New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Hey guys!

I’ve been playing Irish music for a number of years now, and just finished a CD of music to trad + modern arrangements — all of the tunes I wrote myself. Just thought i’d share this with you and would love to hear your thoughts on what you can hear of the sample on my website!
—— the CD is intended for Irish dancing, BUT I think the tunes are awesome and I hope you enjoy them too - would love to hear your feedback! Check it out here:

http://www.diddledum.com
UnReeL: Music for Champions
Debut album by John-Allen Smith


Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback!

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Sorry, cannot imagine any of these tunes turning up at a session near me anytime soon.

In fact, not even close to the idiom. I guess performance and competition dancers don’t use the real thing!

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It’s a shame that you don’t seem to be in the slightest bit interested in Irish diddley music.

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Couldn’t get the link, I just kept getting the Malwarebytes pop-up each time I tried.

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Sorry, not for me. I prefer Irish trad, which is why I visit this site.

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The samples from your album sound like the kind of low quality library albums of filler music once sold to film and TV production companies. The saxophone track might probably have been used for some putative ITV comedy programme, such as ‘Whoops, Sailor, Some Neighbours Do Have ‘em’. The first track, with the piano and accordion, also reminds me of a musical interlude from ‘Workers’ Playtime’.

Sorry to be negative, but if you think ‘the tunes are awesome’, then you’ve never been truly awestruck or haven’t actually listened to some of the ‘greats’ of Irish music.

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"….would love to hear your thoughts……"
I thought this music was terrible. Sorry.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Note to self: Never post anything I record to this website….

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I think the OP just made a wee mistake. His music is for a particular commercial purpose and it’s pretty unrelated to the session music we discuss here. Good luck with your recordings John but this is probably the wrong place to look for opinions.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Al - if you record anything like that, please don’t. If you record something good, however, I’m sure we’d love to hear it.

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As someone who has been deeply rooted in the Irish dance and musical community for over a decade, all I can say is that I am sorry I ever shared my music with any of you.

What makes sessions so brilliant is the sharing of ideas and concepts that help shape the nature of the music. It’s not the written notes, but the mutual sharing of ideas that makes the session so amazing. Here, I expected that culture would be reflected as well, but it certainly is not. It’s much easier to hide behind a computer screen and debase someone else’s work when you’re not sitting in a circle playing across from them.

I honestly didn’t expect everybody to like what I’ve made; but neither did I expect to be lambasted the way you have. For a community proporting to be so respectful of Irish culture, your responses here could not possibly be less so.

The bodhran, accordion, even the fiddle - these are not truly trad instruments. They were things introduced in a community open to sharing and new ideas.

I am very disappointed to have been so disillusioned as to think this community might actually reflect the values of the musical tradition it embraces, and wish you all the best in your discovery of what it means to truly be Irish.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Awe come off it. What you need is a bit of humility. You can’t come here with your daft Jazzy nonsence and proclaim you think your tunes are "awesome" without expecting some actual truth.

As I said, it’s a shame that seem completely uninterested Irish diddley music.

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"It’s much easier to hide behind a computer screen and debase someone else’s work when you’re not sitting in a circle playing across from them."
Spot on!

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

This has got to be one of the best trolls i’ve ever seen on this site.

This can’t be real, can it?

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

llig….
Well said. (Though I dislike your use of ‘diddley’!)

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I’m not debasing the work, it’s the "work" that debases the tradition

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I’m sorry you were disappointed, diddledummusic. Now go look up "disillusioned" and use it correctly next time. Oh, and the word you’re groping for is "purporting", not "proporting".

Not only is your music crap, your writing isn’t too hot either.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

He asked for opinions on his music and you let him have it and it was rough and over the top but he asked..But will someone tell all the f(ckin english teachers here and there are loads that if you understand what is being written it is not neccessary to correct it. It is elitism of the highest order and has no place in a forum where there is only one neccessity..to love the tunes.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Oh yeah diddlydummusic. The very best of luck with your music and your tunes. I have met some contributors here in the flesh and they cant actually play a tune at all but just sit in with the gang and bluff.

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@ Jon Kiparsky..Could you explain in your best literary English why you would tell a person that their music is crap.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

because it is crap

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and they asked

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I think Fergal covered the neccessities in the first reply. I also am completely uninterested in "diddley" music.

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I’ll take this one, Tabs… some people’s points would be made more effectively by simply ignoring the thread all together, but when they are so inclined to make such scathing comments, it ends up saying more about them than it does about the topic of the thread.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well taken Jack.

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It is beyond scathing when two contributors feel the need to describe someones work and music as crap.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

it is beyond scathing when posters

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separate

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their posts.

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I had another listen and its not crap.Theres at least one tune there I could imagine At the Racket playing and then yer man Kiparsky would probably think it was a great tune.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

you’re still at it big_tab.

Use the enter key on your keyboard.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Another f(ckin schoolteacher.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

๐Ÿ˜€ you are so easy to wind up, jog on

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I listened to the samples and it sounds exactly like the canned music used by many of today’s step dance schools. Which may explain why dancers from those schools so often have trouble dancing to or even recognizing the stale, dusty old Irish traditional tunes that fuel most sessions. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Personally, I think it’s great that at only a scant 10 years in, John is putting himself and his tunes out there. Might not be everyone’s cuppa tea, but his music clearly pays its dues to the dance-school/feis-swingy-accordion trend, and it makes him happy.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

He wrote the tunes..we only get a sample but some of them sound as if they would be grand on the banjo.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

big_tab - when communicating in a written medium, following the simple rules of English grammar is an important sign of respect for your reader. It shows, among other things, that you care enough about what you say to say it well, and that you care enough about your reader to say it in a way that’s easy to read, and it shows that you respect the medium in which you’re communicating. Rather, failing to make that effort shows a pronounced disrespect for all of the above. It’s rather like playing a tune out of time and out of tune - it shows disrespect for the listener, for the tune, and for the music.

In the present case, we have someone who’s using words he clearly doesn’t know. I think that communication is improved when people speak clearly, and it’s impossible to speak clearly when you pick words because you heard them somewhere and think they sound good, rather than for the normal reason, that they express properly the idea that you want to get across.

Now, why do I answer someone’s question about their music? As usual, Michael beat me to the punch: because they asked.

Any other questions?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John, he didn’t ask you specifically and he obviously wasn’t interested in what people thought who consider his music to be "crap." Why not just pass over this thread and say nothing if you have such a distain for his music?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Sorry… I meant "Jon."

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

You also meant "disdain", but who’s counting?

If he meant "Please tell me what you think just in the case that you like it, otherwise please keep it to yourself" then why didn’t he say so?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Do people really need to spell it out to keep you mannerly. Jon?

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I wonder if people here would respond differently if John-Allen was one of the neighbor kids.

In today’s networld, of course, he *is* our neighbor.

At worst, what he’s learning here is to not take criticism personally or too seriously. And that session musicians typically don’t have a clue or care about the sort of music that step dance schools and competitions favor these days.

When the music and the dance grow apart, it’s silly to judge one by the other’s standards. And if you don’t like that approach to the music, then make it a priority to play for dancers, especially to provide live music for your local step dance school.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well, it would be nice if people said what they actually meant. If he’s just playing at wanting feedback, he should go somewhere else. I’m sure his CD would get great reviews at "celticnewage.com" or some such site - why bring this tripe here?
And why does the poor deluded simpleton have to try to tell us he’s been playing at sessions? If he’d ever been to a session, he’d have known exactly what he’d get by telling actual players of the music that this was "music for dancing".
So, he’s offended. Big deal - I listened, it was awful, he knows it know. What’s the bother?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

The issue here, it seems, is that the OP thinks his tunes are awesome, and he enjoys them so much that he hopes you enjoy them, too. (This is called vanity).

Well, from what I’ve heard, the tunes aren’t awesome. Maybe one of the tunes is awesome, (rhetorically, that is) but I wasn’t driven to learn any of them from what I heard.

I wish John-Allen Smith all the best - but it’s not likely that I’ll share in his enthusiasm for his work, anymore that he will share in mine for mine. (No doubt he’s younger than I am, and with luck, his tunes will be seen as awesome when he gets to my ripened age).

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

If you listened and didn’t like it you can always just go on to the next topic. If you felt he deserved constructive criticism that would be understandable, but just condemning his music as "crap" only says more about you than it does about his music and makes me wonder if you don’t just like seeing your own negative bile in print.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John,

IMO, your music it was mostly successful in fulfilling your stated intention, for step dancers. Production was very clean and clear. Nice melodies on a couple of the tunes.
There was one tune in the middle that had some odd rhythmic things going on that I think would be distracting to dancers.

Why all this fussing and fighting over your music? I wanna know.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jack, I write about music from time to time. I don’t review performers I don’t like, if I can help it, because it requires a lot of time spent listening to something that I don’t like to begin with. To explain why that sh*te was dreck would require that I listen to those three minutes of 30-second samples repeatedly, and that’s not something I’m willing to do. Life’s too short. If I’d heard any redeeming features in there, I would have mentioned them. Nary a one, though.
What about you? Rather than kvelling on about whether I overstepped some bounds, maybe you could spend a few lines telling us a little something about what I missed in the music. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong. But telling me about why I’m wrong to respond to the guy isn’t really making your case very well, whatever it might be.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jon, as I said, if you don’t care for the man’s music, why say anything at all unless you think it merits constructive criticism? I think some people are offering just that and I have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said, but I’m not about to condemn the man’s music using derogatory and unnecessary insults. Why are you compelled to do that?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

All the haters in this forum need to spend one week in John-Allen’s dance school for every nasty post they post.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Looks like six to one against, Jack, up until the original poster compounded his error by whining about the feedback he asked for, leaving out bogman’s creatively non-committal "it’s crap but I’m not saying so" reply. Jim’s the only one who said anything even remotely positive, and what he said was "I like the bits that aren’t Irish music".

After that, we have big_tab saying he thought one of the tunes didn’t sound too bad. That’s the only remotely positive comment here.

So apparently I’m not alone here. Again, if you have something to say, go on, nobody’s stopping you, and there’s plenty of room to chime in with some upside to this nonsense being foisted off as dance music. You’d be a lonely voice, but sometimes it takes a brave man to say what nobody else is saying. Be that brave man, Jack. If there’s anything good to be said about the music, say it. I mean anything good, not just "nice effort" or "it’s not bad for what it is" but something actually not crap about it.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Nice Argumentum ad Populum, Jon, but it changes nothing regarding my point.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought your point was that there was something in that wash of white noise that deserved some attention, something noteworthy or original or even not entirely bad about it. Apparently not, it seems your point was that it was crap, but you’re too polite to say so?

Thanks for clearing that up. I’m not sure why that was worth all this fuss, but I’m glad to see we’re in agreement. It is in fact crap, and you are indeed too polite to say so. There, we agree, right?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well, I’m kind of a Pollyanna, so here’s my effort: Nice production values, but it doesn’t sound very Irish to me—although I have only been learning the tunes for about ten years now, and didn’t grow up with the music, so maybe I’m not too qualified to judge that aspect.

Still, I wonder if the John-Allen hasn’t missed an essential quality of Irish traditional music—its elegant simplicity. All you need to make powerful music is a single fiddle, or tinwhistle. Bastardizing it with other styles and adding more stuff to the essential melody is not an improvement. It’s just more show biz. (Which field, btw, requires a thick skin. I think he is learning that now.)

And I have to wonder how someone with a relatively low member number- could expect any other sort of reception for his compositions on this site. Must not have been paying much attention, before this. It has happened often enough, with self-promoting posts by people who have not contributed to any other discussions here.

Okay, maybe I’m not such a Pollyanna, after all.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

This is beginning to remind me, again, of a Chinese proverb: "When the bulls fight in the marsh, it is the frogs who pay."

๐Ÿ˜Ž

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Jon writes: "I thought your point was that there was something in that wash of white noise that deserved some attention, something noteworthy or original or even not entirely bad about it."

No, my point is that your condemnation of it and caustic insults serve no purpose here.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Oops, coupla boo-boos in there (delete the first "the" in the second para, and the stray hypen in the third). Everybody needs an editor. (Speaking of which—Jon, I think that was "kvetching" you wanted, a ways back, not "kvelling.")

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

So now I’m a frog. Thanks, Will. ๐Ÿ˜›

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I suppose you’re right, although you seem to be finding them amusing. If you didn’t, why would you keep dragging this out?

I suppose I’d better come up with another:

Haven’t you’ve noticed that each of your posts is just another opportunity for me to lambaste that turgid, shuffling twaddle that started all of this off? I assumed that was why you were still posting about this!

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Kvelling I said, and kvelling I meant. It’s a little like "kvetching" only with a bit more of the whining, and a bit more protracted.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John, most of us are frogs. Takes only two bulls to stir up the marsh. ๐Ÿ™‚

"HARK!" says the frog. "What you call ‘crap’ others refer to as feis music." Here’s the sort of feis music that step dance schools and competitions seem to thrive on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGo_txXkOV0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERiZ5Fm3JCY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W8niSfvV88&feature=related


"RRRRRRBBBTTTTT!" says the frog. "I don’t this sort of feis music, either, but I don’t judge it on its suitability or lack thereof for session playing."

So one of my session mates pulled up the OP link and played John-Allen’s samples. Her daughter, a step dancer, came into the room and said, "OMG, that sounds like feis music, *why* are you listening to that? You *never* want to go to a feis and have to listen to that all day! It gives you nightmares!โ€

In short, John-Allen appears to have composed some apt *feis* music and mistakenly posted it on a *session* music site.

Can we let it rest, now?

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I see. Well, I never heard it used that way, but who am I to argue with Merriam and Webster?
Okay, he’s kvetching. Your point?

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Glass houses, I guess.

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Oy gewalt.

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๐Ÿ™‚

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Isn’t that usually spelled "oy gevalt" ?

๐Ÿ˜Ž

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Depends which old country your grandparents came from, I guess. ๐Ÿ™‚

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Well in that case, then for me it would be "Feck me fer a amadan!"

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This is the best thread in ages! It’s like the good old days again.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well I guess it is a bit late to comment on this thread and it appears diddledummusic has run away anyway but he asked for opinions so I thought I would offer mine. I don’t like it.

It doesn’t mean the cd is not well put together. It may be but the music is not to my taste and there is little I heard in it that I would recognise as an actual tune, new or otherwise. It is not within the genre of Traditional Irish Music but I am sure that there are dancers out there who would like it.

Dancers are strange folk after all.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Neat summary, NCFA. I agree completely.

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Jon tells us he writesabout music and that he expects En glish to be written to a high standard to respect the music. That is one of the main problems with this forum. The likes of Jon think that they can correct our English because they are highly educated. Education,of course ,cannot disguise the element of ignorance that can tell a man who has worked to make a cd and then ,excitedly, wishes to share it with us and see if we like it,that his work is crap.The argument that eveyone else was negative about the music is irrelevant because it only means that the usual pirrhanas have done their work here and have probably run off another musician .

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@Jon K on the importance of gramar.

All fine if you are talking about formal letter writing, producing reports for work college etc. But on an internet forum, really?

Personally I look on forums such as this as places where conversations take place. I see no requirement for formal english as long as the meaning is clear.

Should everyone down the pub be required to speak in the "queen’s english"?

On the OPs music. It wasn’t bad for what it was. Sounded to me like a fusion between jazz and some kind of continental european music. I could detect very little in common with Irish music and would never have guessed that the composer/musician considered their music to be based on Irish trad.

Not my cup of tea, not particularly the type of music this forum focuses on, some bad lapses in taste (drum machines), but not so bad in itself. Good luck with it.

- Chris

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Ah. I’ve been wondering where all this was coming from. Diddums has never actually heard any Irish music, has he? I wonder if it’s the fault of whoever is responsible for teaching at the Carickethan School of Irish Step Dancing in Poway, California. Maybe he thinks that what he’s been fed *is* Irish music. Not that I know what they feed their students, of course …

[And in case anybody thinks I’m being anti-yank prejudiced, I’m not - as I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t think this music can be held by boundaries any more, if it ever could. I’ve only dug into this because it sounded *so* foreign to any normal concept of Irish music that i was curious as to what nationality Diddums might be. I’m kind of surprised to find he’s a yank, as I thought they had more sense. Then again, he’s a Californian, which may be a whole different ballgame. ๐Ÿ™‚]

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

My point being, I suppose, that I couldn’t square the Irish dancers that I know with this sort of music. They just wouldn’t recognise it.

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Diddums has never actually heard any Irish music, has he? I’m not sure really. What’s for sure though, as I said first, is that he’s not in the least bit interested in it.

You could blame the Carickethan School of Irish Step Dancing in Poway, California, but that lets Diddums off the hook. He should take more responsibility. If he’s gonna make a CD, the very least he should do is a bit of research. He’s arrogant and lazy. And he asked for feedback and he deserves everthing he’s got.

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At first I thought, go easy, the lads just come to the wrong place. Unfortunately the OP’s reply to criticism gave him away. "As someone who has been deeply rooted in the Irish dance and musical community for over a decade". ”Deeply rooted" and "decade" seriously contradict each other.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

The OP said:
"All of the tunes I wrote myself" and "I think the tunes are awesome"
That says it all really !

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

My goodness this has been a painful post to read. I have to admit I do feel a bit of pity when a giddy, yet naive musician wanders into Mustardville eager to show their musical accomplishments only to be told they, in no uncertain terms, suck @ss. Although the young man foolishly and brashly expected rave reviews, the harsh replies reminded me of reality TV, where the demoralization and humiliation of another human being are viewed as sport, safely and risk free, from the comfort of our own sofas.

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Did you like it then, JNE?

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™

I’d say spot
on,
Jusa …
but it’s so difficult to type
as I’m

sinking into the sofa.

ethical blend, there’s no lift. It is like the canned music dancers use all too often.
Johnny Connolly though. He plays dance music.

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I don’t think he’s naive at all, JNE, since his website has a ‘shop online’ function where the album can be purchased for โ‚ฌ15.99. Simply put, he was touting for more custom.

I can assure you that if he’d sent the album to any of the magazines covering Irish music, he’d have been given a far rougher time than he’s experienced here.

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Ethical, In the context of Irish music as I know it - no, I didn’t care for it. But I ain’t no dancer either (unless Earth, Wind and Fire is on the stereo).

My point is this could have actually turned into a nice debate about the continued divergence of Irish dance music and Irish session music. Will Harmon tried to lead it in that direction, but it got swamped by other posts.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

MacCruiskeen - I meant naive in the sense that he thought session players would embrace his effort - and Naive in his notion OF Irish traditional music.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

the Johnny Connolly video is superb, thanks for posting it Random

- chris

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Yeah, that’s the real shame here:

The idea that the music needs to dressed up and ‘feised’ into ‘this’ in order to be danced to.

It’s fine the way it is, just dance to it, that’s what it’s there for.

At our band’s gig Saturday night the pub also had a local dance school in. The girls danced a little bit to our jigs and reels, but hen they also danced to their own weird souped up feis-style prerecorded stuff on our breaks. Some of it was nice, but most of it was all wacked out with synthesizers and whatnot.

I find sean nos and set dancing to be much more organic and representative of the tradition at large. It’s sad to say that the girls with the curls, the step dancers, seem to be the ones most divorced from the music. It’s no fault of their own, these wee kids, or the musicians who lobby and make themselves available to them, it’s just a convention that seems to have seeped into step dancing at large and it appears to be maintained by those in charge of step dancing.

Those are just my opinions, your results may vary, insert legal disclaimer here, blah blah blah, yackety shmackety.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

In the last fifteen to twenty years, recording, duplication, and promotion of music have gotten steadily easier and cheaper, but skill and flair for performing and composing music have remained difficult to acquire. In 1990, putting out a CD was something only a record label or a serious independent band would undertake, and it was serious business. Today, you can record an album on a computer you have at home already with a decent microphone that you get for under $500, edit it with free software, and press it to CD for about the cost of a month’s rent.
It shouldn’t be any surprise that the world is full of recordings by people cursed with an exaggerated estimation of their own abilities.
What do you do, then, when someone presses their work into your hands and says "tell me what you think about this"?
My answer is simple: I’ll answer the question. What else can you do?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Exactly SWFL - our poor poster here with his new CD is part of that divergent culture. His new CD would probably be well received by the Girls with Curls crowd. However, not the Jigs with Lligs crowd. Now he knows… ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

OK, JNE. But my point would be that I know Irish dancers, and I’ve heard plenty of playing for Irish dancers and, whilst there may be subtleties of divergence between the music for Irish dancing and music for Irish sessions, they’re really not that great. Not that it wouldn’t be nice to have a discussion about them …

… but this ain’t music that would fit with any Irish dancing that I know of. It must be a separate Californian strain.

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Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Understood Ethical. My niece dances in California and she hasn’t competed to anything that sounds like our young fella’s CD either. I though somebody above nailed it pretty good when he/she said it sounded vaguely Continental. It reminded me of the sound track to Pixar’s Ratatouille cartoon with the French Rat who is also a gourmet chef.

Be that as it may, there is a way to let a brother down easy without saying he is crap. Jon your comments are akin to saying "damn she’s ugly!" when a stranger introduces himself and his girlfriend to you. Three is a way to deliver a valid opinion with sounding like Simon Cowell with a migrane.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"There is a way.." not three.. sorry

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

without sound like… sorry

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Girls with curls, jigs with Llig, there’s a Dr. Seuss book in all of this somewhere.

Ethical, that’s just it, you’re pointing out the exact problem. Good trad music played well works just fine for step dancing. Why they think they need prerecorded tracks with synthesizers and all that jazz, I really don’t know. It’s become quite standard in the step dance world though.

Not so (thankfully!) for set and sean nos dancers.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Yes, but what if he says " My girlfriend is awesome I hope you enjoy her too", when she’s not what you recognise as a woman?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

cross post….

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Really Jusa? Quit yer gloating then. Every time I see curls and sequins I just know there’s got to be some accordion track with a drum machine and keyboard in tow. ๐Ÿ˜›

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Bogman, I’m not touching that post with a ten foot pole.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jusa - any musician who can’t tell the difference between his product and his girlfriend will have a lot of unsold product and no girlfriend.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Don’t you mind it, JNE. I know you were just asking for a bit of civility in the face of naivete. I think it’s called for as well.

What I wonder is, why does the posting of a naive walk-on lead to the mustard boarders bickering needlessly amongst themselves? I don’t come around nearly as much as I did, but whenever I do, I am reminded why my interest in the board (not the music) has waned.

๐Ÿ™

Once all the naivete has been purged the result is a panel of experts.

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Thanks a million for posting that Johnny Connolly link! What a treat! ๐Ÿ˜€

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Yeah - Thank’s on Johnny Connolly link - Mighty !

Now that’s how ITM should Run like —

” It dont mean a thing, if it aint got that - Swing ”

jim,,, : )

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

LOL - some good replies up there boys. Never the less, Jon K I think you were a bit harsh on our accordion playing neophyte. With your extensive vocabulary and command of the language, I’m certain you could have guided the young man tactfully back to reality without comparing his work to a pile of poo.

And no, I won’t take off my rose-tinted glasses that let me view the world in soft and pleasant hues. Group hug anyone?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

News Flash!!!
John Allen Smith’s second album is due out early Dec!

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I am always amazed at just what a lot of the champion dancers like dancing to… I think most of them care more about the speed and a good pulse than what the music actually sounds like. Many of the performances I have seen with canned music have them dancing to Enya or Loreena McKennitt, because the audience will think it sounds "celtic".

So, for what it’s worth, I’m sure the OP’s album will fit the bill, as far as a lot of dance schools are concerned.

But that doesn’t mean I like it, or wish that the dance schools wouldn’t choose something better.

But what I really want to know is how you can have a website that is "Powered 100% by Wind Energy"…? Unless it lives in a server farm that is somehow only powered by wind energy with big storage batteries (I’d hate to have my server running there on a calm day!), the power grid is exactly that, a grid, which shares energy across huge regions, from numerous sources. ๐Ÿ˜

Tangential champion dancer/new tunes/๐Ÿ™‚/Riverdance=Ice interlude

It dawned on me, reading various comments regarding the "Brave New World" of stepdancing, it was inevitable the progeny of Riverdance was destined to spawn on the ice. I never imagined it would happen. But as YouTube is my witness;
Belbin Agosto "Riverdance on Ice"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMmcbDA7ptc

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

You know, I have been thinking something a Accordion friend
( The man who wrote - Road to Ballymac ) - No Name Dropping - lol..
Play’s at all the festival dancing Around Co, Antrim..
He said the Girl’s that do that Irish festival dancing, have
to do Slip-jig’s, Single jig’s, Reel’s, Hornpipe’s, etc, for
Competition Dancing,,, When they do there own thing,, they Plague him for Riverdance material- They will except Tam Linn and The Wing Comander, he said.
So maybe ‘diddledummusic’ - Is the kinda stuff there after,
Maybe in a short time Mr. diddledummusic will stand to make a Fortune ??
jim,,,

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jim, I think about that every time one of my session mates talks about inviting another professional musician or rising star to our session. You never know what will happen, whether it will turn into a long term friendship or just a one off passing phase of adrenaline.
You’re probably right though, John Allen will land on his feet whether or not the mustard buys his compact disc.

Posted by .

FYI ~ those girls with curls … they read these threads. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Posted by .

not saying every last girl, but enough to let their friends know when something looks interesting.

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I think the girls-with-curls constitute a different audience all together, kind of like the audience for Celtic Rock is different than the audience for Irish trad. I was once told by a band mate, who was trying to convince us to go the CR route, that, "Nobody is interested in Irish trad unless it has electric bass and drums." I told him we were playing to different audiences, and he left to put together a very successful, but musically woeful, CR band. I’m obviously in the ‘nobody’ who’s interested in Irish trad sans electric bass and drums I guess, and his music doesn’t interest me in the slightest, but he does have a strong following for his CR band. So perhaps most of our girls-with-curls are listening for something else… something different than what the mustard boarders are into.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Music for dancers to learn to has become a world unto itself. The tunes get played at very specific paces which don’t necessarily match what you hear at a normal ceilidhe or session. These different paces give the whole affair a different feel, which can sound very un-Irish. However, it can be done.
When I was a step dance student a few years ago, I had a CD that featured Billy McComisky that had all the tunes at the learning paces, but still made it sound like real Irish music. That CD, however, was the exception.
(And yes, I was in an adult step dance class when I was in my late 40’s, pudgy old grandpa that I am!)
Our Mr. Smith is not a bad musician, only working in a world far different than the world of sessions. When he asks for criticism, he must take what he gets, but what I regret is so often around here, the criticism crosses the line into cruelty.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Ahh, answered my own question about the "Powered 100% By Wind Energy"… They’re buying "Renewable Energy Certificates"… So it’s a bit misleading, albeit somewhat admirable…

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

A bit of negativity, yeah. But a lot of hubris on the op, and a complete lack of research into what kind of site session.org is…harsh but he asked for it.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

He didn’t ask for cruelty, you are only making excuses for it. A bigger man would just pass on commenting.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I think Will said it right "In short, John-Allen appears to have composed some apt *feis* music and mistakenly posted it on a *session* music site." I don’t think there is much more that needs to be said unless one wants to talk about the musical content itself. So, I’ll try:

I don’t spend lots of time at Girls with Curls events though I have some friends that have kids involved. But those friends moved their kids from one group to another locally and if I understood the reason correctly it was because the first group used music like that of the OP and the second used collections of traditional tunes and taught more traditional things about the dance. So, I conclude that not all those groups are the same. Clearly the OP is aiming at the kind of group my friends left. OK, fair play. I don’t particularly care for his music, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. The music is designed to accompany dancing. As such it may not stand alone very well. So, I may have a wrong impression of it. But what concerns me about the music is that, aside from instrumentation it is sort of…well trite. It doesn’t take things into truly new places, but rather uses a set of cliches from a different repertoire that session music. So, my concern is not that it isn’t session music, but rather that to my ears it has nothing to say. But then I have that trouble with lots of music that is around today including almost all of the newagey stuff. Maybe it is just me.

But you asked and there you are. Nice production, nice orchestration, but nothing to say.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

cboody —


Now that’s a Very Good Answer - jim,,,

Op

Wow…. ๐Ÿ™‚ I can’t believe the storm I created here - had no idea that things would go in this direction…

When I posted the link to something I’ve worked on for over 2 years, my hope was that I would be able to consult with fellow musicians and solicit their advice so that I might be able to better my music.

I was disappointed, not by the the fact that some of you don’t like what I have created, but by the complete lack of feedback on how I can make it better. Simply deeming it crap without offering any advice on how to make it better by your standards is what disappointed me. I am open to criticism and welcome it, but just launching insult and attack without substance I did not expect or appreciate.

I realize that there are some fundamental differences between Irish dance music and trad session music. The tempos for Reels/Slip Jigs/Hornpipes must be within 1pt of 113bpm, and jigs within 1 pt of 73bpm. I find jigs to be excruciatingly painful to play at that tempo…I can understand how you might then find them excruciating to listen to also.

Please forgive my naivety, I have been a member of this site for years, but until recently hadn’t realized there was a forum here at all. I only ever came on to browse the catalogue of tunes!

I honestly have gotten a good laugh out of some of the dialogue here on the post…have never heard Irish dancers referred to as "Girls with Curls" before.

To the poster who looked up my location and dancing school…kind of creepy…lol…but nonetheless I danced with Carrickethan in California about 7-8 years ago. I am a professional Irish dancer now, just got out of a dancing show and I’m now living in Cork, Ireland, where I am at seisiuns regularly.

I am afraid to even add another ounce of ammunition to this post, but I’m going to post a link here to another recording which is of a tune I wrote and recorded on this CD. It has less of the "show biz" styling and hope you might offer *advice* on this or how I might make my music better down the line…I did not include it on the video preview because it doesn’t have the show-biz stuff that dancers want, but I did put it on the CD because I liked it…I hope you won’t be quite as repulsed by this…. here we go:


http://db.tt/OMZcAd8

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"complete lack of feedback"
develop an interest in Irish music

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I didn’t have to go that far to "look up" your location and dancing school - you put it in your bio. On this site.

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

And specifically after hearing that clip, develop an interest in listening to Irish music.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

And heck, while you are at it, you could do worse than developing an interest in dancing to Irish music too

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

So what is wrong with that tune then llig? Could you offer any pointers or anything constructive to go with everything else you’ve so generously offered to this point?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

It doesn’t sound at all like Irish music. I’m no being facetious, I really am trying to help. There is nothing you can do about this other than listen yourself. You can’t be told why, you have to hear it for yourself

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I think the first thing you need to do is throw that Casio thing in a lake, and find some real musicians with real instruments to play your tunes.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

As I mentioned in my late-night skirmish with the spectral one, the reason there wasn’t any feedback was because there is nothing that you could do to what I heard there that would bring it even vaguely closer to the music that I play at sessions and at dances. It’s like playing some koto music for Quincy Jones and asking him how he could make it more like Michael Jackson - there’s just nothing to be done. The difference, of course, is that I’m willing to believe that if I listened long enough I’d hear something of interest in some koto music, I don’t for a minute believe that about what you offered up.

For a few years, I booked music in a coffee shop, and a few years after that I was involved in a folk music label. In both of those positions, I had to listen to a lot of unsolicited demos, and I learned that there’s some music that’s worth working with and developing, and there’s some that isn’t. I’m sorry to tell you that yours is in the latter category. There’s nothing that I could say about it or do to it to make it any better than it is now, and it’s no good now. "Throw it in the lake and start over" would be as close as I could come. "Learn to play Irish music" would be on the list as well. "Don’t quit your day job" would also come up. "Don’t use the constraints of the form as an excuse for suck", you might hear that come out of me - none of that is constructive, however. It all goes to the same thing: this music - not this musician, but this music - is hopeless.
How that’s any different from "it’s crap" I don’t know, but there you are. There’s more of it, anyway.

Okay, maybe this will help: takt the last point. You say there are strict tempo requirements. Fine, take that as a given. Now go home and internalize those tempos, get 73 bpm in your head, and play jigs at 73 bpm until you start hearing some music worth playing. Then you might be able to make a record worth hearing.

"I have never heard Irish dancers referred to as "Girls with Curls" before"

Now I KNOW you’ve never been to a session in your life. I think that tag appears in the Book of Kells…

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

… or, as we know it, "The Book of Curls" …

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

btw, llig, I absolutely love those old clips. Seen ‘em before, but you can never get enough of that stuff.

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I’d bet a million quid that diddledummusic ain’t seen ‘em

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

110 + posts to this thread and I still question the sincerity of the OP. Troll?

Can’t imagine anyone would post a link to that music, here, and be serious about it.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

you could well be right jimtowat. Especially with his website being powered 100% by wind

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Not a troll, unless you think the poster either set up an account here a few years ago with this in mind, or set up that web site and recorded those clips in order to troll here.

No, he’s sincere all right. Not that that sincerity is exculpatory in this case.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I’d like to think it’s a wind up though. Much better to think of somebody being very clever rather than very stupid

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

That’s very charitable of you llig.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

i think it is a wind up too llig, too many boxes have been ticked

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Far be it for me to everโ€”everโ€”want to inject sanity into a discussion. Still …

Feis music is played for the ears of young people. Very, very, young people, most of them. Those ears are two (or three) generations removed from the mostly white-hair bristling ears which hang around pub sessions. Feis dancers love sparkly fairy statuettes. They live on sugar. They like bright pink.

For those here who are oh, so valiantly slagging the feis music maker, hereโ€™s a thought: bring your favorite Tommy Peoples recording into a room of seven-year-olds. Play it for them, maintaining earnest, watery eye contact, then explain the deep, deep humanness of the playing, the homey, scratchy nuances you and you alone have detected which, lucky for those kids, you are now sharing. The form their, er, gratitude to you will take will be … puzzzzzzzling …

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"…. and wish you all the best in your discovery of what it means to truly be Irish"

- But you are American.

Am I the first to comment on this?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Thanks for that, NEW Pure Dropยฎ Ear Canal Oil, this underlines the last point I made.

Regardless of what people think of the OP and his music, the session dot bore discussion forum has once again proven itself as being more of a snake pit than a place to seek advice or feedback. There are good posts within the thread that address the OP in ways that might be helpful, but too many are just session dot bore regulars puffing out the feathers and demonstrating how all-knowing and superior they are when it comes to Irish trad. But since they seem to so enjoy seeing their bile in print and have no worries that any responsible moderation exists on this discussion forum to quell their posturing, I suppose readers and contributers will have to continue putting up with their crap.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Yes, fair play, they probably do prefer unicorns and rainbows.

…and so, let’s have their musical preference take some of the blame off the musicians on the whole ‘dance divorced from the music’ thing, eh? ๐Ÿ˜‰

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

LOL Pure Drop!

I was playing for a dance school recital one time, and had a teenage girl (with curls) come up and ask us why we played "that music". The answer was "because we love it". You could see her face curl up in a quizzical fashion, as if she was trying to fathom the very idea. I think her final thought was that we were all just weird old kooks, which was the only way she could reconcile our answer in her head.

In so many ways, the dance and the music have grown apart. It doesn’t help that dance schools feel pressured to create champion dancers, because that is what makes a school successful in attracting new dancers. The kids are pushed pretty hard in a lot of situations. I’ve seen feis dancers publicly admonished by parents for making a mistake, and end up in tears. It’s a competitive sport for a lot of the girls, the same way that Little League baseball would be, for boys. It seems that very little of it comes from a love for the dance, the music, or the culture. (There are exceptions to that, of course, and it’s quite refreshing to play for dancers that love the music). When there isn’t a love for the music, the schools start dancing to a lot of music that isn’t traditional, which further widens the divide between the music and the dancing (and step dancing, in particular).

And just out of curiosity, diddledummusic, I am wondering what is involved in being a "professional Irish dancer" in Cork? Is this for a traveling show? Or is there actually enough work available around Cork to make a living doing Irish dance?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Phantom,

How exactly do you think we might "address the OP in ways that might be helpful" when his music is so far wide of the mark?

We could say "That’s very nice, but you need to change the instrumentation, the dynamics, the rythm and the melody" That might be polite and ‘helpful’, but at the end of the day it is still telling the guy his music is pants.

As far as I can see the OP came in here asking for a slagging. If he had a quarter of the experience of ITM that he claims, he would have know that what he has been doing doesn’t belong here.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

He obviously didn’t "come here for slagging" and he made it quite clear. What DID happen is that the session dot bore regulars saw it as an opportunity to posture themselves as all-knowing super trad experts and see more of their insults published instead of just going on to the next topic. As for the contributions to this thread that might be helpful to the OP, I think those are rather obvious as well.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jon Kiparsky kind of summarised the way things are here by stating to you Jack that you were one and everybody else had a different opinion. The scary part is that there are so many in agreement on many issues on this forum that there is a danger they might think they are right.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I agree with Phantom Button.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"He obviously didn’t "come here for slagging""

Maybe not but he came asking for people’s opinions, clearly just expecting praise for his awesome tunes. People just gave him what he asked for - their opinions.

Anyway, as has already been suggested, he came here touting for business.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Yes, Tabs… Argumentum ad Populum… Jon subscribes to this fallacy.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

NCFA, whatever reason he came here still is no excuse for the crap that was posted. He asked for opinions, yes, but is it possible to do that honestly without resorting to ad hominem? I think some of the contributors demonstrated it is indeed possible, but others demonstrated something entirely different about themselves.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Sure, lot’s of things were demonstrated in this thread, not the least of which is the lack of civility at this site, which has gotten worse since I first walked on about a year ago.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

diddledummusic

I really like that Composition you have composed
there —
http://db.tt/OMZcAd8

You said -

< It has less of the "show biz" styling > By Far..

You also said -
<and hope you might offer *advice* >

My advice is,,, to use this as a Template for Composing ITM -
Listen to Alot of Session music around Cork area where you say you are now Living.
But dont Throw away your Modern "show biz" styling and Make Money from Girl’s with Curl’s etc..

** Very rarely is much money made in ITM,,, And I, can asure you of that one.

Plus can I have a go at Learning that tune you composed - http://db.tt/OMZcAd8...
It May not be very fancy playing but I’d like to try it in an Older style — And put on Youtube
would this be Ok…

Drop Me an Email here in thesession with your email address, and I’ll send you stuff which Might help!
Failing that come up to Larne, County Antrim and we can go over some of the Difference’s etc..

jim,,,

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Diddledummusic, The vibe I get from your samples is movie soundtrack-the first cut makes me think of the French Quarter in New Orleans. I think the stuff is a bit woozy and reverby for the precision rhythms of Irish dancing; but I have heard some really out-there recordings some dance groups use, and figured it was because they really like to be "different" and want music that has some modern appeal for the kids. So good luck! You sure generated a lot of discussion! This crowd is old school.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John-Allen, thanks for posting your less show-biz clip. It shows the skills you do have and helps clarify what’s missing in your playing.

First off, your twiddly bits throw you off the rhythm a bit. That’s a no-no for this music, whether or not people are dancing to it. So you have some woodshedding still to do to get your cuts, rolls, triplets, and other articulations up to snuff. Spend some more time listening to the nitty gritty details of good Irish accordion players.

And I don’t hear much lift or nyah in there, either. Instead of playing the notes, play phrases, play the story of the tune. Create a sense of momentum that carries through the tune.

Best perhaps to get yourself a mentor there in Cork who can help you learn to really listen to this music. Good luck!


(Is it just me, or is it weird that Jack wades in here to criticize Jon for offering nothing substantive and calling the OP’s efforts "crap," but Jack himself offers nothing substantive and is now calling Jon’s efforts "crap"…? Heh, I actually agree with the point that just calling it crap is unhelpful, unnecessary, and rude. But I don’t understand why anyone so offended by the bile would so eagerly go slinging it themselves.)

Posted .

Re: stirring up the marsh

Uh-oh, here they come. Run, frogs, run!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well, depending on how you look at it, Will and Jack just agreed on something! ๐Ÿ˜‰

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I’ve been in agreement with Jack’s thoughts on this through the whole thread (we must be forming a new cabal…watch out!). ๐Ÿ™‚ And he was handling it pretty well up until he stooped to the same level as Jon.

As most of us have learned here before, if you appoint yourself Miss Manners, you’ll be held to that standard, yourself.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Cabal..Thats the word I wanted!๐Ÿ™‚

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

FWIW (usual disclaimers, I’m just learner myself) here’s some more feedback on the db.tt sample.

I think the backing piano is too loud in the mix—check out Charlie Lennon’s piano on the Tribute to Joe Cooley album. It stays well in the back, never competes with the melody.

Otherwise, I agree with Will Harmon’s comments about it, especially the "play phrases, not just notes" bit. (Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P26i_g_RjE4 , for one example.)


And I am looking forward to FIDDLE4’s version, because he is genuinely "steeped in the music." Although I wonder if it might turn out to sound a lot like Father Kelly’s (Rossmore Jetty) when he’s done….

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Will writes: "I don’t understand why anyone so offended by the bile would so eagerly go slinging it themselves."

Where have I done this, Will?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Irish Step dancing has moved pretty far away from it’s roots and the music reflects this, thumbs down.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jack, had the op come in with a bit more humility, I would have agreed with you. It sounds a bit unseemly to introduce one’s own work as "awesome," however. And although some of the slagging would have ensued regardless of how he introduced himself, a brief bit of research would have told him not to bother posting on the mustard board…civility being a relative thing here.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jack, you skipped over the part where I’m agreeing with you. ๐Ÿ™‚

I’m not gonna get into a tit for tat on this. You’ve complained here repeatedly about Jon’s use of the word "crap" and then you twice called others’ comments "crap." Re-read your own posts…it’s there.

["But since they seem to so enjoy seeing their bile in print and have no worries that any responsible moderation exists on this discussion forum to quell their posturing, I suppose readers and contributers will have to continue putting up with their crap."
and
"NCFA, whatever reason he came here still is no excuse for the crap that was posted."]


The point is, be the change that you want to see in the board. And don’t pick arguments just for the sake of arguing, or because you think I’m just a horrible person.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Let me try at commenting on the music. I’m glad you posted the second example because to me, taken with the first, it shows you have great facility with the surface materials of many styles. That is a blessing and a curse. Too much facility can keep you from moving beyond surface detail into the deeper aspects of whatever style you might be wanting to write in.

The best solution to this is to become more deeply involved with the styles you wish to write in. Forgive me for saying this, but dancing will not necessarily give you that deeper involvement. As a dancer you are involved with interpreting the rhythms and shapes of the melody, but you aren’t necessarily listening to the details. That’s, to me, part of why there are jig and reel competitions and not competitions based on interpreting a particular jig or reel. So Llig’s comment about listening more is a good one. Immersion will help.

To me your second example sounds sort of like a combination of surface cliches from ITM (sorry it is convenient), and Old Timey traditions. That said I suspect a fine player in either tradition could make it fit into either style. So, why didn’t your playing fit it in, at least for me? Probably because of the things Will said about the rhythm and the "ornaments" (let’s not have that discussion either). Perhaps the issue is with your technical skills and perhaps it is with your need for more listening. I really haven’t any idea which.

What I do think is that it takes plenty of moxie to put yourself out here as you have. And, for a young person you’ve got a good start on becoming a composer. Keep at it but try not to be too easily satisfied. If you do delve deeper and learn to be critical of your own work the results can be positive for you I’m sure.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Will.. There is a huge difference between saying someones posts are crap and saying someones music is crap.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Cross post with cboody who has thoughtful and considered thoughts on the OPs music which is the least any musician deserves after completing a recording of self composed tunes.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I am tending to agree with a lot Phantom Button has posted, and Jimmy B and cboody, and big_tab, and FIDDLE4. A more civil approach to things.
I was just talking to a friend about dance schools for his daughter, he is looking for one that focuses more on the traditional music, sean nos style and less competitive, and there are some schools in the area that are starting to lean in that direction, thank the Good Lord, as I think they are getting back to more of what Irish dance should be.
I also think big_tab has a good point about what is being called ‘crap.’ I myself think that Will is just not sure how to handle agreeing with Phantom Button on something! ๐Ÿ˜‰

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

big_tab, I disagree with you on this one, especially if you’re trying to persuade people to be more civil. Stooping to their level isn’t going to help.

And calling someone’s thoughts, beliefs, and values "crap" is just as counterproductive as calling their music "crap."

Look, I’ve tried to rudder this thread into calmer waters with my above posts (and Al is guilty of selective reading ๐Ÿ™‚ ), and I thought Jack was doing the same, but then he started calling people names ("session dot bores") and labeling their posts as "bile" and "crap." I don’t see how that’s, as Al puts it, a "more civil approach to things."

If we want the forum to be a friendlier, more civil place, let’s watch what we say ourselves, eh?

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Will, I think the tactics and egos of some of the contributers here is woefully boring and unnecessary hence I say, "session dot bore," and I also think the irresponsible moderation in this discussion forum cultivates a clique of self-proclaimed Irish trad experts who feel emboldened to bully anyone who doesn’t agree with their dogma, and these trad know-it-alls think they have the right to insult people who they have deemed are deserving of it. I think if there’s any ‘crap’ here it’s what they are compelled to do in places like this thread and they do it with seeming impunity. My point in this thread is, and has always been, that if you don’t have either positive feedback or constructive criticism to offer the OP, why say anything at all? There are plenty of other threads to contribute to, and when these people feel they need to do what they do they only seem like insult opportunists, and they waste everyone’s time spewing such unnecessary negativity. Coming in and condemning the OP’s music as ‘crap’ only degrades the discussion forum IMHO.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

I agree, Jack. And that was well said.

All I’m saying is that when you start calling people names and tossing their own insults back at them, you end up sounding just like them. You frequently call this board a "snake pit." (I find that ugly and unwarranted. I used to call this place the "bile board" but I quit when I realized that I was only adding to the problem.) This too only degrades the discussion forum.

You have to decide—every time you post—whether or not to be one of the snakes.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

There does seem to be a circular bit of yarbling here.

Your points are made.

Next?

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Heh, Toppish, some of us won’t stop till we feel our points have been *heard.*

๐Ÿ˜€

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Tried that last night Will. Ain’t gonna happen. Good luck, though.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Perhaps I meant to say:

Your points are made?

Next.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Will writes: "All I’m saying is that when you start calling people names and tossing their own insults back at them, you end up sounding just like them."

Tabs has already pointed out why your line of reasoning falls flat, and I’m not interested in getting into one of your circular logic debates. I’m with Toppish and prefer to just move on.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"if you don’t have either positive feedback or constructive criticism to offer the OP, why say anything at all?"

Sir, kindly point me to where you have offered positive feedback or constructive criticism to offer the OP in this thread.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

… or even simply what the OP clearly asked for … he would love to hear your thoughts on what you can hear of the sample on his website. He would love to hear your feedback on his "awesome" tunes.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Llig..Jacks point is obvious..Why be as hurtful as is possible to a young musician who has just completed an album of his own compositions and is obviously excited and pleased with himself and call his music crap as J Kiparsky and yourself did. Jack thinks it would be possible to maybe pass on this one.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well John - diddledummusic,,

Has allowed me to try out his Reel on youtube -
In a Private message,, This was my reply….

Thank’s for you Quick reply - There’s NOTHING wrong
with you Musician-ship - I understand where you are
coming from - When I was young I over played and put
in thing’s that was not ITM, Old Guys at Fleadh’s said
The Bothy Band just play’s POP music, And once in a
session of Great Old fiddlers, One come over to be when
at the toilet, Said son your a good fiddler, But,
then leaning his hand on my shoulder said - ” But Jayues
you’d make a great Jazz Player ” That was nearly the end of
ITM for me there and then…

I’ll have a go at you Reel - But I think is not as Easy a tune
as I first Heard — Thank-you for allowing me this Pleasure !

jim,,,

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

llig - I am sorry for ever describing anything I’ve created as awesome. I think having accomplished the feat of completing an album of my own work is awesome — I was caught up in the excitement of having finished this, and wanted to share it with you, and I thought that was awesome. I realize how my original post has irked you and I’m sorry - I should have read what I wrote and should not have worded it that way. I was just caught up in the excitement of sharing this with you and did not pay due attention to what I was actually saying in my OP.

If I thought my work was awesome, brilliant, and beyond critique I would not have bothered posting here seeking advice from the members of this site. I believe that the majority of people here understand my intent and have overlooked my naivety, however since you seem unable to I am asking you to accept my sincere apologies and let it go. It was not my intent, as I hope it was neither your intent to provide a plethora of useless and un-constructive dialogue to this post. I did appreciate and enjoy those dancing videos you posted — and yes some of them I have seen before. In fact, in the show I danced in, there was one number which featured Sean Nos dancing, and I thought it was quite a joy to learn something different from step dancing. This video is also quite brilliant, I think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M5Pe92Vsqk

Michael Moynihan, how he can possibly do this without emasculating himself, and in perfect timing is beyond me.
Pure brilliance I think.

I honestly didn’t expect to sell a single CD to anybody on this site - I considered this to be a place where I could solicit the advice of experienced musicians and gain an understanding of how to improve my own music, which I hope you can appreciate. My CD is intended for the "Girls with Curls" which this site does not really cater to — I do hope you’ll accept my apology and understand where I am coming from and the purpose of my sharing my music with you in the first place.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Diddle..You have absolutely nothing to apologize for..Keep playing the tunes.Cork is a good place to be. Keep posting here and hope you sell a sh*tload of cds to the dancers.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"He asked for opinions on his music and you let him have it and it was rough and over the top but he asked.."

It’s an odd thing, the fella asked and yes, phantom button’s position is clear … he says that if one doesn’t have any positive feedback then one shouldn’t reply. And phantom button has done that, he hasn’t replied. I suppose it is a kind of veiled honesty.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Apology accepted. Thankyou.

Though my posts are only useless and un-constructive if you don’t heed them.

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Your posts were useless and unconstructive here and I would hope they were not heeded. Diddle you have nothing to apologize for. Best of luck with the album and I hope a sh*tload of dancers buy it.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Sorry for repeating. Thought the first one didnt get through.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

"Develop an interest in Irish music. And specifically after hearing that clip, develop an interest in listening to Irish music.. And heck, while you are at it, you could do worse than developing an interest in dancing to Irish music too."

Your music "… doesn’t sound at all like Irish music. I’m no being facetious, I really am trying to help. There is nothing you can do about this other than listen yourself. You can’t be told why, you have to hear it for yourself."

You really think that that is useless and unconstructive?

Posted .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Llig,like many other people here I find your knowledge of the music useful and constructive in general.On this thread when you jumped in with J Kips ignorant comment describing the music as crap and repeating that assertion all usefullness and constructiveness became reduntant.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

To all the English teachers..I know how to spell redundant!

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

You could try taking some of your compositions, to play them on whatever it is your instrument is in perhaps the sin e and gauge the reaction of the musicians there for comparison….

Posted by .

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

diddledummusic

It seems to me that you have nothing to apologise for. There are certain posters on this website who take advantage of its openness to vent. Spitefulness, condescension and outright rudeness are their customary modes of communication.

I suggest you ignore them.
Ed.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Tab, you may know how to spell redundant, but you don’t know how to use the word. You mean superfluous.

I’ve given up on the content of your posts - there is none - but I’m happy to wind you up about the deficiencies of your English. Let’s see you turn red and sputter, little man.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John -
I had a go at your reel today - Its not how you Completely wrote
it, but, I wanted it to sound more like the older style - Its only a sample done to much in a hurry - But I’ll likely will play in more like you composed it as the week’s go on - lol.

Not to be take toooo Seriously —- jim,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZtCxbae7cM

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Diddledum, I just saw a post on facebook-sorry I’m not sure how to link you to it-it was a black and white video of a couple doing a dance to a Dave Brubeck tune-called "Unsquare Dance." The music and the dance had a few bits quoting traditional idioms, but it was more of an art piece-really cool. I thought of your music.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Well played Jim. I kept expecting it to turn in Fr Kelly’s (as someone mentioned above).

@Jon: frankly banging on about how other posters use English is offensive. Maybe you’re wound up on this thread, I hope when you calm down you’ll regret your last post.

- chris

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Jon. You might think you write good English .You dont. You write correct English which has no charm. Traditional music is like this.Good musicians have a style of their own that marks them out. None of the masters of this music that I know of had the education that you seem to think is required to discuss the music. I would have hoped that this forum is a bit like an actual session where musicians and listeners gather out of love for the music. Jon,Believe me that if you came to a session in Co Clare and started correcting peoples way of talking after telling one of them that their music is crap you would get a massive kick in the hole to guide you back to where you live and people obviously accept this sh*t.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

FIDDLE4, Nice job, they say a picture is worth 1000 words, and with your fiddle you were able to get across your point better than people who expended a whole lot of words trying to do the same thing! We keep talking about how this is an aural tradition, and then try to use grammar to express ourselves…and no matter how proper it is, it frequently falls short…

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

FIDDLE4,
Thanks for all your effort in translating J-A S’s tune. It’s a fine example of interpretation and how a tune can transform from one style to another.

The original,
http://db.tt/OMZcAd8
to my ears, sounds very close to Scottish country dance music, on the order of Alasdair MacCuish (especially with the modern style of piano accompaniment).
Heard here:
https://www.footstompin.com/products/cds/stepping_out (listen to the Ceilidh Cascade track)

But, your interpretation of the tune puts it firmly in a more Irish tradition, and, in my opinion easily into the sessionable tune camp.

Impressive.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Thanks for the link, Jim!

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

An interesting exercise for the reader:

- Listen to Jimโ€™s youtube account of Jonโ€™s tune โ€“ rather good.
- Now go back and review the comments which were posted in this thread after Jon posted his recording of the tune.
- Marvel at the generosity of the human spirit.

Ed.

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Wow Jim, that was very impressive — more or less exactly what i wrote — would love to hear a more polished recording once you’ve had some practice and aren’t in such a hurry!

The dancing/music clip was very entertaining ๐Ÿ™‚ I definitely wouldn’t cateorize it as Irish music or dance, but I can appreciate the amount of creativity that went into both the music and the choreography…brilliant!

And yes I can definitely hear the similarity between what I recorded and that recording of SCottish country dance music…it’s very interesting that you reference that because lately more and more english/scottish musicians are gaining momentum in the Irish dancing world…most of the music I have danced to would have been made by Scottish and English, not Irish musicians…so as much as I can say my music isn’t *exactly* like that, I can see the similarities for sure, and wonder if the predominance of Scottish/English musicians in Irish dancing has contributed towards this influence being present in my work??? Very interesting, thanks for sharing!!

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John —

< would love to hear a more polished recording once you’ve had some practice and aren’t in such a hurry!>

That’s what I was thinking of doing next week for u-tube,
see the Private Message I’ve sent you about this….

jim,,,

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

John — I just ment you email on here -
Just click on your name at the top of this - goes to you profile

diddledummusic
Send an email

All I want to know is , if I can try another for youtube - with links to you website etc on it ….. As It is your composition ,,,,

jim,,,

Re: New Music CD..all new tunes ๐Ÿ™‚

Nice work, Jim… it’s nice to see this thread come to a positive resolution.