looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

So far I have found, Money Musk, Musical Priest, Miss McLeods Reel, Athol Highlanders, I would appreciate it if people could list any they might know .

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Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Over the years I’ve come to realise that it’s not important where the tune originates from, but how it is played and enjoyed. Scots and Irish traditions have cross-fertilised over many years, to both their benefits. One tune has morphed into two or more versions played in these traditions, two for the price of one ! Perhaps some Irish players may not know that a particular tune comes from Scotland or vice versa but what does that matter ? Aside from musicologists most of these kind of enquiries tend to be wind-ups. I hope this isn’t one of them.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

"originally Scottish"?

Presumably, they will still be Scottish? The latter two, especially, still feature very prominently in Scottish music.

Perhaps, we should try to refer to Irish(or Scottish) music as opposed to just the tunes themselves?

Mind you, how do we define Irish music?

Composed in Ireland, played there, played by Irish musicians, any tune played in an "Irish" style, or in an "Irish" session? etc, etc.

What does "Irish" mean when we are talking about the players of the music?

To me, it really all depends on the "style" of playing regardless of where the tunes or the even players originate. Or even the location of the session…

These days too, you are just as likely to find a mixture of tunes, styles, and sometimes even genres of music in a session. It may not please or suit everyone but there are still many opportunities for choice and most discerning players will gravitate towards the type of session and/or music they prefer.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Nice one..

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

I’ve never played in an Irish session that was originally Scottish. Once some Welsh people took over, but that’s a different story…

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Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

:-)

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

:D

List of tunes that were originally Scottish

Thanks for the context. ^

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Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Not sure about a comprehensive list, but I can think of a few:

The Burnt Old Man (The Campbells Are Coming)
The Hair Fell Off Me Coconut(Wi’ A Hundred Pipers )
Lord McDonald’s
My Mary Ann (The Fife Hunt)
The Dogs Among The Bushes (Atholl Brose)
The Farewell to Ireland (The Highlander’s Farewell To Ireland)
Lady Ann Montgomery
The Tarbolton (Tarbolton House)
The Boyne Hunt (The Perthshire Hunt)
The Mason’s Apron
Mac’s Fancy (McDonald of the Isles March to Harlaw)
Rakish Paddy (Cabar Feidh)
The Linen Cap (The Honourable Mrs. Moll’s)
The Flogging (The Flagon)
The Farewell to Whisk(e)y
The Lakes of Sligo (The Lass O’ Gowrie)

Looking for a list of playing styles …

Re: tunes with scottish and irish roots
"Of course, the traffic is two-way, but what I’d say here, is that in Scotland, when you hear an Irish tune being played, you know pretty well immediately that it’s an Irish tune; for the most part, Irish tunes don’t seem to sit well when musicians here try to play them in a Scottish style. However, interestingly, when Scottish tunes are played in an Irish style (by Irish style players), they seem to work quite well. I don’t know why that should be the case, but that’s what my ears tell me!"
Posted on December 8th 2005 by Ron P

https://thesession.org/discussions/8599/comments#comment183685

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Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

JB’s

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

The Graf Spee (The Rothiemurchus Rant)
Lord Gordon’s
The Kilfenora (The Chorus Jig)

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Lads of Laois, Salamanca, Lord Gordon, Ewe Reel. Concertina Reel? In S-Land that goes by the name De’il Amang the Tailors. I found it in an old book the other day as "The D- Among the T-." ;) Can’t foist this coarse talk amongst impressionable members of the public, can we?

The slide The Weaver’s was recorded in the 1920s by Sligo fiddler James Morrison as a Highland Fling, that’s Scottish-ish I guess. Denis Murphy’s Slide is another, originally the Marquis of Huntly’s Highland Fling IIRC.

There’s John Roche’s Favourite, a fling; original title is Lady Ann Hope.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Miss Ramsey; Fairy Reel; Love Will You Marry Me?

Do strathspeys like the Laird of Drumblair or Stirling Castle count? They haven’t really been Irish-ified like these other tunes.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

If a tune is in one octave with a note added below the scale, you can be pretty sure that it was Scottish (whether originally or not is hard to tell of course).

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Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

What about the Glasgow Reel? Does that count?

… and Ive heard Màiri’s Wedding played at "Irish" sessions.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

What aboiut Shetland tunes? Do they count?

e.g. Willafjord, Sleep Soond in da Mornin’.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

A couple more Shetland tunes that I’ve heared played at "Irish" sessions: Spootikerry and da Slockit Light.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

A couple more Shetland tunes that I’ve heard played at "Scottish" sessions: Spootikerry and da Slockit Light.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

"Concertina Reel? In S-Land that goes by the name De’il Amang the Tailors."
…although, now you mention it, I can hear the connection.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Have you ever looked at Fleischmann’s books?

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

To explain that last message: I posted a suggestion that Dick might look in Aloys Fleischmann’s "Sources of Irish Traditional Music" if he seriously wanted a list of Scottish tunes adopted into Irish tradition, as that is by far the most systematic study of the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloys_Fleischmann

I also made a few points about the different kinds of Scottish tune adopted into Irish tradition, and how their different origins might affect the way they get played in the ITM environment.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Don’t let it get to you, Jack.

Your input is much appreciated here even we don’t always agree with your opinions. Just ignore these serial complainers.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Oops… "even IF", I mean to say.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

"Flowers of Edinborough", "Dick Gossip’s", maybe "The High Reel"

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

What about Donegal tunes? Do they count?

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

"What about Donegal tunes? Do they count?"

Many of them certainly do. But in a place with such a strong musical tradition of its own, there are bound to be a lot of tunes that were composed in Donegal, by Donegal musicians.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

…What I mean by that is, there are a lot of tunes in the Donegal repertoire that are very obviously versions of Scottish tunes, but there are probably also a lot of tunes that are just Donegal tunes.

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Och, Dick, I started one ages ago, but I ran out of of time, so it became one of many, many long-term projects which will be completed one day. Here’s a quick list of some lesser-known ones:

The Bog Carrot (Captain Francis Wemyss)
Danny Meehan’s (Rachel Rae)
The Moving Bogs (Rachel Rae)
The College Groves (Miss Corbett’s Reel)
Davy Maguire’s (Kafoozalum)
Eileen Curran (Lady Dalrymple (North Berwick’s) Strathspey)
Highland A’Choille (Loudon’s Bonnie Woods)
Lucky In Love (I’ll Gang Nae Mair to Yon Town)
Paddy Murphy’s Wife (Mr Menzies of Culdare)
Cat In the Corner, The (Lady Charlotte Murray’s Favourite
Game Cock, The (Captain Francis Wemyss)
Jolly Corkonian, The (The Hills of Glenorchy)
Maho Snaps, The (Dumfries House)
Mick Duggan’s Slide (The Lovat Scouts)
Off To the Hunt (Kissed Yestreen, or O As I Was Kissed Yestreen)
Tailor’s Thimble, The (Banks of the Allan)

Re: looking for a list of tunes played in irish sessions that were originally Scottish

Kilfenora - the root tune, The Chorus Jig, is labelled ‘Irish’ in early Scottish publications, but who knows? It’s all a big soup.