I already play Lisdoonvarna and Swallowtail together, and I was wondering if it would be okay to add the Arran Boat song as well. The reason I ask is that I play old time music and I’m not as familiar with Celtic. Thank you!
If it sounds nice and you like it….play it!
Good heavens, no. What on earth are you thinking? That would be a violation of the Bylaws and Regulations of Celtic Music, chapter VII, section A, Title 9.5, paragraph zed plural alpha, which, forbids - and I quote - “the playing of any Air followed by two jigs, all being in the same key, and all falling under the heading of ‘pretty well-known tunes’ (see chart 21-8-A on page 985 of volume 7) unless said set is followed by a set containing not less than three (3) reels qualifying as ‘totally obscure, but still so traditional it would make Seamus Ennis drop a brick’ (see chart XXXX *) on a Sanctioned Traditional Instrument, unaccompanied by newfangled chordophonic or contrapunctilious gadgets.”
*chart redacted, since if anyone knew what was on it, they’d not be very obscure any more, would they? hm? got you there, didn’t we?
So no, it’s totally out. Can’t be done - unless you can find the three reels that nobody’s ever heard but are still totally canonical. Looking at the amendments, I see you might be able to get away with a set of Paddy Fahy or Ed Reavey’s reels, or some combination, with the approval of the Council on Traditional Affairs’ Allowable Sets office, but they’re a pretty tough bunch.
But hang on… Oh, here it is! You could get away with it, maybe, under this proviso, which I found in the appendix:
“Rule VII-A-9.5zz+a shall apply under all circumstances, and shall not be broken, unless the player really wants to, in which case they should have at it forthwith and without delay.”
So it seems there’s some leeway in the rules after all…
I love all three of these tunes, but have never heard them together is a set. Try it, and if it works, keep on playing it. I think it will come under rule VII-A-9.5 above🙂
Serious word of warning, sometimes you never know what bee gets into people’s bonnet over music. But at the session I go to, I such a set would be very welcome.
@Jon Kiparsky: LMAO, but what rule/clause/proviso would it fall under if acousticmusician was actually referring to the Road to Lisdoonvarna *REEL*?
Can Rule VII-A-9.5zz+a still apply?
In such a case, I might perhaps reverse SJ & RtL….
Cheers.
….I sense a bout of Mornington Crescent looming 🙂
Well, I’m at the office, so I don’t have the books with me, but I believe that would fall under a separate heading - “multiple rhythm changes within a set”. I think that’s covered in volumes 10 through 13, under the heading of “No.” (Much of this material is devoted to the Scottish Exception, which I will leave to the specialists)
No, it is possible. Acousticmusician can apply for a Conditional Use (after payment of the proper fee) and this set will be assigned a unique identifier. (Avian Migration Set Em254, I believe; it is next in the catalogue) When challenged, you just dispay the decision letter (carry these in your case at all times; no duplicates will be issued.)
The Scottish Exception only applies if the Swallowtail referred to is indeed the reel. Or then it could fall under the Donegal Codicil. I believe.
I concur with the above statements of the laws. But that sounds like a bit of an interesting set, I may have to try it out when I get home. The lisdoonvarna reel blew my mind the first time I heard it; I’m a displaced Kerryman so I love my slides and usually have the boring set of lisdoonvarna, dennis murphy’s and o’keefe’s. One day I was bodhraning for my mate’s fiddling and he whipped out the lisdoonvarna reel and I missed a whole beat(which I quickly covered with an overabundance of unnecessary triplets). The scary thing was that he hadn’t even heard of the lisdoonvarna single jig. So, my pointless digression leads me to the point: if it sounds good I really wouldn’t worry about what some finicky traditionalists(I may be included in this category) say about it.
I forbid you.
Someone I play with has played this for years, must be on a CD by some band somewhere. She does the Arran Boat Song into Road to Lisdoonvarna. In fact, I can’t seem to play the Arran Boat Song without the slide after it anymore. I’ll have to ‘thank’ her for that. (lol)
My only ‘trad Nazi’ beef is that The Road to Lisdoonvarna is a slide. Please play it as one. Slides are not jigs. Thank you for your time and consideration.
(Promotional fees paid for by the Irish Slide Preservation Society.)
Is it a sick bird (illegal) to follow Road To Lisdoonvarna with Morrison’s? We play these tunes in this order at our local sessions.
Sigh…and I bet they think those are two jigs, right? 😉
It’s all good. My battle is a losing one, I know. Vainly fighting the rearguard action against the jigification of slides. HA!
No Mr. Fauxcelt, there are really no ‘rules’ about what tunes to play with what, that’s half the fun sometimes, spontaneous sets on the fly, or getting to know other localities’ sets which use familiar tunes in different ways.
For example, a classic warhorse set of jigs here in SW Florida is Morrison’s/Kesh/Swallowtail, go figure.
How about Morrison’s, London Calling, Rights of Man
On Banjo!
Since I am just the player piano (also known as the piano player according to the Official Bylaws of the Irish Sessions as quoted by Mr. Kiparsky above) and therefore this means that hereby I am Officially Not In Charge, I am not sure whether or not the musicians (using the term loosely) at the local sessions think both Road To Lisdoonvarna and Morrison’s are jigs or something even more unusual and exotic. Since I am the player piano (also known as the piano player according to the Official Bylaws of the Irish Sessions as quoted above by Mr. Kiparsky) and therefore this means that hereby I am Officially Not In Charge, I do not pick and choose which tunes are played together in which sets at the local Sessions.
Is it legal to Slide into a Jig? Or is that another sick bird? To quote Sam The American Eagle from the Muppet Show: “I don’t write this stuff”.
Shanty, if it is legal to play any of these tunes on the piano, it should also be just as legal to play them on the banjo. However, that question may have to be referred to Mr. Kiparsky since he seems to have a more in-depth knowledge of the Official Bylaws.
We often play Arran Boat + R to L + Toormore
https://thesession.org/tunes/110
The change to Bmin in the Toormore works well
I’m with you all the way SWFL fiddler! I love my slides and will not mingle them with double jigs!
Well sure Cloidendragan, I see from you’re bio you’re from Dingle. Up them slides! 😉
Mr. Fauxcelt, people often jig into a reel, Arran Boat Song into a slide that’s played like a jig by some, etc. No problemo. It’s the playing of slides as jigs that always bugs me. Just one of those finer points only the absurdly obsessed carry on about!
Blah dithery dump a doodle scattery idle fortunoodle!
Brilliant! I love it.
If the melody players at the local sessions either cannot tell the difference between jigs and slides or they don’t care, I don’t worry about it because I am merely one of the backup musicians/accompanists. I am more concerned with playing in the correct key and the correct rhythm. I will leave the enforcement of the Official Bylaws to the absurdly obsessed people who are beyond professional help and so sick that they enjoy it.
I don’t mean to be rude but I believe the differences between jigs and slides are emphasis and rhythm. 12/8 vs 6/8 is a bit of a difference and I don’t believe it’s obsessive to make a point of playing them differently. Reels, hornpipes, and polkas, depending if you choose 2/2, 4/4, or 2/4(the only difference is, of course, on paper) can seem similar but you wouldn’t dream of playing them the same.
Thank you for the clarification, Cloigendragan, nor do I think you were being rude.
How about a nice waltz (Amelia’s Waltz, not ITM but nice) followed by Swallowtail followed by Green Groves of Eirann? Each rhythm change pushes the tempo and so by the time we get to GGoE, we’re at top (but comfortable) speed. People listening (not sessions, usually busking or casual concerts) love it! Melody played on mandolin (regular or octo) or bazouki, and backing on double strung harp…PFG if I do say so m’self!
Oh, and one of my all time favourite combos is Arran BS followed by She Moved Through the Fair. Different key (C) from the above (D) so there’s no further mix n match for me. Arran BS in a Dorian mode, ending as it does on the dominant, is followed by She Moved etc in Mixolydian mode with an odd not-quite-polyryhthm of 3/4 melody in right hand, and 6/8 triplets (tonics & 5th) in left hand. Definitely NOT a dance set, but it holds the audience and self!