How seriously does anyone take this music?

I mean, really!

There’s a lot of talk - on this site, at any rate - about ‘passion’ for this music, and people take the whole thing so terribly, terribly, seriously - so *earnest*.

I mean, at the end of the day, it’s just a bunch of tunes and a pint down the pub with a few mates, some acquaintances … oh, and that eedjit who comes along every so often and bashes away at A minor chords every time you play anything remotely near Edor.

It’s just a bunch of tunes!

Windup alert!

How can you say that, drone?

🙂

Seriously, I am actually at least half serious here.

Well how often does anyone listen to Irish Traditional Music? I for one am addicted, serious you listen you play it’s that simple.

OK, then… Energy levels always rise when people defend their belief system, and musicians are similarly disposed to their music, the focus of their introspection. Therefore heretical (different) views threaten this very personal part of their psyche. Or I could be full of s***e. Aren’t the tunes lovely, though? Whatever transpires, Maggie is always sleeping (or at least drowsing) through the heated bits.

Drone, I think you’re right - in that last sentence, anyway. 😉

’Sfunny, upmine3, but what you mention *is* a part of it. I, for one, hardly ever listen to trad. Or any other kind of music for that matter. I’d much rather have peace and quiet, meself.

However, get me down the pub, and I’m a devil for the tunes. With whatever motley crew there happen to be.

All it does is make me happy though - temporarily. And that’s hardly important, is it?

You’re right ben, but a web forum will naturally attract a high proportion of the over-serious ones.

The vast majority are, as you say, having a laugh down the pub

I take this music seriously - and this goes for other kinds of music as well - only if I’m playing (or preparing to) in a concert, gig, or for set dancers. But it’s still fun.

After a pint or two it does sound seriously good, no matter how you play it.

After just crawling backin from a good 4 hour sunday afternoon session I can say I seriously enjoy the music, what more can you ask for? a good bunch of mates a sunny afternoon and a benevolent landlord ….great craic…benhall I noticed in some item somewhere about a sad welcome in a cornish session? next time your down this way give ours a go

Bren, it’s also the medium of this board--all we can do is *talk* about the music. We can’t actually play it here together, or buy each other pints. So even people who are happy-go-lucky in meatspace may come across as overly earnest and serious here in the cyber-session.

Like I just did in my above post.

😛

VERY!!!

If I had a girlfriend, I would stop playing this music and go to a cinema with her very often. How sad is my life….

i take the music very seriously but not myself.

will--i love “meatspace”

Seriously? depends on the tune, the night the players . . .
the drinks? Traditional music is dynamic. 1st it is one thing then it is different; modulation. rad moves in different ways. Sad, happy, serious. It’s like emoticons. No that’s a bad example.
In discussing trad it’s easy to get pedantic or get caught up in something. That is all just academic. Tradition allows for a time to simply get with other people & play. You only need to listen & it tells you where to come where to go & one thing follows another The next thing you know you have played gobs of jigs & reels & hours have passed. When that happens . . .well ’that’s what I’m talking about.

I take the music seriously enough to have traveled 5000 miles away from my home to study it, but at the same time I don’t take it that seriously everyone is still learning no matter how good you are I don’t expect to be the best out there and do not strive to be, all I could ever hope is that I inspire one person by my own interpretation of the music and what it means to me.

I wish people wouldn’t keep going on about drinks! Do any of you know the current price of a pint?

Why shouldn‘’t we take these tunes seriously? Real good music is capable of causing emotions that are as deeply felt as those caused by real life events. And so are a lot of tunes when played by good musicians.
If noone had ever taken music seriously, there wouldn’t be any music.
Why shouldn’t we try to play the best we can?
That said, I don’t think anyone should dictate ‘the only right way’ to play
these tunes. Music should be developing always. Rigid rules are not the key to great music.

Do any of these synonyms describe your session?

I take the music seriously because it has provided a significant portion of the joy in my life since I started playing it. But there are times and situations where the joy gets sucked out of it completely. These times are often with people that either don’t take it as seriously as I do, or have different aesthetics for what makes it good.

I admit it, I am a session snob! (I even made a tee-shirt that says as much http://www.cafepress.com/ITMGoodies/5317178). The hanging out with people and having pints is good too, but it’s the music that puts it over the top. And the music that can make it a miserable evening.

Maybe that is snobery Pete.
I think you are just making your (musical) community with the people you wish to spend your time. And they with you. Any other players probably won’t see that. At least not at first.

Well, another way of putting it is that I have discriminating tastes. But “discrimination” has gotten a bad reputation in the politically correct world 😉

That is why I prefer musical expression.
politics are very tricky.
language is both precise & ambiguous.
Is there somebody else we can blame for those pitfalls.
I know let’s just gang up on . . .No there are just too many possibilites ~
GIVE ME AN -F
GIVE ME a -U
etcetera.
“Don’t ask me I don’t give a damn.”
The other side of serious, sedate, sober, staid:

Earnest!
Yes
;)

I take it really seriously and have travelled around the world many times to play tunes (and lived overseas for 3 years)….I guess I do get annoyed at people who dont take it that seriously, but only because they tend to be the ones who wreck sessions.
Session Wreckers as we like to call them, you know the ones…someone got a bodhran for their birthday so they just thought they’d come and jam…etc

Pete -I love your tshirts, I will be onto you about someo of thoses!!

In the initial post Ben writes: "I mean, at the end of the day, it’s just a bunch of tunes and a pint down the pub with a few mates, some acquaintances … oh, and that eedjit who comes along every so often and bashes away at A minor chords every time you play anything remotely near Edor.
It’s just a bunch of tunes!"

And in the 3rd post Ben says about his thread: “Seriously, I am actually at least half serious here.”

Blimey! I don’t understand a word of that one, Random_notes.

Pencross, fancy you remembering that. Where is your session? I’d be very glad to have a better impression of my mother country than I had last time I tried a session down there.

Floss - don’t worry about the price of a pint. There’s one with your name on it, any time from about 5 days from now.

Some of the other comments? Well, see what I mean? SO-O-O-O earnest. Reverend, I agree in that some of the happiest moments in my life have been while playing in some session or other. I’ve been known to think “Ah, so *this* is what all that hard work (work, that is) and toil and stress has all been for”. Still, it seems to me to be very unimportant, if all it’s for is to give me, and others, a little bit of pleasure in some pub, ’til it’s time to go.

Tunes. A bit of fun, yes. A nice part of human interaction. But they don’t matter. When they’re gone, it won’t matter, will it? Not worth getting serious about.

PB - I meant serious about saying that you can’t take it seriously.

I understand Benhall1
All I am saying is don’t get too caught up in explanations or answers.
Listen ~ play.
{& post}

Besides you could post this same topic every day for eternity.
Doesn’t mean the music benefits.
But I could be mistaken.

Ah. Fair enough, Random. Sounds good to me.

Ok… I was a music major in college and I had a wide variety of musical styles and genres that I was learning and playing before I ever heard Irish trad. When I stumbled on it I was halted in my tracks by the depth and unique quality of it. I was drawn to it because I really liked the musical aspects and I had no idea there were sessions and that everyone from grandmas to babies in Ireland sat around the kitchen table or the local pub playing the tunes and enjoying the craic, etc. Only after pursuing it for a while did these things start to dawn on me and it just made it that much more fascinating.

If I’m serious about the music it means just that -- I’m serious about the music. I want to understand and be able to properly play what I was astonished to first hear in 1975… by accident. Do I take the part about sessions, drink and craic seriously? Of course not -- that’s something I do for fun after I’ve seriously worked on the music.

Ben writes: “PB - I meant serious about saying that you can’t take it seriously.”

~~~

I know… I was just taking the p*ss. 😉

Hogarthian, hydrated, aulophonic, domifuge, feliphile, semiphilharmonic, catatonic, zythozoic, physarmonic, exonicotinic, omphaloscopic, askaulic, Antipodean, Thulic, Hibernian, Hyperborean, anantidisestablishmentarian, athambic, quasidormient.

These and many more could be fairly applied to sessions I attend, or their component parts.

>> Pete -I love your tshirts, I will be onto you about someo of thoses!!

Thanks bb, and while you’re at it, come up with new good ideas for more. Need more specific ones for all the instruments… (Although, the Banjo in the Forest one is selling like hotcakes - meaning I’ve sold, like, 3 of them! Must finish designing other ones in that series…)

It is not a bunch of tunes. Tunes as a concept are too fixed. Eye Tee Emm comes alive when good people who possess a loving streak, a serious streak and a fun streak in equal measure get together, or even get on their own, and play it for the sheer pleasure. Not anybody else’s pleasure, though that will surely follow as night follows day. The main thing is that it’s entirely voluntary, so excuse me for eschewing the navel-gazing. Do it if you want, build Lego houses if you don’t!

Hey Rev, I have one of the three -- the one about flute drool. John gave it to me.

I think of it as “treating it with respect” rather than ’taking it seriously".

I take it seriously in that I love it, I want to play it, I want to play it well and part of all that is not annoying other people who play it by wrecking a session or being an irritating perpetual beginner at sessions. More work needed before I get beyond that stage. Putting bread on the family table plus health issues = limited ability to cope with other things, even things I’d really like to do, so treating it with respect for me has meant putting it (in fact, pretty much all music, even paying gigs) aside for a while.

benhall1, are you saying playing ITM is not important relative to doing something about all the suffering in the world? Or that ITM isn’t as important as Guernica, or a Beethoven symphony?

That seems like a false equation to me. I doubt you believe that we should swear off art, music, and good food until all are housed, fed, and clothed, or that categories of high art have more legitimacy, otherwise you wouldn’t be posting here.

And as others have already pointed out, a few tunes and pints is not the sum of ITM activity, nor many peoples entry point to it (though I’m sure looking forward to it tonight).

Personally, I only learn tunes to help stave off alzheimer’s…now what was the name of that tune…wait, I’ll remember in a minute!

How did you remember there was a session tonight?

I take it seriously enough to spend heaps of time every day listening and
playing. But on the other hand I won’t be quitting my job to move to
Ireland or spending huge amounts of money traveling to festivals and
buying instruments and recordings. But if I was 30 years younger it
would be a different story …

Who said that…do I know you…? Oh, that tune’s called The Old Thing With The Thing…something like that.

The local Irish Sessions here are one of many music jam sessions which I participate in simply because I enjoy playing music in my free time when I am not working at my day job at a local hospital. I want to spend as much of my free time as possible doing one of the few activities in life which I genuinely enjoy and that is playing music. Irish music is one of the genres of music that I both enjoy listening to and playing.

By the way, Keith, that girl with the white hair who plays whistle is coming tonight… what was her name? Hmmm… 😏

I suppose that’s part of it, Keith. But mainly, it’s just that some people - well, they are, as I said above - so *earnest*. It doesn’t bother me so much when it’s in electronic form - on this site, elsewhere on the web, whatever. But sometimes you meet these people in ‘meatspace’. Ugh! Just send them away. SO-O-O-O bloody serious. Unbearable.

I’ll give you an example. I was in a session once, having a few tunes, and feling pretty mellow actually. Then this fella sort of gradually worked his way round the seats til he was sitting next to me. He had this sort of shining light in his eyes, and every now and then would ask me about the name/origin/something else/ of the tune I had just played. He was a zealot - that’s the only word, really. I had to leave in the end, at which point he expressed surpise and disappointment that I had to leave the session as he’d really enjoyed the music and my playing. Guess what nationality he was - OK, he was, but actually that’s unfair, ’cos I think these people come in *all* flavours.

😀 ~ Uh, hh, sorry… Someone had left their phone on and that ringtone, well, I couldn’t help laughing… I know, I know, this is a serious topic and I need to shed this rude T-shirt for something more appropriate. I don’t have a tux, would a hooded sweatshirt do? Nah, that has something rude on it too. I could borrow my wife’s pink hoodie? Sorry, yes, I know, this isn’t about fasion. I just felt that maybe it might help set my mood into something more serious… I’ll try thinking of something more serious… … … … … … Damn! Dead things!

Alright, alright, I’m leaving. I have to meet a need anyway, my bladder is near to bursting with all the expresso I’ve consumed this morning… Do you mind if I leave my flat cap here to keep my seat? You do?! 🙁 Alright, I can take a hint… You miserable old fart…

Come on, I’m serious, I own three flat caps!!! Oh yeah, that’s because I’m bald and burn easily… Maybe that doesn’t count?

I’m going, I’m going, you don’t have to shove. You and your anger-management drop-out face… 😏

meh - I’m serious on here, but really - I hardly ever ask the name of a tune..cant read music so there is little point. Get quite worked up about peope with no cop on, but then again…who doesnt? other than that I am as cruisey as they come.

Quite.

I know every word of Danny Boy, am acquainted with several NYC policemen and firefighters, cannot wait for green Miller Beer each spring, have attended two St. Patrick’s Day parades (Okay, they were in New Mexico, but, hey…) and I, too, own more than one flat cap (Donegal tweed, I believe).

And once I saw a leprechaun. He was holding a lamp in someone’s driveway.

So there.

To be any good at this music (like many others), you have to have the inclination to play it, and a bit of natural talent, and then you have to practise for thousands of hours. So how can we not take it seriously? What we shouldn’t take too seriously, of course, is ourselves, not to mention most of what is written here on the board. But to question whether Irish music is to be taken seriously is to detract from it a musical form: classical = serious, Irish = just for a laugh. Well, I don’t agree with that. I don’t take classical music seriously, but that’s just because I don’t play it. I know it’s serious, very serious, and so is Irish music to anyone who wants to be any good at it. Or was this just a wind-up, and I’m being too serious?

You take the important things in life seriously.

Here in the States, we have sad comedy we live with that will end, if it is allowed, on January 20, 2009. Most of us prettty much ignore it most of the time. When public attention deviates from it, they march out some terror scare or try to blow up some country in the middle east.

Thank God we have some thing that means something…The Music!

When you see me out and about, I’m laughing, joking, fiddlin‘ and hollerin’.

If you catch me on here being thoughtful, or even in meatspace if you prod me enough, I might explain how the music and my heritage provide with personal and deep meaning, and help ground me. I make music, it’s what I do.

Also, I’ve always found it funny how we have to denigrate what we do as if every yokel can actually play this music with the same degrees of decency most of us do on a regular basis. I don’t mean we set the world on fire, I mean we love the music and care about it, so we try to make sure it’s as good as possible when it’s played.

It is just hanging out with friends, but to be honest, I don’t know that many groups of friends that actually get together to play music in the real world, not magic musician-land. Most regular (non-musician) folks play cards, go out to dinner, have parties, you know what I mean? “Say Bob, want to come over and play some music tonight?” “Are you high? The game’s on, let’s get a 12 pack and hit the couch.”

Now let’s leave the whoopee cushion on Dave’s seat while he’s having a smoke, and then start up his favorite set. When he comes back in, he’ll rush to his seat to grab his mando, sit down, and…

Irish music is like DodgeBall.
You have to take it very seriously but make it look as though its’ easy. Hoping no one notices the huge bruise on your butt.
Laughter helps in all cases ~ Just not while trying to hold an embouchure

Benhall1 - yeah, like deSelby says, it’s more an issue of not taking oneself too seriously, and of not being humorless. I think deS hits the nail on the head.

The man of words himself here, speaking his own words with his own voice…

http://www.ubu.com/sound/joyce.html

benhall.1 you sound awfully serious and earnest about how unimportant you think the Music is and how unseriously you think people should be taking it. Can you explain that?

Actual encounter - not quite verbatim, as I’m setting it down here from memory, but here goes:

“You shouldn’t be playing that tujne at that speed, it’s a single jig , it goes much faster.”

Me: “But where I learnt that tune, that’s the speed it goes, how people play it, and did play it when I first heard it, and how it was taught to me by this old guy.”

Other: “Well, that’s not the right speed for a single jig, Single jigs go like this. Of course, if you’re playing an *English* single jig, it would go like this.”

I kid you not - “English single jig”.

Well that person was a tosser for sure. There is no “one true way” to play anything. But believing that there is, to my mind, is not the same thing as being overly serious/earnest. Am I missing something?

I think there is. I think it stems from a sort of zealotry. An over-serious, over-earnest sort of fanaticism.

Strangely, though, I distinguish that from obsession. To the argument that you have to be serious to be able to play this music at all well, I would say ‘No, you just have to be obsessed’. I’m obsessed, but I’m not serious about it. I’m *frivolously* obsessed.

’Sprobly why I’m no good. 🙁

No no! Carry on Ben! Well said, “frivolously obsessed” indeed, count me in!

You nailed it. That’s the problem with a major portion of the planet, as well, not just our little cultural and musical section of humanity: over-serious fanaticism

I live in the Southern US, aka “The Bible Belt”, so when I speak of the dangers of “over-serious fanaticism”, you can rest assured I know of what I speak. 😛

Ah Ben, you’re fine, and your fiddling’s not half bad either. 😉

Seriously, many of us here are amateurs, and no matter how obsessed were are, life compels us to take many other things--family, work, the house and yard chores--more seriously, to give them priority.

My hunch is that all of us are as earnest about having fun as we are about playing the music.

Earnest fun. Yuk.

😉

Good stuff of yours there on the bowing thread, Will. And … btw … I hope you *didn’t* mind my post on Sound Lantern? I didn’t know whether you got my e-mail …

Being earnest … I’ve never seen the importance …

[the above is a lie]

Ben, I’m so inept at this cyber stuff that I couldn’t find your sound lantern account. Can you point me in the right direction (pm me if you don’t want to publicize it)?

LOL, “earnest fun.” But that’s what this music is, eh? You can’t play it if you aren’t at least somewhat earnest about learning your instrument and the tunes, and a little something about the tradition. But once you’ve woodshedded a bit, it’s more fun than sects….

“More fun than sects”

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha!

[I liked that one]

[PM coming up]

oops! not enough ’ha’s

In sessions & sects your position has alot to do with how much
fun you have.

Hey that is some nice playing on sound lantern, benhall.1.

The difference between a session and a sect is that a session leader is unlikely to have a fleet of posh cars.

This need not indicate he has any virtues. It is more likely to indicate that he lacks charisma, persuasive skills and respectable connections.

What position do you favour for sects, Random_Notes?

No, no don’t tell me!

Oh, God, I can see this one coming …

Here’s an mp3 of some of my earnest scraping : -)

http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4945&Path=HandMeThatWireChicken.mp3#

I’m not going to take a position.
I’m just the punter tossing out inane comments. Not very careful about what you ask for are you? I have to admit, even though I thought this was just another redundant thread, you do own this one. Seriously you earned it & deserve all the poor puns.
Cheers!

As a temporary hijack to my own thread … Does anyone else find their Sound Lantern channel depressing? As in:

“You currently have no favorites (sic)”

“You currently have no subscriptions”

“You currently have no friends”

Yes, ever since I joined that thing, my life has been one constant downward spiral …

Just a thought 🙂

http://www.rentapal.com/

Il do it for a reasonable rate,as my pipe fund keeps getting fecking hijacked.

No sects though

Thanks J.D !

I followed that link. Have you read the advice? It’s really really good. I was surprised.

Jayzus, ben, you have 8 subscribers… And now you want “friends”? I think you actually have to work to have “friends”, but subscribers are effortless… Quitcherbitchin!

Yeah, but I want some friends.

🙁

[stomps foot petulantly]

🙁

[in case you misssed it the first time]

With friends like these…

Well, I think you’re SOL, ben. I just spent 45 minutes trying to figure out how to add you as a friend on SoundLantern, but as far as I can tell, it requires a direct invite via email. Come to think of it, this may be why you don’t have any “friends” 😏

Oh, and I uploaded an mp3 file to SoundLantern, and it played at a slow speed, in a lower key. Gonna have to figure that one out, but not tonight….

Maybe count yer blessings.One of my so called friends is on hols and guess who has to get up an hour early every morning to take his bloody big dog for a walk ,muggins here, and the fekin dog hates me.
so count yer blessings fella.

nice playing fair play to ya

And now to work 🙂

OK. In work now, so will have to figure out how to make Pete my friend later on.

No time for making friends while I’m working.

😉

J.D I bet he’s a lovely dog dog really. 🙂

“You currently have no friends”

Yes, ever since I joined that thing, my life has been one constant downward spiral …"

Now I’m definitely never uploading anything on that site (well, and I suck). Last thing I need is some stupid website saying I have no friends!

I spent some time subscribing to the folks I recognised on Soundlantern, but I never found Reverend anywhere, so I expect he’ll be offended now 😉 and I never figured out how to work the make friends thing either, but what the heck do you want friends for, benhall, I mean, they only cause you bother and want to borrow stuff and annoy you with irritating habits - and I inadvertently listened to some other musical genre on there, maybe ‘techno’ ? It was awful, just so awful…

Wolfbird - if you want to find Reverend, I think you can find him by going to my channel and you’ll see he’s a subscriber. And I’m told that the ‘Friends’ part of the site is not working, but they’re trying to correct it, and it should be working by today or tomorrow.

Ah, ok, thanks ben. Is Rev worth listening to ? 😉

Yes. Radically different from either your own contributions or, even more so, mine. Gentle, musical, really nice.

Hey, Rev, did you play all the instruments on your clip?

Ah, no … I see it’s the same track as in Rev’s bio, so it’ll be his band. OK then, Rev, who’s playing what?

Just that I heard a rumour, ben, Rev’s a rising star and intends entering the american version of trad idol, so maybe he’ll be rich and famous soon… 😉

(I’ll try and check it out later. I still don’t understand what channels are or what they’re supposed to do)

More likely poor and infamous…but only for the winner.

Benhall, I got your page and went to channels and looked at 18 or so pages, but no sign of any Reverends anywhere….

Funny … I think if you go to my page, via my member profile here, and then look at ‘Subscribers’, you should be able to find him.

If not … HEY REVEREND!!! SHOW THE WOLF WHERE YOU ARE!!!

Reverend
https://thesession.org/members/11048

Quite, but I don’t let that get in the way of the more important aspects of tradition or life…

Of all the things there are that this tradition is, the things I would miss most if they were absent are not the pyrotechnics of technique or immaculate style. Those things I value most are the heart in it, and the humour, the smiles and laughter, the history too, but really, the glue is the social craic, the good times, the humanity of it. I would choose that any time over hot superstars laying it on thick and with attitude. For emphasis and to irritate language purists with a double negative ~ It don’t impress me none…

#94 ~ almost there, six more to reach 100… 😉

I agree, ceolachan.

Ah, but Reverend hasn’t put a link to his Sound Lantern channel on his bio.

Reverend, have you thought of poutting something of you - just you, solo - up on your channel? I for one would be really interested.

97…..where’s the hash key on a mac keyboard ?
Well, it’s an americanisation anyway, can’t really approve of it.
But the number of responses to the question shows that we DO take it seriously.
Oh, and, Reverend, I have put a friend, name of Gavin, onto your site for some Trad the Vote’08 stuff.
I might go for a Irvine-Brady myself. And a Session Rules t-shirt.

Hash key on a (British) Mac Keyboard: press Alt and the number 3. I believe it may be Shift and 3 on a US keyboard

Music? What music? The discussion seems to have wandered away from music.
As for “more fun than sects”, I just have to ask, “Is there any violins involved?”

So?
;)