Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Just how many tracks did the original LP have?
Some queries were raised here:
https://thesession.org/recordings/281
but were apparently never answered.
Was there a re-issue of the LP with a different sleeve design?
Were tracks added at the time the CD was produced?

Your help would be appreciated.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

I can’t answer the specific question, but in general terms the producer might add extra tracks to a CD (as “bonus” tracks perhaps) for the simple reason that an LP is unlikely to have a capacity of more than 60 minutes, whereas a CD can hold 80 minutes worth of music.

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

The original LP (at least I think it’s original, there’s no date but I bought it in about 1971) has a picture of some men in a building site below a red stripe with the title in black.

There are 15 or 17 tracks depending on how you count them, viz:

Side 1

1a Hall’s Favourite and Lafferty’s Reel
1b Paddy Fahey’s Jig
2 Eileen Curran and The Bunch of Keys
3 Paddy Ryan’s Dream
4 Lucy Campbell and Toss the Feathers
5a The Ragged Hank of Yarn
5b The Bank of Ireland, The Woman of the House and The Morning Dew
6 Dennis Murphy’s Hornpipe
7 The Yellow Tinker and The Humours of Scarrif

Side 2

1 The Chorus Reel
2 Callaghan’s Reel
3 Kitty’s Rambles and Dan the Cobbler
4 Jenny Picking Cockles and Kitty in the Lane
5 The Graf Spee and Ballinasloe Fair
6The Moher Reel
7 Farewell to Erin and Duffy the Dancer
8 Doctor O’Neill and The Battering Ram

Phew! If someone else posts this while I’ve been typing it…..

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

PS

The LPitself is labelled “First published in 1968” but I don’t suppose that proves it’s a first edition.

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Here’s a comparison thanks to Slightly Mad Scientist’s post;

Paddy in Smoke CD
1. Maudabawn Chapel (aka Hall’s Favourite)/Lafferty’s
8. Jolly Tinker15. Condon’s Frolics/James McMahon’s Favourite
18. Farewell To Erin/The High (aka Duffy the Dancer)
20. Mulvihill’s/Tie The Bonnet/The Abbey

Paddy in Smoke LP
Side 1 (1a) Hall’s Favourite (aka Maudabawn Chapel) and Lafferty’s Reel
Side 2 (7) Farewell to Erin and Duffy the Dancer (aka The High)

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comparison & contrast?

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Slightly Mad Scientist: Thanks for your hard work and also confirmation that there was an earlier sleeve.
Thanks Random Humour for the C&C. Think I’ll buy the CD to get the extra tracks.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

You’re welcome; while looking for it, I found several other LPs I didn’t even remember I’d got so maybe I should thank you!

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

For the “record” I have added your answers to the Paddy in the Smoke entry in therecordings section.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

No it’s not - that is the cover used when it was released as a CD. The LP cover is different. It shows a bunch of guys standing outside a building site. The music was recorded in 1967, and quote - “first issued by Topic Records 1968” - according to the sleeve notes on the back of my copy of the record.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

I love that font: Bodoni Poster. It’s very 60s but still fresh.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Yes…I stand corrected on that. Unfortunately soon after the original came out I loaned my copy to a ‘friend’ to tape the tunes, He disappeared off the radar and so did my record. . I was actually gigging in the Favourite at the time that the record was issued. Bill Leader use to come to the trad sessions and as far as I could tell he just let the ‘reel to reel tape’ run. The tracks featured were taken from hours of recordings. The photo attached was taken in the Favourite and shows some of the musicians from that era. They had formed a ceili band, and were also doing some gigs around other venues at the time..
Jimmy Power is front left/ Reg Hall is rear right/ I think that is Bill Leader lying on the bar at the back and Kathleen McManamon, the Landlady, is behind the bar filling a short.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/4733059562_e3e5a763e9_b.jpg

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Hey Free Reed, that’s brilliant. Bet you’ve got some great stories.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

One of the great recordings of traditional Irish music …some might think the greatest…Mairtín Byrnes in full flight.. Did you know Martín at that time Free Reed?

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Kenny, Topic changed the lp’s cover during it’s run. I have the lp with the cover photograph (by John Harrison) shown in the link. Different lettering though. And that’s how it looked in the shops I saw it during the mid eighties (when I bought mine).

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

I have the original LP as described by Kenny, with the building site workers on the cover.
That´s a lovely old photo, Free Reed.
I recognise dear old Mick Masterson (r.i.p.), bearded, third from the left. Isn´t that Mary Kilkenny sitting beside him ?
Ron Somers is there, standing behind his snare drum.
Is the flute player, 2nd from the right, Johnny Hynes from Banagher ? I´m not too sure about that. It could be Paddy Breen.

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Yes that is Ron Summers with the drum, Mary Kilkenny and Masterson with the beard both ring a bell. The box player is Paddy Mylin from Longford I remember, Its a long time ago but I’m nearly sure that the flute player and fiddler on the right are Tommy Healy and Johnny Duffy. I also remember the piper so well but his name escapes me. He is however featured on the sleeve of the CD watching the two dancers( see my previous post with photo). The band was called the Four Courts Ceili Band. I played for Tom and Kath McManaman in their pub at Bromley by Bow (that’s where I first met Jimmy Power) When they moved to the Favourite in Holloway in 1967 I started doing a gig there on Saturday night, and Jimmy, Reg Hall and Jimmy’s son Tommy started on Sunday morning. As a matter of interest among the regulars at the pub was John and Eileen Lydon (Johnny Rotten’s parents)The Sunday morning session took off and I used to join in but to be honest the quality of the musicians who turned up from all over London left me listening more than playing. I do remember seeing Martin Byrnes ( I also remember seeing him playing the fiddle in a film around that time). Bobby Casey, Sean O’Shea, Lucy Farr, Rodger Sherlock, Paddy Carty (flute) Tommy McCarthy Concertina/Pipes were also regular visitors. Eventually Jimmy extended the session to other nights. I moved off to play drums and box with a group (more money). I fell in love with the barmaid who worked at the Sunday morning sessions and took her with me. We married and are still together. Jimmy Power & Co stayed until the eighties. Then the tax man wanted a pile of money from him for all the years he was there. They say it was too much for him and sad to say I was at his funeral sometime in the eighties I think. The last time I was in London I visited the area. There is nothing left of the pub now and Benwell Road where it stood is part of the new Arsenal Football Ground. Sad really but great memories.

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Wow, that was a post rich in anecdotes, Free Reed , and with a romantic angle as well !
I think you´re right, the flute player is probably Tommy Healy.
I can´t remember the piper´s name either. Was it Talty ?
I have very fond memories of Jimmy Power and Tommy McCarthy. They came to my father´s funeral in 1971. He was secretary of West London Comhaltas and they said some very nice things about him

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I’ve a more than sneaking suspicion that the piper is Felix Doran.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Ref. the link in Free Reed´s first post which shows the men dancing on the pavement outside the pub, the man dancing with his back to the camera is Michael Gorman, partner of Maggie Barry and composer of the well known reel “The Mountain Road”

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Sometimes … I like this web site

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Thanks Free Reid.
Nobody ever did identify all the LP covers on the Favourite’s Mantel piece

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Murfbox: Any chance you could post a scan of the original sleeve somewhere? It would be nice to see it again. I suspect many copies of this LP were worn out by constant playing to learn the tunes. This was certainly the case in my neck of the woods.

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Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

@deeor: OK, I´ll try and do it over the weekend as I´ll need some “technical assistance” from my son. I´m not very handy on these machines.

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Murfbox - Was your dad Edmond Murphy by any chance. Big man, played the fiddle i think. Another few that come to mind that I remember seeing there on occasions were flute player Paddy Taylor, his son played the piano, and fiddle players Con Curtain and Danny Meehan. I’m still working on the piper, his name will come to me eventually……..he said hopefully.

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No, Free Reed, my dad´s name was Liam. He wasn´t a musician but was mad for the music. He knew Edmond well although was no relation.
Edmond was active in South London Comhaltas and would often come to our west London sessions in Fulham. I think he was also on the Council of Britain Comhaltas committee.
All the Taylor family were stalwarts of the west london branch as they lived just across the river in Chiswick.
Paddy´s son, Kevin, died relatively young - a victim to The Big “C”.
In fact, Paddy´s daughter, Katie, is a member of this board. I can´t remember her user name. She just posted a couple of times, a few years ago, to clear up some doubt that existed about the tune “Little Katie Taylor”.
There´s a Comhaltas branch in Chicago called the Murphy-Roche School of Irish Music (or something like that) and when, on a visit to Chicago a couple of years ago, I called there for the session, I was surprised and delighted to find out that the “Murphy” part of the name was in honour of Edmond whose neice helps to run the branch.
I think Edmond´s son has an Irish dancing school somewhere in south London.

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Interesting post there Murpbox….I am now reasonably sure (there is always a doubt in these things) that the piper’s name was Tommy Sheridan and that completes the line out. I was always of the opinion that the old man featured on the Paddy in the Smoke sleeve was old Mick Gorman. I had seen him do his party piece in the pub on a few occasions. He had a nephew called Johnny, who played the flute. He used to play with Jimmy Power on occasions. I was coming back from a session in the World’s End Pub near the Borough one night on a bus, early sixties.. I was sitting with Johnny up on the top deck and talking music. To my amazement, and the rest of the passenger’s amazement, he took out the flute and played Mama’s Pet for me as we were passing Liverpool Street Stn. I still laugh when I think of it.

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Great posts from the two of ye! Martín Byrnes was a lovely wild man in the later part of his life but what was his style in those days? Was he an individual always?

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I never knew him to talk to although I saw him plenty of times at The Favourite on Sundays.
He wore his hair in a long ponytail which, for a man in those times, marked him out as being very unconventional - to say the least !
When he lived in Ireland, I think he worked for Garech Browne (of the Guinness family and patron of Irish music) looking after his horses.
However, all this is just recollection and I haven´t checked it with wikipedia or any other source.
Nothing more to say about him, really, except that I loved his music and still do.

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Thanks Murfbox..I knew him myself when he stayed out in Garechs and later in Rathfarnham.A nice man who I believe many people only gave credit as a great musician after he had died.

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I had only vaguely heard of him till he came into the Favourite. Although he wasn’t what you might call a regular visitor, like Bobby Casey who never seemed to miss a session, I do remember that he seemed to be held in high regard by more knowledgeable than I.
If you google in Archival Sound Recordings then go to World and Traditional music. Search for his name. He’s in there been interviewed along with many more of his peers.

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I was only in The Favourite a couple of times in the 1970s but remember them well. Wish now I’d made the trek more often.

A while ago BBC radio did a half-hour documentary about the Favourite made by the daughter of one of the regulars on learning it was to be demolished. I probably learned about it on this board. Anyway I recorded it and have posted it here:

http://www.box.net/shared/n3a7ebgp4f

Will leave it up for a few days.

BTW thanks to whoever swept out the distracting autoproctological comments that had appeared in this topic 🙂

Re: Number of tracks on Paddy in the Smoke LP

Thanks Free Reed.In later life,and many of the O’Donoghues and Slatterys ,Dublin regulars will remember,he used place his long beard over his fiddle .Never under it.It was a joy to watch and the pleasure of listening to Mairtín playing his lovely East Galway music was something I will never forget.

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Thanks Jeeves.Looking forward to a good listen.

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I promised I’d stick to music but what does autoproctological mean?

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Well, we can parse it out–proctology is a medical profession that deals with colon issues, while auto means do it yourself–so it probably means something unpleasant…

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Brilliant!

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Thanks Jeeves Tones for the chance to hear that programme on the demise of the pub. As a point of interest Jimmy Power is buried in Southgate Cemetery in north London, in fact my own parents are buried near his grave. I once saw his son Tommy on the BBC giving advice on antique Toby Jugs. Seemingly he is or was into antiques in a big way. I smile to myself when I think of the comment Jimmy would have made on that.

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Free Reed, you are correct about Bill Leader “just letting the reel to reel tape run” on Sunday mornings. He later spent long hours editing along with Reg Hall to end up with the finished product.
Reg wrote the notes for the record sleeve, including alternative titles for some of the tunes. That’s a fine photo you have linked of the musicians, but Bill is not in it.
The original sleeve photo was taken by Brian Shuel “The Folk Photographer”, who was a professional and found a niche producing photos of folk/trad activities for various publications.
The later photo was taken by John Waterson (cousin to Norma, Lal, and Michael, and a member of the original Waterson Family). Murfbox, are you sure that is Michael Gorman dancing? He was such a reserved, quiet fellow.

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Sorry, that’s John Harrison, not Waterson (but he was a “Waterson”…)

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Well, I´m 99% sure, because he used to often come to The White Hart in Fulham where Raymond Rowland, Liam Farrell, P.J.Crotty and Roger Sherlock used to play.
He never took off his hat and I only ever saw him wearing his suit. It was quite common in those days for the older men to wear suits.
He would do what´s known these days as sean nos dancing.
As you say, he seemed reserved and quiet and I think he only ever did his party piece when he was asked.
The image of him, with his hat, dancing is kind of engraved in my memory and when I saw the photo, it clicked straight away.

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I never met Michael Gorman but the fellow with the hat looks nothing like the photos I have seen of him. For one thing, none of the photos of MG show him wearing specs, but more conclusively, by the mid-1960s he had put on a lot of weight and was quite portly. He also had plenty of hair left, which yer man in the hat seems not to have.

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Yes, the photos in your link certainly don´t look much like the dancer on the pavement.
Michael Gorman died in 1970, and the period when I used to go to the White Hart was 69-72. The pavement dancer was certainly the one I used to see in the White Hart and he was very well known.
I just re-read Geoff Wallis´s review of MG´s album “The Sligo Champion” and I´m beginning to suspect that the man I thought was Michael Gorman may have been his brother Martin. The plot thickens!
Any ideas, Free Reed? or Bronstein?
One thing is certain, Reg Hall would know for sure.

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I´ve just been talking to banjo Mick O´Connor who has confirmed that the little old chap with the hat was Martin Gorman.
Mick, who is never short of a story or two, said that Martin used to tell people that his wife was dating Michael Coleman in the USA, but when she met Martin she dropped MC and promptly married Martin.
Mick will be one of the banjo tutors at Willie Week this year, together with Kieran Hanrahan and an Australian lady whose name I can´t remember.

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Re the cover picture taken outside with Favourite with men dancling - the man at centre back watching and smiling is piper Tommy Sheridan, a regular at Sunday lunchtime sessions in the Favourite - often seen wearing carpet slippers (After a week in wellies!)

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Jeez, what a terrific recording this is!

Just thought I’d bump this up in the off chance someone hasn’t heard it or missed reading the stories in this discussion. This record sets a new gold standard for me…