Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Every time I listen to "In Full Spate" by Paddy Glackin there is this one ornamentation that strikes me as unusual, and I am unable to hear what he ‘s doing. It is in Jenny Picking Cockles, 2nd part, on the F sharp. Doesn’t sound like a roll to me, kind of cran but that would normally be on an open note, isn’t ?

Who knows how he’s doing this and does it have a name.

BTW I have the album on a cassette tape, so for me it’s not possible to use slow down software…….

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Henk - I don’t have the recording at hand, but I’ve listened to it many times and I think I know what you’re talking about. If it is what I think it is…

It’s a bowed triplet (fsharp g fsharp) followed immediately by a cut (with the third finger) on the same f sharp. You can probably figure out the timing better by listening to the recording - here’s my best attempt at the timing in case you can’t.

First of all, triplets aren’t really triplets, as you probably know. In Irish trad three notes in the place of two is achieved by getting two notes in the place of one. So what we call a triplet is really more like one of two "equal" notes (usually the first) divided in half and the second left as is. If you play with any swing, the second of these two "equal" notes is a tad shorter to begin with.

Anyway, if you accept the convention that reels are usually written down with eighth notes or semi-quavers, then this is what’s happening: two sixteenth notes (semi-demi quavers) f# then g, then eighth note f#, all bowed seperately. then without changing bow direction, the beginning of what would be the next eighth note (another f#) is marked by a cut with the third finger. And the cut is really a cut — you shouldn’t hear the third finger a as a note, just an interuption of the f#. I do all this starting on an up-bow, I think Glackin does too.

I hope that makes sense!

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Thanks Chrishty, that was clear. Just tried it, but it still doesn’t come close to what Paddy is doing. But then again, I’m no Paddy Glackin ๐Ÿ˜‰

I’ll try to make my timing of it better and see what happens, in the meantime perhaps any other comments?

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

if it’s like this one…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7XRBU6sn0


it’s a E preceeding a very quick roll on f sharp, and it sounds unusual because the first f sharp is noticably flatter than the second. My ear thinks this is what he did on the recording too, but I’m at work and the recordings’ at home…

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Just listened to the track. Every time on that final f# he plays an ordinary old long roll, very crisp, a little delayed, and with a bit of extra welly with the bow.

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

X-posted with reenactor. I thought what you allude to must be what he’s doing on JPC, because he does it so often, but it’s not.

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

a Donegal roll - he does it all the time

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

That’s a whole lot of possibilities……. still only one can be right.

Reenactor, I don’t think so. But then there’s a piper that distracts me ๐Ÿ˜‰.

Jeeves Tones, what is it then?

What’s special about the * Donegal * roll, Hup? All the time, I don’t think so, why would I otherwise be puzzled with this tiny phrase out of a whole album?

Thanks anyway, all of you.

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

I mean it’s not what reenactor was describing and what I thought you must be puzzling over when I first read your post.

(Those are what I used to think of as "Glackins", because he was the first fiddler I noticed doing them, although just about everybody from Bobby Casey through Tommy Peoples and Oisin Mac do them too. Aka a "rising roll".)

But what PG is playing on that high f# in JPC on IFS is… just a roll. I even slowed it down to make sure I was right about that and I was.

Cheers!

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Thanks. It must be the Donegal flavour of a roll (see Hup’s post), it sounds so different from what rolls usually sound for me…..

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

I wouldn’t get sidetracked by the idea of its being a Donegal roll or any other description. It’s crisp, and a little delayed (or "swung"), meaning he holds the first note somewhat before executing the rest of it. But nothing unusual in that, or anything else in it, to my ears.

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Jeeves, how is what I wrote different than what you described? There’s a roll, and there’s an E before it.

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

What you described is spot-on for what he was playing on the YouTube clip.

But - contrary to my expectations - what you describe is not what he is playing in the same place in the same tune on his record, In Full Spate.

To save me from having to write any more about this topic:

what you described ("rising roll"): e{a}f{e}f

what he is playing on in Full Spate: f{a}f{e}f with the first f elongated a little.

That is my last word on the subject. Thank you and goodnight.

Re: Paddy Glackin ornamentation

Oh! Well why didn’t you say so then? ๐Ÿ˜‰

And noone even mentioned he tuned down to play with a flat set of pipes in the youtube clip…