Polka Question

Does anyone know the history of the Polka in Irish music?

Yes, someone does, but he’s not telling.

I’d love to give you a wide explanation, but being a Pole myself, and married to one Polka [which in local vernacular means “a Polish woman”], I’m afraid you’d find my account largely biased and ungrounded.

Well thanks EastPole (oops -- I just hit ‘k’ instead of ‘l’ ) that’s something I’ve learned.

http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/polka.htm

Remembering of course that though the dance name and maybe the dance itself has origins in central and eastern Europe the actual tunes do not. They are from Ireland and Scotland.

I think this is a decent article, though these things are rarely set in stone. http://www.standingstones.com/cmaoitm.html

On dances in general that is……

Nice link, bogman! 🙂 - Worth adding to the “links” section of this website (if you haven’t already done so).

:-| mm, mmmmm, mm, mmm, mmm mm mmm mm mmmm mmmmm…

RU humming a polka there, ceol? 😉

bogman, that’s an interesting article, the history seems fairly nuanced. The ‘which is older?’ section about polkas and reels was fascinating.

Mr. C, I can’t name that polka just from that, sorry. 😛

That article doesn’t really give enough detail. If I remember right the polka hit Europe in 1843, Ireland being nor far behind everywhere else.

But Irish polkas are now a bit different from those of continental Europe; they tend to be faster with less marked accents and less complicated forms (the original Jenny Lind Polka has something like 8 sections). English ones haven’t diverged as much from the European style, and the dance didn’t strike roots in Scotland (perhaps because we already had too many dances in duple rhythm for there to be room for another one).

The interesting part of the story is what happened AFTER 1843. It shouldn’t be impossibly difficult to research that.

I tried to post this earlier, but the server must have been on the fritz.

I have always been told the Polka was Czech in origin. The Poles get the credit though. Actually several family trees. The Irish seems to have developed from the Swedish Polka. Lighter. Much different that Frankie Yankovic and Myron Floren.

Someone mentioned Jenny Lind and 1843. Actually a bit earler in the 19th century, I am told. Does not change the fact it was a big hit very quickly.

The Central European Polka is more heavy handed. In Chicago we call it the “Polish Stomp”. Anyone who was exposed to Lil Wally, or spent late evenings at VFW halls for Polish weddings, (Wieceju wodki, prosze bardzo!) will recognize the difference immediately.

can’t spell in english or polish ‘Wiecej’

also, coincided with the invention and development of the diatonic button accordion in 1812-14 ish

Thanks for taking the trouble to post the link Bogman, but what the man writes is a hopeless muddle. Take this bit from the very start:

……………………………………………………………………………………..

What is traditional?

The first point derives from the music being labeled “traditional”. What does this mean? For every player/singer, there is a definition, but the prime common factor is typically some notion of “age”-it’s being an “old” form of music. As Einstein might indicate to us, time is relative. Look at the Bunting, Joyce and Petrie Collections (the works of the early “great” collectors). They all invariably describe certain tunes as “ancient”. This is the typical terminology of the “antiquarians” of their day (which they all were themselves). BUT, how old is old and ancient? A house in North America built in the 1700s is rare and considered very old. Alone in the small town in which I live, Ballyshannon in County Donegal there are several of them. How old is ancient? When Christ was born! That is a pretty good stab at ancient. Twice a day every weekday, I drive by a man-made religous structure that was very old when Christ was born!

We have a notion about “traditional” Irish dance music as being ancient. Certainly we have read as much in the great collections. The evidence (and this is critical and forms the basis of investigation into this subject) can only be derived from published collections and other literary accounts of what was played at various periods and it must be noted that these sources also contain their inaccuracies. If publications are examined through time, there is a clear indication that the body of tunes we now generally consider as traditional were composed in the 1700 and 1800s. For some, this is old, for others, it is hard to conceive of this as being ancient, and therefore not traditional.

…………………………………………………………………….

The man is just not cut out to write about the meaning or definition of words. He’s missed the core meaning of “traditional” (that it refers to something handed down) and gone off on an irrelevant tangent about “old”. The last sentence is incoherent, the whole article is similarly confused and confusing.

Och aye it’s messy alright but there’s a fair bit of reasonable stuff in there too. All these fill in the blanks type articles need a pinch of salt but line up enough articles and you might find something worth knowing 😉 …..or maybe not…..

thanks to everybody who responded. I asked an open ended question and got some good answers

djiekuje