Playing a roll on D …

Playing a roll on D …

Hi everyone, I’m new here and I was just wondering if it’s possible to play a roll on D. (I mean the lower one - 6 covered holes and without blowing much - I’m not really good in french music theory so I let you imagine in the english one).

So, cut on E and then tap on … on what ? Here is my question.
There is an example in The Hare in the Corn from Planxty(https://thesession.org/tunes/1736/details) on the fourth bar (last note).
Until now I’ve been doing 2 cuts on E, and I can’t think to any other trick …

Thanks for your consideration.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

I understand that it isn’t possible to play a roll per say on the d, but you could cut twice with different fingers, or go for a cran - the whistlers and pipers will be able to give you more information.

Bon courage de Nantes !

Allan

Re: Playing a roll on D …

For those mad enough ~ it can be done, a roll on D, on a whistle, as you’d need a really long little finger to do it on a flute, by doing the ‘tip’ by slapping the open hole of the instrument with the little finger…

Re: Playing a roll on D …

On whistle, I would play the fourth bar of the first part of The Hare In The Corn as follows:

A/ G/ F#/
| F# (3 D D D) D2 A |

- the upper row of notes being the grace notes of a cran. That’s how I learnt it, but I don’t know if it’s the best or the "correct" way to do a cran.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

The printing of my last post has scrambled up the order in which I typed the notes - each note in the upper row is meant to precede one of the D’s:

A/ D G/ D F#/ D

Playing a ___ {CRAN} on D …

Reinventing the cran I see.
You still cannot beat ceolachan’s bottom hole strike.
Crans take a bit of practice to get a good sound.
Basically it is a series of cuts … start with 2 fingers slowly & work up to 3. You can also practice E crans.

Posted by .

M.Molloy

Thanks for posting the ‘Bucks of Oranmore’
I was watching that one earlier & another clip with Liam O’Flynn … but you have go 3’40" ~ after all the singing.
I still do not know how to copy YouTube video &/or audio.
c. knows how.

Posted by .

Re: Playing a roll on D …

If you are around Angers end of Feb begining of March Tooty herself will be able to show you the Cran if you want .

Re: Playing a roll on D …

My fliuit book says to do a crann cut with the G finger, then the E finger then the F# finger. Seems to take a lot of practice to get it right. I can’t do it yet.

I think for a D roll you could take one of those cuts out. I can almost do that sometimes.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

TheMuse - copy the url of a youtube video and paste it into the field indicated at vixy.net. Select the kind of file you’d like, click, and bob’s yer uncle. The site is popular so it might take a few tries at peak hours.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

Thanks for all these advices, I’ll train myself doing crans (I didn’t know this ornementation) and see what I can get of it.
Thanks.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

Who’s Liam?

Anyway, back on topic… Beware hard fast rules on Crans, as to what finger when. There are several ways with it and inclinations. The one pretty consistent thing of importance is, along with cuts, tips and rolls ~ DO NOT PLAY A NOTE!!! It should be so quick that it’s at most a bubble bursting from sparkling wine, and the note being subjected to it, that quick interuption, is the wine. It is the wine you want to taste, and the bubbles are just a pleasant part of that experience, for their moment.

The interuptions, the ‘bubbles’ in a Cran, the ‘cuts’ ~ imagine you have your fingers held down to the instrument, whistle or flute, with a strong elastic (rubber) band, you can barely move them they are that down, and then you try to lift a finger and it "SNAPS" back down on to the hole it covers. The sound that produces should be just that, a "snap", or "pop", ever so small, a "bubble" of noise that you can’t quite hear enough of to say what pitch it is ~ it isn’t! ~ it’s a "pip!" or "pop"… The further up you are from the primary note, in this case ‘D’, the more it starts to sound like a ‘bark’, a sharper (higher pitched) "pip!" To really be silly, we could say on the E it is a "pop!", on the F it is a "pap!", and on the G or A it is a "pip!" or "parp!" ~

Now I’m in the swing of madness and this is better than aspirin, I will continue with the pop-pap-pip example. First, it is better to practice all this s—-l—-o—-w—-l—-y ~ with putting your focus on making those quickly executed bubbles, listening for that difference. As always, it is best to ask and have someone show you, or give you a little time to become familiar with the sound of an audio bubble burst on a wine, in this case, in D… Back to the pops, paps and pips ~

So, you play a good and in control D ~ and let it ride out ~ now practice a cut, whatever finger you please, but lets start practicing the E cut, the "pop!" Get it nice and crisp.

Next finger up and give it a go for awhile until you have it crisp. Do the same for the rest.

NOTE: you know that finger next to your little finger, down it is D, up it is E, and while we’re on it, also the same on the other hand, the one when down is a G and when up is an A ~ that finger, if you haven’t already noticed, is the least flexible, has a shorter tendon. It’s just something about nature and evolution. It can do with extra training and exercise, learning to move it independantly from the others. Go on, try it if you don’t believe me ~ move each finger to see. Anyway, a simple exercise, shake our your hands, relax them and place your hands palm down on a table, in a natural and relaxed curve. Now practise lifting and lowering each finger. You can also practice hammering them down, tapping, don’t over do it ~ and down and up quickly, as for a ‘tip’… The fingers that need this the most I’ve already explained…

Back to the pop-pap-pip… I have seen several takes on how to interupt with these bubbles a note being Cranned, and any note can be cranned, one way or another, not just the D, but the easiest are D - E - F - G & A, as well in the second octave too… Here’s the basic extended example on D ~ no fingers given ~

p- DD-p-DD-p-DD (DD just signifying a longer sound, what you want to hear is D, the p’s are just "pop!" (or ‘pap’ or ‘pip’)…

The possibilities of what fingers are used, well, I mentioned the least flexible, and I’ve seen people just do the Cran with just two fingers, for example the index and the next, back and forth ~ or ~

Back and forth ~
pip-DDDD-pap-DDDD-pip-DDDD

Rocking ~
pip-DDDD-pop-DDDD-pip-DDDD
pop-DDDD-pip-DDDD-pop-DDDD

Descending ~
pip-DDDD-pap-DDDD-pop-DDDD

Ascending ~
pop-DDDD-pap-DDDD-pip-DDDD

You have choice, and some folks do more than one type or sequence of Crans… I haven’t even given the A above, but choice wise it is similar, for one example, and this you can use to Cran a D or an E, discending only ~

pirp-DDDD-pip-DDDD-pap-DDDD = A-DD-G-DD-F-DD

And, as if you weren’t potentially more confused, there is a 3 and 4 count Cran, etc., using the example just given ~

pirp-DDDD-pip-DDDD-pap-DDDDpirp-DDDD = A-DD-G-DD-F-DD-A-DD

I’m laughing now… Just pick something that is easy for you at the moment, those little popping bubbles can be fun, but not everybody played or plays them. Their introduction into whistle and flute playing, emulating the pipes, is a free choice. They can, as with any ornament, add to and excite the music, and take away and flatten it… Like the ‘roll’, it should be free choice and not the ‘accepted’ rule of standardization that seems to be generally promoted and accepted ~ taken for granted (in ignorance, and neglect)…

Oh yeah, and there’s the simple 2-count Cran, akin to the roll ~

DD-p-DD-p-DD ~ or as one example ~

DDDD-pirp-DDDD-pap-DDDD = D3 (as do the previous examples given)

& you can Cran on D2 too… (~ or E2 / F2 / G2 / A2, etc.)

It must be the double expresso… ;-)

Re: Playing a roll on D …

Nice lesson.

p-DD-p-DD-p-DD is the easier I think and I can almost make it on D, but I still need some practice. I’ll try it on other notes too, even if Rolls are easiers for B A G F and E and sound equal (I think).
Anyways you’ve help me a lot with this one, thanks.

Liam is Liam O’Flynn (ex-Planxty’s piper) by the way.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

"For those mad enough ~ it can be done, a roll on D, on a whistle, as you’d need a really long little finger to do it on a flute, by doing the ‘tip’ by slapping the open hole of the instrument with the little finger…"

…by which you mean closing the *end* of the whistle? My little finger is neither long, fat nor flexible enough to do this successfully. An alternative method might be to hunch over and close the end of the whistle on your lap - à la pipe chanter. Leather or PVC trousers would be necessary to get a good, tight seal. I can’t say I’ve tried it, but I have used a similar method (wearing cotton ‘chino’-style trousers, I might add) to slide up to the high D on occasion. I’d never do it in public, though.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

No, you don’t stop the end, i’ts basically just interrupting half of it to make a recognizeable roll, tapping it, or just in passing and reducing the opening and bringing down the pitch quickly…in which case you don’t need a long little finger. Mine isn’t long. I’ve small hands and small wrists and a small little finger. And yes, it also works if you want a low _D / ^C…

But, you could also do it as you say,, fully or paritally, which would give it that more recognizeable "pop!"…

Re: Playing a ‘cran’ on D …

Crans elsewhere, if you choose to use them ~ sometimes, if you’re using a Cran on a D or an E, it just fits nicely to have them echoed elsewhere too, as they can complement each other…

Re: Playing a roll on D …

When I do a roll on D I use an "A" cut, and for the pat I quickly close the end of the whistle by tapping it on the neck of the guy playing next to me.

Re: Playing a roll on D …

"When I do a roll on D I use an "A" cut, and for the pat I quickly close the end of the whistle by tapping it on the neck of the guy playing next to me."

The question of ‘session etiquette’ springs to mind. Playing too fast, hogging the tunes, bringing your own personal bodhran amp etc. might all be irksome on occasion, but poking your neighbours is just plain rude.

Re: Playing a roll on D is a cynch if you’ve a 7-hole whistle ~

I love it… I forgot to say, awhile back, in the dark recesses of personal history, I remember coming across a 7-holed whistle. Basically it was a D-whistle extended down to C with an added length and hole, the hole covered by the little finger and giving a C, C# by half-holing, and a full D roll ~ DD-cut-DD-tip-DD… I wish I could remember more. I think there were at least two mad makers producing 7-holed whistles at one point or another…

Re: Playing a roll on D …

Yes, Overton too…and 8 holes…

I listened to the whole of the ‘Jolly Beggar’, nice string duets, lovely stuff ~ and poor O’Flynn doesn’t seem very comfortable there just sitting amongst the singing, but what sweet playing once his turn comes…