When is a roll a roll?

When is a roll a roll?

I have seen and heard people pull off the strings on the rolls they make, others just play the notes while some hammer very hard on the extra notes.

So, my question is the following: Do we have different types of rolls in the execution or do they all fall under the classification ‘rolls’. How do you play them?

Gerry O’Connor (the fiddler) plays lovley rolls, what is that he does differently than others?

Your feedback is grealy appreciated as always

The Shylock

Re: When is a roll a roll?

I am not sure about stringed instruments, but on a flute, you have short rolls and long rolls(and other fancy type of rolls like the crann roll and other stuff).

You can kind of slide up to do a long roll, where the roll is very quick. Or you can do a long roll where the cut and tap are accented a little more. The long roll would be equal to the single note with the dot at the bottom there. I think a dotted note? I am not an expert at sheet music, so please forgive my descriptions of the notes. So, a long roll would be: E(cut)E(tap)E. So, in the Banshee, on the first G, you can do a long roll there. G(cut)G(tap)G DED. Also, where there are triplets, it sounds good to use the long roll. But that is on the flute. Triplets sound good on the stringed instruments.

The short roll would be equal to just the normal note. Again, sorry for my lack of words for the notes. It would be more like:
(cut)E(tap)E. It is a very quick roll and flows nicely as well. It also goes well with the single note or the double note, like in the beginning of Tripping Up the Stairs or the Lilting Banshee. You can pull off the short rolls while doing E(cut)A(tap)A EAA

I hope that is more help than confusion.

Re: When is a roll a roll?

A roll is a roll, except when it isn’t.

There are lots of ways to do a roll. You can make each note sound a distinct pitch, or they can just be percussive bouncing of fingers off the strings. You can use the standard fingerings for them, or not.

I’ve thought about this some, because I’ve found myself doing roll-y things that aren’t quite like the standard roll. I don’t really care what it’s classified as, as long as it has the right rhythm and fits the tune.

I get the feeling that the standard definition of a long or short roll is more a description of the typical way to do them rather than a rule to follow. I’m honestly not even sure what my fingers are doing anymore when I do a left hand ornament, I just slam the fingers down to make the sound I want. Sometimes it’s like a typical roll, sometimes I think I’m hitting the upper grace note twice before lifting, other times I don’t have a clue what’s going on.

There are a lot of different ways to pull off left hand ornaments I think, you could come up with a whole slew of names for the different things fiddlers do, or just call them all rolls or grace notes or whatever makes you happy. I’m sure that there’s a line somewhere where you stop sounding Irish and it becomes incorrect, but I’m not going to get into that, and I think it really comes down to the sound rather than what the fingers are actually doing.

Re: When is a roll a roll?

If you are playing the flute or the fiddle or the box, where the note is sustained during a roll, the ornamentation is usually done differently to guitar or mandolin or bouzouki, where you are relying on sustain of the string or extra input from the right hand, or hammer-ons and pull-offs with the left. Rolls on the same instrument can also be done, as has been mentioned, with varying degrees of length of grace-note, from full-throated fluid melody to brisk percussive tap. But in any event a roll is, as far as I can tell, a melody note split into parts by virtue of two other notes, one above and one below. Other ornaments not having those ingredients usually have different names, like doubling, cran, grip, etc.

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Re: When is a roll a roll?

when it sneezes!

Re: When is a roll a roll?

Assigning names to ornaments doesn’t seem very important,
nor does arguing whether the word "roll" applies or not in a
particular case. What difference does it make? I like FIDDLE4s
terminology - everything is a twiddle. You have all different kinds
of twiddles.

Re: When is a roll a roll?

Gerry O’Connor rules, btw - I hope he comes back to Australia
soon. Last time he came I went to one of gigs, bought Journeyman,
and then ….

Re: When is a roll a roll?

I think when French fiddlers do it, it is called a croissant.

Re: When is a roll a roll?

I like sausage rolls.

Re: When is a roll a roll?

you do ? yuk full of fat and breadcrumb stick with gregs pasties

Re: When is a roll a roll?

No. Cinnamon rolls all the way.

Re: When is a roll a roll?

It’s all about the kaiser

Re: When is a roll a roll?

My dog loves to roll in smelly things.