Hop jigs

Hop jigs

I’m looking for hop jigs which really "hop", a bit like "Boys of Ballisadare" does, for exemple. Things really syncopated in the construction…?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Isn’t that any hop jig - or slip jig? In 9/8 time? Just go to the search menu and enter slip jig - you’ll get enough to keep you busy for a while.

Re: Hop jigs

It’s all in the interpretation, or, how you play them. With more slow quick or ~ | N2 N N2 N N2 N | ~ rather than the other alternative of ~ | NNN NNN NNN | ~ the more it will bounce rhythmically…

Re: Hop jigs

Let me think of some.
A hop jig is a syncopated slip jig. This is that part of the session tradition where the music is one step away from straight up dance tunes.
In other words the dancers would probably prefer slip jigs to hop jigs.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Guess I was wrong about ‘dancers’ not liking a bit of swing.
hello c

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Hop jigs compare to slip jigs like slides to double jigs: the crotchet - quaver rhythm is predominant with hop jigs, the three quavers rhythm with slip jigs.

Hop Jigs: The Butterfly, The Surround, The Promenade, A Fig for a Kiss, The Foxhunter’s Jig, The Rocky Road to Dublin, Sir Philip Mc Hugh.

Re: Hop jigs

I suppose another way to ask the question is which slip jigs are not hop jigs … ‘Kid on the Mountain’ ?

Posted by .

Hop Jigs = Slip Jigs = Hop Jigs = Slip Jigs = Hop Jigs = Slip Jigs =

In the history of the use of the term ‘hop jig’, it didn’t signify something different from a slip jig. There were one in the same. It has been in a modern context that some folks have tried to associate the term with something ‘different’, often the flat playing of slip jigs fast and as 3/4 instead of 9/8…

For more on this and related distractions do a search here in ‘Discussions’…but better perused under some intoxicating influence, like listening to this tune form performed well, but an accompanying pint of a few shots won’t go wrong either… ;-)

Re: Hop jigs

Better grab another pint & see if it is possible to do a search for ‘flip jigs’

Long blonde hair required.
;)

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

the dusty miller

Re: Hop jigs

9/8 given the 3/4 treatment already mentioned earlier. Yeah, that’s a bit of fun, for the craic, a bit of fluff. That isn’t a definition for ‘hop jig’ as the term was used in the past. It was and is just another term for the same thing, tunes in 9/8 time, slip jigs…

Re: Hop jigs

I do not agree, ceolachan. Maybe you ‘re right from a historical point of view, but making a difference between hop jigs and slip jigs the way I stated out makes sense. The ‘feel’ is very different and hop jgs - like slides - can easily be played a bit faster than slip jigs.

Hop Jigs = Slip Jigs

If you’re calling 3/4 the difference, which some have tried to make a claim for, well, taking the ‘skip’ or ‘hop’ out of the music and turning it to the interesting alternative form of 3/4 ~ nah! That isn’t about the dance or the dancer, that is a bit of fun for the musician, something we do for a bit of fun. I’ll stick to the historic and ‘meaningful’ use of the term ‘hop’, which is what a slip jig has in it when given the swing of a ‘skip’, a ‘hop’, that good old slow quick of N2 N that lifts the feet, gives dance that bit of rhythmic definition and electricity. But, hey, I wouldn’t take away from the fun of trying it on in a 3/4 kind of way. I’ve enjoyed that myself. But there’s nothing ‘hop’ about it… Some folks have even taken to trying to distinguish it with the added term ‘polka’… :-/

Sorry Henk, I’m tired ~

"Hop jigs compare to slip jigs like slides to double jigs: the crotchet - quaver rhythm is predominant with hop jigs, the three quavers rhythm with slip jigs." ~ Henk Bos

That is actually quite reasonable… I though you were backing the thing about playing them 3/4 and that making them ‘hop’ jigs… I actually like that distinction you’ve given, as I’ve used it myself before, with regards to putting more ‘hop’ into a slip jig by focusing more on that crotchet-quaver (N2 N = 1/4note-1/8note) lift…

‘slip’ / ‘hop’

Both terms, ‘slip’ and ‘hop’, refer to characteristics of the dance, the dancing that accompanies the tune form.

Just conjecture, though I’ve done some minimal work there, but I wonder if the influence of ‘country dance’, which was another place where the form was used, would have had more of a smoothing influence on the form, or rounding out the ‘hop’, crotchet-quaver, to 3 quavers? The earlier collections tend to show a preference for the slow-quick beat: = crotchet-quaver = 1/4note-1/8note…

I need to get back to that work. Along with the solo step dancing tradition, the use of this form in country dance has always been an interest to me, including the steps used.

Re: Hop jigs

Thanks for answering, ceolachan, diligent as ever ;-)

Re: Hop jigs

I’m struggling to see what’s "syncopated" in yer average hop jig. Boys of Ballisodare isn’t syncopated at all. Straight up, on the beat.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

protz, check out ‘Battle of Somme’

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Think you ‘re right, benhall.1.

Re: Hop jigs

Hey, you 2 linguists ~ do you play "battle of somme’?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

I’ve played it in the past, but not in that form. I’ve played it more like an air. If you play it just under hop jig speed it becomes a 9/8 march, as is still played by pipe bands. I don’t know how it was originally intended, but I think it’s a red herring, because it ain’t Irish and it ain’t a hop jig. It also happens not to be syncopated in any way. What were you getting at, Random?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Not a red herring. Just trying to get back to protz’ original thought ~ (hop) jigs which really "hop"
"Boys of Ballisodare" is a great example of this if you give it that upbeat ‘lift’
So the real question is, ‘which (hop) jigs does anyone like playing to similar effect?’
I asked about ‘Battle …’ because I like it & wondered if one could play it as a slip jig that hops.
Syncopated was obviously a poor choice of terms. compounded that by using it myself.
Having said that … what is your response to protz’ opening sentence in this thread?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

There’s something which takes by surprise in ‘Boys of Ballisodare’… At the ending of the first to bars, the notes suddenly rush to stop on a ‘g’ (usually cut to emphasize the effect). In other tunes, the melody tends to go on with the same pattern X2X X2X X2X… B.o.B breaks that, I think. That’s what I meant by ‘syncopated in the construction’.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

I’m just a poor French guy :-)

Posted by .

“The Battle of the Somme” R: retreat march / lament

C: Pipe Major William Laurie, 1882 - 1916
Key signature: D Major
Submitted on August 29th 2003 by dafydd.
https://thesession.org/tunes/2923
https://thesession.org/tunes/2923/comments

;-) I love 9/8 marches too, and this one is particularly sweet, including played with ‘lament’ in mind… But as said already, there ain’t a hop or a slip in it, but bittersweet it is…

Re: Hop jigs

yes ~ bittersweet
no hopping on the retreat.
thanks c. I have never been able to find anyone who will play this with me.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

What’s my response? I don’t know, ‘cos I still don’t really understand. I’m probably just not as clever as you, Random …

I play few hop jigs. Do they really ‘hop’? I’ve no idea, ‘cos, like I say, I don’t understand.

Having said that, my favourite is, and has always been Top it Off:

https://thesession.org/tunes/2608

I play it quite differently though - learnt ages ago - in Clare, I think …

Does that one do it for you, protz?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

That should have been "I play a few …" as in *quite* a few, aka lots (so far as one is able to play lots, there not being that many such tunes around, compared with other tune types) …

… sorry, just got the agaves in - moved them to their winter quarters, which is upsatirs in the house. They weigh a ton, and I’m literally shaking now from the effort …

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

LOL
"I’m probably just not as clever as you, Random …"
If anyone from y session sees that comment I’ll never hear the end of it.
Cheers.

I wouldn’t say I understand so well either. I am just gong with Henk Bos description
"Hop jigs compare to slip jigs like slides to double jigs: the crotchet - quaver rhythm is predominant with hop jigs, the three quavers rhythm with slip jigs."

Posted by .

*

pardon my typos

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Good call on ‘Top it Off’ Ben.
This is clever;
I have been having great fun with this one, playng just the one melody in its different forms and in variations, here’s one direction I’ve taken it:

9/8 Slip Jig ~ 9/8 Hop Jig ~ 3/4 Highland ~ 4/4 Highland ~ 4/4 Reel"
Posted on April 21st 2006 by ceolachan

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

"That should have been "I play a few …" as in *quite* a few, aka lots" ~ ben

WHEW! You had me worried… :-D

Re: Hop jigs

Yep, Random, I go with Henk’s description too. And also with ceol, in that it’s clear that, at one time, there was no distinction, at least not between two types of tune, hop and slip jigs. Although there were a great many *more* distinctions between individual tunes …

But, if you just take Henk’s description as your starting point, well then, that is just an invitation to list as many hop jigs as possible. I thought protz was trying to get at a particular *type* of hop jig. It’s *that* that threw me, ‘cos I can’t get what type he means … not sure there *are* differet types, in fact … :-/

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Cheers ben. thanks for the tune. I still cannot think of one. Odd because I love watching the (slip jig) dance.
Keep those agaves warm..

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

I will, Random … I’m still trying to work out when to find time to post the version of Top it Off that I play. It’s a fair bit different … much nicer. :-)

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

" but I wonder if the influence of ‘country dance’, which was another place where the form was used, would have had more of a smoothing influence on the form, or rounding out the ‘hop’, crotchet-quaver, to 3 quavers? The earlier collections tend to show a preference for the slow-quick beat: = crotchet-quaver = 1/4note-1/8note…"

Ceolachan -
How would a slip jig be used by the dancer in country dancing? Three steps instead of four? Or nine?

C. Nicolas

Re: Hop jigs

In more contemporary use, as for ‘Strip the Willow’, it is just a running step throughout, 3s = 123 = | N3 N3 N3 |…

You’ll probably miss this Ben, but I wanna see!!! ~ & give your take on it a go… ;-)

Re: Hop jigs

No, I haven’t missed it, ceol. That would be my take on top it Off, I guess?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Whew! ~ a trolling we will go… :-D I still wanna see…

Send me a recording and I’ll transcribe it for you…

Re: Hop jigs

Now don’t wind me up there … You should know by now I’m a sensitive soul.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Yes… It’s one of your qualities I’ve learned to appreciate… :-)

Re: Hop jigs

Anyway, as you know, my ABCs and understanding of the dots are rubbish. My ear simply isn’t up to it. ;-)

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

In fact, I’m better IN PERFORMANCE at a session.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Stuck in a corner behind a chain of pints and hiding behind everybody else… :-D

I said I’d transcribe you for yourself, and the pleasure of others…

Re: Hop jigs

I love the emphasis ~ IN PERFORMANCE!!! :-P

Re: Hop jigs

Damn, I’m procrastinatin’, I’ve gotta run. Don’t get rude while I’m away in the reel world…

Re: Hop jigs

Ooh, sorry, did I say a rude word? :-) :-) :-)

GUITARS!!!!!
B**LL*CKS!!!!!
BODHRÁNS!!!!!
FECK!!!!!
ARSE!!!!!
GIRLS!!!!!
DRINK!!!!!

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

We don’t need no stinking ABCs.
Put ‘Top it Off’ on SoundLantern.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

No, but seriously, sessions ARE performances, aren’t they?

… and ABCs and dots are the way to go …

… and why oh why aren’t there more bodhrán solos in sessions?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Really? Our bodhran player gets a solo. He says it’s a tradition older than sticks & rocks.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Well, Random and ceolachan … I’ve put it up on Sound Lantern … off you go then, let’s hear yours. :-)

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Thanks benhall.
Don’t hold your breath.
It will take a bit of time for me to record something I feel good about. ;)

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

God, if I’d waited for that, Random, I’d never have bothered.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Yes you would. What’s up though? SoundLantern is down on my server for the time being.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Hmmm … it’s working on my computer …

Now … I’m puzzling over what you meant by that "Yes you would." Does that mean that I don’t care what I sound like, so I put it up there even though I know it’s rubbish?

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

The connection is working again.
Sounds good Ben.
All I am saying is that you do take the time to post on SoundLantern. It is not rubbish. You bother enough to put up some fine music However, if I put up my own recording at this moment that would be rubbish.
I will let you know.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Ah. Right. Well, I’m doing my best … What I could do with is some better recording equipment, to be honest. I’m just using a very cheap computer mike plugged straight into my laptop and recorded using Audacity. I think I need an Olympus or a Zoom or something. Don’t want to spend the money though …

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

I am listening to the whistle jigs. Sounds like Alan has done a good job recording.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

Yeah. He *has* got one of those proper thingies - Olympus or something.

Thanks for listening, Random! :-)

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

You guys are asking for it. I’m going to further my work on transcribing percussion and add some bodhran, bones and spoons solos on site here…oh yeah, and some ceili band snare work… 8-)

Re: Hop jigs

Oh yeah ~ AND ~ thanks for the ear full Ben… ;-)

Re: Hop jigs

Ceol - you could go the whole hog and add the shaky egg and lagerphone elements as well. I’ll give you a hand with the polkas and slides. You can’t overlook clapsticks and djembe either….tee hee.

Posted by .

Re: Hop jigs

I’d actually transcribed Ben’s take on "Top it Off", and he was right, a lovely version of the tune. I’ve been enjoying playing through it, and as it had come up here in topic was considering teaching his way with it… I was in the process of adding it to the ‘comments’ when the shight hit the fan, for which I accept responsibility, clumsy ass that I sometimes am…

https://thesession.org/tunes/9068/comments
Mea culpa! :-(