Double dotting

Double dotting

At a session the other night, some lunatic was banging on at me about double dotting before he left - however he refused to tell me the meaning of what he was jabbering about before he left the pub. Any ideas? It was definitely double dotting and not ‘stopping’. I play the accordion (apparently with some double dots)!?.

Re: Double dotting

He was probably trying to tell you you were swinging the tunes too much for his taste, i.e. playing them like humpty dumpty instead of a bit more smoothed out. I suggest recording yourself and having a critical listen to your own playing to see if he has a point.

Re: Double dotting

A dose of LSD, impregnated into a small, hard, spherical pill, usually weighing around 9mg, is known as a microdot. Double dotting has been known to make people jabber.

Re: Double dotting

Cheers Dow, amazing how clear and concise a rational person can be in the space of two sentences. Have recorded, I’m happy enough. I did ask at the time and nobody else was bothered by anything I was doing so alls good. Any chance of posting a couple of youtube clips to illustrate the difference? I gathered it was something to do with style, but I still don’t understand the exact description of ‘double dotting’ i.e. what it specifically refers to/comes from.

Re: Double dotting

it is about courtesy , it is session etiquette to follow the person who started the tune.
I prefer hornpipes heavily dotted, if someone else starts and plays them undotted i follow them or do not play, i expect the same courtesy, i do not expect someone to try and alter thee rythym or speed it up , unfortunately not everyone at sessions listen to the player who started the tune.

Posted .

Re: Double dotting

I’d certainly agree Dick, but it was a set I was leading that apparently caused the annoyance and I didn’t play a hornpipe all night.

Re: Double dotting

It’s a musical term referring to the length of the note, i.e. two dots instead of one, which increases the note length by half as much again. He probably just heard the phrase, and wanted to use it on whoever was nearby.

Posted by .

Re: Double dotting

did you play a polka ?

or better still what did you play ?

Re: Double dotting

I think it was a culmination but the straw which broke the camels back consisted of The Maids of Mount Cisco/The Humours of Ballyconnell/Doctor Gilbert’s.

Re: Double dotting

Don’t get your pants in a twist,. It’s a session. Things like this happen all the time. Brush it off and do your best.

What kind of an accordion do you play? That could be the problem…

Re: Double dotting

It’s impossible to know for certain what he meant. But if he was going off theory then it’s what gam said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckJK0HRCZpA

@ 0:42 "The dot increases the value of the note by half of its own value. The second dot adds half of the value of the first dot."

Posted by .

Re: Double dotting

What Dow and Gam said. However, since this was a session, and presumably you were playing Irish traditional music, double dotted notes should have not have been mentioned, as you wouldn’t have been playing from sheet music. He should have said something like "You might want to play those notes a little longer (or shorter) like this: [demonstrates]." Then, if he just had to say "double dotted," he could say something like, "Traditional playing can be really hard to notate, but it would be pretty close to a double dotted quarter note — the equivalent of a quarter note plus an eighth note plus a sixteenth note. But really, just play it like this."

Wikipedia has more about note dotting than any musician will ever need; all the more reason he should have just said, "play it like this."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dotted_note

* Do people still say crotchet + quaver + semiquaver in polite company? I have since childhood wanted to work "quasihemidemisemiquaver" into conversation. If your double dotty guy had nattered on at me, I would have.

Re: Double dotting

I agree with Tracie, double dotted notes do exist in written music, but the term is so foreign to an understanding of Irish music that a person using the term in a session is well on their way to earning status as a "numptie."
(Ever since this website introduced me to the term "numptie," I have been eager to use it in conversation, and I think this is my chance!)
๐Ÿ˜‰

Re: Double dotting

Al Brown: "Ever since this website introduced me to the term "numptie"

Scottish vernacular, I believe …

Singular: "numpty" - (short for numbskull)

Plural: "numpties" … ๐Ÿ˜‰

Re: Double dotting

The OED only lists ‘numpty’ (with possible link to ‘numbskull’, though uncertain), but ‘numptie’ would possibly be more Scottish.

Re: Double dotting

I’ve sussed it, this poor lunatic, numpty , half deaf fellow has a speech impediment, he wasn’t saying "Double dot" he was just trying to pronounce your name…

the A Part of Dr. Gilbert’s on the B/C does lend itself to taking the corners kinda wide (maybe even running out onto the grass from time to time), but never to the extent you would say it was double dotted.

Re: Double dotting

double dotted = heavily swung.

Re: Double dotting

just like a car driving into a wall = rapidly stopped

Re: Double dotting

So, I have proved myself to be a numpty by my inability to spell! ๐Ÿ˜‰

Re: Double dotting

Double Dotting is usually encountered when Classical composers/arrangers are trying to notate Scottish tunes, Strathspeys in particular.

Because to get the "lift" in Strathspeys the normal ratio of a dotted note to the cut note that follows 3:1 is insufficient.

Good Highland pipers hold the dotted note and cut the cut note much more than that, the dotted note occupying nearly the whole time for the two notes, the cut note being reduced to a split-second note almost like a gracenote.

In fact when I was notating a Strathspey on a computer music program (which robotically plays whatever you write with mathematical precision) I discovered that for some portions of the Strathspey I had to use a full-length note for the dotted note followed by a mere gracenote to get it to sound "right".

Re: Double dotting

I should mention that not all dotted notes in a Scottish Strathspey are held that long, only the ones on major beats.

Usually notes on the offbeats are dotted less, often approaching the normal 3:1 ratio.

The goal being Strong weak Medium weak, the stronger the beat is, the more it is dotted, in general.