Frankie Gavin and “De Danann”… or whoever they are!

I recently went to see what I was told was going to be Frankie Gavin and De Danann in Birr. What I in fact got to see on the night, was a three piece band (that sound absolutely NOTHING like De Danann) with a singer that came on and off the stage. Nothing more nothing less. Where was the accordion player? It was advertised as a De Danann gig and there was no box-player, how can Frankie Gavin continue on calling this band De Danann when it has only one person who was ever in De Danann and no box-player?? I’ve looked on their site and Damien Mullane is advertised to play everywhere, they are selling this show as De Danann and it simply isn’t. IT IS A PHONY SHAM and a rip off!!!! How can he charge paying customers like me top dollar to come in and see a sham show??
Much has been said over the course of the last few years on the authenticity of Frankie’s outfit, I decidied to go and have a look to see what they were like and was seriously let down by the line-up on the stage.. THIS IS NOT DE DANANN!!
I think next time I feel like going to see a De Danann it will most definitely be other one! At least they have 5 members and all of them were at one time actually in De Danann! Eleanor Shanley is an amazing vocalist with a fantastic repertoire of songs, VERY De Danann. The other singer in Frankie’s band simply doesn’t.
I feel ripped off to say the least, I should have asked for my money back but didn’t on the night. I read this site regularly but have never been tempted to actually submit a discussion til now.
There is something wrong with this set-up..
anybody tempted to go and see Frankie Gavin and "De Danann" DON"T.. you will be very very disappointed!

I had an aunt who went to a funeral home one time and after praying and leaving with the group she was with said "He didn’t look at all like himself." Later they found out they went to the wrong room.
Nothing to do with this thread. Just thought of it while reading.

I once saw the Frankie Gavin alleged De Danann. Other than having a box player with them for this particular concert, I still agree with everything Maureen22 says. It was free, so it wasn’t necessary to ask for my money back.

I later saw De Danann with Alec Finn, Johnny McDonagh, and Elenor Shanley. I enjoyed every minute of their concert.

"how can Frankie Gavin continue on calling this band De Danann when it has only one person who was ever in De Danann and no box-player?? "

Possibly for the same reason Paddy Moloney can call his band ‘The Chieftains’ and The Boys of the Lough continue with only one member who was in the band with that name back in 1967.

What’s in a name? Sometimes a lot of acrimony.

"What’s in a name? Sometimes a lot of mony."

I’m guessing this was the line up?
"If You Love Me" - Michelle Lally, Frankie Gavin & Mike Gavin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgg9OWTz7Cc

play video

"What’s in a name? Sometimes a lot of mony."

Hence the acrimony over the name.

Maureen 22 wrote ‘I read this site regularly but have never been tempted to actually submit a discussion til now.’

Well, if she’d been tempted to search the archives here before she went to the gig she’d have discovered much disquiet about FG’s appropriation of the band’s name. However, all her shouty text makes me wonder if this is a genuine posting.

To be fair to Paddy Moloney, The Chieftains does still include three members of the band who’ve been with him for more than thirty years (Seán, Matt and Kevin).

"To be fair to Paddy Moloney, The Chieftains does still include three members of the band who’ve been with him for more than thirty years (Seán, Matt and Kevin)."

Quite, but not really relevant to situations like this. IMO, De Danann died a death as soon as Finn and Gavin parted company. It was the consistent sound of the band (it would be a cause for concern if two consecutive albums featured the same singer). I don’t think either of them could be expected to call their outfit ‘De Danann’ and fool the public that the sound would still be there. Another problem is that it’s so easy to dislike Frankie Gavin, due, in no small part to his attitude.

And there’s only ever been one Boys of the Lough at a time. I met them (the latest version), real gentlemen, every one of them.

"And there’s only ever been one Boys of the Lough at a time."

Quite. However, I rather suspect that Dave Richardson (who is not an original member) played a major part in retaining the name. Just supposing though, that there was an argument between Richardson and Bain as to who should take the name. It wouldn’t really matter to the public, but the Finn/Gavin argument seems to attract people to the soapbox to argue for either side. Legally, I should imagine (not sure of Irish law) that neither has a right to the name. Morally, it seems that Gavin’s support is in the minority, and that could be more to do with personality than (divine, in the case of Gavin) right.

Barry, get on the phone!

Blimey again!

It is strange that Frankie still uses the name for his band/s because the music has no similarity to what it was with De Danann.

On the other hand, how a musician percieves their collaborations can be very different than how the public/fans view bands.

A lot of times musicians aren’t aware of how they are percieved. For whatever reasons, Frankie obviously feels compeeled to use the name which is for better or worse. Who knows, maybe he thinks that he is attracting a new group of fans who will in the future think of De Danann as "the old DeDanann."

Whatever reasons he has, "old" De Danann fans obviously disagree with his direction. I’m just glad he is out there playing and doing his thing. It’s not always an easy thing to keep going when fiddlers (even at his level) aren’t exactly rolling in money.

**Who knows, maybe he thinks that he is attracting a new group of fans who will in the future think of the CURRENT De Danann as "the old DeDanann."

Who knows, maybe he will. There are people who think there are more than three movies in the Star Wars franchise, so you know anything’s possible.

Jon -
Very good answer above ; )

jim,,,

The story of De Danann and the ‘Star Spangled Molly’ album was featured in Philip King’s excellent ‘Spin’ series on TG4 last night.

Most of the members were interviewed separately. Alec graciously acknowledged Frankie’s part in the band and Frankie graciously acknowledged Alec’s part. Same with Johnny Ringo McDonagh.

Frankie played a tune and (in a separate location) Alec, Johnny Ringo and Jackie Daly played another. No mention of acrimony or of today’s different lineups.

By the way, Alec said that vocalists never stayed with the band because they always wanted to go on to form their own bands or pursue solo careers.

Nonetheless, they were once a great band.

I’m inclined to think that if Frankie Gavin went out under just his name he would do ok. I’d pay to hear him (provided there was a cap on the ‘joke-time’!) - surely he’s as famous in his own right as De Danaan

The thing about Frankie Gavin, is that when playing diddley tunes (rather than buggereing about with stuff he’s rubbish at) he’s on form and he’s an absolute delight.

But it’s only people who understand diddley music that get this. And there ain’t enough of those to sustain a career. So what can he do but try to use every trick in the book to get the punters through the door. Fair play to him I say. He was once the most famous player in a famous band, so milk it. (Caveat: "famous"? ha ha ha)

This reminds me of that other thread where people were slagging Liz Carroll and asking what possessed her to put on her website a video of herself playing to Obama and a bunch of suits in the White House. Like duh … she’s been hired by one of the most famous people in the world. In the entertainment buisness you’ve gotta scrape up any old bit of fame where you can.

Diddlers cannot live on diddley alone.

Hi Maureen 22,

I am sorry to hear that you have been misled, I haven’t played with "Frankie Gavin and De Dannan for over 2 months. To avoid any other confusion I won’t be playing with this band anymore.


Damien Mullane

"Much has been said over the course of the last few years on the authenticity of Frankie’s outfit…."

" I decidied to go and have a look to see what they were like…"

Sounds like you did not expect to see "the old DeDannan". So why feel ripped off?

If you paid to see Fleetwood Mac, would you feel ripped off if Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer didn’t appear on stage?

Sounds like there’s another split! Are we now going to have Damien Mullane and De Danann?!

I think in this day and age when people are a bit more strapped for cash and looking for better value is every aspect of our lives MacCruiskeen, rip off merchants like these are all the more apparant. This is a genuine posting, I don’t understand why you’d say it’s not.
Harmonic Miner, I did not expect the old de Danann as I am currently not in posession of a time machine, but I did however expect at the very least the line-up that was advertised on the night in Birr.
llig leahcim, I find it very hard to read your post as you keep referring to Irish Traditional Music as "diddley".. a term that I find at best condescending and at worst offensive. Your understanding of "diddley" is obviously not what you think it is or you would never use such an awful term to describe it.
My reason for posting the complaint on this website was to let people know that Frankie Gavin is advertising and promoting a show that does not exist. I felt screwed over having seen it and feel I have the right to complain. Obviously band line-ups change all the time, from Solas to Lúnasa, The Chieftains to Gráda but none of thses have had the controversy surrounding them that the De Dananns (plural) have. I feel that given all the fuss about it the very least Frankie Gavin should do is put a show on the road that doesn’t leave people feeling cheated out of their money! The gig I saw was absolute rubbish!
it appears obvious that there is a lot of ill-feeling out there towards Frankie for various reasons, I don’t know him personally and have never spoken to him but I can see why. He takes this p**s!
Damien, thank you for clearing up your position in this matter and best of luck to you in the future.
Maureen Carney
Kilcormac
Co. Offaly
(I’m real!!!)

Maureen, you took offence where none was given. You’ve got to be careful about that one.

Jesus Damo! they’re gone mad! word on the street is that they’re gone mad talking about you on the interweb!..I’ve a feeling it’ll be like when Robbie left Take That.. you’ll leave ‘em for dust.. you’re better off without that shower.. bad buzz.. you rock hard my friend.. ;)

I also hate the term "diddley".. makes me feel queasy :(

Pauline

I’ve never posted on this shaggin thing before either.. but I AM real.. god, what can you get away with saying before they kick you off???

Quite a lot, Pauline - go for it :)

I think I prefer real life to be honest.. I’m outta here!

Pauline,
Arghh gu on, stay a bit longer, you’ve only been a member for about 15 minutes….. please don’t go back to your other account.

Best Regards,
Mary

"By the way, Alec said that vocalists never stayed with the band because they always wanted to go on to form their own bands or pursue solo careers."

Have you heard the one about Frankie’s beer shampoo?

Damien:
I hope they sent you a check for using your name.

Myself, I would have been grabbing some tix to hear you, as much as to hear FG or the alleged Dedanann, as i love your playing.
I doubt I am the only one.

Just wondering.

I’m tempted to hang out for the day Mary but I have to clean my kitchen, we had the craic last night you see :)

I’m not real, I’m an transient ever-shifting aggregation of electrons that exists only so long as people look at me then when they look I away I cease to exist.

I saw Liz Carroll and John Doyle the week before last and they were fantastic. Brilliant. Inspirational.

Arggh yeah the feckin dishes, I have some fancy cousins up in Dublin, and they have one of those new dish washer thingies, they’re supposed to be very dear on the electricity, so I’m told… but you can cook spuds in them if you have a waterproof bag.

JiM/Fiddle4:
Just listened to your posting.

Nice stuff,really, I loved the torch song , the blue-lit lounge.
Fiddle had as much in common with Grappelli as with Coleman, I deem.
Only thing missing was the clink of icecubes in a shaker.
;-)

"We proudly present ——
the Dedannan Lounge Lizards!!"

Simply stunnin’.

Jaysus, Pauline, I forgot to ask you, how’s Maureen getting on after the operation ?

Did you see her new red coat at mass on Sunday, she was first to stand up to say the creed, anyway…. doesn’t miss a trick our Maureen.

I’m away to chance the spuds in the dishwasher.. thanks for the tip Mary.. here’s one for you.. never EVER play leap-frog with a unicorn.. can you un-member yourself on this thing? I don’t really care for it..

it’s not me I’m afraid, I only popped in for a gawk!

Pauline, Just tell Jeremy you have multiple accounts on thesession.org, he’ll sort you out..

‘Have you heard the one about Frankie’s beer shampoo?’

No. Do enlighten us Weejie!

I’d better not. Let’s just say that it involved one of those singers, and it gave a whole new meaning to ‘the parting glass’.

I’ll say at this point that all my dealings with Mr Gavin have been most professional and he was the perfect gentleman.

Lucky you Weejie!

Damien Mullane

If you want to un-member yourself try the leap-froggy unicorn thing. It worked for meeeeee.

s far as I know Barry Brady has joined Gavins new group as the accordion player and a fine deft hand he has too.

"Lucky you Weejie!"

I do believe I’m in a minority, indeed.

Heres the link to that De Danann programme http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?content=583781623809 Its nice to see proper clear footage of the Neachtains session from 1982 or 83 compared to the older grainier stuff I upped on youtube.

‘As far as I know Barry Brady has joined Gavins new group as the accordion player and a fine deft hand he has…’

I wonder how long he’ll stay in the band without getting paid?

On a side note, to everyone who ‘gets’ diddley…

I hear Brian eno is going to join liz Carroll and john Doyle and Caiomhin o r is going to be their dancer.
Anyone who doesn’t think this will be cool and amazing doesn’t have a clue.

Ps. Maureen,
Have you heard wonderwaltz?

‘Caiomhin o r’… is he the chap from Somerset?

That would be cool and amazing Hugo … if it wasn’t just a cruel wind up.

I’m convinced you are a cruel windup.

Where did you hear of this collaboration, Hugo?

Here.

http://www.mediciexhibition.hu/medici/english/img_tartalom/firenze/Domnagy.jpg

Pot calling the kettle black?

ha ha

Liz Carroll and John Doyle are something I have yet to see but judging be her recent performance on the Gradim Ceol, I’d say they are amazing alright.
I haven’t heard Wonderwaltz Hugo, what is it? can you get it on itunes?
I’ve never heard of Barry Brady, good news for audiences if finally they will have a full line-up, wonder if they will stop advertising the line-up that is there?
Finally, I am not Pauline Irlandais, just me myself and I !! It seems like she’s only on here to take the mick anyhow.
Maureen

Wonderwaltz is the new De Dannan album (the Ringo/Finn DD). Bought it online for download, can’t remember if it was on itunes….

Barry Brady is one of the best box players in Ireland (living in Galway). Played in the band Morga, and they are playing their last gig together soon somewhere in France. Barry is the sh*t when it comes to straight up, no-nonsense "box’ing" :)

"Barry is the sh*t when it comes to straight up, no-nonsense "box’ing""

I thought you were talking about Mr McGuigan for a moment, but then he seems happier in the kitchen these days.

Something which hasn’t yet been mentioned here and may be of importance in distinguishing the two line ups…. and probably necessary for legal reasons.

The more astute among you will realise that "De Danann" was the original spelling although they recorded several albums before the name change to "De Dannan" for the "Ballroom" album.
Of course, there were quite a few albums since then under the new name.

You’ll all be aware of the recent stooshie and the fact that there are now two bands.

The main line up, in my opinion, are De Danann

http://dedanann.info/default.aspx

whom I look forward to hearing soon. They appear to have reverted to the original name.

The other lot have continued with the more recent spelling "De Dannan" plus the "head honcho" also gets a special mention….

http://www.dedannan.com/profile.php

Mr.Brady playng with Morga.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3lE5XiRTHQ

play video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukJoLxg-XH8&NR=1

play video

Good box.
Good fiddle.
Good banjo.
Good drum.
Good music.

So, who "needs" Gavin?
;-/

Maureen (Pauline)
I was "actually" at the Frankie Gavin & DeDannan concert in Birr and there were, in fact, 5 people on stage that night. I was somewhat surprised not to see Damien Mullane with them, however Barry Brady, whom in my humble opinion, fills the shoes of Mairtin O’Connor or Jackie Daly, did not disappoint. As an accordion player myself (albeit in the third division) I recognise great playing. To compare one singer in DeDannan to another is inacurate as each one has had their own individual sound and the present vocalist is no exception. Michelle Lally gave a great performance on the night as did every member of the band. My friends and I were happy to partake in 2 standing ovations and will be looking forward to seeing them again in the near future. I have been a fan of Frankie Gavin’s for many years and he always delivers quality music. DeDannan is alive and well!!!!

Well, I wish Barry all the best, but………… Never record a cd with Frankie Gavin unless you get paid first. €3000 is not a figure you want to chasing after you leave the band. Running and hiding doesn’t work with me, I suppose this can all be settled in court, fine by me!

Damien Mullane