box notation

I’d like to write a tune out for a friend who’s a box player, but she uses a kabbalistic notation system - all capital letters with ticks by some. Can anyone point me to a tutorial? Or explain the basics?

She can’t explain her system?

Yes, she is a languages teacher and has been marking homework.

if she were here, she could explain it - but not in relation to staff notation or a piano keyboard. I just need to know which octave is which and where it changes

I have seen that sort of thing in collections of tunes kept by Irish musicians. One version that I saw went like this: if it was in the “first octave” (ie bottom octave of either whistle or flute - and yes, I know they’re different, but not for tune recordng purposes they’re not) it would just be the note name itself; if the note had a ‘tick’ next to it, it was in the “second octave”. If you try that, does that make sense, airport?

yes - thank you! some of the letters had 2 ticks though, so do you think the lowest octave would still be the note name itself? What’s the range of a B/C box?

Hmmm … I don’t know. I’ve got one somewhere … past my bedtime now though … someone will come along and answer I feel sure.

Dots and the standard ABC system used on this site aren’t the only notation systems around for this music. In fact, as used by real-life, Irish musicians, I’d say, from what I’ve seen, that something like you’ve seen is more common, airport.

B/C box has the normal D to b, plus a c’natural up at the top (c#, too, but I don’t know if I’ve ever used it) and goes down almost an octave below the standard range to an E, but most people don’t play down there a lot. If you type in some samples of the notation, maybe someone will be able to decipher it for you.

This sounds like the notation used by Frank Custy to teach his students around Ennis in the 70’s and 80’s. I have a couple of his books at home, but they’re scant on a legend or lexicon to that definitely kabbalistic notation.

He taught Sharon Shannon and I presume Josephine Marsh, so it must have worked! It’s similar to ABC, but different. No direct translation that I know.

The box has about a 2 1/2 octave range from a bottom G or so below the flute D up to the upper c in the second octave. Depends on the instrument.

So maybe something like:
F, G, A, B, C, D, E‘, F’, G‘, A’, B‘, C’, D‘, E’‘, F’‘, G’‘, A’‘, B’’, C"

Thanks for all your help - I don’t have any examples (sorry Jon) - guess I’ll just have to ask her

I found an example - here’s part of it:
A‘F’#D‘F’# E‘D’BD’

the octave changes at C, and the low octave is marked by putting a mark that looks like a caret over the letter, so something like
A^ B^ C D E F G A B C‘ D’ E‘ F’ G‘ A’ B’ and I think the upper couple of notes are the ones with the double tick

is there a way to indicate length of notes? or triplets etc?

I started on the accordion with the system you refer to, it was a support to learning by ear, it was always hand written so tripplets were represented by an arc covering the three notes, I can’t remember how duration was represented, I think it was done either by distance between the notes or it may have been by numbers, but seeing as we were learning by ear the duration was obvious.. I seem to remember the low notes like B as B, but I could be wrong..
I would give her the ABC version and she would probably learn ABC well enough after about 10 minutes, to learn any tune.

If you want to have a bit of fun, you could show here this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdCOoEe-nHI&feature=player_embedded

play video

You often see tunes written out like this in Ireland but the code seems to vary a bit from person to person. Often a - represents a longer note etc. so take Saddle the Pony, it’d be D GBA G-B D‘E’F‘ G’D’B GBA G-B AFD AFD etc. May this helps. Could the ^ be a sharpened note?

I’ve used a system similar to Wounded Hussar’s.

D / GBA G_B / D‘E’F‘ G’D’B / GBA G_B / AFD AFD

O.K. I’d have to look again & see how I used the notation. It was for whistle, so for tunes with C# & F#, or in D, it’s easy enough to just write out the letters. But I do remember sometimes using #s, but usually not. Just off the cuff I’d say “Saddle the Pony” could be written:
D / GBA G_B / D‘E’F‘# G’D’B / GBA G_B / AF#D AF#D
Sorry, I don’t remember doing anything for writing in C nats.

Are the ticks for push-notes or something like that?
Or notes on the other row?

Generally the ticks are for the higher octave. Also many don’t write out the sharps if they are natural to the key (pun) For example in D just write F, not F#, C not C#.

If you’re starting from scratch the abc notation, case sensitive for octave, is very nice.