Pure Hard-core

Pure Hard-core

It seems to me that a lot of musicians these days are just learning tunes from bands,i have nothing against bands,i mean a musician needs to earn a living and some bands can be fun or dare i say it good,but the point is do these musicians not realise that these bands had to get there tunes from somewhere.Take planxty for example,they got their tunes from S

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Re: PURE HARD-CORE

Very good point buzz, but Liam og O’Flynn actually plays almost identically to his father, Liam O’Flynn Snr.
But you’re right, and I hope you put the young piper right also. That’s a reason, I reckon, why so many people are signed up to this site!, ie there’s more, much more to this game than just listening to bands, then copying their sets (although we all do that to an extent). I’ve got to the stage now where I actually prefer to listen to good session tapes/CD’s than overproduced albums by trad’l music stars!

Danny.

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

I’m so happy to hear that you also don’t like that over-produced sound on many cd’s. I’ve been getting tunes now by listening and joining in at sessions when it sounds familiar. I also browse on the web for notation (abc or regular) of tunes I think sound interesting, and now have a binder of my favourites. Thank heaven (and Lord Jeremy) for this site too, of course.
Copying bands’ sets just means laziness, and lack of originality when putting together your own sets. Anyone who does that is missing the point.

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

How fun that you got to tell him about Seamus Ennis, Buzz! I always love getting to be the first person to tell another player about someone whose playing I admire. Did you get him one of the CDs?

Zina

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

Hmmmm. I agree that copying a band’s entire set is lazy, but learning tunes from albums by ear is a far greater skill than by downloading sheetmusic or using "the miraculous slowdowner" that so many members of this site harp on about. Many musicians don’t have access to a regular session and so albums may be their only source of tunes (to listen to). Although it is important to recognise the importance of learning the "original" source of a tune (I use inverted commas as traceability is both subjective and potentially infinite), it is possible to do this having learned it from a cd.

In answer to buzz’s question, I’m afraid that you may have become "an oul stickler".

FMF

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

That makes at least 2 of us old sticklers, and if so, I’m proud of it. As you progress musically you find that there are many ways to play the same tune, and in combination with other tunes to make refreshing sets, eg, dropping down keys, or going up, etc., allowing each tune to be highlighted dramatically. Just aping the sets that the famous bands do is no better than sticking on their CD.
Also it’s not a case of "harping on" about the amazing slow-downer, or any similar software. These can reveal rolls and triplets that are difficult to pick up at normal speed when listening to eg, Seamus Tansey. You subconsciously know he has done *something* to create a particular effect, but consciously you can’t put your finger on it, then put it through the ASD and the feature can be revealed by the software.
I presume you’re not referring to yourself when talking about members not having access to regular sessions cos Edinburgh is jumping with sessions. I imgine most people here must have access to some sort of session-type gathering, to know enough to be able to discuss various things here.

Danny.

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

Well, I just turned 26 today and I have to number myself in the category of "oul sticklers".

Say it with me, "It’s the craic between the tunes; it’s the craic between the tunes…". That’s what slicked up commercial recordings are missing. Most of them don’t allow you to really get that glimpse into what makes up the character of the musicians.

If you want to play slicked up, jazzed up music then play slicked up jazz. That’s not what trad is about - for me at least. It’s about the people, the personalities who live good music. And the really good recordings allow us a small look at those characters. The problem with an album where everything’s perfect is that it’s not real because nobody’s perfect.

I don’t really have a problem with superstar albums. I’m glad they’re out there. I look at them as loss leaders. They can get people hooked into the music. And they can do some really cool innovative stuff. And they allow some good friends of mine to eat.

But at the end of the day, that’s not why I play trad. I love the music for its own sake, but it’s also about something more than just notes.

I like the ASD. But I admit that’s it follows in a distant second place to getting someone to sit down and show you something, or at least getting to see somebody do something. The ASD is good when you can’t actually sit down with a musician and ask, "how do you do that here?" And I actually think it shows a degree of respect for that musician that you’re willing to sit down and pay attention to the nuances of what she is doing.

But, I think it’s always best to be able to talk to the musician that you want to learn tunes from. They probably also have stories to tell and jokes to mess up and drinks to drink. That’s where it’s at!

Just my .5 euros.

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

Darling dears, don’t go getting too "ould stickler" on us, though, because I for one would hate to go back to the days of no recordings and no transportation and the music being so VERY regional that you hardly ever left your village and got new tunes from the Pavee and other such who did travel…etc. etc. etc…

I mean, after all, otherwise you couldn’t go listening to the Seamus Ennis’s anymore…and that’d be a terrible shame. Sometimes the new fangled stuff ain’t too bad either, even before they become the "ould stuff"! 🙂

Zina

Re: PURE HARD-CORE

thanks to danny 4 info on o’flynn but tunes such as dogs among the bushes,freeze britches and some of the big hornpipes were among ennis’s repertoire also c

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Re: PURE HARD-CORE

A good tune is a good tune zina as i said earlier i don’t want anyone to miss out on the oomf that these players had.made a couple of mistakes in last message hope you all got the jist.
Sl

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Re: PURE HARD-CORE

Yeah, Buzz, you’re right, O’Flynn must have had many more influences than just his da, and those pipers you mentioned are all giants (dare I say Heroes!?) in their own right. I reckon the Johnny Docherty (would it be Taisce - The Celebrated Recordings?) might be a bit TOO hard-core (personally I like it!) for the sweet-toothed palate of a ‘novice’ after listening to Altan. Try a box-player with that one recording of Joe Cooley, made just before he died and you might get a warmer response - but then again that was more or less a session.



And here’s me talking about recordings!!
…Which brings me to…

Zina, you’re right as well, as usual(!). Who wants to go back to then - nowadays we’ve got the luxury to choose whether to listen to pumped up fancy studio recordings, session CDs/tapes such the said Cooley’s, or even a quasi-contrived session CD/tape such as Music at Matt Molloy’s, or just real session CDs/tapes that you’ve made or got from your mates!…AND we have the luxury of arguing the toss about it on this site!

But the biggest luxury we have is to be fortunate enough to play this stuff, especially at sessions, where you can give it a good listen-to as well.

There that’s my