Bodhran loops or mp3

Bodhran loops or mp3

Sorry if you´ve been through this many times.
Is there any downloadable Reel and jigs Bodhran loops or mp3 files for practising.

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Christ on a bike

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I have some, if you want to contact me.

Christ has run out of them 🙂

I’m actually being serious about having the mp3 files 🙂

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Ask again in 5 days.

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Which reel and jig are you referring to ? They’re not all the same.

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If you send me the dots, I can play it into a recorder, and e-mail you the sound file… 😉

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Okay, I make no apologies, so don’t even start, guys… We have two on our web site. They’re (of course) annoyingly repetetive, and have too much reverb. But then, they do the job, and you can’t expect Paddy League in a bodhran loop. There’s one for jigs, and one for reels.

Go to: http://home.comcast.net/~saustin98/lark/#Miscellaneous
and click the MIDI link for one of the "Rhythm Backup" entries. (they’re actually mp3s and not midis).

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Christ on a bike indeed

When I think of what I love about this music … when I think of the joy, the expression, the humanity, the sharing … the effortless musicality … ….

… and then something like this thread comes along and all I can feel is just desperately sad.

I fight a constant battle with myself, I traverse a knife edge, I teeter on the brink between being a bright eternal optimist and suffering the depths of the despair of the dreary cynical curmudgeon.

And you guys tip me over into the abyss of gloom.

Damn your blinkers
Damn your deafness
Damn your bleak souls

You are a swirling super massive cosmic black hole sucking in the poor unfortunates towards your appalling zero creativity. A gravity so dense that no light can escape. An event horizon beyond which all is lost.

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lovely day Michael.

The Tunes

I’ve no problem with a drummer playing in session. If you want to play with tunes, play with tunes.

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I just listened (briefly) to the jig and reel tracks linked to by Steve Austin. For the life of me, I can’t imagine wanting to play along to those. There’s no tune at all in them, no sense of music, no pulse, just a relentless samey whacking.

And they don’t sound anything like any jig or reel feel I’ve ever heard.

Anyone who thinks that playing along to such a track would be helpful in learning to play this music, in genuinely improving, is entirely missing the point.

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Following your lead I linked, saw MIDI, & then I was even more brief.

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But it’s not midi, they’re both mp3 files. Which makes the lack of a soul even more amazing.

I don’t mind a well-played bodhran. I’ve done very enjoyable gigs just me on fiddle and a friend on bodhran. But the friend knew and played the pulse of the tunes.

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… but it is midi Will. Midi is no longer just merely a computer language. It has evolved in to a way of playing. It has evolved into a way of playing because many people listen and learn from it.

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There’s an instructional CD out there, a bodhran tutorial, by Ray Gallen. It has many different types of tunes (18 sets), and you can pan the stereo to one side or the other to isolate the drum or the other instruments.

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" Midi is no longer just merely a computer language. It has evolved in to a way of playing."

Midi is exactly what it’s always been (though the concept has been developed) - which is not a computer language (yet it can be, and is used in computers), but a standardised "interface". It essentially allows the delivery of instructions from one device to another or several others (put rather simply). Obviously, as it conveys digital information, it was immediately adaptable for use in computers, but it was initially developed to control synths.

I have some (rather old) digital recording equipment which uses midi to link two eight track machines together (and it does use a computer for that job). There is not a "midi instrument" to be heard.
Am I being pedantic? Perhaps, but "midi" hasn’t developed into a way of playing. Some people might listen too much to midi sequenced sounds - and emulate the ‘lifeless’ regularity and lack of emotion, but that "playing" is not midi. It just sounds somewhat akin to something being played through midi.
Even those Bothy Band albums that you listened to were utilising midi, Mr Gill. Triona wouldn’t have got far without it, and I’m pretty sure that it was used much in the studio.

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I notice the "Rhythm Backup" jig and reel are in the key of G, does anyone have the same in the key of D, I don’t want to have to go and re-tune the bodhran again.

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Christ, what a pedant Weejie. And though I remember well midi-ing all my keyboards together after smpte striping my tape, etc etc yawn yawn, you know damn well that wasn’t what I was referring to.

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Well, you may see it as pedantic, but your premise was crap.

The point I was making is that "midi" was neither what you claimed it to be nor has it evolved into what you claim it has become.
"Midi" hasn’t developed into a way of playing, but sequenced music might have become so commonplace that the "feeling" might have gone out of certain types of music and tempo might have become more rigid etc.
Computerised music, that utilises midi instructions is perhaps lifeless - but "midi" is not a "way of playing" traditional music by humans. If people only heard computerised music, then it is likely they wouldn’t have a clue as to how to accent and phrase, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it is to blame for "lifeless" Irish music. I don’t believe that people only listen to midi files to learn the tunes. It could just as well be that there are people playing and teaching who are going by the written page.

I think I know what you were referring to, but you have presented it as all "doom and gloom". Those mp3s are not "midi". They are just very naughty boys.

I frequently play pieces I’ve transcribed (mostly polyphonic) through the computer to listen for transcription errors - I trust my ears more than my eyes, because I learned to play by ear. The midi sounds sheight, but it does reassure me that I can detect small errors more readily by ear. It’s not going to get me playing in the style of a midi file - not ever.
Just as notation is a shorthand as an aid to remembering tunes, the midi can be the same. I credit myself with enough savvy to know how to actually play the tune on an instrument - with accent and phrasing.

At least credit people with some intelligence.

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Could it stand for Mindless Insensitive Drumming Idiots?

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Well, without going into the theory of "collective intelligence", you’d have to measure "sensitivity". It may have more to do with selfish determination.

I’ve met quite a few professional classical musicians who look down on "folkies" as less musically intelligent beings.

Maybe those drummers are lower down in the peck order.

Anyway, although there is, in theory, a potential for computerised trad to lead musicians astray, I’ve yet to hear a musician play in as strict timing - playing the note lengths etc the same as midi files. The problem seems to stem from hearing other musicians who play or teach without nyaah, along with the player’s own inexperience when it comes to lack of understanding of idiom.

Certainly, listening to midi files is not going to improve matters.

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I can’t credit anyone on this thread with any intelligence … least of all myself

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Christ on a bike is pretty bright - unless it involves jumping red lights at rush hour.

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He’s probably listening to midi files on that pic.

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Can’t be the big J. He’s more into saving than scoring.

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Skreech, that triangle album is amazing…

"Nearly an hour of pure, unadulterated classic Cajun triangle. Seriously, its an idea so simple and so brilliant, we had to get Cajun royal lineage involved! This is sure to become a collector’s item, as we’re only going to print a limited amount, and it features Christine Balfa’s playing, the production of Chas Justus, and the engineering of Joel Savoy.

No one will ever do this again."

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$6 for the CD or if you can’t wait for the delivery you can pay $45 for the MP3 album!

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You could hide a few bikes in those Barnets.

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‘llig’, "Christ on a bike" would be closer to a mechanically wound metronome; this is closer to Christ on an electric moped, or a scooter at best.

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Well, tghanks for your answers.
I like the Markstone mp3 and I dont mind paying 1$ for a track.

I know that the bodhran is supposed to follow the tune, but its for practising and its a lot better than a metronome.

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oh god he’s chosen the nuclear option…. 🙂

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For this thread, I mean.

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Why is it better than a metronome?

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Good on yis Michael, well put.
What a sad state of affairs.

Sam.

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"Quality = meeting customer requirements"

..the Anders man asked for something, he got it, and he’s happy - regardless of all the peripheral huffing and puffing and Domestos-snorting 🙂 🙂

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U r a metro gnome

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"Quality = meeting customer requirements"

That’s what Alan Sugar said before he sold half the world an Amstrad Hi Fi.

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OK, a click track or metronome will help you keep your strict timing but as you’ve seemingly found it won’t help you get the emphasis of the rhythm and pulse for different tunes. So I see where you’re coming from with the idea of bodhrán loops which might give you a clue as to where the rhythmic emphasis lies in a particular type of tune.

But practising like this probably isn’t best in the long run. You shouldn’t be playing along to the bodhrán, you should be finding the rhythm yourself and any decent bodhrán player will be following you not the other way round.

\())

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With all due respect, I think your man Anders knows what he’s doing 🙂

Quality

What is it? Certainly slagging & sarcasm are distractions. But, the simple answers tend to be temporary. Once a question is asked, & one answer is accepted, there’s no guarantee it won’t result in more questions.
Humans 😏 their curiousity is relentless.

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Hi again.
To be honest, I have no idea what half or more of the posts are about. I´m very sorry if I have offended someone.

To worldfiddler:
You get the point. Its only a help I´m looking for, nothing more. I´m not going to practize all the time with a stereotype bodhran track. No way. I know that its not the way to go, but it helps to play with something here and there and I have no local bodhran players where I live. (Huelva, Spain) Metronomes are good, but they are extremely square and hard on the nerves.
I play flamenco guitar at a high level and we use loops or tracks to play along in order to control some of the very complex 12 beat polyrytmic structures that you HAVE to learn. I was jus thinking of doing something like that.
Besides playing with a bodhran track, I will play without and I will play with mp3 files of good fidlers. I will use amazing slowdowner so that I can follow and when I get better I will raise the speed.

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" I have no idea what half or more of the posts are about."

Welcome to thesession Anders!

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Anders, I’m assuming you’re already listening to & playing Irish dance tunes on fiddle?

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Like I said, Anders knows his stuff. For sure he does. 🙂

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…and he lives under a bridge.

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Gam, why slag Anders?

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Anders may well know a lot of stuff … but he doesn’t know that playing along with a metronome won’t help

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I came to Irish music from bluegrass, rock, and blues. Something I figured out (with the help of a couple of great mentors) was that the sooner I let go of certain habits and attitudes from those other genres, the sooner I’d come to understand Irish music for what it is. The rhythmic requirements of bluegrass, in particular, were very different from Irish, and begged for a different approach to getting the pulse.

And that’s all I have to say about that.

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Oh my… I´m very sorry to have started such a problematic thread. You guys have nothing else to do? Or is it so that some of you prefer that people stay away from YOUR forum.
I never said that metronomes dont help. I´ve played with metronomes for decades and I will continue to do so, but they are boring and they get on my nerves, so its nice with something else to play to.
There´s still one thing I havent understood: why are you guys so desperately against playing with bodhran loops???????????????

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… because they don’t help

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… because it will suck the life out of your music sooner than a super massive super nova collapses into a black hole - so dense that not even light can escape

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Have you ever tried or is just old school mumbling, squarehead attitude and prejudice?

Maybe we arent so far from each others. My opinion is that when you play to much with machines, you end up sounding like a machine. But the machines help you straightening out things. All good flamenco players nowadays use loops or mp3 tracks.
I might play some 10 - 20% of my practising with "machines". Nothing more. I need a lot of time without machines in order to find my groove, my swing and also in order to relax. Relaxing is very important in a learning process, and its difficult to relax when playing with a machine.

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"But it’s not midi, they’re both mp3 files. Which makes the lack of a soul even more amazing." (Will)
"… but it is midi Will. Midi is no longer just merely a computer language. It has evolved in to a way of playing. It has evolved into a way of playing because many people listen and learn from it." (llig)

I think you need to listen again guys.

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The best things in life are free.

If you need some rhythm, just tap your foot as you play.

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Playing along with strikt klik traks, wotteffah the source is BAD FOR MUSIC! (unless you actually DO want everything to sound like gay techno or cheap karaoke)

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So what do you think about Fred Morrison’s comments about playing with "the Nashville guys" and "sitting on the click" ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00n6w3j from 21:20 but start at about 20:00 for the context.

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Fred Morrison : talking a whole lot of sense, I think.

All this has been gone through before, here :

https://thesession.org/discussions/29384/

Clicks, metronomes, click tracks, drum tracks - they are all there to enforce discipline - that’s the whole point. Tapping your foot is no guarantee your playing won’t speed up.

As for a bodhran track - surely that would be different, if the sample was recorded from the natural playing of a warm body, unaided by a click during recording? As for the ones for sale, in the previous link, I have no idea how there recorded ….

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It wasn’t "gone through" though was it ? People pontificating about about robotic play ignore comments like those of Morrison about the discipine, and the metronome enthusiasts ignore how he also said "pushing the boundaries is what’s more encouraged with us".

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I got the impression from that interview that "sitting on the click" was referring to playing together and and being very tight. I didn’t get the impression that he was playing with these nashville guys (Jerry Douglas, Sam Bush, Bela Fleck et all) and that they were all playing along to a "click" track. Think about that for a moment, do you really think Jerry Douglas, Sam Bush, Bela Fleck et all play to a click track?

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"The one thing about the Nashville guys, they are very,very strict with the kind of click tempo thing. They are so accurate with that." (Fred Morisson in that interview).

I find it hard to interpret "click tempo thing" as meaning anything other than precisely marked-off times. He specifically contrasts it to "pushing the the boundaries" and menations learning to "pull everything in".

I posted the link in the other thread after a post from Prof P. that included "too strong a weight on the beats and a different forward movement. That’s what you get from training and click playing instead of developing the inner ear."

Whether or not Morisson meant an explicit click during the recording sessions there is a disinction being drawn that is to do with musical idiom, not musicality (which is what yhaalhouse was suggesting). There is an argument that in order to appreciate the subtle variations from regularity we have to feel an implicit regularity that is being varied from.

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It’s an interesting distinction, that of beat v pulse. And one that is always misunderstood by those that advocate playing along with machines.

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Beat vs pulse : OK, a difficult one, I admit, but could you explain? We all think we know the difference, and that is a common assumption, but can you actually put it into words? I’m being serious, I’m not messing with you. OK? 🙂

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Hva faen Anders, skal du til at spiller irsk igen? Hvordan går det ellers i det spanske? Kommer du nogensinde til CPH?

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Just to make the record straight! Anders knows the music I can personally asure you

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Hva faen er det for noget Houlberg (¿¿Banjo Anders??)

For langt ude. Ja jeg er begyndt at spille violin igen og spiller irsk.. Jeg kan huske nästen alle de numre vi spillede. De körer stadi videre oppe i hovedet.
Spanien, op og ned af bakke.

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Basically, it’s the difference between being dead or alive.

The pulse is what you feel in the music. It’s the sound of the music coursing through your veins. It’s the thing that brings oxygen to the notes. It’s that feeling that Colin Clive has when he shouts "IT’S ALIVE I TELL YOU, IT’S ALIVE"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c


Glib hippy nonsense? Maybe.
Basically, no. I can’t put it into words … but that’s why I play music I suppose.

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Back on topic.
I totally agree that playing to much with metronomes or other machines doesnt help, but its a very good way to practice and to learn not to speed.
How many of you have been to a session where it was the fastest and loudest deciding what was correct and not correct. That has nothing to do with music.

And on a sideline, and a bit provocative: Those who hate metronomes, click tracks, loops etc are normally the ones who cant keep a steady beat…

And I forgot: Yes, sometimes, not so often I´m in KBH

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On the contrary, I’ve found that those who advocate playing with metronomes may well be good at keeping a steady beat, but they have awful timing.

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I’d add awful phrasing as well.

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yes, it’s about phrasing really

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So according to the two of you, if you play 10 - 20% of your time with a metronome or whatever, you´ll end up being a bad player?

I never advocated anything, I just find that "machines" can be very helpfull if they are used in a sensefull way. The ones advocating something are you guys.

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[*On the contrary, I’ve found that those who advocate playing with metronomes may well be good at keeping a steady beat, but they have awful timing. I’d add awful phrasing as well. *]

Keeping a steady beat = playing in time, not speeding up, etc.
Your idea of timing and phrasing is subjective, and up for the majority vote. Mabye it’s the subject for another thread, assuming we all hang around long enough not to have slit our wrists and dug our eyes out with spoons … OK, joking 🙂!!

Tawny, your earlier post quoting the Prof. : it’s out of context. The original question on that thread was "Is it OK to play along with a click {metronme} [for practice] .. and the overwhelming sensible answer was "yes".

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Jim, the Prof. quote was a response to the post above from David50.

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‘and the overwhelming sensible answer was "yes"’

Was it though? I don’t think it was at all.

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[*Was it though? I don’t think it was at all. *]

Well, it is now, in the light of this thread. Do you agree? 🙂

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Anders, It was said above, different musics are different musics. I can’t speak for flamenco, I know nothing of it. Except that I enjoy those subdivisions that the dancers’ shoes do and I really like that super fast clapping thing where there’s a really fast down and up beat and some people clap the down and others clap the up. But really, it’s an alien form to me, and I’m perfectly happy to believe that a solid 10-20% of your time with a mechanical time machine could really really help with playing flamenco. I can see where you are coming from.

But diddley music is a completely different kettle of fish.

Let me try again with the beat/pulse thing.

The pulse is where you start to appreciate the fuzzy swells at the beginnings and ends of the beat. Think of the way a heart beat is not a point in time, but a thing in itself. The way the different muscles in the heart expand and contract and rest and expand and contract and rest. The way one chamber passes the blood to the next chamber, pulling, pushing, moving, changing direction.

Think of the way a snake moves. The way waves pass from rib to rib and propel the animal forwards in an almost invisible way.

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Jim, could you put into words what you think is the difference between beat & pulse?

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Sorry, I cross-posted with Michael.

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‘Well, it is now, in the light of this thread. Do you agree?’

I don’t know, I haven’t read this thread. I responded to how you read the conclusion of the other thread.

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Er, Tawny, your quote from the Prof, in response to me, was from the same post I was quoting. Prof’s mention of "a different forward motion" was one of the thing’s I remembered from the earleir discussion.

It doesn’t answer the question of pulse v. beat but it is something to listen for. The (related) bit I missed quoting from the Fred Morrison interview was" it creates that great drive, that the bluegrasser’s have that leaning forward thing". Which, if I understand correctly is *not* pulse.

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"So according to the two of you, if you play 10 - 20% of your time with a metronome or whatever, you´ll end up being a bad player?"
First off I’d rather not persume to speak for Michael. So, thanks Llig for your response. Also there’s a premise that I’ve implied no musician should ever practice with a metronome. I use one myself, on occasion. And, as far as I can recall, I never said a steady beat does not matter.
Anders, all this emphasis on practice methods misses the true importance of what it is to play Irish dance tunes with other musicians. I commiserate with the fact you live somewhere that musicians who play Irish tunes are few & far between. I trust your goal is to practice less & less on the mechanics & ultimately to play Irish music with people.
Cheers!

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Andres, I live in a place where tunes are few and far between, and I get great session clips on youtube, put it up high and play along and pretend I am there. I am serious btw. When you have no tunes sometimes its the best one can hope for. Prolly beat a backing track I reckon.

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David50, the interview with Fred Morrison is not available in my area. I’d love to hear what he has to say.
There’s a few eggs in this basket ~ flamenco polyrhythms. bluegrasser’s leaning forward, the Irish beat/pulse thing …

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Here I was thinking the beat/pulse thing was something to do with kangaroos.

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Ah, sorry Tawny. The original broadcast was so I assumed that clip was as well.

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I also play with records … More than with machines.. And I cheat. I use "the amazing slowdowner" so that I can follow.
I liked what Ilig wrote about diddley music. Flamenco is like that as well and if you overdo your "machine" training you loose it and play square and boring. Classical music, the same, all kinds of etnic or folk the same. Punkrock… hm I dont know. Its more about getting p*ssed and vomit….. I´ve been in all these kinds of music. The breathing is essential. Its what makes us live and what makes us play music. Dont worry to much. I will take it easy with the bodhran tracks and I wont touch the metronome it gets on my nerves.
Thanks anyway. Thanks for the link to the bodhran tracks, thanks for the warnings and thank you for the discussion. Also for that part I didnt understand.

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Anders, you make me want to go and listen to some good flamenco now. You got any recommendations?

But also (I’m sounding like a right moan now, sorry) remember the thing about slowdowner, it slows everything down, including the articulations, which is really horrible.

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2nd that ~

I wouldn’t mind knowing some of the older flamenco players you listen to, Anders; not just contemporary players.

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I don’t want your recommendations, I want Anders’

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OK, sorry, master, but no harm in using your ears anyway 🙂

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Jim, you were a bit quick in both those responses. Would it kill you to wait until Anders responds? Sorry to be brusk, but as you said, "Anders knows his stuff. For sure he does. 🙂".
Cheers.

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[*Jim, you were a bit quick in both those responses. Would it kill you to wait until Anders responds? Sorry to be brusk, but as you said, "Anders knows his stuff. For sure he does. ".
Cheers.*]

OK, point taken … I’m too enthusiastic sometimes. I would like to hear Anders response too 🙂

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What’s your approx location, Tawny, if you don’t mind me asking?

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2nd & Broadway.

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"remember the thing about slowdowner, it slows everything down, including the articulations, which is really horrible. "

Oh yes, I agree. Slowing down to much is like a bad dream with the tones swimming into each other. But some 10 - 20% is ok.
Btw. I also do it with the Bodhran loops <G>

Flamenco. Old school.. Well, I like Niño Ricardo a lot, Sabicas and also old Paco de Lucia. But I´m mostly into flamenco with singers, and there you have Moraito Chico, Cepero and older things like Perico el del Lunar chico.

If you want to see and hear how I play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeUl0LyyjQA&list=UU2t-xK43lTQxzZqtuPYWEug&index=7&feature=plcp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnvVTiHoBfE&list=UU2t-xK43lTQxzZqtuPYWEug&index=2&feature=plcp