Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

For your utter delectation here are some albums which were originally released by Peter Kennedy’s Folktrax label. All the recordings are now out of copyright and all have been cleaned up a little.

These recordings have been copied directly from cassettes (with some tweaking of sound quality) and there’s no separation within the various files between tracks.

Néillidh Boyle - http://www.sendspace.com/file/fb6ci5

Bobby Casey and Willie Clancy - http://www.sendspace.com/file/qjha4z

John Doherty - http://www.sendspace.com/file/uoc139

Some track listings are available for these recordings at http://www.folktrax-archive.org.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I should have added that anyone downloading the Néillidh Boyle file will have to put up with his notorious ‘jungle music’ rant.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

These are great Floss thanks for posting them up

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

The download link doesn’t appear — I’m have a mac.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Now it shows up…

thanks

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

i’m on a mac too, but i can see the link. u using Firefox?

(thanks for the links FTT) ;-)

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

DROOL………..

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

out-of-print / out-of-copyright = not the same thing. Thanks for these Floss!

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I’m certainly confused then because it is my understanding that none of the above recordings are out of copyright. Correct me if I am wrong, please, but if the artist holds the copyright then in the UK and Ireland it extends beyond 70 years of his death? I was also under the impression that Topic acquired the Folktrax catalog and would be rereleasing them soon or has this also changed?

http://www.irishmusicreview.com/discfolktrax.htm

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Clarification: "extends 70 years beyond his death."

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

alive / dead = not the same thing?

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Néillidh Boyle, 1961; John Doherty, 1980; Willie Clancy, 1973; Bobby Casey, 2000? Peter Kennedy/Folktrax 2006?

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

not really intending to continue stirring here (it’s fun though) - all I know is I read some exchange between FTT and PK and it seemed PK knew the recordings would be out of copyright, and also I don’t know much about FTT other than he seems to know something about the recording industry, and if he says a recording is out of copyright, I believe him. I’m curious though if anyone wants to jump in and explain how it all works…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I wouldn’t mind some clarification, either. I don’t disbelieve him, but as I said, I am confused. Especially after receiving a callous response to (what I thought) was a similar favor in making "lost" music available to a wider interest group in the forum.

For UK copyright law (cited):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

Copyright Association of Ireland
http://www.cai.ie/faq/index.htm

The link I posted above explains that Topic owns the Folktrax archive and 2009 should see the release of select Folktrax recordings. Topic makes the same claim on the "revived" Folktrax site http://www.folktrax-archive.org/ — although indicating that the reissued recordings would be arranged somewhat differently than the originals, perhaps indicating a fresh copyright.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

the 70 years rule doesn’t apply since all of the artists were forced to sign over the copyright. How can a record company sell expired rights? It’s interesting.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I’m interested too. I have a number of old rare recordings I would be interested in Archiving, Legally. Even recording them for myself is still technically Illegal is it not? We link youtube here on the session all the time but when do we concern ourselves with the legal owner of copywrite in these cases?
I have Old vinyl and cassettes, Almost Impossible to get hold of, yet Topic, for example hold the rights to some of them . I hunt down and collect old interesting material and things that pertain to my chosen fields of activity. Id love to be able to share some of these recordings .
Will topic, for example re release this material? What out takes were there as well? a few tracks more? …. Hidden away in a record company’s storeroom, mouldering away….

Thanks a million Floss for sharing these with us.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Thanks for the dub, FTT. Never came across the Boyle or Doherty; I do have the West Wind CD complete with Peter’s illegible Sharpie labeling.

Have any more?

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I also sent PK correct titles for most of the WW tracks, but that was towards the end of his life. Seemed to appreciate the effort.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Finished cracking the JD into separate tracks, here is my listing - chucked out most of the "talk"s and also broke up the long medleys. These can be used to make MP3s and apply ID3 tags if you’re a fan of such arcana.

01 - Johnny Doherty - The Star
02 - Johnny Doherty - The Japanese
03 - Johnny Doherty - The Low Level
04 - Johnny Doherty - The Stepping Stones (Good for the Tongue)
05 - Johnny Doherty - New Lough Isle Castle
06 - Johnny Doherty - Talk
07 - Johnny Doherty - Marry When You’re Young
08 - Johnny Doherty - Lord Gordon’s
09 - Johnny Doherty - O’Halloran’s (Bank of Ireland)
10 - Johnny Doherty - The Yellow Heifer (Paddy on the Turnpike)
11 - Johnny Doherty - Miss Cunningham’s (Donegal Reel)
12 - Johnny Doherty - The Heart Of My Kitty (Rambles of Kitty)
13 - Johnny Doherty - The King Of The Pipers
14 - Johnny Doherty - The Woods Of Fanad (Silver Slipper)
15 - Johnny Doherty - The Knackers Of Navan
16 - Johnny Doherty - The Dear Irish Boy
17 - Johnny Doherty - The Harvest Morning
18 - Johnny Doherty - Napoleon Bonaparte’s Grand March
19 - Johnny Doherty - Napoleon Crossing The Alps
20 - Johnny Doherty - I Won’t Be a Nun
21 - Johnny Doherty - Talk
22 - Johnny Doherty - Haste To The Wedding
23 - Johnny Doherty - Talk
24 - Johnny Doherty - The Bargain Is Made (Behind the Bush in the Garden)
25 - Johnny Doherty - Bonnie Kate
26 - Johnny Doherty - Talk About His Father, First Tune & Family
27 - Johnny Doherty - The Salamanca
28 - Johnny Doherty - Further Talk About His Family And Their Music, and Meeting With John McGinley
29 - Johnny Doherty - The First Of May
30 - Johnny Doherty - Talk About Being A Pedlar
31 - Johnny Doherty - The Boys Of The Lough
32 - Johnny Doherty - Talk about bowing
32 - Johnny Doherty - The Cat That Kittled On Jamie’s Wig
33 - Johnny Doherty - Talk About The Bagpipe Technique On The Bow
34 - Johnny Doherty - Piobaire An Cheideadh
35 - Johnny Doherty - Whistle O’er The Lave O’t, Unknown
36 - Johnny Doherty - Talk
37 - Johnny Doherty - Dulaman Ne Beinne Buidhe
38 - Johnny Doherty - Talk
39 - Johnny Doherty - An Tseanbhean Bhocht (air and reel (The Primrose Lass)
40 - Johnny Doherty - The Braes Of Maas
41 - Johnny Doherty - Kitty’s Fancy Mazurka
42 - Johnny Doherty - McSweeney’s Lament

The gain was a bit high on the 2nd half - distorted as a result. Makes Johnny sound like Eddie Van Halen.

Will work on the Néillidh tape later.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Interesting to hear him play the Star (of the East) and Good for the Tongue. In James Morrison’s book he wrote out the Star in A and called it the Ploughboy; Joe Derrane recorded that on a 78 too, in the Showman’s Fancy medley; I commented a bit on it recently: https://thesession.org/tunes/2222/comments

Good for the Tongue was recorded by Wisconsin fiddler in the 1940s, two recordings of him may playing it may be heard at the Wisconsin Folksong Collection: http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WiscFolkSong/

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I don’t think it resolves any existing copyright problems, but I’ve heard various people express serious reservations about Mr. Kennedy’s treatment of different artists in his "stable".

A trawl through the archives of IRTRAD-L should turn up some relevant detail, or at least some salacious aspersions.

https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?S1=IRTRAD-L

Or,

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=site:www.https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa%3FS1%3DIRTRAD-L+kennedy+folktrax&btnG=Search&meta=

Shorter version: http://tinyurl.com/nydcg9

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Almost forgot: Thanks FtT!!

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Floss the Tethers wrote:
“…Anyone downloading the Néillidh Boyle file will have to put up with his notorious ‘jungle music’ rant.”

Why apologise? Néillidh was 100% correct about the threat to Irish music. He would be horrified, as many of us now are, by the state of much popular Irish ‘traditional’ music. I’m sure he would not be happy with the standardization and lack of subtlety in the playing generally found in pub sessions, and among many of the more famous figureheads of Irish music. And I am also sure that he would be quite pleased by some contemporary fiddlers (and others) who have returned to the old music, studied it in depth, and play it in the old, traditional style. How could you object to anything Néillidh Boyle says here?:

“At the present time, unless there’s something done about it, it’s [i.e., Irish Traditional Music] finished; by the way that I have been listening to it. And I don’t know who’s to blame for it. They seem not to have the real ‘Blas’ [i.e., flavour / accent (as in spoken language)] of Irish music, the real old art of fiddle playing which is almost lost now in Ireland at the present time.[…] It’s a gift that was given to the old people…, a gift! And at the present time, this thing is dying away owing to this, what I call, ‘jungle music’, which is the rage at the present time in this country, called ‘modern music’. By listening to so much of it, they can’t get away from it.”

Spot on!

On the much more boring issue of copyright:
In this case the legal issue of copyright is by far outweighed by the moral imperative. The moneygrabbing fiend who made these recordings paid these artists nothing for their time or their knowledge, threatened them not to record for anyone else on pain of being sued (old people said they were frightened to let people record them because Peter Kennedy made them sign something), and aggressively claimed copyright over all the actual tunes and songs that he recorded (despite the fact that some of these were traditional works several hundred years old, and despite the fact that the BBC paid him for doing the recordings). As far as I’m concerned, these recordings should be in the public domain. They are the property of the Irish people if they belong to anyone. The fact that Topic bought a corrupt and immoral copyright is of no importance whatever. As is frequently the case, the law just enforces moral corruption, giving it a certificate and thereby making it respectable to the Borgeousie. Congratulations Floss the Tethers for putting these treasures of the Gaelic people before the musical public. Néillidh Boyle played frequently along with my great uncles, and I’m sure he would prefer the music held in trust by real traditional musicians that by an arrogant, ignorant Sasanach with little or no respect for this art.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Once more: Why Peter Kennedy was somewhat evil, and why neither he, nor his descendents, nor anyone who recognized his copyright of this material (or deigned to purchase it) ought to retain any rights over it:
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/peter_k.htm

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Thanks for mentioning the article, whistleblower. The note I sent to Rod Stradling is the first one printed. I was PK’s assistant very many years ago, and can confirm that he could be very devious, if not worse.

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Thanks again Floss. Great to hear these recordings. Whilst there may be a bit of kerfuffle from some, I think for the genuine student of the music it is a great thing.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Buried in the Foltrax archive, there is even a picture of Johnny Doherty’s brother, Simie, signing a ‘clearance’ form. Now that’s what I call thorough :-(
P-K (no relation)

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Go raibh mile ma’agat / Diolch yn fawr iawn FTT…

I too appreciate the character and the rant ~ Neillidh Boyle…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Thanks, Kevin, for the Doherty tracklisting.
Fascinating hearing him introducing the tracks, telling stories- fiddlers in old times walking in front of the wedding party, playing ‘Haste to the Wedding’ , and ‘The Bargain is Made’ afterwards- about his father’s meeting with John McGinley, his own life as a peddler,all kinds of stuff.
Folktracks has a (lesser-known) picture of John (without cap), at the time of the recordings (1953).
The recording is in the DB-
https://thesession.org/recordings/display/1474

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

The Willie Clancy set seems to be only half of the original release. This is what I’ve put together from the recent upload:

01 Reels-The Bush/Chicago
02 Hornpipe-Poll Halfpenny
03 Reel-Reavy’s
04 Rowsome’s Slip Jig
05 Jig-Ask My Father
06 Hornpipe-Harvest Home
07 Hornpipe-The Sweep’s
08 Reels-The West Wind:Sean Reid’s Fancy
09 Jig-Munster Buttermilk
10 The Dear Irish Boy
11 The Dear Irish Boy
12 Reel-John In the Mist
13 Reel-The Beauty Spot
14 Reel-Rakish Paddy
15 Talk by Willie
15a Reel-The Flogging
16 Slip Jig-Let Us Be Drinking

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Thanks also to the links provided by others, chased up and read with interest, and sadness, with a few listens caught in the process too…

Uploads - Donegal singers

All of the three postings I made are out of copyright. A few years back I contacted the Performing Rights Society’s folk/trad expert to ask what the position was regarding the copyright of Peter Kennedy’s recordings. He was unequivocal in stating that their copyright would expire 50 years after the date of their recording (the 70 year rule does not apply to sound recordings in the UK though Saint Cliff of Richard has been leading a campaign to get copyright on sound recordings extended to 95 years, presumably because he believes he’ll live that long).

I had made this contact because, at the time, I had been working on a project to compile an album of Néillidh Boyle’s recordings using all his 78s, the Irish Folklore Commission’s 1945 recordings, and Peter Kennedy’s from 1953. The aim was to raise funds for Cairdeas na bhFidiléirí.

Subsequently, I contacted Peter Kennedy to ask permission to use his recordings. He agreed, but only if he received 75% of the retail (note not wholesale) price! Agreeing to such terms for a limited run of a mere 1,000 albums would have made the project unviable and brought little income to Cairdeas.

However, I pointed out to Peter that I needed only to wait a few months and his copyright claims would bite the dust and I could acquire the masters from the British Library at a far cheaper price than he would probably offer, and received a reply that would be best regarded as grovelling. Subsequently, I had to put the project on the back burner, but Cairdeas is currently working on a Néillidh Boyle CD.

Whether Kennedy had any rights to ownership of the copyright in the first place is a very moot point since he was employed by the BBC at the time. A useful summary of the pros and cons of Kennedy’s work can be found at http://www.mustrad.org.uk/enth53.htm.

Topic has indeed acquired the rights to the Kennedy recordings which are now all housed by the British Library Sound Archive and I don’t think that any money has changed hands. The label’s intention, as I understand it, is to issue a series of compilations comparable to its ‘Voice of the People’ albums. Like ‘VotP’, Reg Hall is at the controls.

Re. the Casey/Clancy tape. I think it’s rather more than half the Folktrax release, but it’s all I have, I’m afraid (and it was actually copied from the cassette, so maybe the copyist purchased a stumer). This often happened with Kennedy.

As for my ‘jungle music’ comment, apart from Boyle’s implicit racism in using the term, it’s odd that he had actually dabbled in jazz, being a leading member of the 1930s Dungloe Quartet, though clearly, by 1953, he’d washed said experience out of his veins.

Anyway, here’s another one for you - ‘An Cailin Gaelach -Folksongs in Irish Gaelic’, recorded back in 1947 and featuring Hughie Devaney (I once spent an afternoon in Tessie’s Bar with two men of that name), Conal O’Donnell, William Rogers, Kitty Gallagher and Sheila Gallagher - all from the area spanning Ranafast to Doire (that’s the northern tip of The Rosses to the southern edge of Gweedore), except William from Tory Island.

The file is here http://www.sendspace.com/file/iwhf3g, a track listing is here - http://www.sendspace.com/file/7gt6ac, or visit http://www.folktrax-archive.org/menus/cassprogs/003irishgaelic.htm for the full album notes.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Ah, I’m corresponding a bit with a sean-nós buff and those tracks will be a great surprise for him, I think.

Do tell us when that Néillidh CD is available - the Frank Cassidy was great stuff, I’d had the dub for a long while but the production was excellent anyway. Always heard Néillidh was off his game here, more like he’s in a much mellower mood than on the RZ records.

This is my track listing:

01 - Néillidh Boyle - Talking About The State Of Irish Music (in 1953)
02 - Néillidh Boyle - Pleoid ar an Fharraige (A Plague on the Sea)
03 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
04 - Néillidh Boyle - Tiarna Mhuigheo
05 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
06 - Néillidh Boyle - Miss McLeod’s
07 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
08 - Néillidh Boyle - The River Roe
09 - Néillidh Boyle - An Cailín Deas Crúite Na MBó
10 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
11 - Néillidh Boyle - The Harvest Home
12 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
13 - Néillidh Boyle - The Moving Clouds
14 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
15 - Néillidh Boyle - The Pigeon On The Gate
16 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
17 - Néillidh Boyle - Sean Sa Cheo
18 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
19 - Néillidh Boyle - Farewell To The Green Hills
20 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk
21 - Néillidh Boyle - The Song Of The Boxty (sung)
22 - Néillidh Boyle - The Song Of The Boxty (played)
23 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk about the Loughanure Tune
24 - Néillidh Boyle - The Loughanure Tune (New Mown Meadows)
25 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk about the Caoineadh
26 - Néillidh Boyle - Caoineadh
27 - Néillidh Boyle - Talk about the Blackbird
28 - Néillidh Boyle - The Blackbird

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

And this is the complete track listing for the West Wind CD:

Willie Clancy and Bobby Casey - The Old Bush, the Chicago Reel
Bobby Casey - Poll Halfpenny
Bobby Casey - Reavey’s
Willie Clancy - Rowsome’s Slip Jig
Willie Clancy - Ask My Father
Willie Clancy - The Harvest Home
Willie Clancy - The Sweep’s
Willie Clancy and Bobby Casey - The West Wind, Sean Reid’s Fancy
Willie Clancy - Give Us A Drink Of Water
Bobby Casey - The Dear Irish Boy
Willie Clancy - The Dear Irish Boy
Bobby Casey - Sean Sa Cheo
Bobby Casey - The Beauty Spot
Willie Clancy - Rakish Paddy
Willie Clancy - Talk By Willie Clancy About Garrett Barry, John & Felix Doran, The Flogging Reel
Willie Clancy and Bobby Casey - Let Us Be Drinking
Willie Clancy - Connaught Heifers
Willie Clancy - The Bright Lady
Willie Clancy - Varsoviana
Willie Clancy - Humours Of Derrykissane
Willie Clancy - Black Is The Color Of My True Love’s Hair
Willie Clancy - Jumping Charlie
Willie Clancy - Thompson Catty
Willie Clancy - Old Waltz (untitled)
Willie Clancy - Polka Mazurka (untitled)
Willie Clancy - Strop The Razor
Willie Clancy - Will You Come Down To Limerick?
Willie Clancy - The Choice Wife
Willie Clancy - Banish Misfortune
Willie Clancy - Nora Criona
Willie Clancy - Humours Of Glin
Willie Clancy - The Rocks Of Bawn
Willie Clancy - Old Hag You Have Killed Me
Willie Clancy - Humours Of Ballyloughlin
Willie Clancy - Top It Off
Willie Clancy, Aggie Whyte, Thady Casey - Whelan’s
Willie Clancy, Aggie Whyte, Thady Casey - The Shaskeen

Very interesting tunes Willie plays in the middle - perhaps whoever was manning the tape recorder asked him to play some old set tunes. This was the CD - tape listing was as TTF listed, only half. The 2nd half has a different sound quality and may have been recorded by someone else entirely. FTRX says recorded by PK and Seamus Ennis. As I said Peter was stumped for titles of most of these tunes. http://www.folktrax-archive.org/menus/cassprogs/173clancy.htm

Lots of inflammatory accusation about PK in the mudcat.org archives, if you’re a fan of flame wars.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

My comment about the Clancy tape being "only half of the original release" was certainly not a criticism, but for information of others. I’m very happy to have copies of tracks by these masters of Irish music. Thanks, FtT, and to Kevin for identifying some of the tracks.

Incidentally, the listing for the Clancy tape has track no.9 as "Give Me a Glass of Water", but it sounds to me like "Munster Buttermilk"; is this a mistake?

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

"Cairdeas is currently working on a Néillidh Boyle CD" ~ Brilliant, and the right people to be doing it. It is a must have.

Thanks for the added listens FTT, and for the added work Kevin, much appreciated…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

As I remember it, Néillidh Boyle’ other instrument was a sax…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Kevin - have you not missed out a couple of tracks from your Neilly Boyle listing? After The Loughanure Tune, there’s a wee intro on a song about poteen (called something like Rathmourca), and then the song and its tune played on fiddle.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Woops, so right you are Nigel - was listing the titles and then editing after the fact. Kind of a mess, although for the JD I had to actually make some extra track numbers…that is the Buttermilk Willie played, too.

This is how my final cut wraps up:

Néillidh Boyle - The Song Of The Boxty (sung)
Néillidh Boyle - Burke’s Street
Néillidh Boyle - Talk about the Loughanure Tune
Néillidh Boyle - Talk about the Caoineadh
Néillidh Boyle - Caoineadh
Néillidh Boyle - Talk about the Blackbird
Néillidh Boyle - The Blackbird

Also played the saxomophone, eh? Waterford piper Liam Walsh also was handy on the sax - reputedly to his personal embarrasement, apprarently he cared not a whit for the foxtrots his Orchestra was playing, and eventually gave up on jazz as potentially being morally suspect.

Jimmy Power talks in the liner note of the At the Favourite disc about going to see Liam Walsh play the pipes out-of-doors. There was thunder and lightning, and Liam put the pipes away - "they might attract the electricity!" So he played the silver flute instead - wasn’t so hot at it too, Jimmy relates. Wonderful piper though, all agree on that.

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Re: “Jungle Music”

I honestly don’t think that Néillidh Boyle’s comment on the dire influence of what he called ‘Jungle Music’ was in the least racist. He apparently used the term in conversation to refer to the terrible degenerate form of Irish music that was masquerading as traditional music at the time. I don’t think it’s a criticism of music from faraway jungles or their culture, rather it’s a lamentation of how the noble Gaelic art of music had recently decayed into Ceili Bands, Sean McGuire, and so forth. (He would say: “The way Irish music is going these days, all we’ll be left with is jungle music”. Meaning that the Gaelic music will be replaced with something that is much less subtle, less nuanced. He certainly wasn’t wrong about that.) Néillidh Boyle admired Classical music and, in common with many Scots and Irish fiddlers at the time, played a little light classical music himself. He heard my great uncle playing a fairly classical piece, mentioned its name and asked him where he learned it. I have no doubt that if he had heard Frankie Gavin’s musical jokes based on bits and pieces of Bach he would describe it as I do, ‘jungle music’!

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Wow, this is amazing stuff. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Floss the Tethers! I am grinning ear to ear listening to this. Thanks.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

‘Jungle Music’ was a term in general use at the time, not making it right, but it was ‘taken for granted’, not questioned. Some might say we live in more enlightened times with regards to the politically correct, some would say not, since we might be said to be less honest. Néillidh didn’t invent the term and it was not uncommon. He was also not the only one bewailing the influence of modern music and ways, the ‘swing’ was another thing some folks strongly disliked as ‘alien’…

Priceless treasures all this, like a ship full of whiskey breaking up on a nearby and easily accessible sand bar, lovely stuff…

The ‘captain’ obviously drunk and having lost all control, the crew having mutineed… Thank goodness someone had the wit to rescue this priceless cargo…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Allright I am old and stupid and computers and meself were never meant to get on with each other, but,
It stops every few seconds and a little pop-up says you just unplugged a device from the audio jack.
And the music is bloody beautiful and I want to kill, rape loot and pillage because oh sorry I realise you all have something else to do

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Growing up in the southern US, I never had any doubt what people meant by “jungle music.” It was purely racist. It meant any music they saw as arising or deriving from African-American culture. To a lot of people, that included most pop and rock music. What it meant across the ocean, I don’t know, but, having been sneered at more than once for playing “jungle music,” it’s hard for me to shake the association.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Nealidh is likely even before your time Bob, but I also am sensitive to it’s other connotations, but ‘jazz’ was also meant as a slur. Both were taken up by the musicians themselves, as a kind of laugh at themselves, and as mentioned already, Nealigh was involved in it himself to some extent, if more just before the ‘jazz’ in it really fizzed up and went riot. In his area of Ireland, and in areas elsewhere, including parts of Cymru, England and Scotland, a person of another colour was of interest and didn’t engender fear, distrust or racism. That developed over time, sadly. It is all about context, and not jumping too quickly to judge the past use of a thing, or to assume that it means the same thing to everyone in every situation and place. But, thankfully, it is not appropriate now. Even if it is about music from a jungle context. we now tend to credit it to the tribe that expresses itself throug music, rather than the natural surroundings it rises from… Don’t give up your distaste for the term, but consider it in history, earlier than yours, and a context completely seperate from yours or mine. It is good we have moved forward ‘some’ from then and there.

That’s me, having been beat up because for a time my best friend as a child was of a much darker shade than me. We both got harrassed, threatened and beat up, by both sides…

Seeing cigarette smoking in films about the 20s doesn’t irritate me…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I’m more put off by the characterization of Sean McGuire’s music as "degenerate" "decay." As I’m fond of telling people, if you don’t like my music, don’t listen to it. Sean didn’t become the James Scott Skinner of ITM; near as I can tell his influence is only apparent with his fans who play his Mason’s Apron on the flute or fiddle Bb hornpipe medleys. There were vastly more ruinous forces at work on the music in the 50s, hundreds of thousands of people dismissing the whole thing as noise fit only for the bog for instance. The classicism entering the music is mostly from Suzuki students attending the WCSS or the influence of polished players like Burke; I wouldn’t blame that on Sean at all. A move towards polish isn’t unique to ITM either, read some of Mark Wilson’s liner note analysis of old time or Cape Breton Scottish music.

The pub recordings of Sean are much more fiery than the LPs, too. Breandan Breathnach ranked him up with Coleman and Johnny Doran as an improviser.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

There were many things working back then to affect attitudes about Sean Maguire. I think it was Sean Maguire himself who on several occassions made the comparison with Scott Skinner and considered himself the better man / fiddler… :-D There is no shortage of characters, including the egomaniacal, amongst this music, or any other music for that matter. Rants can be a kick, including on this site, until they get personal. Influences can be outlined without the need to necessarily mention an individual as being the ‘fault’… Lots of people have gained a great deal of pleasure and inspiration from the music of Sean Maguire, and his variations, while others haven’t any patience for it at all… On either side there are those that will speak strongly for their opinion… Sean’s music will outlast us all…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Thanks, Floss the Tethers. This is going to keep me busy for a while.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I’ve sent the link to here, and your previous keys to audio treasures, to several others who are in the process of coming to terms with this music. I’ve no doubt they will benefit from the listens…

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Many thanks.

Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

A quick note to anyone wanting these recordings - Sendspace deletes unaccessed files after seven days, so, if you haven’t downloaded them yet, hit those links pronto.

Current downloads score:

An Cailin Gaelach - 28;
Casey and Clancy - 134;
John Doherty - 106;
Néillidh Boyle - 116.

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Thanks for these recordings, just listened to the Johnny Doherty one so far, great stuff!

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Listening to the Néillidh Boyle one now, that is pure gold. Thanks for these I could listen to this stuff all night :)

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

Néillidh is so funny !

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Re: Uploads - Boyle, Casey, Clancy and Doherty

I wonder if someone could put these up again? I just saw this and obviously the downloads have expired. Would absolutely love to hear these though!