tuesday's just as bad, Wednesday's worse, and Thursday's also sad..."
But while it may have nurtured and helped to give rise to the later, it ain't jazz...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
As far as jazz, others walking the line, from up your way, include 'The Voice Squad' ~ but there are many vocal groups carrying traditonal music much further than this lot, and very much in the jazz idiom, which they don't quite fit completely ~
http://www.taramusic.ie/biogs/vsquad.htm
Lilting has been mentioned before as one of several origins for scat singing...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
John McSherry
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
I was trying to remember a group of women singers, English, who we'd heard a few times over here and who did trad with jazz chords, amongst other things, but they wouldn't be the only a cappella group to mix genres. The King Singers did some arrangements on traditional songs too, and with some overlap into other realms... We've also caught a few North American a cappella groups, from both sides of the border, USA & Canada, who carried traditional ballads with a bit of swing to them... If not already obvious, I love unaccompanied voice, including when it imitates musical instruments, maybe even more so then...
So, it has been done, ITM blended with jazz, instrumentally, and by voice... Another place where it slips under the wire is in syncopation, and some keys ~ so tunes too, before any accompaniment, can suggest jazz influences.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
& Michael McGoldrick ~
Tripswitch
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1995
At First Light
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/104
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Absolutely!
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Not saying this is, but one form of jazz I'm not a fan of is what some have referred to as 'elevator jazz'. There are many other stretches of the genres, and overlaps. There's the minimalist school, where Johnny-One-Note would be the height of aspiration. Some things can be pretty daft, as can those that like inventing their own mutable key signatures and smearing it all over the place, where you can barely make out the connection to an original melody, tradition or genre of inspiration and the resulting very personal and self-possessed interpretation...
As far as the so-called guilty 'new' ITM groups, what's really new? Those I won't mention that I don't particularly like, don't do it well anyway, might be excellent technicians, but lack any recognizeable understanding or soul that can clearly be identified with say 'dance music', or a given tradition or genre, so can hardly be accused of really representing any kind of meld between tradition and jazz. Maybe that's too harsh, they're giving it a go, trying, reaching out and sampling new ideas. But, it mostly sounds pretty clumsy to me, or very affected, like someone trying too hard and pulling it off as far as technique and content, but not believable as far as heart and soul. Some few do manage, but it is a rare few. Yes, I realize that the phrase 'jazzin' it up' doesn't have to specifically apply to that genre, jazz, or to be truer to that multi-faceted term ~ genres.
I would have said 'dickin' it up. Sorry, Dick, no aspersion intended your way. There are times when the treatment of this music is not so much about music as about the ego of the person or persons inflicting their need to display through the medium. There are times when what is being done to the music stands in the way of my enjoyment of it. Some few do it well, and the craic, the fun of their experiments comes through, and I've hear that in 'The Transatlantic Sessions', and I've heard it in the recordings of Sharon Shannon, fun, a good time. There are other big raving flash groups that, despite their many fans, just don't do it for me at all. Their 'jazzin', or 'dickin' with the music gets in the way of me being able to appreciated it, and consequently mean I also don't appreciate what they're doing, how ever obvious their technical prowess might be...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Just to repeat, the above has nothing to do with the links given previously... Those were just in answer to dear Random_notes positive contribution here...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
C, the singer you hear on those tracks is Riley Piddington, a local School Principal, who sang around Belfast way back in the early Folk Revival days.
Tripswitch & At First Light are both excellent but I have to say my favourite outfit for this kind of exciting interpretation has to be Coolfin. Their rhythm section was a joy to behear!
As for syncopation, I hear that being done to death in so many modern tunes these days, especially Scottish tunes, to the point where it becomes really, really, really, really irritating.
Which reminds me of a Sligo based Whistle player I heard at Ballyshannon, many moons ago, who sounded like she slid in & out of almost every note. I think she played with the Irish group Heritage for a while, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I personally found that very annoying after a short while, much like any other form of ornamentation that is used to extreme & shadows or even completely destroys the heart & soul of the original tune. As with many things there is a fine line to be walked ..... Thank goodness many musicians are brave enough to walk that line though, although it is so easy I fear to get lost.
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Anyone heard Kate McGarry sing an Irish aire?
She is, no doubt, a jazz singer.
When she does a traditional song I beleve she is true to the music.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12752425
Thanks for sticking up for me C. ~ but I still plan to start up a busking session in the glass elevator at the Diamond Hotel.We'll be sure & play mazurkas if you care to dance.
Now would you say mazurkas were the 'jazz' of their day?.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Mike McGoldrick put out a very good celtic/jazzy album called "Fused".
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Bredna
Re: Jazzed up ITM
"Fused", almost forgot about that...
Yes Dick ~ syncopation can make me seasick too, handled badly or overused, the same with slurs or slides. A little goes a long way, to use the cliche, where it is probably appropriate. Both syncopation and slippery slurry are awful when they too are cliche, or just used to be cute, or to egg things on.
Yes Random, and the waltz too, and polkas, etc... In a glass elevator, I think there I'd rather be on the playing end of things than dancing... I've never been to the diamond, would that be 'above my station'?
Puttin' on the Ritz!
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Love syncopated tunes...love love love
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by bb
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Fused
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/154
Submitted on May 4th 2002 by jasonhull.
1. Waterman's
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3367
It's California so they heve to use tempered glass. Acually the ;Diamond' is above Johnny's Restaurant Probably refers to the diamonds found in Cherokee, CA..
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
I am not a fan of my own playing of the penguin;s 'harmonium' . . but can Sharon Shannon hit that syncopation or what?
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Hearing too much syncopation is like having an uncontrollable attack of the burps.
I've not tried to play actual jazz, and I've only heard this done on ITM instruments when people have played swing on guitar and fiddle. Flute, whistle and uilleann pipes seem to be a bit underpowered for it - the pipes can bend the notes all right, but the constant air pressure rules out dynamics. Squeeze-boxes might bring more to it.
The history of Shetland Swing guitar is certainly one of quite thoroughgoing appropriation of a jazz form by trad, though I don't know how much it got taken up in Ireland.
I haven't noticed that the rhythms of most jazz are anything out of the ordinary. But the demented rhythms of the Balkan stuff played by Andy Irvine etc. must have led to experimentation in that area. Probably by different routes, Kathryn Tickell and her band have done some remarkable and exhilarating playing about with rhythms within pieces on their fairly recent album "Instrumental".
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Jazzed up ITM
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2627
Submitted on June 25th 2007 by nicholas
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Yes, Kathryn Tickell, and then there's Capercaillie, and quite a few Canadian musicians have dabbled that way, fiddlers and the like, including from Cape Breton... Dea ol' Ashley MacIsaac, whom I knew as a wee lad in curls, likes to push boundaries...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Lest we forget another favourite of ours ~ La Bottine Souriante...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
ceolachan they're not jazzing it up.
That is the way traditional music is played in Canada. WLOF! I trust Sandy Silva is keeping them on their toes. So to speak.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
As Alan Morrisroe said one night at a NY session, about a very syncopated, backbeated flute/banjo player... "you could NEVER dance to it, but it's nice to listen to sometimes when well done". I have to agree, if done well, for listening pieces, it really can be sort of captivating and an interesting change, mainly the sort of unexpected turns it takes. Surprises in the music are a nice challenge at times too... I was really enjoying playing with that person who was very good....just shifting the beat around was kind of fun, trying to anticipate what the different from usual stress notes would be etc.
As for fried oatmeal... glad someone else knows about it. The right way to fry oatmeal, you first make it with a bit less water than usual, maybe 1/3 less or so. Pour it in a bread pan, stick it in the frigde overnight. You can then slice it up into 1/2" slabs in the morning and fry it. If you don't have bacon fat, butter is really good too. I like it with just a bit of salt, but have heard others (like anyone eats this anymore, when I mention it people gag LOL!) pour maple syrup on it like pancakes. It really is good. If you just make it up and fry it, it all falls apart... the congealing in the fridge overnight is the key. It really is delicious all crispy on the edges, getting hungry thinking about it. And another time.... the REAL Scottish shortbread recipe.... taught to me in Scotland by Mary Scott.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Jazzed up ITM
My mom used to do that with left-over Cream of Wheat... gag. But I do like fried polenta, same principle. I make the polenta with chili powder, green chilies, cumin, some cheese. After putting it in a pan, letting it cool and congeal, slice and fry it. Top with green or red chili, inside out tamales!
I know, not Scottish at all.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Jazzed up ITM
When I first started participating in the local Irish Session in 1995, I thought hornpipes sounded like ragtime and tried to play hornpipes like ragtime pieces. I have since learned that there is a difference and can play hornpipes properly now. I had been playing ragtime for approximately twenty years before I began participating in the local session. Besides ragtime, I like to play jazz as well and both genres of music have their own type of "swing".
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Jazzed up ITM
"The Long, Long Note" by Deiseal.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by snorre
Re: Jazzed up ITM ~ addin' a bit of jazzin' to the music & dance
Turlough O'Carolan & Italian influences
Dance Bands & their influence
The Gaelic League & Comhaltas & The Commission & Cogal
Seán Ó Riada & Ceoltóirí Chualann & The Chieftains
& Paddy Moloney & Derek Bell
Dr. Mícheál Ó Súileabháin
http://ceolas.org/artists/Micheal_O_Suilleabhain.html
Percussion ~ all
DADGAD
Planxty
Bothy Band
Stockton's Wing
The Pogues
Christy Moore & company & Moving Hearts
Andy Irvine
Horslips
Douglas Gunn & his ensemble
http://www.melrosemusic.ie/dgunn.htm
Clannad
Mary Black
Sinead O'Connor
etc...etc...etc...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Random_notes ~ No, Nooo, Noooooo, AAAAA!!! Not the SIlva kid...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
irisnevins ~ Even dear Micho Russell used it on occassion, and you can dance to syncopation if it isn't overdone and doesn't dominate, but occurs just now and then for interest... Others who throw it in now again are of the fraternity of bodhran bangers, Tommy Hayes definitely included. He likes to tease folks by sometimes offering a counterpoint in a different meter to what everyone else is trying to hold together...
I prefer my fried oatmeal with bacon in it, and served with eggs and bara lawr (seaweed), and fried tomatoes...
Nice one wyogal, I also love hominy grits and a strong cheddar...
Here's food jazz for you ~ Colston Basset Blue Stilton ~ mmmm!!!
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Sean Maguire
ALL ~ chordal accompaniment
ALL ~ percussion accompaniment
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Hi Ceol.... the person we met that night, seemed to only play that syncopated way... it was hard for others to play along, even Alan sat them out, but really liked listening, and since it was all syncopated, thus the you can't dance to it comment, but he really enjoyed it just the same. Sometimes at a session too, it's really nice to go around the room and have people solo or duo instead of everyone playing on everything all night... just might be my feeling on it, and to others defeats the purpose of a session, but I'd like to hear at least one unusual piece per person per night where everyone just listens, maybe they can pick one person to play along, two, whatever...but something special they like that others don't know. It brings new tunes into the repertoire as well.
Wyogal ...The polenta sounds yummy, but seaweed and bacon get my vote. Not sure on the eggs with it! BTW...best done with the long cooking oats, not instant or minute oats...it works, but something about the chewier grainy bits is nicer.
Fauxcelt.... that's real interesting about the rags sounding like hornpipes. Never looked on it that way... I started as a kid playing ragtime guitar. All by ear, borrowed guitar from a neighbor, and had Dave Van Ronk and Patrick Sky (yes, the very same who became a piper later on) LPs, and tuned up and started somehow copying what they did. In 1971 on a trip to England and Scotland that lasted nearly a year, I converted, and have played ITM ever since, guitar tunes first, backing later, and the ragtime picking so easily adapted to ITM, short skip.... different emphasis on beats, but easy transition. Ragtime playing is actually a really great discipline, along the lines of classical playing in ways for difficult. It really exercises all the hand muscles intensely and would give one great control for playing other types of music. I have forgotten pretty well every shred of every tune now, and am accused of being close minded to all music but ITM...mostly true! If I have to play or listen, that's it...totally obsessed.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Jazzed up ITM
~ a 'different drummer'
I have known similar and wondered if there might be such a thing as a rhythm disability? I've come across playing that qualified enough times to not qualify as 'rare'... Dancing syncopated is easier under the influence...
I'm particularly fond of steel-cut oats, oat-meal, the grainy stuff, rather than the more common rolled oats, but I love both, and porridge, and oat cakes ~ mmmmmm!!! Then there's clootie dumpling and Athole Brose...
I'd love to hear your ragtime treatment of hornpipes and/or set dances... We've learned and danced a few ragtime dances in the past, which were a kick, lots of fun...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
It has to be smokey bacon...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Any box player who is into jazzing up the music, might like to check out this site:
http://www.bluesbox.biz/
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Listen to the album "The Boston Edge" by Joe Derrane and some friends, very swingy, but still danceable sound. In the liner notes, Joe describes how in the old days of the Boston dance halls, they developed a style very influenced by the big swing dance bands of the time.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Canadian Pierre Schryer's CD 'Blue Drag'
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Al, yes, I like Joe Derrane, have most of his recordings... That is again part of the dance hall period influence, which also happened in Ireland, including the introduction of sax and drum set...
Forgot to add Iris, the eggs ~ duck eggs are the preferred choice!!!
Wild link Ptarm, are you applying any of those techniques yourself?
Jazzed! ~ back to the past, any addition of guitar or other plectrum instrument...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
How far did Moving Hearts take jazz in their music, if at all?
(I heard very little of their stuff.)
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Jazzed up ITM
"Jazzin'" ~ meaning beyond the borders rather than specifically some form of classical or modern jazz.
http://www.movinghearts.ie/
Donal Lunny doesn't deny his 'other' influences, instruments of choice aside...rhythm section...sax...and Christy Moore has never been shy of his mixed roots either, being fond of the blues for one... So, 'jazzin', well, you make your own decisions... I'd definitely call it 'jazzed up ITM'...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM a la Moving Hearts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_Hearts
Moving Hearts Live - Lake of Shadows ~ in 5/4 ~ 2 & 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANCOk1gQOrI
Moving Hearts - McBrides - Vicar St. 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dANDTDZBjp4
Moving Hearts live at the NCH, Dublin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbqhkbjLEIM
Moving Hearts - Vicar St
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3__n6qTf0Y
Moving Hearts feat. Máirtin O'Connor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLVzyqOJXR0
Moving Hearts - A tribute to Peadar O Donnell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo57L-9fjtA
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Clannad were one of the first to introduce the jazz practice of each player doing a "solo" in the tune, notably in "Nil sinn La" and stuff like that.
Horslips obviously with Celtic Rock, and a lot of the groups today.
One unfortunate side effect is that some people think that that type of stuff is played at most sessions, and is not, and the player cannot adjust.
Bodhran players, copying say John Joe, are noted for this failing.
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Jazzed up ITM
The wisdom of bliss, well said...
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Well - any person with half a brain relaises that some sessions its ok to play funky tunes and other session its not. It isnt rocket science.
Iris - what do you mean by someone playing Syncopated all night? Do you mean the type of tunes they played or that they just added syncopation willy nilly?
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by bb
Re: Jazzed up ITM
ceolachan - thanks for the Moving Hearts links. That Tribute To Peadar O'Donnell piece was majestic. I didn't really go a bundle on the other ones, though I found the McBrides - Vicar St. one intriguing for its visuals. It seemed to start with a tableau of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary, going on to a mad hierophant in a beam of light, followed by an atomic explosion and then Moses clutching the tablets on top of a mountain being rocked by an earthquake. If you don't believe me, watch it again!
# Posted on August 11th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Uh oh, everybody hide, bb is out of the box...
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
No nicholas, sorry, once is enough...
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
I have encountered many bodhran players without half a brain.
Maybe I'm just unlucky.
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Hey!!
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by bb
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Yes, ragtime playing is good exercise for your hands (speaking from experience).
Irish music was one of the formative influences on early ragtime because immigrants from Ireland did bring their music with them. It is very likely that the former slaves (or freed slaves) who were the earliest ragtime musicians heard a lot of Irish music along with everything else that they listened to. A lot of early ragtime (between 1865 and 1895) was based on pre-existing tunes and/or songs which the musicians had heard somewhere.
The early ragtime musicians would play their own "special" versions of popular music for the customers. Most of these early ragtimers were itinerant, wandering musicians who had no formal musical training. This supposedly evolved into ragtime and is where ragtime music came from.
Eventually, people such as Scott Joplin (who had some music theory training) as well as others began writing their own original ragtime pieces and getting them published.
If I am just accompanying, I need only half my brain. However, if I am playing lead and having to accompany myself at the same time, I must use all of the few functioning brain cells inside my head.
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Jazzed up ITM
You know I loves yuh bb, despite some of those horrid compositions you play...
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by ceolachan
What's a rocket?
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Fauxcelt.... that's the fun of it really on the fingerstyle, playing lead and backing yourself, all with one hand...on guitar that is!!
When I play backup I find I really need more brain cells though, because I still play partial melody, but you kind of have to make it up as you go along, depending on what the melody player is doing at any given moment. Playing a tune, you know what comes next! The surprise element in playing backup is always the challenge.
Now... on topic, I don't hardly ever use the jazz chords, but when playing with someone who's got that style, rather just change the beat a bit, or the stresses... what's fun too is to tease with it in a way and syncopate their syncopations a little (does that render it normal? LOL), to add a little surprise to it... just here and there, like a bit of spice. Mostly, the thing is to be right with them.
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Ceolachan, a rocket is a metal tube which goes straight up with an unbearably bright light coming out of its rear end.
Syncopating the syncopation sounds like just like playing jazz or ragtime.
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Jazzed up ITM
LEAVE THE JAZZ TO THE BAYTILS!!!
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by lunchblaze
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Who are the "BAYTILS"?
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Jazzed up ITM
You know, the Baytils. Liverpool lads, funny haircuts, goofy suits, played this nancy-boy pop music version of African American R&B until they took a buncha drugs and found Eastern philosophy?
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Jazzed up ITM
They found the Maharishi having it away with some female devotee, to be precise. Or perhaps this was a hallucination on their part - I don't know whether or not they were tripping at the time. Serves them right. It's not something I'd want to pay a lot of money to see, either chemically or in reality.
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Well, I thought Clannad had a really cool take on jazzing up the music. They eventually lost me, though. Harmonized singing has been one of my greatest joys since childhood, so I love the Voice Squad. Herself, myself and a friend have shamelessly covered some of their songs. Great fun! There’s nothing quite like *being* the instrument.
I get a kick out of seeing talented bands like Solas, but I’ve found that, when I get the recordings, I tend to listen only once or twice. The recordings I listen to over and over (and over and over) are the ones that are all about the tunes, not about cool arrangements. I like cool, novel arrangements as much as anybody, but once I “get” the arrangement, it loses a lot of its impact.
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Too much fussin' does grow tirin'... I am with you Bob, the ones I come back to repeatedly are just that, about the music...where any arrangement or treatment on the part of those providing it do not overcome it and lessen it...
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Do you mean those Silver Beatles who haven't had a "hit" or a new song since 1970?
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Jazzed up ITM
Uh oh, we're edging too close to whazzisphase... Please, no "Mull of Kintyre", please!!! I'm on my knees and beggin'... I'm too old for too much more of that shight... (holding my fingers up to make the sign of the cross)
# Posted on August 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Jazzed up ITM
I thought Clannad were great, just because I mentioned they introduced "solos" should not imply a criticism.
And Horslips were magic. And still are
# Posted on August 13th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Jazzed up ITM
No such implication assumed, not by me anyway... 'Jazzed up' covers a lot of things, but that is definitely one of the many, as is Clannad in much of what they did and where they went. however, I did lose interest in the later stuff, which to my senses, at the time, started to detract from the music... It's been a long time though since I had an ear in that direction...
# Posted on August 13th 2008 by ceolachan