Begged Borrowed Stolen

Somebody mentioned this crazy tunebook a few months ago and it got me wondering …. who has managed to get a copy of this? I photocopied one off a person in my group here in Gisborne, New Zealand which had been altered to "Begged Borrowed Stolen Added to Photocopied and Enjoyed" and had another 38 tunes added to the 98 already there. It was a great source of tunes (before I discovered the internet had millions). I would love to know how far around the world the thing has gone.

It’s pretty much a staple for most… if not all beginner players in Australia. Unfortunately it means that most of the tunes have been played to death.

ugh

ah bb… you say it the way i was thinking it! 🙂

Oh gawd! The bushband bible! Yep … very widespread in Oz … recently revised and with a CD now (I hear tell).

Hey Davydd - its not that widespread with beginners down here….thankfully

I’d like to know what’s wrong with Begged Borrowed and Stolen ???..or this a case of musical snobbery rearing its ugly head….again..

… oh my, here we go again. Please do not even infer snobbery. I wrote something here, but scrubbed it for fear of getting into trouble (yet again!). I’m not going to say a word … but, it is different. I don’t think you would want to turn up to an Irish trad session in a pub with one under your arm and a music stand … the visions it congers are of largerphones and tea and scones for supper and people arguing over how the dots should be played.

Its Australian bush music.

So is it all 146 tunes that can no longer be played because they’ve been done to death by newbs? .

Help!! 🙁

Clear Drops You can run but you can’t hide! It’s OK. I’m only stirring 😉

I had a copy of that but I think somone pinched it.

This points out a tribal division that’s pretty new to me, since I’ve only
arrived on planet Trad recently. But for others it’s old news.
I guess I am in the "snob" camp because the music stands thing is what
I’m trying to escape. But I do know some good musicians in that other
camp.

Its not snobbery if the tunes are crap. But it isnt even that…they arent really irish - oh there are a couple of standards but its more Aussie bush music than anything else.

Groan… You wouldn’t believe how many people here have to ask "What page is it on?" before they can play a tune, and if it’s not in BB&S, forget it. I give up…

Jeez, all of a sudden, learning the Kesh jig and Morrisons doesn’t make me feel so good.

The only thing "Aussie bush" about the tunes is that they’re played by the Aussie bush music crowd. The tunes themselves aren’t homegrown Aussie tunes, but a mixture of Irish, Scottish, Northumbrian, and even some daggy morris tunes. Most of the Irish tunes in the book have been selected from bog standard warhorses that nobody has played in Ireland for about 40 years. However, if you really look hard, there are some rarer gems in there, namely Rattigan’s https://thesession.org/tunes/2262, Joe Burke’s (better known as Darby the Driver) https://thesession.org/tunes/1137, and probably the most uncommon of all is the Fair-haired Boy (but not the usual tune that goes by that name) https://thesession.org/tunes/4552.

My problem with the book is that, more often than not, the people who use it do not seem to realise that there is a repertoire outside of the book that they can draw from. They think that that’s all there is to Irish music.

So like many a beginner’s aid, positive if used correctly, if it becomes the end point of someone’s musical journey, it becomes a crutch. Sounds like an awful small collection of tunes to limit one’s self to play….

Contents of Begged, Borrowed and Stolen:

http://www.celt.com.au/contents_pages/contbbs.html

I like old tunes myself. I like to learn every old chestnut that can be played widely with most folks. I like obscure tunes too, but I’d rather play some old beat up gem with a brand new friend than some obscure bit of nonsense solo TO a new friend.

I always feel like Charlie Brown with the Xmas tree nobody wanted.

"Oh, it’s not such a bad, old tune, it just needs a little love, that’s all."

😉

Here we see Linus and Charlie Brown discussing the joy and power of The Kesh Jig while surrounded by such flashy recent compositions as "The Watch me Shimmy Up and Down the Fingerboard Like a Deranged Lunatic" and "The Wickedly Complicated Reel That Nobody Knows":

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/2057611688_44116dab64.jpg?v=0

Crazy, yes, I own a copy, purchased in Ireland I believe, a music shop just off Grafton Street, Dublin…

I have lent it over time to others, including on Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, Canada…

What I remember of it, since it isn’t at hand at the moment, I remember, I think, an orange cover and drawings of musical instruments on that cover. I was impressed by the variety of tune forms, that it included a good sampling of polkas and slides while others did not…

That’s it! ~ http://www.celt.com.au/austune.html

They’ve done CDs for it? Yes, I think I remeber ~ a cassette?

I thought it was a great little collection for beginners, but no daft flash to satisfy dear Cruella… For its heart and its intentions I give it 4 out of 5 stars ~ ****…

You mean our using music stands has been all wrong? Leaving the things home would make sessions roomier, thereby freeing up space for the brass section and cellos

Traipsing fiddlers would have that many fewer obstacles to negotiate. Many of the dancing fiddlers here are terribly nearsighted. Often times they don’t see the music stands in their path until it’s too late.

Was that you guys? I was laid up for weeks. So much for my quick trip through the Bay Area. 😏

SWFL, were you the fellow in the attenuated empire gown, or the pink spagetti sting top? It wasn’t a pretty sight when either of you were dragged out by the heels.

You did not collide with any music stand of mine, as I favor a marching-band style music lyre for my chanter top. It even has a little light on it.

I love that image, I’ve seen lyre type music stands for instruments that would fit a chanter just right, and nothing to trip on, and those little books of music, perfect…

Hey SWFL, what happened, did you trip over a music stand and end up in hospital?

" in hospital?"
That has always mystified me. Why do Americans say "in THE hospital," whereas folks from the other side of the pond say "in hospital?"

it sounds like his spaghetti string top may have gotten tangled up with someone’s lyre-style music stand. exactly what do you call that sort of dancing anyway?

quigley, by "attenuated" do you mean mermaid-like or washed too often or semi-transparent?

After the first thousand years of traditional music, I imagine most tunes would be "done to death".

Doesn’t mean they are "crap" tunes.

Let’s face it, Bach and Mozart have been "done to death". Hardly crap.

So it is indeed a snobbery thing about not playing "done to death" tunes, instead of just admitting that you are unable to play the tune.

Because, dear wyogal, we get it free… No need for ‘The’, since we all own a slice of it… 🙂 I keep praying for a national health for you guys though… But first, you need to get rid of Bush, eh?

I can see that now, SWFL in a string vest… 😀

Bliss, where you been…

~ unable to play the tune ~ with interest and lift….

But to be fair, by all reports, Cruella’s bark is worse than her bytes, and I understand she ain’t bad, though she does favour the weird new stuff. She must be a kid, probably in here teens… 😀

Oh yeah, like they have in Canada? waiting months for an appointment? Nope. Insurance and pharmeceutical company (however it’s spelled) reform is what is needed. We don’t need to "get rid" of Bush, that’s what term limits and elections are for. I don’t think the alternative is going to be any better, just more naive.

p.s. please don’t shoot me! ; )

lol at string vest - nice addition to an already vivid scenario c!

I’ll remember you in my prayers tonight… 😉

No, we don’t wait months, in most cases… But the pharmaceutical companies are famously working hard to lobby against anything that reduces their huge profits, including any kid of national health. They have their effect here too, worldwide, as that is their nature… And, having lived in Canada, I never waited months there either… But that might be what they want you to believe, it’ll keep you in your place ~ going nowhere and stuck in the same old rut… But I’m still rooting for change, which will be forced on us all in the long run anyway… I’ll keep hoping for a better and fairer world, and doing what I can to guide my life and dealings in that general direction…

Begged, Borrowed or Stolen…

We could start a string vest fest ~ Irish music, but everyone in a string vest. What else should we add to the costume? I’m thinking a tie-dye string vest, and zorries / flip-flops…

First off, hey airport, how’s the thumb? Secondly, dancing fiddlers are the future, and we must accommodate the future, whether we like it or not. Their dance could be called ‘Step Fiddle’ or somesuch thing. Thirdly by ‘attenuated’ I meant all of the above. Add a couple of feet of beard and bushy eyebrows to complete the ensemble. Was that you SWFL? Come clean.

We’ll use the Ozzie collection "Begged, Borrowed and Stolen" as the bible of the event, just to keep this on topic….

What about cut-offs?

Of course, we need change. I have a son that is uninsured until he gets back into school on the 25th and I hope and pray nothing happens until then. My daughter is about to age out of our insurance, too.
I know that when my mom fell and cracked her elbow in Winnipeg, my dad’s choice (he’s been a medical group manager, a working class guy with docs as bosses, ugh) was to get back across the border to the emergency room in the states. A friend of my brother’s was in Vancouver when his appendix was about to burst, they told him to wait. He immediately drove to the states where his appendix burst on the exam table.
I had a sinus issue a couple of years ago, had a dream the night before I saw the neurosurgeon. In my dream, I asked how much the appointment was going to cost. They replied, $27,000! I woke up in a cold sweat. Sure as sh*t, the bill in real life for the surgery and everything leading up to it was pretty darn close, if not a little more, than $27,000.
We need change, I just don’t know that any of our politicians have the answer.
BTW, this book sounds very interesting!

wow, I love it - the warlock of faded opulence and neo-punk-beachcombers playing tunes together out of the Ozzie bible. Thanks for asking about the thumb Quig - it’s better and I’ve been playing a lot. Still holding the bow bat-style, but I’m getting better at it 🙂

Ha ha, enjoyed the response. I must admit I don’t use it much these days, except occasionally to get some bare bones of a tune, then alter it to fit the version in my head which would have come from a cd. Round here we don’t get alot of live stuff to listen to - in fact we ARE the live stuff! And too bad if we aren’t 100 percent perfect trad - when you go halfway around the world and mix in whoever is interested then you gotta expect a little local flavour to creep in. And yes, I do play from pages of dots but at time goes by that gets less and less as I keep trying. Not that I mind the cruel twisted pompous cutting comments from the "I learnt by ear and by sucking it in with my mother’s milk" brigade - we all have our "I’m better than you because…" thoughts but as I tell my kids - what you say about others says more about yourself!!!

ceol - cut-off suit pants, methinks. And black socks to go with the flip flops. Thick-n-thins.

What I don’t understand is the connection between music stands and Austrailian music. After all, from what us Americans know of Austrailia, your music must be played by people who dress like Crocodile Dundee, and pick their teeth with knives and belch a lot after eating wild game. Not the type of crowd I see using music stands. And wouldn’t the music stands get in the way of those rocks on strings that you spin around your head to make howling noises? And how many notes would you need to read playing a diggeriedoo anyhow (no, that is a low G that follows the low G, and then after the repeat, it is a low G)!
😉

Sorry ceolachan, there is a special time in a man’s life when he must acknowlege the donning of string tops as being the privilege, rightfully, of youth. We must be brave, and forsake string tops…empire gowns … and all that…[sighs]. Now we’d better get out of here before more Australians wake up to find the mess we’ve made.

Ceolachan, I live in Canada and I have waited months for an appointment. It’s fair to say it nearly killed me. I think things may have changed since you were here.

However, it’s nothing compared with the horror stories I hear from relatives in Ireland and the UK.

OK, first off, I’d like that thank Mr. bliss for not commenting on my choice in ladies’ evening wear.

No really, airport, glad your thumb is doing better. Not sure about your fashion sense though…

Second, I’d like to thank Mr. C for lending me the use of his tie-dyed string vest, I trust the dry cleaners got all the body hair out?

Third, I wasn’t sure what to wear. You know, when in Rome, and I was near enough to San Francisco to be torn between Haight-Ashbury and Castro Street, so I just went with both. Mr. C’s wardrobe is extensive and allows for any possible combination of fashion disasters!

Finally, I haven’t been in California since 1992, but this sure was fun. 😛

Quigley, you have a patent on this piper’s lute-style music stand, yes?

well in my own defence, I was picturing something actually made from string - I didn’t realize it was an army mesh thing…

*defense* over here anyway

…oh yes, and apologies to Australia. Carry on!

I don’t like "Begged Borrowed or Stolen". I’ts too difficult fo read without spectacles. If Michael Leunig was a music copyist it would look like that. A lot of the tunes are irritating, and the title
is in bad taste.

wyogal & grego ~ obviously succeeding governments in Canada have ruined what I’d had the pleasure of, way back when… I don’t doubt that, they’ve been degradding and poisoning their wilderness areas for a long time, but have the convenient cop out of saying "look what their doing in the United States!" ~ While raping the countryside in Canada in the name of profit. Alas, what’s new? That’s sad news…

Glad to hear your thumb is improving airport…

Hey, a theme is developing, I like the Crocodile Dundee idea Al… What about that AQ, old farts can look good that way, I mean look at Harrison Ford and the latest Indian Jones… We could go that route, the Indiana Joneses or Crocodile Dundees of ITM! ~ Swinging into action… Whaddayuh think SWFL? Either would go down in Florida, and we could wear shorts…

Chunboi, I’ve got one of those long reading rulers you could borrow, but most of the stuff in that collection we would all know by ear anyway. We could just follow the index and to hell with the dots… 😎

Cor Dow, the immigrants brought their music with them (as no doubt you have done, although you are in England at present I believe), and it formed the basis of the music played out in the bush for dances and socialising. Cheese! My great grandfather, Jock Olney used to get the nod from his wife Reeny to don his kilt and march his highland bagpipes around the hoose! (in Melbourne). Aussie bush music has evolved from other tradition/s, similar to in Canada, US and any parts of the new world that people from the old world immigrated to. Its dance music too, and as Hup said, there are some very fine musos in it (and it is no way just limited to BBS either). It just isn’t the be all and end all of Irish trad - and, unfortunately, that is what a lot of people (that I have met) think. They don’t realise there is so much more that is beautiful and far more interesting in Irish trad 🙂.

… on a personal level, how would you react to someone turning up at your Irish trad session with BBS and a music stand, hey?

Hi, all you people from across the water. We call them "thongs" … and if you were to don string vests around here in no time at all you’d be fried like a lobster and eventually end up quequed in the skin cancer clinic (if we had one here!!!) … or should I say, sent down to hospital in Adelaide fer treatment. Sigh!

Ceolachan. Speak up man I can’t hear you ! ( holds tattered
giant gramophone horn up to gnarled ear).

Howdy Clear Drops, nice of you to drop in… NIce shorts! I’m not sure about the flat cap though…

IT’S ALRIGHT CHUN, TAKE YOUR MEDICINE, THAT’S A NICE OLD CODGER, HERE’S THE CUP OF PILLS, AND HERE’S SOME SCOTCH TO DOWN IT WITH…

Ho hum…reform pharmaceutical companies is it? Australia has had a pharmaceutical benefits scheme for oh, around sixty years or so. That is a scheme where the government subsidises medicines…so that something that was unaffordable is now only a fraction of the cost. That means that all taxpayers are subsidising the scheme to make it affordable for all - after all, most of us will need medicine at some stage, and sometimes lots of it.
The fed government simply says to the pharmaceutical companies, hey, reduce your price, or you don’t get on the benefits list and your medicine doesn’t get subsidised, so good luck getting anyone to buy it. They really have no choice. The vast majority of medicines go onto the PBS (the scheme).Those that don’t, well…no one buys them…so no one stocks them…and doctors don’t prescribe them.
Sounds a whole lot better than going to the doctor and getting a prescription which you can’t afford to fill as happens to our friends in other "first world" countries.
Where I live there are doctors lined up in their rooms waiting for a patient to walk in. (You just need to know where to live in Australia.)
Sorry, guys.

And the only patients they get to see are the ones spinning those rocks around their heads on strings until the string gets so short and the rock gets so fast that it ends up causing serious injuries.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrtttttt. scusie.

HERE’S YOUR TISSUES CHUN, WIPE THAT GREEN BUBBLE AWAY, I AIN’T GOING TO DO IT FOR YUH… OH GEEZ, WHAT’S THAT GROWING WET SPOT DOWN THERE AROUND YOUR FEET AND ZIMMER FRAME ~ OH NO, YOU HAVEN’T…. NURSE!!!

Hi C, thanks fer the welcome … somehow me Akabru (broad-brimmed Aussie made felt hat fer those not in the know) ended up in the backyard … and got dismembered howlingly by a hoard of puppies. There are still tatters about but not enough to save anyone from the sun 🙁.

Tee hee hee guys!

… yer turn will come.

To me,there’s two things that have leapt out of this discussion….
One is that the detractors of B,B&S..and learning tunes from dots in general,have opinions based on a ‘living in a city’ perspective..You folks have the luxury of being able to go to many different sessions in a given week,see great players,hear new tunes and be influenced by all of the above..This is not the story for us who live in the country.In my case,the closest session to me (except for our humble monthly gathering of newbies) is 150 miles/240klms away..and I could’nt give two hoots if someone turned up with a copy of BB&S and a music stand at our sesh ..so starved are we for musos..
While on the ‘dot’ thing…two things the detractors miss is that some folks really enjoy bringing a tune to life from the dots and then discard the page….and….some folks have a very poor memory retention…I plead guilty to both..I did a Flute class with Grey Larsen a few years back and within minutes of leaving the class,I had not the faintest idea of how the tune went….How else could I reclaim the tune without the music ?
and …..the second thing….
People are’nt given any credit for their intelligence/wanting to know more about Irish Music/curiousity…
It is believed that once we get our copy of BB&S,then thats all we’ll ever need,this is Irish Trad,the Bible,I’m now complete..This also applies to the hatred of Riverdance….Both are an introduction to Irish Music and those smitten by it will dig deeper…I know I did…and am very much rewarded by my findings….
I think that might do for now…….see yers….

This is getiing too serious. I’m going back to me Kesh Jig and The Silver Spear. Practise makes perfect.

Matt Malloy supposedly has a Tunes notebook to jog his
memory - the first couple of bars of each part of each tune.
I have over 300 in my own notebook so far; The hardest part is
remembering how things start. It’s like jump starting a car … When I
practice I play random selections out the notebook every day to keep
the slipperly lil’ buggers from escaping my brain cells.

Me too - the first bar is enough to get me going and it helps if the title of the tune is there too as that is almost the hardest bit to remember.
You lot over in Ireland dont’ get the idea that New Zealand is anything like Aussie - they got settled by convicts, have kangaroos, poisonous snakes and spiders, crocodiles and LOTS OF FLIES. We have none of these, although some dumbass introduced cute little furry possums from there to here and now they are a huge problem (but their fur makes very warm socks and mittens)

"The Watch me Shimmy Up and Down the Fingerboard Like a Deranged Lunatic" and "The Wickedly Complicated Reel That Nobody Knows"

That is only cause people are too lazy to learn them, If everyone learnt them they wouldnt be obscure anymore would they.

also zoukboy -dont be fooled - in a city we may live, but there arent many trad players at all.

"Matt Malloy supposedly has a Tunes notebook to jog his
memory…"

Thanks for that Hup! I only know about 30 ITM tunes and I’m invariably in need of a mnemonic to get some one of them started. Hundreds of tunes? That’s why they invented beer! 😛

Bredna. You only have our dumbass possums over there because you ate all the mammals. Slim.

bb
are you about?

Is that the book with all the definitive chords for the aspiring accompanist.??

I am now…I just got caught up in the olympics - mens syncronised diving..amazing stuff. Why? what up?

G’day BB …..I take note of what you’re saying about there being not that many Trad players about in the Big Smoke…
In a 120 klm. radius from where I live in Taree,there’s 5 of us ……all relative novices too !
You’d have to have a few more than that in your neck of the woods would’nt yer ???

yeah, more than 5. But it’s a strech to get a couple of sessions going a week.

…but bb, if I learn "The Wickedly Complicated Reel That Nobody Knows" then you’ll have to change the name! I already "Shimmy Up and Down the Fingerboard Like a Deranged Lunatic" but I don’t actually make any music when I do that, so… 🙁 😉

Sorry to miss you bb.
I just liked your comment up there somewhere. Last night I was just looking for someone who mght ave some good input on my thread. Not really a hijack ~ just seeing who was around. Apparently everyone was at Bejing.
My thread is still kinda slow but I did find what I was looking for thanks to a link from WorzelGummidge
Traditionalist view of dynamics
https://thesession.org/discussions/17713/comments#comment368393
Cheers ~ enjoy the Olympics.

Hey Slim - we never had any mammals - we ate all the birds. We had the "world’s biggest drumsticks" eating competition. Imagine the suckers - a bird 3m tall that stomped around… set fire to the forest and watch them waddle toward you! Then boop em over the head.

Hey, how’d we get from a music book to international conspiracies? Yikes!

That’s the NSW coppers for ya, not like that in the sunshine state. Slim.

Brown creeper, "KFM" . Its finger lickin’ good bro.

Mention of BBS certainly promotes discussion. It is sworn by, sworn at, even banned from some sessions.
This info may be somewhere in the discussion, but in case not: a pdf is available, together with a number of other books, from The Celtic Music Club of South Australia web site:
http://cmcadelaide.com/

Hi I have BBS, The Roche Collection, numerous Music from Ireland volumes,Irish Tunes Sean Mcguire, Ceol Rince na hEireann, Matt Cranitch Fiddle book, O’neills 1001 and O’neills music of Ireland, and more and more