Is there a reason why there’s no category for flings on this website? It’s the only major category that isn’t included in the list of categories.
Is there a reason why there’s no category for flings on this website? It’s the only major category that isn’t included in the list of categories.
I know, the devil made you do it…
What was it the witches in Lear sang? There’s two of us. Now we only need a third and a toad’s p—-s and eye of newt and one of those bawdlerized versions of the O’Neill collection, maybe some peanut oil too and a barbecue pit…
~ And a yo, ho, ho, and a bottle of rum, three men ~ No!, that’s not it….
Hey Dow, four posts in a row… :-P
LOL. The thing is, I can understand there not being a category for marches cuz you get 4/4, 2/4, 6/8 and all sorts, and I can understand it with slow airs as well. But flings are something specific. And there are a lot in the tunes section, but they’re all in under reel, hornpipe or strathspey. It’s like saying a hornpipe is the same thing as a reel because it’s in 4/4. Obviously rubbish. And it would be annoying if all the hornpipes were lumped together with the reels, wouldn’t it? I just can’t understand why this one thing is lacking, even when there are categories for strathspey and barndance and stuff…
Maybe if we get down on our knees and beg and pray to Jeremy, he might add it :-)
Look at this early post https://thesession.org/discussions/5. Will managed it! It’s got me thinking. Maybe it’s the way we’re phrasing it…
Jeremy, I’d like to see flings added to the list of types of tunes in the form to post tunes. Although the metre is covered under reels or hornpipes, it would be easier for others to find the tunes under their proper headings.
(Sorry, I couldn’t leave in Will’s American spelling of "metre") :-)
There’s still a problem, the nature of the beast, there are highland flings that are better known know as reels and which are collected here under that heading. There are also tunes that serve both as a strathspey in some circles and a highland fling in others. There are even some highland flings that because of the loss of the dance and that understanding, for example with regards to the classic second ending for the B-part, have been doubled to 32 bars/measures and been taken as a consequence to be a hornpipe or barndance. So, you still have a similar problem to marches, though not one to do with time signatures… Well almost ~ what is even more of a kick is finding one that has been notated, because of the swing, as treble time, for example as a jig or slide.
I do know the frustration. That is why, though far from complete, I’ve been adding alternate titles with ‘highland fling’ so that at least we can do a general search and to call them up collectively.
Wow, that was a trip back to the days before lost innocence….
I agree—flings should have their own category here. Then the trick would be to reclassify all the flings already posted.
"known now" was the intention intention…
Well, tunes like Rolling In The Ryegrass and Pigtown which are usually played as reels can stay that way. And strathspeys that are sometimes played as flings can stay that way too, but there are plenty flings that you could single out as just being flings, that you could put into their own category. That way people could browse them and learn more about them and get into them and play them in sessions more and and and and… well, we can only hope and dream :-)
"Then the trick would be to reclassify all the flings already posted."
I’d be happy to send a list to Jeremy to make the transition easier. I’m geeky like that. I’d send it first to ‘c’ so he can add to it and check it through of course. You’ll do that, won’t you ‘c’?
Damn. Why do you always have to run away like that?
I’d give my full support to anything that increases the appreciation, presence and playing of these lovely tunes…
I didn’t run away, I was just supping on a hot cocoa and espresso, you know we ol’ folk need our energy boosted now and again with this legal speed… ;-)
I’d promise to play more flings if you send me a few thousand quid so I can buy myself a Lachenal Edeophone. Would you do that?
So whoosis ~ you want to be witch #3? Do you know the proper incantations and have you brought anything comparably vile to say a bad Irish collection to burn or ear hair from a mole?
About the contribution, just let me win the lottery first, but I will expect a hell of a lot more of you than just flings ~ you’ll have to teach and preach…
‘c’ I told you you need to wait till the cauldrons hotter before you put those toads in, otherwise they don’t cook crispy enough. Pass the bat, please. Ta.
Damn, the things exploded and I’ve not got toad guts all over me. Hand me that copy of what’s his face’s O’Neill’s, it’s in the outhouse over there…
I’ve got plenty of ear hair, but it’s my own.
Here in the States, seems people too often play flings (and hornpipes, barndances, highlands, etc.) as reels. Our local sesh tries to remain true to the tunes, but it’s like trying to beat back the ocean waves with a fiddle bow….
Maybe it’s the same thing that flattened all the hornpipes over there? I did manage to find some old players, no longer present, who did put some swing into them, but all the young players ironed them out into reels… At least someone is swinging over there, nice to hear your session is doing so, and playing flings too. Do you ever get to play for dancing with them, or do any flings get danced there?
I suppose your nose hair will have to do as I haven’t managed to find any moles here either…
At least we’re a likely trio of witches, eh? We should be able to cook up something…
It would be very helpful (and considerably more accurate if tunes were noted with common meters used to play them - much like the other known tune names. Then, doing a search for flings in a given key would produce tunes commonly played as flings - but not at the expense of other meters often used for the selected tunes.
That said, the biggest problem I would forsee with this would be the decision rule/authority for "common played as" since most anything has been played as something else by someone somewhere :-) .
Yer like the Witches of Eastwick except for the Voodoo. Yes Ceolachan Im talking to you.
When I looked at the name of the discussion I thought… Ive had a few of them in my life!!!
What if it’s a fling but is called a reel? Like Katy Jones. I’ve heard that as a hornpipe, too. Are you going to discriminate? These tunes have feelings, you know.
http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/Jilson%20Setter%20-%20Dr%20Humphreys%20Jig%201937.mp3 is labeled a jig. Except that it’s actually a Scottish tune called Bob of Fettercairn, it says here.
"Oh they call you the voodoo woman
And I know the reason why
Oh they call you the voodoo woman
Oh and I know-o the reason why
Oh, if you raise up your hands and howl
Don’t you know the sky begins to cry, darlin’ oh now! ~"
Do your wives know that you’re into flings?
"So! [brandishing rolling pin] THIS is what you refer to as a "session"!
Go take Guiness for a walk oldstrings before he pees on the carpet. My wife and I both have an appreciation of flings as a thing to do together, and Dow is a confirmed batchelor (his spelling)… Come on, cruelty to animals, I can hear your poor spaniel whinning now. Such neglect is intolerable… :-)
Coelacanth - You referred repeatedly to ‘highland fling’. As I understand it, from earlier threads, a highland fling is a Scottish Country Dance, danced to a tune which is , structurally, a strathspey.
‘Highland’ is a term used exclusively in Donegal and neighbouring counties for a tune similar in structure to a strathspey. A ‘fling’ is more or less the same thing elsewhere in Ireland. So, ‘highland’ and ‘fling’ are one and the same - unless they’re not.
I thought "fling", "highland" and "highland fling" were the same thing.
Dow’s winding you up, just let him steam over there in the corner himself. He keeps asking the same damned questions when they’ve already been answered a dozen times…or more…
Yes spoon… All three terms were used all over Eire ~ and a few others too ~ highland fling, highland, fling…
You’d better watch it next time you’re out for a swim ladle, I’ll sneak up on you and bite you in the ass. Actually, as a coelacanth, your permutation, I have a bit of poison I could use…
Except that it wasn’t a question, it was a statement, smartarse :-)
Heh, heh, heh! ~ Then, smartarse, why they hell did you start it so smarmy with an "I thought ~ " ? You know, or at least I know, you damned well KNOW… The beer has been tapped, so when are you arriving for the party?
None of that namby pamby commercial North American pee, We’ve a keg in of Young’s "Old Nick", 7.2%, and we’ll be playing in memory of others and kicking up a fuss… I wonder if I can get in one of those bucking bronco things they have in pubs. I’d love to start wagers on how long you’d last out ~ in stages, before alcohol, after the first pint, after the second ~ … Actually we could just go down to one of the schools and do the same thing with a roundabout… ;-) Yee Ha! There goes Dow, where’s my money?
Roundabout. Heh, you’ve just brought back (or brought up?!) a memory from a drunken night in my college days which I’d rather have forgotten :-)
Can anyone give an example of a fling. Is "Some say the devil is dead" one? Flings, Scottisches, Highlands, Barndances - is there an easy way of differentiating between them such as "rashers and sausages" for jigs or "black and decker" for reels?
As an American, I’m partial to
in G at Ryan’s page 69.
But maybe you’re right; it’s not really a fling.
The trouble with flings is that basically, any reel can be a fling, or vice versa, depending on how you swing it and accent the notes. Some of the most spirited musical discussions (as opposed to slagging contests) on this board have been devoted to the type of tunes that are separated from each other by only style and nuance….
LOL. Oh dear poor ‘c.
Here’s homewpormjk for ;c;. Can any 16 bar reel with a different 2nd tome rnfing on rhe b-prt be a fling? rhat’s th question. S?irry I aqm realktyyy really rwealy drunk. Helloi dession.org people/ Heloo.
Oh dear, I seem to recognize that awkward typing that Dow is trying to mimic. Have I revived memories of a particularly spectacular bit of bombast, and a ranting thread that disappeared soon after it showed up on the board? If so, my humble apologies.
No, all those threads exist, those dealing with flings and the relative forms anyway Al… Dow is trying to wind me up but he can’t find his keys or mine… Put your hands straight out to your side and up, point your index finger, keep facing forward. Now, close your eyes and touch your nose… Keep your eyes closed. (Come on Al, let’s get the hell out of here while he’s in ga-ga land…)
No, Al, not all reels make decent flings, but most flings make at least reasonable reels. They are more than just another collection of 16 bars being swung more usually with second endings. For a quick answer, flings have by some been referred to as single hornpipes. They bear more in common with hornpipes and that kind of melodic structure than with reels, but we all know some hornpipes have a secret life as a reel and vice versa…. The footwork for the highland fling and the hornpipe, while there are some distinct steps too, are in their basic forms the same…
The same is not true of reels and flings…
Generally speaking… There are always exceptions and nearlies…
Every time I think I understand things, I find I don’t! So flings can become reels pretty easily, but not necessarily vice versa? Hmmm…..
I have heard what sound like flings played at Scottish festivals while the little girls dance up on their toes with their hands over their head.
But as far as sessions go, flings are not very commonly played around here, I can think of only one guy who will launch into them at sessions occasionally. But, having heard him play tunes like Pigtown Fling and the Keel Row in a flingish manner rather than the reelish manner (which is how others approach them), I wish flings were more common. Must be the call of my Scottish ancestry, drawing me toward those offbeat rhythms.
I just returned from poking around the tunes section looking for flings and such, and found that Mr. c has posted Maggie in the Woods, which I learned as a polka, as a slide. The tune is there, but squeezed into three beat patterns instead of two beat patterns. Aaarrrrggghhh! Now I am more confused than ever. Can these tunes not stay in their appointed categories? They are mutating faster than the monsters in an old horror movie!
"Mr. c", I’m not so sure about that formality Al. Sorry about that cross over that’s confusing you. There’s worse but I won’t direct you there just yet… Someone let slip a mention in the comments for the polka and I remembered playing it as a slide, way back when. I used to play a lot of polkas and slides ~ Kerry and Limerick and Tipperary influences mainly. I had friends of that ilk and also enjoyed dancing to them.
What gave flings their substance and structure and what happened to melodies of flings down the line had to do with the dances that they were played for. Some of these still survive in Clare and elsewhere. I never found a county in Eire where there wasn’t a memory for the tunes and the dances. From the rise of politically motivated Gaelic jingoism and the League at the end of the 1800’s came a disdain for anything that might have an English or European influence, ‘foreign’, and new ‘Irish’ dances were formed from the old, and a few from visiting Martians. These older sources were ostracized, even downright outlawed by some. When these dances declined, in this case flings, the tunes found a rebirth, mostly as single reels. It’s hard to keep a good melody down. Another influence was that damn ‘Dance Hall Act’ of the 1930’s, de Valera fretting over the IRA and wanting to control such things. That drove the music into the pubs, sessions free of dance, song, story telling ~ on the whole, and not necessarily a healthy change of circumstances.
The best understanding you could have of any dance tune, in this case flings, is to learn one of the several dances associated with it, not solo stuff like the Scots dances you mentioned earlier, flings were for a couple, or a threesome or for four. They were also used for larger forms ~ for example the quadrilles (4, 6 and 8 couples)…
The steps and the figures and the structure of the fling dance complement the tune, answer each other beautifully. That’s in part why you’ll catch me slipping in ‘dancing’ with regard to playing an instrument, because the only decent dance music does just that, it dances, and it helps dancers find their way in the dance. Mind you, some are lost no matter how much help you give them. In such cases you just smile and keep your feet out from under theirs…and that’s what a stage was invented for, and in America they even have cages in some places for the musicians… :-/
Oh yeah, the Scots thing, strathspeys and highland flings are kissin’ cousins…same blood line…
Is this like throwing a bone or a Molatov Cocktail? ~ Here ye go Al ol’ buddy, don’t say I never gave you anything ~
Check the comments… ;-)
Thanks for the info, ceolachan! And thanks for the link to the polka, Mairtin O’Connor is one of my favorites, unfortunately almost unknown over here in the US because his CDs have never been distributed in this country (but I have them all via special orders and searching).
This is for you too Al, but not a fling:
Lucky you, Martin O’Connor is a damned fine musician…
this one goes back a fair bit: