Examples of “geantraí”

Examples of “geantraí”

I watch the programs under the Ceoil button on www.Tg4.tv, and I don’t really understand what geantraí means. It’s a dance measure? Like a jig or something? Why is the term not popularly used? Also, Steve Cooney was on the program documenting the life of Séamus Goodman, and he discussed a dance type from the collection transcribed 150 years ago that was unlike any other beat in Irish music. He played an example of it, and I wonder if anyone knows of other examples of the dance type he discussed? Lastly, whoever these nasty nerds are that feel it their right to rip into musicians on these discussion boards, I can’t begin to say how much it disgusts me, and I’m sure other decent people. The spirit in which these comments are made is so hostile and counter-productive to the project of Irish cultural renaissance, I am surprised there is so little objection to their obnoxious know-it-allism.

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I think it’s like this - ancient Irish music was supposed (fancifully or otherwise) to exist in three main categories of use: sociable music, sad or lamentational music, and music that would send you to sleep. "Geantrai" were tunes / pieces of the sociable kind. I think the sad ones were "goltrai" and the sleep-inducing ones were "suantrai", but may be mistaken here.

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So I think the name "geantrai" doesn’t have anything to say about *metre* - except that I would imagine jolly, sprightly pieces probably went along at a brisk pace in general.

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Niall Ó Dónaill’s dictionary gives geantraí as (in literary use) ‘laughter-producing music’, or alternatively a ‘piece of light music’.

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In his ‘Folk Music and Dances of Ireland’, Breandaán Breathnach posits that, ‘in olden times’, the three ‘thirds’ into which Irish music was divided, and which Nicholas names, refer only to instrumental music (not dancing).

Breathnach quotes the legendary account of the battle between the Tuatha dé Danaan and the piratical Fomorians, the latter being seen off and overcome by the good god, Dagda, with his magic harp:

"He plays the goltraí until their women weep; he plays the geantraí until their women and youths burst into laughter; and he plays the suantraí until the whole host falls asleep."

The uplifting message from this for all us improvers is: should people laugh at your playing, don’t worry- it’s normal, it’s geantraí…

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get hold of a copy of Tony MacMahon - MacMahon from Clare. First thing on track 1 (An Buachailin Ban) he explains the 3 ‘types’ of Irish music.

https://thesession.org/recordings/display/1902

as for slagging geantrai, well, i think in a lot of instances it deserves it. poorly shot, bad sound, some terrible presenters whose music is plastered all over the program; it is put forward as a representation of ‘local’ music but that isn’t the case at all, and a lot of the time the music is of a low standard or, in some cases, not irish at all.

But we’re all entitled to an opinion. This is after all a discussion board, and would be as useless as "tits on a bull" if we all thought the exact same way about every aspect of the tradition. You refer to "nasty nerds" - by this do you mean people of a strong opinion who know what they’re talking about? Like what ‘geantrai’ means? Maybe you could learn something from them, as you obviously still have a fair amount to learn yourself.

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There’s also room for basic courtesy and politeness on the board- it’s not a battleground. Some people have trouble with the difference between discussion and argument.

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Not a battleground, P-K? I’ve been hit by many a sling and arrow of outrageous response since I signed up!

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"Lastly, whoever these nasty nerds are that feel it their right to rip into musicians on these discussion boards, I can’t begin to say how much it disgusts me, and I’m sure other decent people. The spirit in which these comments are made is so hostile and counter-productive to the project of Irish cultural renaissance, I am surprised there is so little objection to their obnoxious know-it-allism."

Couldn’t agree more. They disgust me too. Opinions are one thing, so are folks tastes but some of these folk are revolting and though they think they know it all they just make themselves look clueless.

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I think it interesting that "scratch your arse" was asking in this thread was geantrai like a jig or something and around the same time, he was giving a lecture on how to play the fiddle in another thread??? Maybe a wind up?As for the quality of geantrai, I don’t see any "geantrai abú" or indeed anyone singing it’s praises after last night’s episode!!

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I guess he’s just joined, so give the guy a chance- he’ll get the measure of it soon enough.
Sorry for your trouble, Mix- but, as they say, what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger!

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"he’ll get the measure of it soon enough"- he sure will P-K or die ! I think there is a need here for a war veterans club, those who like Mix says have suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous…fortune/behaviour/response??? ;)

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Have to agree with the sentiments expressed (perhaps a little heavily) by SYA regarding the knockers on this site - they’d be better off over on the other aptly named Ire-Trad site. I missed last night’s programme but will hopefully catch the repeat. I see it came from Belfast and, with all the great trad up there, I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t another great programme.

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Those slings and arrows trouble me not at all - all part of the fun!

… and its easy enough to dip those arrows in poison before returning them …

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My hunch is that Mr.Arse is young- hence the passion (and the name)- and a very good and instinctive player/performer- hence the disgust at the recent badmouthing of players/performers.
If that hunch is correct, Watson, I don’t really find it strange that he doesn’t know geantraí, while still being able to advise on feeling your way into the music.
Takes us back to the conundrum of top players not knowing the tunes names- a disgrace, obviously, but what can you do?

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"counter-productive to the project of Irish cultural renaissance."

Um, good luck with that.

Let me know when you’re done, then I can tell the Irish population so that they might be as enlightened as your good self.

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Gee Bannerman, as you know I am one of those "knockers" and I went looking for that site ! Anyone got a link?
Like I said before, anyone that doesn’t toe the party line- off with their heads!

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"Takes us back to the conundrum of top players not knowing the tunes names- a disgrace, obviously, but what can you do?"

I seem to recall reading in the liner notes from the album ‘Liam Farrell and Joe Whelan - They Sailed Away from Dublin Bay’ a quote from Liam saying,"if you know the name of every tune you play, then you don’t know enough tunes!" Haven’t got album in front of me, so quote could be a little off, but I’m sure you get by drift.

Wouldn’t say it’s a disgrace not to know the name of the tune. Many of the tunes have multiple names - just look in the tune section on this site.

"What’s in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

Billy Shakespeare, 1594.

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um, P-K are you serious about ‘top players not knowing the tune names - a disgrace’ or are you winding people up?

i hope its the latter. as for geantrai last night, i wasnt’ impressed, talk about wannabe lunasa…poor i thought.

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wannabe august? why would you want to be august when it’s almost xmas? no presents in lunasa. no presents on stage, no presents on tape. only presents in December.

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It’s amazing how selective people can be when supporting in this case Irish music- Not so long ago, it was mentioned on this site that a branch of Comhaltas, who were in a very understandable disagreement with Comhaltas headquarters, were running a concert to raise funds; and the very people now judging others for being dissatisfied with a TV programme wouldn’t support the same concert?

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lol.

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thought u like that fiddleruari. merry xmas to you and yours. see u in the new yr.

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fiddleruairi- me winding people up? - would I do that? :)

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Saw geantrai last night. Fantastic! Best yet. Loads of new tunes that I haven’t heard before and great playing. I really liked the last tune by McSherry and O’Connor. Is it a new composition?

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Why the anti-criticism backlash?? Should we all pat the Geantraí folk on the head and say:

‘Ah shure ‘tis grawnd altogether this Oirish musick, us in the thrad crowd are all fluthery-eyed drunk most of the time and won’t know the difference if its good or a load of old shoite.’

Sorry but that won’t wash I’m afraid. A fair bit of it is cringeworthy for various reasons. Last night had some good moments but also some less good ones (the singer; the sax improv; Maeve saying how much respect she had for Zoe; some of the new tunes). As a musician who has learnt the trade for long enough then I’m entitled to my 2 cents I think.

Though ‘Irish cultural renaissance’ does smell like a windup. If this is a cultural renaissaince would Larry be Ireland’s Cosimo de’ Medici ?????

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he’s more like irish musics quasimodo.

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Fair enough continuo. You are entitled to your two cents. Now go and cheer yourself up with a good old fashioned pat on the back. Ha!

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" Maeve saying how much respect she had for Zoe"- whilst Zoe loooked on half amazed and half embarrassed !! LOL

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Ah fiddlestrings ! Sarcasm doesn’t suit you at all at all. Like we said, we are just voicing our opinions. Should we not? Or perhaps our opinions don’t count?Emperors New Clothes perhaps? Or maybe we are all equal but some are more equal than others?

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Cheer up! It’s Christmas. ;-)

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I don’t know the names of most of the tunes I play, but it certainly doesn’t follow that I’m a "top player". However, I have no hesitation in playing the age card :-)

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The age card, lazyhound? Is that the same as the bus pass? If so, I still think you qualify for a seat on the top deck.

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It’s always the same ould shoite, isn’t it. Some people just don’t like change. A fear of the word ‘New’. It’s kinda funny but sad too. ;-(

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I do have to say that at least with geantraí I know there will be at least a decent chunk of music going on that is decently recorded.

Not that I don’t enjoy trolling through You Tube for clips of various sessions all over, but usually these are on Uncle Bob’s video cam. At least TG4 has a professional film crew! :-P

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All depends on how you play the same oul shoite ;-(
As for that self indulgent opening clip, a sentence with words like attic and rope came to mind ! Or shotgun !!

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Concertinaplayer, you definitely need cheering up. You don’t seem like a happy camper. You alright? you should’nt let things get you down so. ;-)

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Nah fiddlestrings, I’m ok. Was with your mam last night

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See, this is what these people are like. If they’re not slagging people off, then they’re at this sort of craic. Highly intelligent.

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Wow, we could get a whole run of session-flavored ‘your momma’ jokes.

Your momma is the one who asks for "The Wild Rover".
Your momma plays bodhran on airs.
Your momma noodles, and not for dinner.
Your momma is so wack, she likes geantraí.

etc. etc.

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Who are "these people" fiidlestrings? Don’t be tarring us all with the one brush, the rest of "these people" are nice- it’s just me ! i’m the rotten apple in the barrell

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Ah, go on. Cheer up. It’s Christmas! :-)

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"Some people just don’t like change. A fear of the word ‘New’. It’s kinda funny but sad too. ;-("

Actually I have a fear of sh*te Irish music. I can’t help it you see, I’ve had this affliction for a long time now and can’t seem to shake it. Someone call a doctor for christs sake!

I don’t mind ‘New’ ITM if its done well, its just that so little of it is any good IMHO, so yes fiddlestrings it is funny AND sad too - listening to some episodes of Geantrai I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

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"Actually I have a fear of sh*te Irish music. I can’t help it you see, I’ve had this affliction for a long time now and can’t seem to shake it. Someone call a doctor for christs sake!"

Well VocalDivaSteed, I’m a doctor and I think you have a severe case of ‘pureits’. And I don’t think your ‘humble opinion’ is so humble. I recommend a years holiday in the north pole. ;-)

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Who made you king o’ the Ceoil, Mr Scratch? Strong opinions make
good reading and get you to think about stuff.

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All the musicians ever on geantri ever in the whole time ever are complete sh*te. Have to agree with Mr Scratch here - the amount of feckwits on this site is unbelievable. But I’m sure your good selves are 100% right about everything. You are irish after all….god how I wish I were Irish - its all that I dream about. To be a real irish and then I’d know about irish music as only a real irish person could.

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Oh - that changed my f*u*c*k wit to feck wit - how sad.

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Too right, shoddy, I’m with you all the way. I haven’t even watched the show yet I just instinctively know all of the players on it are all crap. And as for the amount of feckwits on this site, it’s mindboggling. The ones who give out about everyone else saying they are brainless nasty nerds that feel it their right to rip into musicians on these discussion boards, are the worst……….

err…. I think anyway…..

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Oh - it must of come out wrong - I was agreeing with scratch about the bitchy slagging of musicians by people on this site while hiding behind fake screen names. We all know the truth - these little people would never talk to the musicians they didnt like to their face in this fashion. I think its sad that they think they are clever to do it on a website. All that stuff with damien mullane - just sad really. Talk about fecktards.

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So why are you not using your real name, shoddy?
As for me I just f@rt about with aliases, as many people here know me in real life and also my so-called online personna, but I don’t mind using my real name, Danny Mackay, of Glasgow resident in London, flute box and whistle. There are some clips on you tube somewhere. No big deal. As for me I don’t think I’d slag off the ability of anyone whom I know is of superior talent than me (ie many) but that said there are some recordings by known good players which i might not be fond of, and don’t mind sharing that opinion. It’s the discussion section after all.

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Danny - its bb. I changed it to shoddy because skip canlon said I was a shoddy player. i wasnt trying to hide behind the name at all.

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Aha! Hi bb. Well, he must be a pretty handy genius himself then, to be giving out about your playing, going by those clips I listened to a year ot two ago, because they were really nice.

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thanks Danny, I appreciate it- someone emailed me out of the blue the other day telling me about how much they liked one of the clips - I tell you this - I’d listen to this persons opinion on trad above just about anyone in the world. And if this person said it was ok - then I am happy. I am only heartbroken that I didnt win skips approval - but I dare say..I’ll get over it - and quite quickly too.

There is a big difference about saying that you dont like a recording or even that you dont like someones style than getting on her and proclaiming that ‘so and so its utterly sh*t’ and it always seems to come back to people saying that they just have good taste in music - like skinnyleggs saying to damien mullane that he was bet with the ‘I dont have sh*te taste in music stick’ what a loser.

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Oh I missed that. Damien is a great player and a very nice young guy. Unpretentious, modest and generous. I’ve only had the priveledge of being sat in session with him once. He actually even complimented my playing so he must be very generous and forgiving. :-)
Ach a lot of the sh!te that goes on on this website is just like a soap opera, I just don’t even bother taking it seriously (except stalker-type emails). These days I just come on here mostly for a bit of a laugh and a gossip. As for real music, 3 classy sessions at my local in the space of 5 days. And I’m talking local - 2 minutes away. Beers (or drinks) on the house as well. There’s hardly any need for me to crawl out of Lewisham/Catford these days. Bring the mountain to Mohammed, I say.

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Oh I didnt realise that McSherry and o’Connor were on the program. That proves my point even more - you bitchy fake names dont have a f*cking clue do you. Imagine slagging those two off.

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Sad, innit, beebs

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I didnt realise that you’d missed it danny - it was like a blood bath. Ive never been so embarrassed to be a member of this site ever..and that is saying alot cause there has been lots of horrid stuff posted up her. Just tearing strips of damien - really sick stuff. Its the Geantri Kerry thread.

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Oh, right. I see - that *is* bad. As I say, I don’t keep up to date on here lately but I’ll have a look. But going by what you say, and I trust your viewpoint bb, that’s really out of order, and DM shouldn’t be subject to that.
I dare say, he, as a monster blue whale of a player, would know better than to worry about the odd minnow or plankton trying to nip at him.
As for me (minnow) I have other things happening in real life to preoccupy me. The outlook of which is not as grim as it was 2 months ago. But I have to keep on its case.

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He was upset enough to respond - he tried to be reasonable - hahaahaa - as if that would work with this ones.

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Terry Gilliam - thanks Ray

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i think shoddy fiddle player and alf should get a room……

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Well, it’s good to see there are some decent folk on the site. There is a big difference between criticism and vitriol. In all my years playing trad I’ve always found good and great players to at least respect other good players even if the don’t like the style. Good players usually appreciate the background in reaching a decent, far less an advanced level, and don’t usually call even mediocre players crap. That’s why I don’t believe the vitriolics have a decent tune between the lot of them.

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Of course, It could be that they’re either kids or just very immature.

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skip - you really are a loser. You sound immature beyond belief. Poor little skip- are you bored being you? Because you sound boring and it would explain your need to continue insulting musicians all the time. What age are you - around 10, because that is what you sound like.

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Oh - they are deffo young. You can tell.

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i must say i’m very pleased that my comments had such an effect on you that you changed your name bb. I wonder if I start calling Alf Tupper ”pickle sniffer’ will he change his name too?

I find it funny that you pair are so precious about music you seem to know so little about. The whole subject of this discussion was born out of you not knowing what ‘Geantrai’ means, and as you can tell from the initial posts, the info is easily found - in the work of Breandán Breathnach and a commercial release by Tony MacMahon; two highly regarded figures in traditional music. Yet you feel it ok to come on here, ask advice, then have a go at the same people for having opinions that you don’t like?!?!? You seem to be moronic Danny.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion. Yours is one born out of ignorance and arrogance, a lethal combination. But that’s ok, maybe you’ll learn with time.

Merry xmas to all!

:)

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Skip - I am not surprised that you would feel pleased about that. It seems just the kind of thing you would be pleased about. You think I know nothing about this music. Good for you, because amazingly enough I don’t actually care what some idiot hiding behind a screen name who spouts the most ridiculous stuff about other musicians thinks. Especially one who has as bad taste as you.


I didn’t start this thread, so I really have no idea why you are going on about me not knowing what Geantrai means or why I started this thread. Who is Tony MacMahon?

Merry Christmas Skip - I will try harder to learn more about this music. although I’m just an ignorant and arrogant person I will try to persevere, thanks for your incredibly helpful tips and hints about learning music. You are obviously an expert on.. I look forward to your next pearl of wisdom

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Oh - I am not precious about the music. Far from it. I just don’t think its very clever to slag musicians as being sh*te and crap when they are just playing a style you don’t like. Talk about ignorant.

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"Who is Tony MacMahon?"

Sometimes is just too easy. You have the audacity to call me an idiot and say I have bad taste in music. Just to prove that I’m actually a nice guy, here’s my christmas present to you. Enjoy reading about him and listening to him, he’s awesome:

http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/webrevs/maccd001.htm
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/macmahon.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P26i_g_RjE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_leFY8oFbg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOyvvKLkbCQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8krXkUUdQas&feature=related



oh, and just for s hits and giggles, check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uiInAcPij4&feature=related


there’s a couple of clips I can’t find, including one of him with Noel Hill, also one with Ciaran MacMathuna presenting - Tony plays like Sonny Brogan on it. Actually on the Come West Along the Road video - which Tony MacMahon presents.

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Ha! As I suspested, SkipCanlon is one of those Tony McMahon freaks. Think they know it all.

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Patrick, the reason the producer don’t always go with the first take is due to their own warts, not those of the musicians. If the musicians aren’t happy with their performance it’s usually just tough luck but the producer won’t let their own warts show through bad camera angles or audio. But you’re right that it’s difficult to keep your enthusiasm playing the same set, the same way to the same audience 3 or 4 times in a row.

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oohhh, I’m a freak now. Please do elaborate fiddlestrings - freak like in a 19th century sideshow, or like a groupie at a Frank Zappa and the Mothers concert? I’d like to know, so I can add it to the list of other insults I’ve gotten on this site.

You see I can take to abuse, because there’s nothing behind it. You call me ignorant, but you don’t even know simple facts about the music, never mind having the intelligence to interpret that knowledge and have any clear understanding.

So enjoy your ‘pop’ trazzy rubbish. Enjoy Mullane and all them other fools making cash off the tradition by bastardising it to make it more palatable to the masses. I’m sure you’ll love the latest instalment of Geantrai:

http://www.tg4.ie/clar/gean/geannol.asp

Yes, Mundy is quite clearly the new Joe Heaney.

He, he, reminds me off a song by the boomtown rats!

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Skipcanlon, Your arrogance speaks volumes! :-)

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Truth in what you say, Bogman. A carol service I was playing in on Sunday and which was being recorded for later broadcasting on the radio on Christmas Day was in fact two back-to-back 90-minute services with two separate congregations in the church (probably getting on for 1000 in each service). A problem for the band musicians (but not the choir) was that we had placed on our stands some items of music that we hadn’t had time to rehearse during the sound-check beforehand, so the first service was in fact our rehearsal. We like to think we got most of it right the second time round!
Anyway, I understand the broadcast will use the best bits from both services.

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don’t think that there is any doubt that there is a nice way and a not nice way of commenting on lots of things including musicians and their playing. In another words being diplomatic and not. But I don’t remember especially in the context of Geanntrai that anyone came here and said that so and so was/is a bad/crap musician. It might have been said but I don’t remember it that way. What has been said is that people don’t like a certain person’s playing or how they played a certain tune or the sound from their box/fiddle etc.
I have heard Damien Mullane playing on a couple of Comhaltas clips and I think he is a fine box player and it would be no trouble for me to listen to him playing all night. However on the episode from Kerry, I didn’t like the set he played,the waltz and the reel. And surely it is my right to say that, especially here. I am not saying he is a bad player, but that I didn’t like that particular example of his playing.
But there is no doubt also that there are people here who have their own agenda and any critical comment is seen as a threat. There are people here from a certain organisation, an organisation that has done terrible harm to regional style and so when they see professional bands on a programme from a rural area, bands that don’t live next or near to the location, then it is no wonder they "love it". After all, once again the regional styles are being neglected !
For me, there is also another reason to be critical of some of these programmes- that is the "closed shop" nature. In Ireland, the so called professional scene is very small and very self serving and if you are not in, you can’t win. If you watch closely, most programmes made by/for RTE will feature these names and these in turn continually promote their own. If you watch the credits , you will see the same names come up time and time again in production and so when these bands get featured at the expense of local musicans it is no wonder. Now don’t get me wrong, if you are in the inner circle, then happy days. But if, like a lot of situations, you are outside trying to get in, then you will soon find it a closed door.
A recent example would be the Geanntrai programme from Kilcock, County Kildare( twenty mins from me). The area around West Dublin. East Kildare has loads of players. Guys and gals who have been playing years and have nourished and promoted playing in the area for over thirty years.Were they given a chance?No !Who was on it ? One of the Begleys ! From over two hundred miles away ! A professional group who were given two or was it three slots whilst the young local players who opened the programme got the opening three reels, some of which were used in the opening sequence as the programme name came up. In the Leitrim programme, Lunasa, who are well establised and don’t need a helping hand, and who have plenty of work, given two slots, whilst local players, from Leitrim, East Sligo, North Roscommon all ignored. Apart from the exposure to regional styles, maybe these local people could have done with the few bob?Imagine if you are a local player, maybe out of what’s called "proper work", trying to make a few bob with your music, and a film company come to town to record music and you can’t get a look in, regardless of your talent.
Sure,if you like to hear Irish trad music played professionally, if you are particualrly fond of Lunasa say, by all means be delighted when you turn on the TV or the computer but try to bear in mind that not everyone in Ireland sees these programmes as a God send.
bb asked some time back about up and coming musicans. Well Geanntrai is not the place to see them ! To finish, the programme to my mind, shows a huge laziness in the approach of the producers. Instead of doing some research and finding out who is in an area, who’s playing well, who would it be good to hear, they just go for the old reliables, give them the exposure, the work and the money. In the Clondalkin episode, the Glackins were featureed. Firstly they don’t live next or near to Clondalkin. Secondly, musicians like Martin Nolan( who has to supplement his earning as a musician by working in a shop) are teaching a hundred yards away, Gavin Whelan another musician from close by, trying to make a living from music etc were all ignored whilst others were brought in from the far side of the city.
Compare this to Ceili House or the Bloom Of Youth on radio. In Ceili House, Kieran Hanrahan goes in to an area and interviews and gives air time to the locals. You don’t hear him going into Galway, and featuring professional bands and those from the far side of the country!
Yes there is a way to say you don’t like someone’s playing without annoying people but for this punter, I stand over my dislike of the series.

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btw, would some kind person like to indicate how "geantrai" is pronounced, for the benefit of those of us who don’t have Gaelic.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

The first part could be pronounced like gann as in gannet. The second part could as in tree. So it would be gann/tree. But in certain dialect, the geann bit would be more like….well geann?? the "e" changes it to something like how Ceannne would be said. So it could be Ceeeanne and then Geean..tree. That’s the best way I can describe it right now??

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Interesting post- thanks, concertinaplayer, for demonstrating that opinions can be expressed in a civil manner.

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Oh ! I have just seen the line up for Christmas version of Geantrai !! Shane McGowan !! And I see Sharon has yet another band ! Just gets better !
Even fiddleruairi has been transported across country from Meath to Galway for the gig !!!!!

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mwahaha! concertinaplayer caught me! although i definately fall into the category of ‘struggling student who needs the money’. lol. im only an accompanist anyway.

although i will say about that programme that its a showcase of the four provinces, yours truly and mo mhaim,;Leinster
kanes. Connacht
Sliabh notes. munster
and im pretty sure the singer is from ulster though i could be wrong. the location switches between there in headford and another location in galway, its always the same two.

but there was a geantrai from meath around three weeks ago, the group of which were on none of the members live in meath. sure there are plenty of great musicians that live in meath, michael o’r, mcgabhanns, nic cabas, etc. so, i dunno…

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concertinaplayer has summed it up pretty well. What needs to be emphasised, and is often unseen, is the behind the scenes culture of entitlement that pervades these programmes. The culture was established with RTE. When you look at old studio shots of audiences in, say, Come West Along the Road who do you see ? All the same young musicians that now present a lot of the shows. It’s very often a family thing. Presenters and producers latch onto their favourite musicians and put them at the top of the speed dial list so they’re always the first called. It is very disheartening to always see the same faces talking about themselves and their friends, particularly on Irish speaking shows when you know well that many of the musicians can barely "abair cúpla focal" when there are great musicians in the area who speak Irish fluently. It has to be said that Meatti Jo Sheamuis on RnaG does a great job of getting around the country and recording real musicians in real situations.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Well, fiddleruairi,
You’re playing Geantrai. Ha! I’ill be watching and see how you compare to eveybody else who people have ripped into. ;-)

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"Even fiddleruairi has been transported across country from Meath to Galway for the gig !!!!!"

Et tu, Brutei? :)

I don’t think anybody, even the most staunch critics of Geantrai could say there is no good music on the program. There is, but the show seems to be made for sky+ ; i.e. it’s real handy to be able to fast forward thru the garbage to the good stuff. I thought the episode from Dublin was really good - the vast majority of the music was very high quality. Much better than the first show in the series. The argument over location is a valid one. Not that there is a problem with having a program that show cases music from around the country, but the way it is put across is that the show is representative of a location, which it isn’t.

concertinaplayer made some excellent points about the program. I think the problem with a lot of the chumps on this site who don’t like people criticising is they forget that the critics are usually huge fans of the music with a deep passion, and the misrepresentation of the music really gets their back up.

I for one look forward to hearing fiddleruairi on the show - he has well informed opinions on the music and can play extremely well. Rather than provoking individuals like himself, fiddlestrings, maybe you should shut up and take onboard some of the advice he could give you. It might improve your knowledge of the music and stop you from looking like a fool everytime you dance on the qwerty.

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"maybe you should shut up and take onboard some of the advice he could give you. It might improve your knowledge of the music.."

Well Skip canlon, you’ve revealed your total arrogance yet again. Please shove your opinions down somebody elses throat. My knowledge of the music could hardly be improved by the likes of you.
And I also look forward with great anicipation to the next geantrai. ;-)

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i can see it now fiddlestrings, everyone sitting down to their dinner with their notepads and writing down a critique of me at the same time. lol.


…or perhaps not! lol

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Oh and by the way Skip canlon, you sound very much like one of those raving loones that wave the "Tony McMahon Irish traditional music bible" at everybody and then try and stuff it down their throats. Take a chill pill man! ;-)

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thats not meant to be taking any p*ss out of you fiddlestrings by the way. anyway, i’m actually turning over a new leaf and trying not to get into arguments (anymore). i have certainly criticised musicians in the past but out of my own musical taste and not that others are bad like concertina said in his point there.

thanks skip for the kind words. we’ll have to have tunes again soon, maybe next time ur in dublin, b4 the cousin goes to australia anyway (in april).

but i can see people criticising my style after the programme, the old ‘copycat’ argument. but hopefully not!!! just take me on my merits. watch and see anyhoo.

im back to my sickbed, currently dying at the moment.

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Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Concertinaplayer, thank you for that pronunciation lesson - it was appreciated.

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see, you constantly refer to my arrogance, yet I pass no comment on my own playing, nor compare it to anyone else’s.

You assume I’m one of the MacMahon bible bashers, but this isn’t the case. The initial post asked about the meaning of the word Geantrai, I gave a reference to a recording by macmahon which explains it, then gave links to him for someone else who hadn’t heard of him. Yes, I do think he’s an amazing musician, and if a line is drawn between ‘purist’ and ‘evolutionists’ in ITM, as it was at the Crossroads conference in 1996, I would be on the same side as MacMahon. But I like to be independent of thought, not divorced from it, like yourself.

If you’d like to engage in a civil discussion of music, by all means work away, but so far all you’ve posted is reactionary - it’s easy to slag everyone off for criticising, but at least these people articulate their reasons for their views. Where’s the evidence of your thought process? None, your comments are shallow, merely looking for reaction.

I look foward to your next retort - let me guess - I’m arrogant!

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Yes Skip canlon, you guessed right. But anyway, I have read a lot of your posts and I draw my own conclusions from them. You come across as arrogant, obnoxious, all knowing, self important, and downright nasty. I could go on but Have to go. Anyway, as I said before "Cheer up!". It’s Christmas.
;-)

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"Yes Skip canlon, you guessed right. But anyway, I have read a lot of your posts and I draw my own conclusions from them. You come across as arrogant, obnoxious, all knowing, self important, and downright nasty."

I think I have a fan!

Let me guess, the christmas card’s in the post, right?

:)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

"see, you constantly refer to my arrogance, yet I pass no comment on my own playing, nor compare it to anyone else’s"

Well Skip canlon, Looks like I’m gonna have to give you a language lesson.
You can be arrogant in your own opinion which you truely are and maybe the reason you don’t pass comment on your own playing is because you’re not that hot yourself. That’s probably why you feel the need to put other people down. Put the bible away and chill out a bit. You’ll give yourself a heart attack!
Anyway, really have to go. Happy Christmas. Toodaloo. :-)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

thanks for the lesson, much appreciated.

You’re right, I put people down to make myself bigger. I think the reason for this is because I’m only 4’6" tall. Your speculation on my playing is spot on. You truly have a keen insight.

Enjoy your christmas, I look forward to being ‘educated’ by you again in the new year.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

That’s edumacated not "educated".
;-)

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someone get fiddlestrings a dictionary for xmas. or at least show him how to use the spell check on his computer. Can’t have the ‘teacher’ using colloquialisms and slang when he’s EDUCATING the masses.

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Cool, I hadn’t realised Damien Mullane had thrown down a challenge to all of the critics on the other page.

Concertinaplayer, great post on the subject, especially in comparing Ceili House and RnaG to Geantrai (and other TV trad programmes).

I still think that these hold:

i) Once you play/broadcast in public, then you have to be open to criticism and comment.
ii) thesession.org allows anonymous comments. While it does, then no one has any right to accuse people of hiding - this is built into the system, so anyone who wants to remain anonymous can do so.

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Sorry critical postings from cowards who refuse to give their name or even what country they are from or what instrument they play even are worth as much as my farts, far too many are just trolls.
If you want what you say to mean something ,even if I disagree with you. You should give your name or at least make it so your name or provenance can be worked out.
Ok llig does not give his name as such but if you cannot work it out see you local doctor and give up your MENSA membership

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Wow- thanks Skip. I appreciate the videos of Tony MacMahon, its good to learn about new players. But just one question…who is Noel Hill?

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PS skip - I just read your new profile and when I did that I seem to remember vocalsteeddiva starting a thread about how rude it is and then you jumping on the bandwagon saying that I was a shoddy musicians. Are you copying now?

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Re: Examples of “geantraí”

shows what you know- Noel Hill is the name of a townland in West Clare. Thet’s where Johnny Doherty came from. Surely you’ve heard of him! Hehheh

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

hahahaahaa, come on. I may be ignorant and arrogant and not know anything at all about this music, but I’m pretty sure that Noel Hill is a musicians and not a place name. Am I right?

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Just tryin’ to join in the fun. Everybody knows johnny was a Donegal man!

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wow thanks

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You are most welcome. I am delighted to have been of some "small" assistance. hehheh
cheers, pipewatcher

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Concertinaplayer - I think your post was really good and I agree, I would love to see more up and coming featured.

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Well I did look at that other thread knocking two very good musicians. Rather pathetic if you ask me. I think skinninlilegs and Skip must have thought one of these signs has been put up over The Session.org website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7798194.stm
They think its ok to p*ss over everyone. Sad. Apart from that comment I can’t actually be bothered replying. When Dow and I used to have ding-dongs on here I always thought it was mostly good-natured and witty (from me anyway….) but these two are nasty creatures and best avoided.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

I dunno - I reckon there’s just a bit of a culture clash going on. If we all sniff the scented candles we might learn something to everyone’s benefit. Oh, ok, that wasn’t the most useful input I could have come out with, but I’ve decided not to enter the fray. Strange though, I can see both sides of the argument, and am familiar with both sides of the slagging style. I thing ‘nasty creatures’ is too harsh a mirror there :-) We’ve all been there.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Point taken Pomme :-) :-)

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Nice detective work divil. Now would you happen to know who any of this lot are: evolve as addict, skinnylillegs, skip canlon, tradmoosic or vocaldivasteeed? ;)

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Well, we can eliminate anyone who’s old enough to buy a drink.

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I dont think fiddle strings said anything bad at all - he is just reacting to skip canlon and rightly so. Just as I, and many many people on this board have. I also would love to know who those people that livid listed are…anyone have any ideas?

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And if it is Donal O’Connor -then even better, at least we know that he knows what he is talking about. He’s a brill player.

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ok so here’s some more detective work - fiddlestrings signed in under another username (livid) and used another (already existing) username (shoddy fiddle player) to back himself up.

I’m hiding behind a fake username I happily admit I’m a chicken, just thought the fraud and self publicist that is Donal O’Connor should be exposed.

Sesons greetings to all (except donal/livid/fiddlestrings/shoddyfiddleplayer).

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Sorry - I am shoddy fiddle player - formally bb….and I am not a fella - I am a female. Dont give up your day job hey? I’ll give you a tip….I dont even live in Ireland. Nice detecting Divil.

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Ps Divil. I’m going to help you be a better detective. All you have to do is look at my profile and you can see that I have been on this site since 2002 and have posted thousands of comments- Livid hasnt just logged in as shoddy to annoy you. Merry christmas.

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sorry shoddy I got my wires crossed, no slight intended.

Merry xmas.

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no way!

are you telling me fiddlestrings came on here and the first comment he made was to ‘big himself up’?

"Saw geantrai last night. Fantastic! Best yet. Loads of new tunes that I haven’t heard before and great playing. I really liked the last tune by McSherry and O’Connor. Is it a new composition?"

Unbelievable! Ok, as bad as it may be to hide behind a anonymous profile and give out about bad music, creating an anonymous account to come on here and praise yourself has to be the lowest of the low. How much do you crave attention Donal?

Hey, is this the same Donal that logged onto chiff and fipple and complained about a certain music organisation being biassed against northern pipers? By the way, this same organisation has a president from Belfast, who has also just released his latest solo recording on the organisation’s own label.

Dear oh dear Donal, you don’t paint a pretty picture of yourself as an individual, or as a musician. But to see the silver lining, it’s made my xmas!

:)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

actually, you know what, I better retract that, as we don’t know for def it is him. I find it hard to believe that anyone would be as sad as to log on here as a new user to try and praise their own playing.

However, if it IS him………. :)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Oh god - more pearls of wisdom for skippy the bush kangaroo. Hey - you still havent told me who this Noel Hill is. I am waiting. Also - you have no clue that fiddlestrings *is* Donal O’Connor….so really - that is slander.

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Oh dear. Santa can see all this and he won’t come down the chimney to any naughty boys. Just when you needed manners, as well. Shame.

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well its not REALLY slander, because we dont know who fiddlestrings real life identity is (if he isn’t donal of course). so that persons image cant be lowered in our view. im pretty sure it is really only slander or liable if you can actually identify the person.

and i am assuming you know who noel hill is, shoddy. lol.

Posted .

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quite right shoddy ( :) ), I don’t know for def the identity of fiddlestrings, which is why I retracted my comments. But if it IS donal o’connor, it’s, to quote fiddlestrings deliberately out of context:

" …kinda funny but sad too. ;-("

shoddy you seem to really have it in for me. It seems my criticism of your playing has deeply offended you. I do apologise - don’t wanna hurt anyone’s feelings too much. You have to remember, skip canlon, like santa, doesn’t actually exist. It’s just one person having a laugh by saying outrageous stuff and waiting for the reaction. The only reason I get away with it is because most of the people on this site are clueless, and couldn’t argue their way out of a paper bag. Look at my bio description, doesn’t that tell you everything? Don’t get wound up by me, I’m only pulling people’s chain to watch the reaction! The more you bite, the harder I laugh! :)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Your criticism of my playing has nothing to do with it. I wouldnt expect you to like it in all honestly. And I’m not looking for your approval. My friends are some of the best musicians around and they like playing tunes with me so I’m set.
To be honest I just know that you are and arrogant up yourself young one and you haven’t fully made the transition into the grownup world yet. The thing that really annoys me about you is that you hide behind your fake screen name and hurl insults at everybody. I hate the way you act like the powers that be in trad - like you know the *right* way and everyone else is *wrong*.

Yes thank you - amazingly I know who Noel Hill is…and I first met Tony Macmahon before you were probably born kiddo, but thats for the tips anyway.

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Ps - I’s sure I’d feel the same about your playing if I ever heard it.

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S.c.

Can I have more than one membership?

No. Absolutely not.

It’s strictly one membership per person here at The Session. Anyone caught faking a new membership will be expelled.

Remember, you can update your email address, username and other preferences from your member profile so you should have no reason to want more than one membership. ;)

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Skip

my last post was just the cut & paste.
I had some additional comments, which I accidentally deleted {select all} >> {paste} >> {oops!}
but the post by bb is much better than what I had.
So there you go.
Good one sfp!

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"The thing that really annoys me about you is….."

u see, the rest of the sentence is irrelevant. You reacted, that’s all I wanted! u really don’t have the intelligence to see the wood for the trees. And I LOVE the way you assume I’m really young, when there’s nothing to base that on at all!

Sorry, I didn’d detect the sarcasm in your post when you said who’s Tony MacMahon. The sentences either side of the question were rammed with ignorance, so thought you might not. Honestly, the links were there to help, not patronise. Patronise means to talk down to someone in a condescending manner…… :)

By the way, I don’t hurl insults at everybody, just the people I think are either bad musicians, or come on here spouting rubbish. Oh, and occasionally people who fall into both categories (not pointing at anybody in particular shoddy :) )

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

"The more you bite, the harder I laugh!" - Skip

Hahah - coming from the guy who honestly believed I’d never heard of Tony MacMahon !! priceless. :)

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Hmm - its just obvious you’re young, the way you act and the way you think its funny to upset others. Sociopath springs to mind. Also you said you were studying in another post. So I’m guessing. And I bet I’m right too.

Rammed with ignorance? Since when & like what? Give me an example. Let me assure you, I know more than you assume that I do. But the thing is I dont need your approval. Because do you know what? You sound like those boring little sods who sit in boring little sessions playing the same old boring tunes over and over again and bitching about Traz taking over. So lame.

My post wasn’t rammed with ignorance - i was taking the p*ss - but obviously you are a little young to get it.

"I don’t hurl insults at everybody, just the people I think are either bad musicians, or come on here spouting rubbish" - skip canlon

Sorry mate, but you sound like you are describing yourself. You’re far more ignorant than any of those that you accuse of being ignorant. Maybe you and skinny should get a room?

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Examples

if I read this correctly you are saying,
"once shoddy fiddle player, & every other member, stop reacting to your comments … your persona will have nothing to laugh at."
Or did I misread something?

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"Maybe you and skinny should get a room"

plagiarism from an earlier post by me. Don’t worry, you can have that one for free.

actually am not studying, private research would be more accurate. Have car, mortgage, pubic hair, the works! So your assumption of my age is a little off.

Lets bring it back to a civilised level. Ok, I don’t like your playing and I don’t hold any weight in your opinion. Fair play to you for pulling the wool over my eyes with your sarcasm, but I really didn’t believe you know who he was because, and this is just honest opinion, I didn’t think you knew what you were talking about.

Can you not appreciate that we all have different opinions? You said that you couldn’t understand how anybody could slag off O’Connor and McSherry. Do you honestly believe that everybody likes their music? Alot of people don’t, myself being obviously included in that.

Think you hold too much weight in this site. It’s just a bit of fun! Nobody in the real world takes it seriously, and quite rightly so. It’s just a load of sh*t, but it’s great craic! Especially when people like yourself take it so seriously! :)

Anyway, getting v late and still have to wrap the kids’ presents.

Have a great xmas shoody, keep practising, and look forward to hearing from you in the new year.

Regards,

Skip.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

"Let me assure you, I know more than you assume that I do. But the thing is I dont need your approval. Because do you know what? You sound like those boring little sods who sit in boring little sessions playing the same old boring tunes over and over again and bitching about Traz taking over."

Lovely stuff fiddlestrings/Donal O’Connor, keep it up, you’re showing your true colors now.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

"Can you not appreciate that we all have different opinions? You said that you couldn’t understand how anybody could slag off O’Connor and McSherry. Do you honestly believe that everybody likes their music? Alot of people don’t, myself being obviously included in that." - skip

Oh god -that is awesome. Now I know not to hold any weight in your opinions skip -thanks. That is a great christmas gift. I realise now that if you say someone is crap then I need to run straight out and buy their album because they are proabably awesome.

vocal - maybe youve missed the conversation - but I am not fidldestrings/o’connor. I am bb. I have changed my user name, just look in my history.

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well that seems to be it shoddy. We are a polar ends of the taste spectrum. What you think is great I think is s hit, and what I think is great you think is s hit. That’s fair enough.

Only one thing I’ll interject into this; the music I think is good has been listened to in recorded form for approx. 100 years and is still going strong. How many people do you think will be listening to your trazz music in 100 years time? It’s seasonal, easily consumed music. It’s of a time for a certain audience. Like MC Hammer. But when you look back on it in the future, like MC Hammer, it will just make you laugh.

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

What’s Christmas after all without friends & family?

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"What’s Christmas after all without friends & family?"

ROFL :)

Good one!

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Skip - see you know nothing about me. because in fact I like a lot of stuff that isn’t trazzy as well. In fact I love in Noel Hill and tony Macmahon’s album in Knocknagree, its one of my all time favorites. I’m not narrow minded like some, I like most stuff - old and new, pure drop and trazzy.

So no - I don’t think what you like is s hit - and even if I didnt particularly like the style - I wouldn’t call it s hit - I’d just say I don’t like the style.

But I’m glad you have it all worked out. :)

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Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Hey, leave MC Hammer out of this, he has more talent in his fingernail, etc, etc.

And Divil, I’m not any of the people you think I am, ya eejit ;) Merry Christmas.

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Re: Examples of “geantraí”

And VD, interesting you spell "colors" that way. Which part of the States are you from? Or are you just trying to throw us off the scent? ;)

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Ha! I’ve heard it all now.
Going by some peoples methods of deduction, because I’ve expressed an admiration for Donal O’Connors talents then that makes me him - Skip canlon , skinnylillegs,vocaldivasteeed, concertinaplayer etc must therefore be Tony McMahon, Noel Hill and co.
If that were correct, then these people (Tony McMahon, Noel Hill and co) should feel ashamed of themselves for their downright nastyness and arrogance toward fellow musicians.

But, the bottom line is - I’m NOT Donal. Though I wish I could play like him.
Anyway, I’ve had enough of all this. I’ve better things to be doing than talking with the likes of them mentioned above. I’m not into deriding other musicians for the fun of it. Happy Christmas to all. :-)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

fiddlestrings wrote -
"I’m not into deriding other musicians for the fun of it"

Dictionary definition of ‘Deride’ - "…to laugh at in scorn or contempt; scoff or jeer at; mock."

So whats this then?

"Concertinaplayer, you definitely need cheering up. You don’t seem like a happy camper. "

"Well VocalDivaSteed, I’m a doctor and I think you have a severe case of ‘pureits’"

"SkipCanlon is one of those Tony McMahon freaks"

"Skipcanlon, Your arrogance speaks volumes!"

"Well, fiddleruairi,
You’re playing Geantrai. Ha! I’ill be watching and see how you compare to eveybody else who people have ripped into."

"Well Skip canlon, you’ve revealed your total arrogance yet again. Please shove your opinions down somebody elses throat"

"Oh and by the way Skip canlon, you sound very much like one of those raving loones that wave the "Tony McMahon Irish traditional music bible" at everybody and then try and stuff it down their throats. "

"You come across as arrogant, obnoxious, all knowing, self important, and downright nasty."

"You can be arrogant in your own opinion which you truely are and maybe the reason you don’t pass comment on your own playing is because you’re not that hot yourself."

If that aint derision I dunno what is.

I’m off to pull some crackers, enjoy the day everyone!

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Maybe the underlying assumption, and ultimate derision, is that he doesn’t consider posters here as musicians worth considering as such

Posted .

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Bottom line is, I don’t deride other peoples musical endeavors! I only criticize those who blatantly do and who are nasty and arrogant with it. I am all for people voicing their various opinions but there is a civilised way of doing this without the derision .

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

"Only one thing I’ll interject into this; the music I think is good has been listened to in recorded form for approx. 100 years and is still going strong. How many people do you think will be listening to your trazz music in 100 years time? It’s seasonal, easily consumed music. It’s of a time for a certain audience. Like MC Hammer. But when you look back on it in the future, like MC Hammer, it will just make you laugh"

Ha ha! Well skip canlon or should I say Noel Hill. That’s what your likes said about Planxty, The Bothy Band and many more when they first came on the scene nearly forty years ago. Need I say more. ;-)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

Popcorn, anybody? (Offers bag to all the other lurkers enjoying the show.)

Re: Examples of “geantraí”

to be honest, the whole band thing doesn’t do it for me. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for bothy band and planxty. but it just isn’t my thing. The band thing has been around since recorded trad; Dan Sullivan Shamrock Band, O’Leary’s Irish Minstrels, etc.. But the elements of the tradition I love are things like melodic variation and the use of timbre and tonality for musical expression, which usually fall by the wayside in band arrangements. I’d rather listen to Paddy Canny or Eddie Moloney, but that’s just personal taste.

Shoddy fiddle player made a point:

"even if I didnt particularly like the style - I wouldn’t call it s hit - I’d just say I don’t like the style."

Fair enough, we all have preferences. I prefer the Clare style of fiddle playing to the Donegal style. I prefer the Connamara style of box playing to the sliabh luachra style. That’s not to say I don’t admire and respect the music of Danny Meehan and Johnny O’Leary. It’s just taste. But I don’t think all this tazzy garbage is part of the same music. It may have elements in common, most notably instrumentation, but melodic variation, technical ornamentation, use of tonality and timbre for expression etc, are ALL MISSING. Coleman and, say the first track on the Belfast show of Geantrai, are not the same genre, never mind style.

fiddlestrings, you said about me:

"You come across as arrogant, obnoxious, all knowing, self important, and downright nasty."

First of all, let me return the favour and give you a little language lesson. All knowing is actually a compliment. But it’s misdirected; only a fool thinks they know everything. On many occasions I’ve been shown a new perspective on an argument, even have been corrected on occasion. Kilfarboy has put me in my place on a number of subjects, and fair play to him, I’m very grateful for it.

But as VDS quite clearly points out, you abuse people for giving out abuse! You’ve become what you hate! If your problem is with my language and the way I put across my point, I make no apology for it. If you know your stuff, you should be able to argue through it, like others have. But I suspect you have neither the knowledge of the music and/or the intelligence to do so, which is what leads us to this point. If you want to debate the whole ‘purist’ vs. ‘evo’ argument, I’d be delighted to do so. But I don’t think you want to, for fear of being shown up for all your intellectual and musical shortcomings. So carry on slagging me off, trust me, I can take it.

Mickray, I’m glad you’re enjoying the show!

I wanna take this opportunity to say thank you to Jeremy for letting this discussion last. So often these arguments get cut off before we really get to tear into each other. I don’t know if it’s because he’s away for xmas or just enjoying the banter, but thank you, you’re not as big a twit as I thought you were. :)

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so fiddlestrings got 4 out of 5?

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lol, depends who’s scoring!

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This us vs them rhetoric ‘Pure drop vs Trazz’ its getting a little boring to be honest. I like it all as Ive said before, unlike those closed minded narrow pure drop bible bashers.

Fiddlestrings - I agree with everything you’ve said - particularly the part about not bothering to argue anymore. Some people will just never get it.

Skip - I’m all for people having different tastes in music, I just don’t particularly like the way that you express it.

Vocal - fiddlestrings has reacted and said some things - but none of it is anywhere near as mean and cruel as the people he is reacting against.

Also - all this nonsense that Skip keeps going on about - that so and so is unintelligent and that most on here don’t know anything about trad……guffaw. Hilarious. I believe you know alot about trad. But you make it sound like you are the last word in it and that nobody knows as much as you. If being not being as mean, nasty and bitchy as you means I know nothing and trad and I’m unintelligent - then GOOD!. I wouldn’t be as mean as you for a million dollars.

Would I t know what I’m talking about if I run about slagging off others playing? Its not being precious either, just being human. I was raised to not be cruel to others, unlike - it seems many on this board. But oh well - you cant change the way people are :)

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"I like it all as I’ve said before, unlike those closed minded narrow pure drop bible bashers."

Fair play for liking every single example of Irish music shoddy fiddle player, I guess I’m just a bit more discerning than you.

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Did I say I like every single example of irish music VD - or are you trying to pick? Obviously I dont like every single example - I just like lots of different styles. But fair play to you for being right and only liking *good* trad. Good one.

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BB -"all this nonsense that Skip keeps going on about - that so and so is unintelligent and that most on here don’t know anything about trad……guffaw. Hilarious. I believe you know alot about trad. But you make it sound like you are the last word in it and that nobody knows as much as you. If being not being as mean, nasty and bitchy as you means I know nothing and trad and I’m unintelligent - then GOOD!. I wouldn’t be as mean as you for a million dollars."

Skip, here’s a wee one for you - go and start another discussion about something that you have well-formed opinions about. Try and keep it civil, if you are able. In answering any points, please provide examples, and be as technical as you feel you need to be.

Your comments where you expressed opinions about bands vis a vis solo recordings are probably shared by many members here anyway, since many people are players who wish to continuously improve and develop their playing (even if they are not "improvers" per se [a new term for "apprentices"], and so will be listening to solo players anyway.

My hunch is similar to that of bb’s in that you probably have *some* knowledge, yet think you know it all, but to fill in the gaps, your insecurity impells you to try to slag off other people on this site.

Oh, and please provide details of who you really are otherwise no-one will ever take anything you say at all seriously no matter how much you try to impress them with your false pearls of wisdom. I have got a few ideas whom you may be, as another member using fake id, and if true I don’t relish ever meeting this person in the flesh.

However, if all you’re worried about is making a See You Enn Tea of yourself online, don’t worry mate, I’ve done it so many times yet I know for a fact that there are 10 times as many people on here who (to varying degrees) respect and know I’m ok, as those who don’t.

I recall your discussion about Piano accs. Are you sure you’ve never heard a decent PA player? I personally know 4 very classy players of the music, 3 of whom are members here. Also I know of the species to whom your comments were intended - some also members here. And then your one about banjos….jeez.

Only trouble is, as far as I’m concerned, that I’ll be away for a few days, so I won’t be able to contribute. So start it towards the new year then.

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bb - remember this one - Skipeeee Skipeee, Skipy the bush Kangaro-oo…..

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"Skip, here’s a wee one for you - go and start another discussion about something that you have well-formed opinions about. Try and keep it civil, if you are able. In answering any points, please provide examples, and be as technical as you feel you need to be."

ok, will do. I’ll save it for after new year’s. And I’ll try and be as nice as possible. But no promises…. :)

*

Why no promises?
Is it for the sake of antagonism or anonymity or just for laughs? Certainly it has nothing to do with integrity.

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Integrity: firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values.

So actually it has everything to do with integrity. Won’t compromise my opinion just because some people get upset that I can be a bit rough with my appraisals.

But I’ll do my best. :)

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& your value system is based on antagonism?

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YUP ;-)

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I dont think you should change your opinions skip- just your way of expressing them. PS - I like your new thread on geantri - not a cruel word about a musician in sight - good on ya:)

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Going by some peoples methods of deduction, because I’ve expressed an admiration for Donal O’Connors talents then that makes me him - Skip canlon , skinnylillegs,vocaldivasteeed, concertinaplayer etc must therefore be Tony McMahon, Noel Hill and co.
If that were correct, then these people (Tony McMahon, Noel Hill and co) should feel ashamed of themselves for their downright nastyness and arrogance toward fellow musicians.

Ha ha! Well skip canlon or should I say Noel Hill. That’s what your likes said about Planxty, The Bothy Band and many more when they first came on the scene nearly forty years ago. Need I say more. " fiddlestrings


Donal ur a joke. Do You honestly believe Noel Hill would be bothered to write on this board on Christmas Eve when he’d be up to his eyes. You may have plenty of time on your hands and can afford to spend time promoting your name on this board. Fishing for compliments again. Great read this thread all the same. Enjoyed it.

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Loved this one by fiddlestrings:

"Your criticism of my playing has nothing to do with it. I wouldnt expect you to like it in all honestly. And I’m not looking for your approval. My friends are some of the best musicians around and they like playing tunes with me so I’m set. "

Let me guess who some of these best musicians are? McSherry? Mike McGoldrick?

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Lord Gordon. Get a life!

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Can you name these musicians you claim like playing with you? Just interested.

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Lord gordon you complete f*cktard, I know this is hard for some people to understand but I am not Donal O’Connor for feck sakes - look in my history you loser and you will see that I live in Australia. God get a f*cking clue - this is really starting to get annoying. My previous screen name is bb - I just changed it. IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

Ps - Bet Mcsherry and McGoldrick are a million times better than you

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f uck f uck f uck. I wouldn’t dream on using feck on a loser like you.

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i was talking to fiddlestrings.

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Lord gordon - that was *my* quote.

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Oh my mistake. i thought fiddlestrings said it. i am aware of you being in Australia before.

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I just dont get you guys - skip, yourself, skinny etc, Your like a pack of bullies at school just going after the one kid. Its really sick.

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Don’t rate either of them. Although i do think McGoldrick had some natural ability so yes i would accept your bet

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‘Thats what I mean though - whether or not you like what they are doing, you have to admit - they are very good musicians - they are just playing a style you don’t like - and I get that. I don’t like some styles either. But I wouldn’t get on her and tear those musicians to shreds. I get they are good - its just not the style I like. Thats the only thing I’ve really had a problem with on this site.

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I see what you mean - il stop after this so. He has been known to this type of thing before and was caught red handed on many occasions.A taste of his own medicine.

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Hey - I don’t think you are the worst offender at all. Skip & skinny are far meaner than you.

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I didn’t see your post until late. I agree that it is a matter of style and i wish to voice that.

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funny that because the offence you threw at me happens to be the worst i remember directed at me. i dont mind at all actually.

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f uck f uck f uck. I wouldn’t dream on using feck on a loser like you.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by shoddy fiddle player

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And i think its good to voice that. I just hate the way people like skip and skinny go on about how sh*t musicians are, how cr*p they are etc. I mean really - Damien Mullane crap? I can see how some people wouldn’t like the style, but he is very very good.

I don’t like bluegrass doesn’t mean I’m going to start saying every bluegrass musician is sh*t - cause I know its not true.

There is a huge difference between saying ‘McSherry is total sh*t ‘or saying ‘I don’t like McSherry’s playing’. Each gets your point across - one makes you seem like an individual who is a sociopath - the other like a normal person with an opinion.

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In fairness lord gordon - you were like the 3rd or 4th person in your pack to accuse me of being donal O’Connor. I was just getting sick of it to be honest cause its not that hard to look at someone’s history and see that they aren’t actually Dona O’Connor….see?

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You know Lord Gordon - you’re right - I am sorry for reacting like that and being mean to you. I did what I have been getting upset at people on this site are doing. I stooped to their level. I apologise.

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Yeah i see what you mean. It just happens that the style of music i ‘m most interested is traditional irish music. Sometimes it really annoys me when i hear people playing it in a way which, well, really annoys me. I know it sounds strange but it is an emotional reaction and sometimes it manifests itself into emotional outbursts. But i believe thats part of most artistic endevours. When its a huge part of your life and heritage, i find i can become very annoyed. Even more so when as you’ve said these musicians are talented. This can be even more annoying as it seems they don’t see the value in what’s waiting in our heritage as a nation. I agree these people have talent.

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Once more didn’t see your post until i finished typing. No worries about the abuse - i deserve much more of that at times.

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I used to be exactly like you believe it or not. Pure drop - I thought the bothy band were way out of line. But I moved to Ireland and fell in with the wrong crowd:) Nah - they were great fun, but they played modern stuff as well - and after awhile I started to like it as well. The thing is - that I do love the modern stuff - but it would really depend on the situation. If I walk in to a session and it was pure drop type stuff - i wouldn’t dream of starting modern funky tunes you know? But I expect that same respect - If I’m running a session and thats what I want to play then I don’t want people coming in and moaning about it.

I was talking to a friend of my the other night - lovely fiddle player, very pure drop. Absolutely hates my tunes, hates them with a passion.We were talking of the session.org and how mean it has become regarding musicians who like modern stuff. And we both thought it really bizarre because while we are the polar opposite in taste we can still manage to be friends. And why not?

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I’m off to read a few chapters of a book - Two Flamboyant Fathers by Nicollette Devas. Good. Seems Augustas John liked lashing out strong criticism when angered by pretentious art. Maybe music is no different. People react to it. So perhaps it is fair to say something is sh’t or anything. The lowest form is self praise. Why praise yourself when you could be focusing on improving?
Over and out,

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Sorry Shoddy, this keeps happening! didn’t see your post. yeah i have many friends who play stuff i hate and i know they’d hate my ideal afternoon visiting one of my favourite elder musicians, listening to recordings and chatting about tunes. It doesn’t get in the way of friendship - your right.

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See - we are both polar opposites, but I get where your coming from and you get where I’m coming from. Thanks Lord gordon - its been great having a conversation where we both get to air our concerns and the other takes it on board. Cheers.

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Scratch’s thread

more … random_notes. This is from an early discussion on the ruckus of the day in mustardland.
I keep finding different things in the thread.
Today I enjoyed this bit …
"Sos, it’s a bit of a catch-22, isn’t it? No one expects people to be born knowing all these weird rules, though (although I’ve noted in Ireland, many of the session "rules" are part and parcel with the culture, so they can’t figure out why anyone has trouble with something they think is a non-issue). It’s when people don’t *try* that it gets most players’ goats. However, with all due respect, I somehow have a hard time seeing you as one of the types to wander into a session and do something either in spite of knowing it’s not on or not finding out before you do something. I repeat — it’s the attitude of someone, not so much what it is they do."

Zina

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You know, I was thinking. Its not like any of these musicians came over from say another type of music and then started faffing around playing modern stuff. They all grew up steeped in the tradition and then chose this stuff because they like it. All those people that insinuate that these modern players don’t know what they are talking about are fooling themselves. The high and mighty holier than thou attitude only works if those people don’t have a clue….and its obvious they do.

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bb I enjoy reading your comments.
I was thinking, alot of the holier than though attitude is just baiting & casting a line out. I could be wrong. Just thinking.

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Yeah - probably, but I still think they think that they are right. I do take the bait alright. I have to stop getting wound up - it just makes them act worse!

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That happens. Except for coming here one day I would not have known what a windup was. You can count on them though. There can be lively sport in them. So keep the comments coming.
You may have recognized the bit from Zina Lee. ^ She’s talking to llig leahcim on a thread about ‘tunes you hate’.
that was a good one bb.
Cheers.

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Oh yeah - I didnt realise it was from that thread. I got in big trouble for that one:)

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Well I finally found out what ‘Geantrai’ means. Its the old Irish word for an argument containing lots of insults between two or more people discussing the playing abilities of Irish Traditional Musicians and the style of music they play.

*

I wonder why skip never started that thread

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