A Polite Reminder…

A Polite Reminder…

From the FAQs:

"Can I submit my own compositions?"

Well… The Session isn’t really intended for that. If you do post one of your own compositions, then you must do your "penance", so to speak, by balancing each original composition with about five trad tunes.

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I completely agree with this. original tunes are interesting, but not the reason for the website. But I have a question: I do submit tunes now and then, but I often submit different versions to the comments section of tunes already listed in the database. Does that count for my "penance"as well?

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No Jack. When you have to do penance it will be something hard like having to agree with Will or Dow!
I did get into a bit of strife over a tune submission a long time ago out of ignorance - hadn’t read the rules. It occurred to me then that the best place for submitting your own tunes would be in your bio. Not going to get in anyone’s way there.
The best part of being able to submit self-penned tunes to others is to get that tune to evolve through the playing of others and seeing their take on your idea. Maybe there is a place for a separate website for this.
Personally I now feel that it would be better if none of us submitted our own tunes here, but didn’t always feel that way.

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Possibly something associated with my category ~ dyslexic ~ I started doing the numbers on how the site had evolved, from its early beginnings and waves of contributions, Jeremy working hard to produce a basis, the early years being mostly established tunes and not an intrusive number of compositions ~ to the rise in the self-possessed. Oops, is that a judgement? There have been waves of compositions, but there has also been a growing increase… I love seeing folks inspirations and giving them a try. That isn’t what winds me up, it is the increase in folks contributing their own compositions who haven’t done a damned thing else, and in several instances, when there was one after the other, I did lose it and make comment… Some months over the last couple of years have been notable in the percentage of self-penned contributions…

What doesn’t amaze me is that those who do that, who COMPOSE and submit their compositions, and nothing else, haven’t a bloody clue, seem not only arrogant, but out of touch with the tradition all together. Most of what those sorts submit is twisted and uncomfortable or downright Frankenstein’s monsterish ~ made up of bits from several different tunes that don’t quite make a decent whole. Some are even direct rip-offs. Just changing a note or two or the key doesn’t necessarily constitute ‘new’ or ‘original’…

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa!!!

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Button ~ you contribute, you do you penance, at least on this count… Your ‘other’ takes on tunes, transcriptions given in the ‘Comments’, are valued…

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Member compositions should be seperate from other trad tunes in my opinion. The Tunes section can get clogged up with a load of rubbish otherwise.

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I have not resisted the urge to submit a few personal compositions. I submit others, but the problem is finding Irish ones I know that aren’t already in - practically impossible. So I’ve submitted more Northumbrian and Scottish ones, including waltzes and slow airs. If these are seen as superfluous I’ll stop - and dafydd recently advertised his band’s website welcoming personal compositions: dafydd@dezolder.be, and/or flatlandcannonball.htm

One question I’ve asked Jeremy, but for which I’ve had no reply, is this: should one send in other people’s compositions, which may be under copyright? I’ve sent in the odd Phil Cunningham tune, composed a quarter of a century ago; but what about tunes from say the latest Flook or Sharon Shannon albums, composed very recently?

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Nicholas… if the tunes are recorded on commercially available CDs then anyone can transcribe the tunes into ABC. If you decide to record the tune or sell the transcription you might have someone knocking at your door, but ABC transcriptions on an Internet website for ITM aficionados isn’t threatening anyone’s income.

Personally I hesitate to transcribe too many tunes that are in composer’s published tune books. If they go out of print I might be more likely, but the only time I’ve posted them in here is when someone else posts a different version and I’ll offer the composer’s take in the comments section.

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Thanks, Phantom, that’s clarified that one.

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nicholas said, "…the problem is finding Irish ones I know that aren’t already in - practically impossible."

One way is to look at the Recordings section, see what tunes aren’t already linked, check that they’re /really/ not there, and Bob’s your uncle. I notice on the first page, there’s no link for "Doc Boyd’s Jig" on Swarbrick - I remember writing that one down years ago, so I’ll look it out and see…

The first week’s contributions for 2001 - 2002 / 2006 - 2007

COMP = self-composed and entered
c = someone else’s composition

* 2001 ~ DECEMBER

27th ~ Thursday
460
c - 461

28th ~ Friday
462
c - 463
465
466
467
c - 468
469
470

30th ~ Saturday
471
c - 472

31st ~ Sunday
c - 473

* 2002 ~ JANUARY

1st ~ Monday
474
475
476

2nd ~ Tuesday
477
478

3rd ~ Wednesday
479

Thursday January 4th
480
481
482

* 2006 ~ DECEMBER

27th ~ Wednesday
c - 6547
6548
c - 6550
6551
c - 6552

28th ~ Thursday
c - 6555
COMP - 6556
c - 6557
c - 6558
c - 6559
COMP - 6560
6561

29th ~ Friday
6562
COMP - 6563
COMP - 6564
6565

30th ~ Saturday
COMP - 6566

31st ~ Sunday
6567
6568
6569
6570
c - 6571
6572
c - 6573
6574
COMP - 6575

* 2007 ~ JANUARY

1st ~ Monday
6576
6577

2nd ~ Tuesday
c - 6578
COMP - 6579
c - 6580
6581
c - 6582
c - 6583
6584
6585
COMP - 6586

3rd ~ Wednesday
6587
6588
COMP - 6589
6590
COMP - 6591

4th ~ Thursday / Today
6592
COMP - 6593
I just had to swing the percentage ๐Ÿ˜‰

I had considered a Frankenstein’s monster, but just couldn’t bring myself to that, no punch today…

Those numbers above without ‘c’ or ‘COMP’ are beyond memory in most cases as to where they started their existence…no ‘composer’ is listed or known, though the results are squiff because of that as there are at least three melodies in the last week that might actually qualify for a ‘c’…

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……..someone’s got too much time on his hands !

(ps how do yo

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……..someone’s got too much time on his hands !

(ps how do you do those smiley faces?!)

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"how do you do those smiley faces?!"

I don’t really know, but I bet if you just do it with your keyboard, they’ll automatically become fancy ones. Let’s see:

๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ™

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Domnull, that only took a few minutes… Think of what I could do if I had the whole day? ~ No, on second thought, don’t… ๐Ÿ˜

Here’s the assembly for Nigel’s faces and mine:

: - )
; - )
: - (

I think they work without the nose too. And here’s mine:

: - /

As with all pursuits, practice makes perfect…

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๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ˜

& let’s see if the nose is important, the following without it:

๐Ÿ™‚ ;) :( :/

So you need the nose for #s 2, 3 & 4… There are others…

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This is : - o …

:-o

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Didn’t work. Oh well. It’s easy to see that I haven’t gone back to work yet!

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:- O ๐Ÿ˜ฒ :- D ๐Ÿ˜€

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I wish I’d

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I wish I’d never asked!

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Obviously Nigel yours is pursing its lips to whistle. Sadly, or maybe just as well, you can’t get a kiss here either. Though maybe that’s a raspberry:

:-x :-X

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Too late Domnull, the demon is out…

Hey, why do you keep stutter

ing Domnull…

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Ceol - bit of a glich on my PC today - can’t seem to submit anything (to this site) without a Retry window popping up and a resultant double entry. I’ve been trying also to get a link on the Swarbrick 1 recording (see above) track ‘The Heilanman’ to the tune already

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Ceol - bit of a glich on my PC today - can’t seem to submit anything (to this site) without a Retry window popping up and a resultant double entry. I’ve been trying also to get a link on the Swarbrick 1 recording (see above) track ‘The Heilanman’ to the tune already here "The Hielan’man" - maybe someone would be so good as to link them?!

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"Nicholas… if the tunes are recorded on commercially available CDs then anyone can transcribe the tunes into ABC. If you decide to record the tune or sell the transcription you might have someone knocking at your door, but ABC transcriptions on an Internet website for ITM aficionados isn’t threatening anyone’s income."


All this is true and represents fairly common practice, but isn’t it still a copyright violation to publish the tune anywhere without permission?

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And what penance must be done for posting obviously non-Irish tunes?

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Bob… I think a copyright holder reserves the right to have you cease and desist if they so choose. I seriously doubt anyone involved in ITM will care enough to pursue it though. The worst that can happen would be that Jeremy might have to delete it.

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Such deletion by request or demand has happened here in the past several times already… I try, where possible, to contact the composer and seek permission first…

Damn, who told Geoff we were here? Anyway, you’ve a problem there Geoff, with definitions raising its ugly head again ~ "NON-IRISH" ~ to be or not to be… What happens when, as has often been the case, someone Irish plays or records something from elsewhere, tunes whose origins are from the likes of Quebec, Cape Breton, Scottish, etc…? And in synch with the name for this site, "THE SESSION" ~ that collective noun collects all sorts of stuff, depending on the mix of interests and passions present… The only purist session I’ve ever stumbled across was deluded, they thought they were pure Welsh. I suppose ignorance can be bliss. If they’d but known more than half of what they played would be banned as ‘foreign’? Even in darkest Donegal and Fermanagh and elsewhere in Eire there were the borrowings, a hell of a lot from our Scottish brothers and sisters… Mind you, the most obvious discomfort and ill fit was from the ‘new’ compositions… ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Several times? Are you sure?

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So……… I’ve written 5 or 6 tunes of my own and I’d be interested to see how other folks might take to them.

There ought to be a ‘home-grown tune’ website somewhere maybe?

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Session member dafydd who lives in Belgium, at dafydd@dezolder.be and flatlandcannonball.htm , actively invites new tunes. Don’t know what becomes of them. Send him one now, and it might win Denmark the Eurovision Song Contest in six years’ time - bread upon the waters, and all that.

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Maybe it would be possible to create a new section for compo in this website. But I agree that when I go in the tunes section, I expect to see tunes that are fairly established in the musical tradition. It might not be the best place to "test" what other musicians think of your compos. If you want to get comments, play it to you musical friends, nothing stop you from recording and publishing them. You can also publish your tunes on your own website and give the link in this website…

Anyhow, this is a good occasion to remind people to respect the ratio of 5 trad tunes for one compo.

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Button, in a couple of cases, the composer later let the tune remain, as long as the information on copyright and composer credit were clear and listed. I can only remember one specific example where this happened, "Ashokan Farewell"… But yes, I do remember at least a couple of other times where on request the tune was removed.

If there is an existing copyright on anything I submit, and I know about it, I try to give some information, such as SOCAN for Cape Breton compositions, and a link, just in case, but always the composer’s name if known. Some other compositions I’ve given were done without approval because the composer was long dead or I had no luck contacting them after making a few tries. I credit everything I have any knowledge of…

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With all the Fantastic new tunes out there by composers such as Niall valelly, Brian Finnegan, Tola Custy, Diarmad Moyihan, Colin Farrell, etc etc it seems such a shame to say ‘I expect to see tunes that are fairly established in the tradition’ - They may not be established right this second - but it’ll only be a matter of time - as those lads are amazing muscians/composers who are steeped and grew up in the tradition and who are composing their own tunes that happen to be amazing. Even if they arent your cuppa tea - I think there is still deffo room for them on this site.

Posted by .

Re: A Polite Reminder…an update on the previous data ๐Ÿ˜‰

Thursday December 27th 2001 - Thursday January 4th 2002
80% ~ Trad = 20
20% ~ Compositions = 5 (no self-composed entries)

Wednesday December 27th 2006 - Thursday January 4th 2007
45% ~ Trad = 22
55% ~ Compositions = 26 (12 are self-composed entries)

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I agree with you bb that we might miss some very good tunes and "fairly established" might be a bit heavy. I have absoutely no objection to see new tunes and welcome them if someone submit 5 trad tunes for one of his composition. That means that this person know a bit about the music tradition and ethic. Some people have only compo submitted (they can be very good compo). From what I understand this is not a website to test or publish all your compo. Plus, the well experienced composers anchored in the tradition usually record and publish their tunes. Then people listen to them, like them and put them on this website.

Maybe some day I will put some of my own, but I am not there yet.

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It is a basic consideration and a matter of respect ~ and I have never seen it as penance… I love the music too much for that… ๐Ÿ™‚

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I think I’m running, at a conservative estimate, at least 10 to 1…

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I write a lot of tunes. I think they’re mostly pretty good. I play them quite a bit in gigs. But I don’t play them in sessions, and I wouldn’t (I don’t think) publish them here. I’d just think that was arrogant.

There is one of my compositions that has gone around the world. I won’t say what it is, because it’s a well-known tune and it’s always credited to someone else, who is supposed to have written it in the same place and at the same time as I actually wrote it. No way am I going to correct that publicly, because that man in question (a) as far as I know didn’t claim it himself, it was just attributed to him; (b) was always a much better player than I am ever likely to be; (c) is famous … and dead.

I’m quite proud (inwardly) that my tune has gone around the world, but it’s done so all by itself. I’ve done nothing to promote it, and I think that’s right.

Self-promotion doesn’t sit right with me. But I would very much welcome a separate section for ‘own compositions’ so that people who are composing could swap both tunes and ideas. Personally, I’d rather that was a section on this site rather than elsewhere, as I have come to trust this site.

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I’m not saying that you should put all your own comps on and nothing else. More that if you learn some new crazy tunes off recordings of people that you like - ie - the above mentioned musicians - and then you yourself put them up (as long as there are no objections from said musicians) then I think that is fine. It isnt like them coming on here and putting up their tunes, its other people learning their tunes and then putting them up. As has been mentioned before - in 20 years even the craziest tunes around today will sound trad.
Just like when Matt Molloy started playing in the new style way back when and putting in crans etc which was unheard of at the time and now - he is one of the tradest sounding flute players there is…..

Posted by .

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Mysteriously, one of our more prolific resident composers - Dow - is silent on this thread, just when we want him.

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Dow is travelling - on his way to the UK….via Japan.

Posted by .

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It’s obvious that one cannot differentiate between "trad" tunes and tunes where you are aware of their origin. The only difference is, of course, the origin is known.

Submitting self penned, however, is a different kettle of fish, as we know.

I agree with those above that a self penned separate section would solve the problem. Though it I pity the soul that has to trawl through the already there to reclassify it.

(However, and I hold my hands up, I can’t talk ‘cause I don’t do the tunes section. I don’t think that sharing music with strangers by writing it down is a good idea. I don’t mind talking about it. People who know what they are talking about get it. And I don’t care about people who don’t get it. But the problem with the tunes section is that the people who don’t get it still think they can glean a lot of information about this music from the tunes section. They can’t)

Posted .

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Ben writes: "There is one of my compositions that has gone around the world. I won’t say what it is, because it’s a well-known tune and it’s always credited to someone else, who is supposed to have written it in the same place and at the same time as I actually wrote it. No way am I going to correct that publicly, because that man in question (a) as far as I know didn’t claim it himself, it was just attributed to him; (b) was always a much better player than I am ever likely to be; (c) is famous … and dead."

At the funeral for Willy Coleman, as they unveiled the gravestone with "Willy Coleman’s Jig" on it, Martin Wynne leaned over and whispered quietly to Sonny McDonough, "I wrote that tune actually." How do I know this? Sonny told me that himself.

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"c" writes: "I can only remember one specific example where this happened, "Ashokan Farewell"… But yes, I do remember at least a couple of other times where on request the tune was removed."

Hmmm… ok… a few times at best then. Out of 6,595 tunes that’s very insignificant. I think being given credit is what most composers would be interested in. I really don’t think we need to contact them and get permission every time we post a tune in the database though.

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Six thousand tunes was the figure generally quoted as a guesstimate of the number of Irish dance tunes in existence…no wonder I’m finding it hard to find new ones to put in. And I’ve got addicted to the magic of seeing abc’s turn into sheet music and midi…

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Jack / Button ~ I know ~ insignificant ~ in the conext of the mass of tunes out there. On seeking permission, that’s just something I put on myself, a courtesy, and I don’t think it is a bad one, but it isn’t an easy thing to do and I can understand folks that don’t bother with trying, or may not know how to go about it. It is just something I’d like to be able to do, check with the source and even see if I have a reasonable facsimile of what inspiration came on them…

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On this thing about numbers, when I was last at the Irish Folklore Commission’s offices they had it figured at in excess of 10,000. As far as recordings and versions I’d accept infinite…

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It seems we have stepped beyond nigel’s intention of ‘polite’ and into judgement, which some categorize as one of the symptoms of arrogance…

Having given that short 8 day comparison previously, detailed and then by percentage, I was admitting and illustrating the rise in self-promotion, if that is what we’re calling it, in particular submitting own compositions without doing anything else… But the process is natural too. Once you have accumulated the greater mass of common and standard tunes the next step is to enter versions and variations in the ‘Comments’, and of course, the rarer and newer tunes, the compositions. I still think it is easy to honour the webmaster’s request to do what some call penance, to enter at least 5 tunes outside of your own inspirations….

‘benhall.1’ paints all such contributions as arrogance and contributors as arrogant… It is my experience that ‘arrogance’ is not always something so ‘obvious’. Myself, I hesitate using that condemnation loosely, though know the temptation. I fully understand the excitement and passion of music and how it can take you over and for me often gives gifts that I have great difficulty claiming as my own. It is an amazing magic that so much can be done with so few notes in infinite variety. Music, pre-existing and rearranged and in all shapes and ways comes on me regularly, in all sorts of situations. It has been my companion through all kinds of emotions, joys, sorrows and accomplishments and tribulations. Maybe submitting several self-compositions in a row is arrogance, but I don’t know those people who have done that, so I can’t say it was necessarily an act of arrogance? I’ve never looked specifically for arrogance or felt it in your average submissions from others on site here.

The joy of openness is also freedom of choice, to ignore or extole a ‘new’ composition ~ to choose what you want in your repertoire and to ignore what you don’t want. That is the nature of this site. No one is forcing us to play or consider everything that finds its way here. In general there is no tyranny saying you have to give any time to something you find disagreeable or choose to damn as ‘arrogance’… Arrogance hides in all kinds of ways and expresses itself in more harsh ways than the submission of someones musical inspirations. I think Jeremy’s basic request for consideration, as outlined at the beginning of this thread, is good. Most folks do not contribute their own compositions, and most of those who do respect and honour the webmaster’s request… I’ve enjoyed some of those new compositions, sometimes just for the moment, and some have been so bad that I got a good laugh from them… Laughter has high value here… The ones that have narced me the most were actually bad transcriptions of old standards. But hey, there’s the ‘Comments’ section…

I have experienced arrogance in others, and I have slipped into it enough to know I am uncomfortable with it, I don’t like it and do my damnedest to avoid it, and to work against it in myself, and to give respect and consideration where due. I can honestly say I have never submitted a tune because I wanted kudoes for it, whether a tune that is long established, by a composer other than myself, or that dropped out of the ether and took hold of me… If anything I take a more ancient Greek approach to it, seeing it as a gift given, natural if anything, not something to swell my head or make me prideful or to take for granted… If it makes me smile or takes my heart I sometimes, not always, jot it down, and then sometimes give it a place here, but only if it makes me want to dance. It is nice if someone adds it to their tunebook, that does make me smile, and I hope it gives them some pleasure, as it has me. I don’t feel I own it, but more that it owns me, if it is unfamiliar or comes on me with a person or thing in mind, I usually dedicate it by title, not always obvious. If it turns out to have ‘origins’ or relatives, that makes me laugh, that makes me happy. I would prefer it has connections…

A self-penned section is a bit like the argument for seperate sections for marches and flings and airs and ~ … What does it really solve? It increases the number of categories. The self-penned items on site here are usually already tagged, in most cases the person who the inspiration came to has claimed responsibility for them. When they haven’t, that makes me a bit sad, though after playing some of them I can understand. Fortunately there are very few of these orphans on site. There is some perverse pleasure gained here when I see some dog of a composition that has a ‘0’, but there is some sadness there too. I love to see folks obsessed and inspired by this music, even if the results are questionable… I just hope the number of questionables remains in the minority here…

By the way, Dow is on his way here. I’m expecting him any moment… By benhall.1’s judgement that should mean a nuclear explosion of arrogance… ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Ceolachan

I very much respect your views, not least since you have been helpful to me directly, and also, I can’t help noticing, to many others, and I admire you for it.

So, I accept your implied criticism of what I said. Having said that, I still wouldn’t feel right about what I would see as ‘pushing’ myself onto others if I were to post my tunes here, or play them in a session context unless specifically asked.

I *have* been kown to play ‘new’ tunes in sessions and have even been asked to play them on subsequent occasions. However, these have been tunes composed by others.

Perhaps it’s just the way I feel, and I take your point that I shouldn’t expect other people to feel the same way necessarily, or impute some sort of motive if they do. But, for me, playing my own tunes in a session or publishing them on this site would still feel like self-promotion.

(Mind, I’m getting perilously close to telling myself to ‘lighten up’ at this point …)

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Ben — Fair enough, but how would one ever get to the point that anyone would ask for a tune you composed yourself if you never play them? Surely these people will have had prior knowledge of your tune before asking.

I will occasionally ask folks for tunes they penned, but I’m sure there are people whom I’ve never asked simply because I’ve never heard that they ventured to do such things. I have offered tunes I composed at sessions on very rare occasion, but I wouldn’t consider it "self-promotion" unless I did it all the time.

As for publishing them here, I make a link from my profile page to the tunes I composed in case anyone’s interested in that sort of thing. But I don’t consider that as "self-promotion." I just see it as an additional creative interest people have. If you had posted the tune you wrote that is now attributed to a famous dead musician then there wouldn’t be confusion over it now. That’s not self-promotion is it, to have the facts?

However, as it relates to this thread, posting mostly your own tunes or joining the website and posting one of your own tunes as your first contribution is definitely self-promotion I think.

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PB - actually I have been specifically asked for ‘one of your own tunes’. Interestingly, only in Ireland, and it’s happened on several occasions, and each time the people involved have had no reason at all even to suspect that I might have written anything. I’ve found the experience odd, to say the least.

Round my way, the only thing like that that’s happened to me is that a couple of tunes that happen to be mine are sometimes played, but nobody knows they’re mine - one actually irritates me, because it’s been proclaimed as written by someone I know who knows perfectly well that he stole it; and the way that tune ‘escaped’ so to speak, is that I was playing it privately with friends, and one of them started it going, unbeknownst to me, in a session about 50 miles away from where I was living at the time. As I don’t like it, the eejit who nicked it is welcome to it …

And, by the way, in case I haven’t been clear before, I’m only saying that *I* am uncomfortable with playing my own tunes in sessions or posting them here; I’m not necessarily saying that others should be, although I admit, when people do it too much (and who’s the arbiter of that, I hear you say?) then I do start to get judgmental.

Also, I have, as I implied before, absolutely no qualms whasoever about playing my own stuff in gigs. Different isn’t it?

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Ben — I also play my own tunes at "gigs," but not everyone has that outlet. Unless you asked everyone outright if they have any tunes they wrote, no one will ever know unless they volunteer it at some point.

How would the folks in Ireland know you compose tunes? Do you have CDs out, or do you know people over there that happened to hear your tunes at a "gig" or some such thing? I’ve played a lot of sessions over the years in Ireland and can’t recall ever being asked to play tunes I wrote.

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Whic parts of Ireland? ‘Cos I’ve found it happens in the more rural and more westerly areas, especially, for some reason, in Sligo.

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I’ve spent a lot of time in Sligo, in areas like Gurteen mostly, but in Sligo town as well. I did play a tune I wrote about the snaps between Boyle and Gurteen for some folks at a session in Gurteen once — but I volunteered it. They would never had heard it if I waited to be asked. Mae Hernon, (PJ Hernon’s wife,) ended up giving it the title it has today.

I’ve also spent considerable time in Ennis and the surrounding areas and was only asked once by Josephine Marsh when she invited me to do a session with her. She was playing a few of her own compositions and then asked if I had any. Other than that I’ve never been asked.

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I’m really interested in this discussion … but I’m off to a session now - 45 miles on roads that mean it will take about an hour and a half … each way … must be mad …

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I’m just off, sorry this is ‘quick’ ~ I’d ask you behall.1 ~ to hear your tunes, but I take your point, that would most likely be in different situation, like on a beach with a bonfire, at a house, maybe just the two of us. I never see compositions, even some of the dreadful ones, as being ‘imposed’ on me… But as you’ve said ~ that’s just me…

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Tell you what, ceol, I’ll pop over some time this year and we can swap. The bonfire sounds good, especially if there’s plenty of whiskey to go with it - I’ll bring that, if you like.

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I’m just back… Nice offer benhall.1… So, how about some of those tune a la ABCs? I’m especially curious about the world traveler. I can promise you, seriously, I will end up playing any ABCs, within reason, you send me, and I’ll even give the unreasonable ones a try…

So what’s your estimation of tonight’s (last night’s) session? I think the bodhran players were a bit flat… ๐Ÿ˜‰

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I can see us now, down on Blackpool beach being arrested for burning a load of their lounge chairs, all in a big pile up against the North dock’s supporting pier… I hope you can swim…

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Yes, as a matter of fact, it was …

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ceol - I’ll e-mail you, when I get some energy back … u’d have to promise not to publish any of them here of course! ๐Ÿ™‚

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What about them, David?

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I was at the Plume alright. Whereabouts were you, David?

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You know that much about me, I’m the crazy one that tries to track down the composer before submitting their work…

Have you two been meeting behind my back what?!!? & benhall.1???

Dow is heading your way next week… Be on your guard…

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David, Ben: unfortunately I wasn’t able to be at the Plume last night, otherwise I’d have introduced you to each other.
Was Gavin there? - he’s fairly regular at the Friday sessions.

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"The Plume of Feathers" eh? If we had a pub by that name here in SF it wouldn’t attract your typical ITM sessioniers.

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I *was* the chap who played Gusty’s

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The 9-parter?

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9 parts? No - the version I have is just 4. I got it from Clare, from some chap who was down from Donegal. The version is have is the same as the one on ‘Fiddlesticks’. But I’ve just looked it up in O’Neills, where it’s listed as ‘Gurty’s Frolics’ and I can see there are 9 parts in there alright. (My version is similar, but not quite the same, as the 4-part version in the tunes section here.)

Hmm ah well, I like my 4 part version. Interesting, this business of number of parts, isn’t it? I have a 6-part, as opposed to 5-part, version of Kid on the Mountain, but I’ve had to accept that no-one will ever play the sixth part. (And I see from the comments in the tune section that O’Neills has the longer version of that also.)

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If Dow has been in Japan and is coming your way, he’s probably learned how to chop a bouzouki in half with his hand; be afraid, be very afraid…

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C, if you go to the Plume of Feathers in Bristol on a Monday you’ll be on your own! The former Monday session there moved to The Lion in Clifton because of a change in management about a year ago. There’s a flight of steps immediately opposite the Plume. Go up ‘em (all 80-odd) then up 50 yards of a 1 in 6 and you’ll see The Lion on a corner on your left. You can then collapse gracefully or otherwise at the bar ๐Ÿ™‚
There’s a session on alternate Fridays at the Plume (that’s the one I missed last Friday), and the next one will be 19th January at 8.30.

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Phantom, "Plume of Feathers" in England refers to the coat of arms of The Prince of Wales (motto "Ich dien"), and there is a plaster depiction of it on the wall inside.
I can’t quite work out the sub-text of your SF comment ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Trevor, it has the same meaning in Spain. Any reference to plumes and feathers attracts the more excentrically artistic elements of society, ร  la Quentin Crisp.
Mind you, there may well be IT musicians among them.

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Ben, I play that 6th part of Kid on the Mountain, but I put it inas the 3rd part before playing what everyone else has as the 3rd part.

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As for the sub-text, Trevor, let’s just say there are times in certain neighborhoods here where plumes of feathers are considered fashionable. But just like with wildlife — only the male of the species seems to have them.

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David, I don’t recall saying or implying that they’re "bigots." What are "typical ITM sessioneers" like in your neck of the woods?

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What I meant by that was simply that if there were a pub in this city with that name it would most likely attract a clientele that isn’t known for their interest in ITM. That in no way suggests ITM sessioneers are "bigots."

Tell me, David, are there many Irish sessions at gay bars in your neck of the woods? Are there many gay bars at all? San Francisco, as you probably already know, has a reputation for having a strong gay community. This doesn’t bother me in the slightest, and I have a good few friends that happen to be gay. I’ve lived here for over 20 years and have moved way beyond worrying about whether or not I’m "PC" around my friends who are gay since their sense of humor seems to be well intact. The only place where the line is drawn is if you begin to refer to them in derogatory or insulting ways, neither of which I did on this thread.

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Stop the bitching ‘lads’ ~ makeup and lets all have a hug… ๐Ÿ˜‰

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My first experience of SF was rolling in with the fog, crossing the Golden Gate Bridge on foot and stumbling into the park and immediately being greeted from the grass by a voice that lead to us holding an hour long discussion ~ the voice of hello belonging to some lovely young lady doing yoga in the nude…

Sadly, I imagine things have moved on and the place has changed…

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Well… I don’t know about nude yoga in the park, but in the spring the people in my neighborhood do just about everything in the nude on their rooftops. How do I know? I just so happen to have a view that looks out over the rooftops. ๐Ÿ˜›

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One of our sessions in Bristol is at a bikers’ pub. No problem. These guys are the salt of the earth.

[Former member of the Norton Owner’s Club]

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I have always loved the old Norton’s, having only had the pleasure of riding one, never owning one, ‘ball crushers’ some folks used to call them…

If anyone stumbles across this discussion in a search, it continued a bit more than a week later, same perpetrator, but a perpetual issue:

Discussion: "Tunes Section"
# Posted on February 14th 2007 by nigelg
https://thesession.org/discussions/12697

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I have composed a number of tunes, however have not submitted any to this site. Several of these tunes have been recorded by me mostly with a trad band I play with. My reason for looking into this discussion was by way of looking for a forum whereby composers could collaborate or review tunes and promote this tradition into the next generation. After all, someone composed these tunes we all play albeit they may be a couple hundred years old. It’s like a violin making friend of mine is fond of saying, "Stradivarius made new violins".