Button Accordion Bass

Last Night I was at a session full of Box Players.I Noticed only a few used the Bass Buttons.Im curious……Do You play the Bass or Not?

I Play them

I’ve would say most play them, but in sessions with accompaniment (guitar, bouzouki or whatever), most players don’t use them. It can be distracting for the accompanist (I’ve heard).

There are some great players that don’t use them at all, you have Johnny O’Leary and Derk Hickey (well never seen them used basses)

Used properly, they add marvellously to slow airs. Listen to how good BC players do this, on albums and in real life. (I take it you play BC).

“It can be distracting for the accompanist (I’ve heard).”
It’s probably more accurate to say that box players ( at least all the ones I know ) have a limited, or unimaginative approach to accompaniment using the bass. Come to think of it, accompanists playing melody or counter melody sometimes has a similar effect on the box player. When a loud box is forcing certain chords it makes it impossible to vary the accompaniment in a group. It’s the same thing when two accompanists have a different take on where a tune ought to be going.
Bass should be used sparingly , (preferably at home) by box players.

Not a BC player (I play a DG), I imagine BC basses can be used to punctuate a tune rather like the regulators on Uilleann pipes; but I don’t know if pipers, BC players or accompanists would endorse this comparison.

A B/C Bass system is sometimes limited.This isnt the case with C#/D.You cane get great chords out of a C#/D Box.Then again Joe Burke has a totalty different system.

I have a 16-bass system that I use a lot more at home than at sessions, especially when I stray away from ITM. I agree that the lighter touch is preferable in a group.
I wish John Williams came up with a tutorial for the bass side. He’s a true master. There isn’t much help out there for box players who want to improve their bass side. The most comprehensive approach I have found so far is Yann Dour’s methode pour accordeon diatonique. It’s bilingual and designed mostly for quint box players, but it’s a great source.

Keep in mind that John Williams uses a custom bass setup. He has the same note on the press/draw, except for the one set of C/F. At least that is what’s on his 2 1/2 row box.

I’ve got my C/F tuned to D/F so there is a D on the press. I have to use 2 different pairs of buttons for the D.

www.red-bean.com/~noel/keyboard-layouts/basses/LAYOUTS.html - 15k -

Use the bass sparingly

Bad link, see if this one works. 🙂

http://www.red-bean.com/~noel/keyboard-layouts/basses/LAYOUTS.html

I use the basses and vamps on my D/G, probably gratuitously so. They add a lot, I think.

Backer,

The reason box players tend to unimaginative chord selection is they have a pretty restricted choice of chords!

John Williams does an excellent demonstration of the Uilleann pipe simulating accompaniment to Saddle The Pony on his Homespun Tapes tutorial DVD. In that case I think he’s using a Saltarelle borrowed from one of his students, which I presume has one of the ‘standard’ bass setups (I could be wrong - it’s a few years since I saw it and he does change boxes half way through the tutorial). It’s truly inspired, and I totally agree with pennhorse - his is the best BC tutorial I’ve seen, and he does by far the best left hand work. I’d buy that DVD like a shot! That’s exactly how I want my accompaniment to sound.

I find my Mengascini bass setup isn’t too conducive to good bass work, but I don’t want to lose the box for a month while someone sets up the bases for me 🙁

I was thinking of getting the Joe Burke setup - a friend ordered his new box direct from the manufacturer with this setup and he’s very pleased with it.

And dinn2 - I only know one box player locally who uses the bass, and that’s when he’s accompanying songs, not for tune work.

If you’re looking for a nice example of ‘traditional’ bass technique, look up Tony McMahon’s ‘Ships Are Sailing’ clip on youtube. I love watching it just for his expression, the way you can tell he’s really getting into the music, and the fact it’s obviously recorded in someone’s front room… on, and the fact he’s a brilliant musician as well 🙂

bc_box_player, that great video was removed because it was in infringement of copyright laws.

In response to the topic, there are really three types of box players (IMO). There’s the type who doesn’t use bass at all. There’s the type that uses bass simply to keep time ie. they don’t care what note they’re playing and it almost always sounds awful. And finally there’s the type that uses basses simply to enhance their rhythm. In this third category I would put John Williams and Billy McComiskey (and many others, but I just picked some as an example). Their notes usually are consonant with the melody but their purpose is not harmonic, it’s rhythmic.
I’m talking about for tunes here. For Aires it’s different altogether.

That’s a real shame, kjay. It was one of the best I’ve found for weeks. Just goes to show you need to spend time trawling every week or so - or at least that’s how I justify it to my better half 😉

And I totally agree about the tuneless time tappers - some people seem oblivious to the noise they’re making. You forgot the ‘silent’ tappers who look like they are playing the basses, but if you get close enough you realise they’re just waving their fingers over the buttons.

I have to disagree about John Williams, though - his accompaniment is more than just rhythm. I’m not sure about Mr McComiskey as I haven’t knowingly heard him play (I presume he’s based in the States?). I’m sure lots of people here will be able to set you right if I can’t!

Billy McComiskey is a superb player, but let’s say I like John Williams’s bass better, it’s right on.
Somebody else worth mentioning, who doesn’t get enough credit, is Bobby Gardiner whose bass playing has evolved after working closely with guitarists, as I recall.

Playing bass accompaniment on a button accordion is not easy. It requires an understanding of harmonic composition, a lot of skill controlling air entry to the bellows and the ability to hit the buttons when the bellows are in the right direction (press/draw) relative to the melody notes.The faster the tune, the more difficult it is, hence the more frequently heard accompaniment of basses to slow aires.

A button accordion (single action/diatonic) cannot be compared to a piano accordion in this regard. Button boxes are limited in the basses due to the nature of the instrument while piano accordions are capable of complex, sophisticated harmonies in the hands of a skilled player.

‘Waving’ one’s fingers over the notes is a natural reaction to the back and forth movements of the belows and a continuation of the necessary hand movements.

In regards to the 3 types of box players re: bass playing.

Shouldn’t there actually be a 4th?
What about the ‘harmonic’ bass players who, regardless of the limitations, through in a bass note or chord typically on the ‘strong’ beats or home notes. More of a free spirited trad. sound methinks and rather like the opposite of vamping.
Very similar to harmonizing a melody on the keyboard where a melody note can be replaced with a chord or the next lower note in the chord added to the melody note to thicken it up a bit I suppose.

re: limitations BA

Why hasn’t somebody gone nuts over this and stuck the bass end of a 12 bass/row PA onto a BA?
Yea, overkill, I know, but the bloody bass would BE there if you want to use it!

Chellam - mainly because they’re a different size and shape. Plus you’d need one tuned to match your treble reeds.

Mind you, I’ve heard of lots of people going the other way and removing the basses from their PA to make it lighter.

bc_box_player

…I think human ingenuity and craftmanship could overcome both problems you mention…

Anyway, the general idea of what I’m saying is to try to overcome the limitations of the BA .
Look at Jack Daley’s 2 1/2 row bass setup giving the I, IV, and V (D)note/chord on either the push or the pull.

Such setups obviously are in the direction of the choice of basses offered on the PA and such a setup would allow for minimal ‘chording’ of a melody at least.

As to people removing basses from their PA to make it lighter, they should surely improve their diet and exercise more so as to become strong enough to handle a burdensome 2.5 kgs [sic].

2.5 kgs? And the rest….even the little 60 bass 3 octave I bought the other day weighs twice as much as my button box, is twice the size and produces half the volume.

The bottom line is that the bisonic nature of the button box makes for punchier sound and helps to emphasise rhythm, which does not sit well with sustained chords. I’m sure it’s been tried, but I’m also sure it sounded like cr@p.

Mind you, I’d love to know who decided the bass layout on my box…

If you’re putting Billy McComiskey in that third group, you should listen to his recordings again. Billy’s bass playing is the height of accordion musicality. The rhythm is excellent, yes, but Billy’s use of secondary dominants to push a harmonic progression is incomparibly well-concieved. His hands are entirely conscious of one another. Seriously, guys…

bc_box_player
I don’t really think anybody is taking BA bass addition to be adding ‘sustained’ chords. I think you’re probably right on your assessment of that sound in that case.
But, as already discussed, correctly done, bass playing can enhance both the rhythm and harmony of a tune.
…take a look at the ‘evolution’ of the old ‘useless’ bass layout of the old Hohners and follow it through the PS layout, then the JB layout, right up to the JW 2 1/2 row layout which makes harmonic sense for the major keys most often played.
Of course, the old Hohner B/C bass layout made some sense too for what it was designed to be, single row playing in the key of the row …until somebody decided to play in D across the rows and found no useful bass at all except the pull on buttons 3 & 4!

Leave B/C bass to theorists. If you play B/C, especially when in company with bouzoukis and the like, forget the bass for all but slow airs.

Apart from any melodic or harmonic considerations, the basses bleed so much air from the bellows you lose the pulse from the melody when you use them.

I’ve often thought that on G/D boxes (which I used to play) where basses really work well for most tunes, you drive the proceedings with the left hand and add the melody almost as an afterthought.

The only Irish box player whose bass playing made any sense to me is Connor Keane - but I don’t know what sort of box he plays.

Conor Keane plays C#/D

Martin Quinn’s bass playing, in my opinion, is superior to John Willams’ and about on par with McComiskeys. Quinn’s is a perfect mix of musicality and rythmic punchyness. When I learn tunes from his playing I with my fiddle had a bass side.

Quote: “Why hasn’t somebody gone nuts over this and stuck the bass end of a 12 bass/row PA onto a BA? ”

They have, Chellam, they have. Scotland’s Jimmy Shand played and AFAIK invented the 3-row B/C/C# box with stradella (PA) bass.

The problem is surely that a PA-type bass end is too heavy for a box where you’re changing bellows direction every few notes and in some passages every single note. The B/C/C# system allows sufficient cross-rowing to make the weight of a a PA-type bass end tolerable. Also, any other bass system on a box like that would be far too restrictive in terms of the keys you could accompany.

This system still has exponents in Scotland and even England (e.g. John Kirkpatrick) and probably a mere handful of surviving players in Ireland. But it was quite popular at one time, to judge from old photos of ceili bands.

I use them sparingly, piper style, mostly on aires (I have enough trouble with the melody on dance tunes at this point). But where I do work them in, people do like them and comment on them.

I have the Joe Burke Set up on my B/C. Much better than the standard bass setup for those of us who did not start on button.

Really give a great deal of flexibility. My problem as a PA player before taking up button is the touch which I think someone mentioned earlier.

Learning to be light touch. Having too much bass on the button you can overwhelm the tune

I like using em for solo and unaccompanied group stuff… I think you can really add some drive with it!

The bass notes on Caoineadh an Spailpin by Eamon De Buitlear on button key with Ceoltoiri Chualann forom Playboy of the Western World are so effective 1962 as is his bass on the air Spailpin a Ruin from Reacaireacht an Riadaigh around the same era. No doubt, Sean O Riada was behind it all. Tony McMahon plays effective bass on airs, jigs, hornpipes and reels. He is the best button key player to use bass regularly.