How Irish?

How Irish?

Just wondering how Irish a tune needs to be for inclusion here. I can see a few that possibly aren’t - which pleases me - and wonder whether it would be OK to post The Dancing Oolert, an English tune (or at least a tune written by Sally Kirkpatrick who appears to be from mainland Britain).

Sorry if this has been answered a hundred times - I thought of trawling through 2,713 pages of previous discussions… but not for long.

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Re: How Irish?

the dancing oolert…yes…that sounds frightfully British to me.
The Dancing Alert is a much better tune.

Re: How Irish?

People drop all kinds of stuff in here. A standard I think is if
it’s been recorded by a recognised Irish Trad musician or you
learned it from the source. But this isn’t rocket science is it. Four
men and a dog record bluegrass tunes and lots of other
‘recognised’ Trad players cross over to other forms.

Re: How Irish?

Can you imagine a good player you know of, brought up in or otherwise steeped in Irish traditional music, playing the tune? What would it sound like? Would it seem quite congruent with what he / she normally does, or somehow out of kilter with it?

That’s one way into the matter.

Re: How Irish?

I always think it doesn’t matter where the tune comes from or who composed it, but whether it mixes well with old traditional tunes. There are many weird tunes recorded or composed by contemporary Irish musicians, and they don’t count as *traditional* Irish tunes.

Re: How Irish?

slainte

I could not agree more with you ! —- Scottish and Irish tune’s have been shared for years in session’s etc — Why not English and Welsh in same session or set ,, I am all for Each Country sticking to its own style for there Tradition ,,, But don’t see why they cant be use along with one another - Even in gigs etc, too!
It’s not a new thing I’am sure,, But might make an nice interesting change to music sessions etc —-
jim,,,,

Re: How Irish?

I thought this site was called " The Session" not "The Irish Session"

Re: How Irish?

What about Smeceno Horo or Mominsko Horo?

Are they Irish yet?

Are they anything your actual Bulgarian or Macedonian would recognise, or do they bear the relation to the Balkan stuff that British Asian food bears to real Asian food?

(This isn’t to knock them as played by Planxty, they’re rousing stuff…)

Does it matter?

In 100 years, will they be seen as just rather stolid show tunes that got stuck in the trad repertoire because they weren’t nimble enough to evade capture, like some played by a few one-row melodeon players in England around 1950?

As "Private Eye" always puts it, I think we should be told…

Re: How Irish?

"I thought this site was called " The Session" not "The Irish Session"

Exactly!

Re: How Irish?

Thanks for all the responses.

Duijera Dubh: I look forward to you posting The Dancing Alert!

Stoneyjohn: 1st sentence of home page reads "The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish music alive". I took that as a preference for traditional Irish.

Others: Whether it mixes well is a good principle but hard to implement. I’ve enjoyed playing or hearing the following in medleys of essentially trad tunes: Apache, Archers theme (=Barwick Green - with Lillibulero), Can Can (=Galope), Dambusters March (with Staines Morris), Doo wah diddy (goes great with Willafjord), Monty Python theme (=Liberty Bell march - nice with Fiery Clockface), Mozart’s horn concerto in Eb K495, Time to ring some changes, Wonderful Land (with Sherwood Rangers)… and those are just the ones I recognised.

So I guess my inclinations would not be a reliable guide.

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Re: How Irish?

………well hanging about during cancellations at Manchester Airport, I browsed the audio selection in a shop.

Among them was an album called ’ Songs of Old Ireland’ & tracks included, ‘I belong to Glasgow’

Can’t get more oirish than that!?!

Re: How Irish?

Not bad for a bit of ango-celtica eh.
The English Royal Family just loves this stuff.

Re: How Irish?

especially the younger generation. You just go ask them.

Re: How Irish?

Wow, Duijera Dubh, how do you pack so much lack of communication into just 4 lines? That’s some gift.

"sorry to say, but it[what?]’s still[when wasn’t it?] crp [Child-Resistant Packaging? Combat Reconnaissance Platoon? or if you mean Crap, just say so - nobody can take offence if we don’t know what you’re referring to]."
[What point does you YouTube link make the second time you post it that it didn’t the first time?]
"Get real[who’s the fake?] if you[who?] want to play english celtic[I don’t know what that is, but I don’t see anybody on this thread expressing that wish].
Wakey wakey![How many people do you think are reading your post in their sleep? And how many of them woke up as a consequence?]"

Now I’m off to sleep.

Re: How Irish?

The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish music alive. This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes.
I would have thought thesession.org was intended for Irish music, although alot of tunes from across the wave are posted here aswell

Re: How Irish?

GOOD ONE =

"I thought this site was called " The Session" not "The Irish Session"

jim,,,

Re: How Irish?

What something is named, does not always define it! Eg "Cor Anglais" is neither English, nor a horn, though it might be something which the French would like to believe that the Filthy English (Perfide Albion!) think is a horn!

Re: How Irish?

The music on "A Celtic Odyssey" rather took away my will to live. Never were the words of the hedgehog in Mike Heron’s song more apposite:

"Oh you know all the words and you sung all the notes / but you never quite learned the song…"

The words ‘English Celtic’ rather put me in mind of the BNP’s espousal of ‘the English and Celtic peoples’ - or whatever…not that I am inferring the band have any connections with BNP. The plethora of glum standing stones on the album cover suggest a culture terminally deranged.

Re: How Irish?

I’ve never seen the point of posting things here that nobody’s going to look for here - it just makes searching by things other than name more difficult. It’s not like somebody’s going to pick up some random Bulgarian piece because it was mis-filed under "reels"… But functionally, nothing’s stopping you. Might as well go ahead, if you must.

Re: How Irish?

Jon Kiparsky: Funny you should say that. I hadn’t been in here for an age until Mr Google recently sent me here for a tune I was after.

The tune? Jiggery Pokerwork, "a lovely jig written by the English melodeon player John Spiers" as it says in the comments.

Hard to know who’s looking for what where, I’d say.

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Re: How Irish?

The Session is its own centre of gravity. It is the most accessible and comprehensive online source of Irish dance music along with discussions / craic that I am aware of. Furthermore, to my knowledge there is no single equivalent in the realms of Scottish and of English music. So The Session becomes a kind of capital city.

Part of my thing - Northumbrian and the brisker tunes in the English tradition - snuggles with little bother under the armpit of the mighty Session beast. But I don’t think it would be appropriate for someone to systematically download the whole of Bacon’s compendium of Morris tunes, for instance.

Re: How Irish?

If "Music for a Found Harmonium" can be here, I don’t see why not.

Re: How Irish?

Music For A Found Harmonium has been, for their own inscrutable reasons, played in gigs and recorded by certified Irish or hiberno-compatible trad gods. This puts it In, giving it ‘mana’ akin to that of holy water blessed by the Pope; it is Kosher.

I think it’s a horrible bloody tune myself, but it stays on the shrine from now till Armageddon because, well, that’s just the Way It Is…

Re: How Irish?

It would be Nice to have an Index of =

English / Irish / Scottish / Welsh / - Tunes etc,

I do pitty the say, Very Intelligent, and even
perhaps nice mild mannered English Man - Who tries
his very best to sort it out ! —
Only to hear the Celtic Growl’s form up North and
over the sea — All over the head of a tune Like
Rakish Paddy,, or is it,, "Caber Feidh, (The Deer’s Antlers)"
- lol.

https://thesession.org/tunes/86

Good - Luck ! if it get’s maybe started - jim,

Re: How Irish?

"The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish music alive. This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes."

Yes, that has been quoted many times. Of course that’s only the opinion of Jeremy but it’s his site and we should play within his rules.

But, is that the exchange of only Irish tunes that keeps Irish music alive or is it just the exchange of tunes regardless of where they’re from. Only Jeremy himself can give us a definitive answer, at least as far as posting tunes on this site is concerned.

Re: How Irish?

Jeremy doesn’t care what tunes you post. He’s only interested in the numbers

Posted .

Re: How Irish?

He’s not going to be able to monitor every brick in the humungous Tower of Babel we’re erecting.

Re: How Irish?

Bring it all on-just don’t tell Seamus Tansey!

Re: How Irish?

IMHO it is the mustard members who decide which tunes make up thesessioncollection. Specifically, those who actually post abcs. Not to short change Jeremy Keith’s holding the deed on this site. But it has been 6+ years since he has contributed a tune;
"O’Neill’s March"
Submitted on December 6th 2003 by Jeremy
https://thesession.org/tunes/2236

Posted by .

Re: How Irish?

It is fairly obvious to all that this website is primarily intended for Irish music, but, as far as I can tell, there is nothing in the rules here that specifically excludes non-Irish tunes from being posted. The absence of such an exclusion clause must reflect the difficulty, perhaps impossibility, of defining what is meant by an "Irish tune", and of applying a putative definition to individual cases. Think of the furore if an excellent tune that happened to be "border-line" were to be excluded on the basis only of a "definition"!

Let’s leave well alone. The posting of the occasional obviously non-Irish tune (like the two Hungarian tunes posted yesterday for a very specific reason) is not going to detract from the wonderful corpus of Irish tunes already here, which already are, and will remain, in the vast majority. Irish music, like all folk music, is not something to be ruined by the construction of legalistic rules and regulations, which will inevitably get more complex as time goes on.

Re: How Irish?

The reality of many an Irish tune seems to pullulate in a nimbus rather than be something trenchantly definable. Let the corpus of Irish music exist similarly. Well - it does and it will, whether one likes it or not!