Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

……Surely they should sit back and listen and try and learn something if that’s possible

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

especially them folk guitarists who think trad is easy and play the wrong really loudly throughout the tune

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Because they’re crap musicians.

"Surely they should sit back and listen and try and learn something"

They should, of course, but then they’d no longer be crap musicians.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Well asking a question about a group of people will never get you a definite answer, but if you’re trying to start some sort of hate thread I suggest you stop, this site is about music, not spewing hate about ANY sort of musician.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

With all due respect Aaron Scott, I don’t know if this is actually hate thread or a genuine question (I could of course be wrong) but as outlandish as this question sounds I think it is a real problem in ITM. People seem to think that if a traditional session, spontanious or otherwise, sets up then it is a free for all. This, of course, is the case sometimes but by no means all the time! It brings about the question of session etiquette, a person should ALWAYS ask permission to join a session. A session is not just about music it is very much a social occassion too, friends meeting up, swapping tunes, stories and craic! People need to realise what level the session is at and decide, intellengently, of it is abouve them or not. People need to respect the music and the people playing in the session because sitting in where you’re ability is woefully below the standard of the session and below the standard of the musicians and musicianship of the session ruins all enjoyment for all involved. If in doubt, stay the hell out!!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

The only thing I could tell you is if there’s a bad musician in the group, tell him to leave, there are no rules to sessions and if you tried to make any you’d be laughed out of the pub. Don’t overthink it too much, kay? ;)

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"It brings about the question of session etiquette, a person should ALWAYS ask permission to join a session"

Wha? Really? Any session where I have to ask to join is one that I’m probably not going to come back to.

"especially them folk guitarists who think trad is easy and play the wrong really loudly throughout the tune"

I’ve played wrong chords before. Sometimes on purpose. I’ll switch to another chord if it doesn’t sound right (or if someone else is playing chordal stuff), but playing "wrong" chords means that you can get some nice sexy harmony by accident.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I for one have NEVER asked to join a session

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Wrong chords are wrong chords.There is no harmony

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

@DrugCrazed: maybe you’re who this thread is about.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Because their parents were mean to them as children. No, that’s not right… it’s because they all had a bad day at work, and they are taking it out on the people at the session. Eh, that’s probably not right either.

I wouldn’t quite say that this is a "hate thread," but it’s certainly not a legitimate question. Mostly because no one can answer a question asking why a certain group of people "always" do something, if in fact they "always" do that. I would characterize this as more of a "rant thread." Which is fine, I suppose, we all have things we need to get off our chest from time to time. I’d suggest the best way for the OP to get the answer, if it is a real question, is simply to ask one of the crap musicians. It’s bound to go well. 🙂

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

It is is not always about someone’s capabilities as a a musician. There are many people who know their own limitations and who understand how the session works and who would not dream of ‘destroying’ anything. The problems arise sometimes (not all the time otherwise why would we bother with playing in sessions) when an individual or group of people a) do not understand what the specific session is, and b) are musically very insensitive. The former can include very good musicians. When you get a combination of both factors, it is a recipe for disaster, but generally things can be amicably pointed out without rudeness or someone’s feelings getting hurt.

There is an onus on the established participants playing in a public session to be as welcoming as possible, whilst explaining gently, how things work to newcomers. We save the exclusivity for the kitchen table sessions.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Here is another serious reply, just cause I’m bored…

When i worked in restaurants, people often complimented me for my manners and courtesy. These people always assumed that my manners expressed a good upbringing and a bit of intelligence to go along with it.

I’m glad that these "manners" saved my butt one day from an embarrassment I may not have ever lived down ….

I was at a very popular session the have once a year after a special Celtic music festival. A few big names had got together, and they were leading the session. I was unaware of this at first; (I had only been exposed to "anyone lead" sessions.)
The crowd was so big, and there were so many different instruments, and I’m just dieing to start a set of tunes I knew, cause I didn’t know a lot of what the were playing. But instead of pouncing on the next break between sets, I whispered to my fiddle teacher, "So umm… Are they leading this?" He gave me a stern nod, and look of, "Yes, yes THEY are." In that moment I knew that i would definitely not be my place to start a set.

It would’ve been a nice night of listening, but quite unfortunately, I got a really bad toothache and had to leave early. It would’ve been a great listening experience though. People should learn to listen.

My point, some people just aren’t intelligent enough to know how to interact with people.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Well said eiluned. I think you hit the nail on the head there. I was possibly a little rantish this morning (yawn) but what i was trying to get accross was basically what you just said! That is the problem exactly! If the world of ITM had more people like fiddlelearner then mayby sessions would be all th better for it.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

No no, you don’t need more me’s lol. My issue is, I’ve never had stage fright + I love criticism like a friend…. I’d turn a session into workshop xD Then the complaint would be "Why do crap musicians always try to turn sessions into private lessons? Go home and find a teacher you noob!"

See, I have a sense of humor :D

A legitimate question, but "crap" could be left out of it.

"….there are no rules to sessions…." Of course there are rules. Not stated, but as with any other social occasion, rules nonetheless.
It is a legitimate question. Many musicians don’t know the rules. Apparently Aaron Scott, despite being a multi-instrumentalist (I’m a Great Highland Bagpiper in Aughintober pipe band as well as an Uilleann piper, Flutist, Mandolinist, Guitarist, and folk singer.) is one of them: "I for one have NEVER asked to join a session."
If there are four or five musicians, all of whom know each other and have obviously played together before, then it is only polite to ask if you may join them. This is assuming that you have a comparable level of accomplishment in the music. If there are ten or fifteen or twenty people all playing away then it’s safe to just take a seat and join in, without asking.
And as an aside, good musicians can also ruin a session. By playing too loud, by playing obscure tunes too often and too long, by being rude or obnoxious, by playing in unfriendly or awkward keys.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

If it’s a session where I don’t know anyone, I ALWAYS ask if it’s ok to sit in and play along on the tunes I know. It’s just common courtesy.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

" good musicians can also ruin a session."

I’m glad somebody said this as I was reading this thread on the bus home and threatening to post something similar.

There’s nothing actually wrong with being a "crap musician".
Not everyone is going to be at the same level. It’s the "ruining" of the session which is the issue and anyone can be capable of that if they don’t possess the right manners or have a basic knowledge of session etiquette. It’s equally important to know when NOT to play.

Of course, you should always ask to join a session if you are visiting for the first time unless it’s a large communal affair. Some are private whereas others may only have a limited amount of space.
Usually, I’ll politely ask if it’s OK, promise just to play the tunes I know(or can manage to pick up fairly well), and offer to give up my seat if a regular musician needs it. I have never had any problem although I’m usually sensible enough to judge the situation first.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Well said David! You know your stuff! You mentioned that:

"good musicians can also ruin a session. By playing too loud, by playing obscure tunes too often and too long, by being rude or obnoxious, by playing in unfriendly or awkward keys."

The playing too loud part is undoubtedly true, however, it may be because of people joining into sessions which are not for them that the musicians have to revert to "playing obscure tunes too often and too long…by playing in unfriendly or awkward keys" just to try and re-gain some enjoyment of the session they started and has now been over run by 10 Aaron Scotts! (No offense inteded Aaron, just using you as an example)

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

You’ll forgive me for asking… but are "John McSera" and "Progressive Death Metal" related by any chance??

Alter egos?? The straight and the bent banana?

Carry on…

Posted .

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

This conversation (and the others I’ve seen here like it) are precisely why I will probably never join a session. 1)I’d never presume myself good enough to have anything to contribute, 2)I’d be constantly nervous I’d be holding others back or annoying them in some fashion, 3)I haven’t a clue about the "rules".

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Tradmadguy, I once was at a session with a great fiddler, a great (keyless) flute player, and myself (definitely not great) on whistle. The fiddler kept starting tunes in keys hard or essentially impossible to play on D flute / whistle, turning much of the session into a solo performance. I guess I can understand deciding I’m so bad I should be cut out of the session, but I suspect there were at least 500 tunes they both knew that I didn’t. Cutting out the flute player too just destroyed any crack the session might have had.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

It’s been said before around here that a session is like a conversation with people conversing with instruments instead of words. The same social etiquette applies.

If you’re at the pub with your pals and a stranger walks up to you and buts into your conversation and just ends up talking about what he wants to talk about you’ll soon want them to leave. If you’re playing in a session and someone walks up and just starts playing whatever it is they want to play while you were in the middle of a session you’d soon want them to leave.

If you’re chatting with your pals and someone says "sorry I overheard you talking about…" and wants to talk about what you’re talking about you’d be more willing to let them join in your conversation. If you’re at a session playing and someone walks up and asks if they can sit in on a few tunes you’d be more willing to let them than if they just started playing what they felt like it.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

It’s more about common courtesy than rules. How would you behave if you were invited to have dinner with a friend and their family? The same rules apply…

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Nix my last post, deltasalmon just gave a much better analogy 🙂

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"crap musicians"… like those supposed bodhran players who think all the tunes sound the same?
https://thesession.org/discussions/32433

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

At least, it’s mildly entertaining Rev 🙂

Not least, all these folks above who take themselves far too seriously..

There really is a kinda culture gap in world humour 🙂

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

It’s a wonderful dream to have a session where everything clicks, and everyone who carries in an instrument would be at par or better with the musicians already there. This does happen every once in a while. And it’s a wonderful fantasy to imagine that this will continue to happen without work, or that it happens elsewhere without work. The problem of disruptors is, in my opinion, not due to "crap" musicians, but to those in the session who don’t have a clear idea of what the session is supposed to be and how to going about realizing that goal. If the session is good, then by definition people will want to be part of it, either as listeners or as participants. So you should expect people who play music to want to join. Of course they would! There should be no surprise there. Now, the reason you will have musicians who are of insufficient caliber not just wanting to, but actually trying to participate is that they don’t understand that their participation is unwelcome. If you have an open session, then it’s the responsibility of the session leaders to figure out a way of dealing with blow-ins who disrupt the session — open sessions will have lots of disrupting influences over the years, as everyone already knows. No surprise there. Maybe you need a slow session in the area to help raise the caliber of these disruptors? Maybe you need a closed session or a session in someone’s house? Of course, if it is a closed session then that too needs to be made clear to people who walk in with instruments. Maybe you need a bouncer? 🙂 This is not really complicated stuff.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Jeez, Eddie, let the kids have their fun. Stop trying to bring reason to the internet. 🙂

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Oh, my bad. Thanks Alex! ;)

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Why do crap ceili band "arrangements" always ruin perfectly good tunes?

Posted .

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Not very happy looking souls in the video and the audience don’t look too cheerful either.

I’d probably ruin your session by smiling too much.
🙂

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Q: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

A: Because its far more comfortable than standing?

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I, for one, am more than a little grateful that some fine musicians, and fine people, all well known around County Clare, kindly and patiently allowed this "crap musician" to join their regular sessions. I’m a much better player for it in every way. Thanks guys! Much can be said for sitting back, listening, and learning. Still the final step is to play with better musicians, make the mistakes, and come out the other end better for it.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Because their mothers didn’t train them properly.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I would guess that most of us were relatively crap musicians when we first attended sessions. Thank God for the patience and fortitude of the the others round the table who didn’t immediately show me the door.

There’s no excuse for the kind of selfish behavior that seems to be part of some players’ makeup.

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Are you asking about one big crap, John, or are you talking about many craps?

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?"

Maybe its because of the fact that the session is perfectly good, so you notice them?

More likely it’s partially because all of the sessions that aren’t perfectly good have either been discontinued, or are already run over crap musicians. They see the good ones, hear how good they sound, and want to be a part of the fun! (can you blame them?)

Of course, that’s along with much of the reasoning spoken above.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"crap"… "craic"… hard of hearing? hard of thinking? hardly worth the bother.

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Going by the previous thread from Mr McSera, this is also a wind-up. As a friend of mine was saying, it’s actually good to have a bit of craic on the board now and again. It’s the classic tactic of saying something controversial, sitting back and watching the fun begin. Surely it’s no coincidence that Sera is an anagram of a**e.
Anyway, regarding the point made about people not asking before they join a session, it’s the height of bad manners. Even if there are 15 or 20 people sat around playing, I would still ask one of them if it’s OK to join in.

Also, most people at sessions play instruments, but few are musicians.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Welcome back, Conan - and I think you’re right, it’s no coincidence.

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Every good musician is somebody else’s crap musician…

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I’m putting that on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker, Theirlandais!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

On another note, who’s the best: Frankie Gavin or Ronaldo?

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Lol,

Mcsera, after some investigation…

It has been discovered that u truly the crapiest musician on this post. Have a nice day.

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I think a sweepstake might be in order. We’ve so far had (paraphrasing a little):

* all tunes sound the same, plus a backhanded swipe at bodhrán players, in the first thread
* crap musicians (impliedly not the OP) are wrecking my session

All takers for what’s next? I’m voting for "all guitarists are rubbish". 🙂

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Frankie Gavin is more like Messi - Ronaldo is more like Eileen Ivers - Soft touch vs power

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

As for me - I’m more like Luis Suarez - I bit the last bodhran player that sat next to me…

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Ben,

Apart from the fact that the OP is doing a great disservice to Arigna, I’ll go for ‘Do I need to practice with a metronome to learn this song on my bodhrán?’

What is this word ‘impliedly’? 🙂

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I don’t know - it’s up for discussion. I mean Frankie’s prowess as a wide receiver is legendary, but can he really match up to Ronaldo’s skills with a 5 iron?
Although for sheer guts, I have to go for Niamh Parsons. Jumping out of that balloon with her spacesuit on took some nerve. Apparently she was singing "The Boys of Barr na Sraide" all the way down, although you couldn’t hear the first three verses.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

You make a compelling argument Conan - however, if the links are in Norn Iron, I like Frankie’s chances with the 5 iron - Ronaldo is no mudder on the race track.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Impliedly. Adv. By implication or inference.

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

JNE, I will defer to your experience and wisdom in matters sporting and otherwise!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Sorry, Ben,

Forgot about that one.

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Re: Why do crap posters always ….

Why do crap posters always jump into a potentially interesting thread and ruin it with lame attempts at humor?

They would probably ruin a session.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

A crap musician walked into a bar …

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Potentially interesting my Sera

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I had a few crap posters on my wall as a youngster. Right between Farrah Fawcet and Thin Lizzy.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Up Arigna!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

we have a person around here… whew… sessions have been thrown out of pubs because of their ‘playing’. The person has been thrown out of slow sessions, I’ve personally told them they are w/o a hint music in their being and that they inflict their tortured sounds on us. To no avail, they haven’t a clue even when you try to hand them one. This has been going on with this person for 20 years.

Another case is a child prodigy, now all grown p, great at the instrument of choice, I love to listen, but at a session this person turns their chair to exclude the rest of the session, to the point of starting a sub session with their trio.

both cases equally disruptive.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

What, no mention of out of tune, resonator enhanced, hard pick wielding, rhythmically challenged, insult prone, drunken tenor banjoists wrecking sessions?

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Unionpiper, in the first situation the session needs to bar the individual from playing. It does however need to be diplomatic. By that I mean the sentence must be carried out by one of two people. If the session has a designated host he or she is the one person. If the session has two hosts it comes down to which one is present on a given night. If the session has more than two hosts, or no hosts, this ‘clueless’ person will most likely continue taking advantage of the situation.

The second case sounds like anti-social behaviour, obviously disruptive of the session, but if the trio’s that good why not kill the session & let them perform?

😏

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

All this trash talk and not a single mention of Cork vs Clare in the Hurly finals?

Re: Why do trash talkers always sit into perfectly good blah blah blah?

Mr. Eejit, need I remind you The Mustard are now a civil people?

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

The Mustard - I like that. Groupings that are both singular and plural in their form. Like the Sheep or the Fish.

The Mustard & The Finals

Be that as it may one thing is obvious.

Clare!

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Sheep and Fish both go well with Mustard.

It seems to me that the real question is why do some folks feel they know enough to classify and denigrate others (at sessions or otherwise). Yeah some poor musicians show up and yeah they can disrupt. But only if they show up repeatedly and continue to only disrupt have we any right to be concerned about it…at least in an open session. We can help them, we can encourage improvement, we can suggest solutions to their problems, and we can do whatever else might be positive. But if the session is an open one we can’t classify them as crap instantaneously and reject them. Yes, something needs to be quietly said to those without a clue, but those are at all levels (see below).

I recall a truly awful guitar player who played wrong chords (not variant chords, WRONG chords) loudly with great lack of steady rhythm. I ducked her in many gatherings. Recently I sat near her and discovered, wonder of wonders, that she is playing right chords with better rhythm. Style was still lacking (this was not ITM) but lots of growth. So, should she have been rejected?

I was listening to a couple of fine players (hammered dulcimer and mandolin) play some Eastern European stuff when a truly bad dulcimer player showed up with an out of tune instrument and proceeded to bang away without much sense of anything. At the end of the piece the good dulcimer player turned to the bad one and said "it sounds like your instrument might need some tuning. Let me help with that." And he did. He tuned her instrument, suggested another group she might enjoy more, and sent her on her way. There’s a lesson there.

What about the good players, like the one mentioned above, who play tune after tune that no one in the session knows?? Doesn’t that destroy things? Sessions are living social organisms. We can help to feed and water the session or we can deny it what it needs to survive. We can do that regardless of our abilities.

In sum why do ANY musicians sit in perfectly good sessions? Because they are good. What destroys a good session? All sorts of things, and the quality of the player is only a part of it. What is needed is the intelligence to approach the session in a sensible way. With that, we can all get along. And that intelligence is not limited to the fine players.

Re: OP plus Session Monsters and Trolls

@ cboody;
You have the whole thing there except the ‘Session Queen’.

I most dread these individuals, because they tend to have a couple of weapons with which to murder innocent and heretofore happy Irish tunes. The usual scenario is a gap in the session. Then before anybody can get going the Queen will attack a tune far far too hard for most folks, and mostly these outbursts are done to a Fiddle. Her Majesty nearly always destroys Coleman tune/s, and depending on the size of her ego, she may go from one to the next and so on. The Morning Dew, Lucy Campbell, etc, with not a care for the people around her who have to suffer the out of tune screeching, bad timing and the rest of it. Her Highness will go on and on and on, but never a word said by anyone that she should ‘bleepedy bleep’ and go take Violin lessons to learn the basics of playing her instrument. Another aspect of the Queen syndrome is not being able to perform simpler tunes such as The Silver Spear or Sally Gardens etc. But then, when done murdering the music on the Fiddle some of these Queens pick up the next instrument of tune torture. In my most recent, and painful, travels it was an Accordion. And ‘bleep’ did this moron get it wrong. Just like the abomination of Coleman settings, and like all Queens, plays too fast, bad or nearly no tempo, pickup notes nonexistent or abused, and is insulted when I try to get in on it and slow things down. ‘bleepidy bleep slow down ya ‘bleep’! I am thinking as I wind up my TW and try to save the poor tune!

Not a chance!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"Any session where I have to ask to join is one that I’m probably not going to come back to."

Must have never been asked to join a session.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Ah well - I had been dreaming of one day, years hence, being good enough to fiddle at a session. But now, after reading half of these scornful remarks & especially Makadan’s strictures on ‘The Queen’, I’ll just hide away in my bedroom and never go for the opportunity. It’s a wonder traditional music recruits any new players…

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

The great majority of crap musicians know they are crap and accord themselves in an appropriate manner in a session. As such they are tolerated or even welcomed.

The problem comes with these guys who don’t know they are crap and wouldn’t believe it even if you told them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

And what of those not-too-crap musicians who through nerves & self-doubt *fear* that they are crap? Is there any pro-active sharing & welcoming into the ITM music community? Oh, I hope so - and one or two posts above seem to indicate that not all sessions players are over-judgmental.
Mollie

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Fiddle Aunt, I think a little dose of self-doubt goes a long way in making you acceptable to most sessions. It’s the overconfident who do the damage.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Oh, and C’mon the Banner!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"But now, after reading half of these scornful remarks & especially Makadan’s strictures on ‘The Queen’, I’ll just hide away in my bedroom and never go for the opportunity."

I hope you change your mind, Fiddle Aunt. I don’t think the kind of ‘Session Queen’ (be they male, female, straight or curly) that Makadan is talking about would ever entertain those kind of thoughts.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Its the old LCW problem again……..

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Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"And what of those not-too-crap musicians who through nerves & self-doubt *fear* that they are crap?"

Mollie, everyone and their dog has self-doubt and fears they are crap. 🙂

Anyway, the key is in recognising where you fit into a session. If you are a beginnery player, don’t go to what seems to be a high-ish level session and start ragged set after ragged set because you are afraid of not playing. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the music, and hey, they might ask you to start a set. Likewise, if you are a high-ish level player, don’t show up at the local slowish beginner-friendly session and proceed to crank through set after set of obscure Gm tunes.

When I visit a new session, I hang back and pay attention to the way the tunes are being played, what tunes are being played, and the whole social dynamic of the session. I might spend the entire night hiding in the back and just quietly playing along to the tunes I know. I might start a set or two if asked. Or maybe the session is short of melody players that night and wow, they’re lucky I showed up, ‘cause I can lead a bunch of a sets. I may go to a session and think, "Hey, I bet these people know some of these really obscure tunes I play. I’ll try them out." Or I’ll think, "I’d better play the Silver Spear and the Earl’s Chair if I don’t want this to be a w a nky set of solo tunes."

You just have to be able to figure out what’s going on in the session and ‘Bob’s yer uncle.’

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Thanks, Joe, CreadurMawnOrganig, & DrSilverSpear, for your kindly posts. Right, I’ll set to & should be ready in another five years!
Live long & prosper. 🙂
Mollie

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Have you tried asking the crap musician?

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Because they are mostly obnoxious types who are usually bigger than the rest of us and nobody has the guts to tell them to stop. I once saw a guy try to accompany a fiddle player with a set of spoons. The fiddle player was playing a slow air at the time. Didn’t really work but nobody said anything. I’m afraid I’ve long since given up the ghost on trying to reason with some of the characters that life spawns.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

My experience is, it’s not because they are obnoxious or physically threatening that people don’t have the guts to speak to them, it’s because people don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings, or discourage them, or because of a philosophy that a session should be open to anybody.

I have found myself speaking to musicians, both mainly accompanists, after the last two sessions, asking them not to play when they don’t know the tune, not to start trying to work out the chords while the rest of us are playing, maybe just to sit and listen the first time through.

I tried to be as tactful as possible, I spoke to them both individually and not in front of the group, and both of them seemed to accept what I said, and said they would act on it, but I could see that they were upset, and I am also upset myself by these interactions. But I am more upset by having lovely music ruined, these people look like they intend to keep coming, and so on balance I decided to act.

I wouldn’t say either of these people were crap musicians. They are musical enough when they play what they can play. It does puzzle me though that they don’t realise for themselves that it’s unacceptable to plonk out wrong notes and duff chords while everybody else is playing (more or less) correctly.

Posted .

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Good post. That accurately reflects some of my experiences. The bottom line for me is that one person who seems unable to exercise proper judgement should not be allowed to wreck the evening for everyone else, and certainly shouldn’t be allowed to cash in on our niceness!

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I do not mind crap musicians if they play quietly and unobtrusively and are trying to listen.

Posted .

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

I’m in total agreement with Steve Shaw on this.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Maybe crap musicians should buy iPad apps and play with themselves with one head phone?

Is that how we are to pass the tradition?

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Judge not or you have already been judged

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"Fiddle Aunt, I think a little dose of self-doubt goes a long way in making you acceptable to most sessions. It’s the overconfident who do the damage."
Posted by joe fidkid

Agreed. I think Steve’s advice is also spot on.

Actually, my experience has been interesting. When I was still a rank beginner, I happened to show up for a session where there were only two other people. I usually sat away from the core group and did my best to keep up. (I asked what the protocol was at my first visit and was told I could play along and ask names of tunes occasionally). Anyway, one of the two people asked me to start a tune. I was so nervous, I absolutely destroyed a tune I knew inside and out. I apologized. They were beyond helpful, told me that I should just never apologize for my music and went on to give me some stellar advice.

The worst experience I had was when my neighbors asked if they could visit a session with me. I said "sure, but it would be best if your husband didn’t bring his guitar and play along; this isn’t a jam session."

They were driving, so they picked me up and it was clear hubby was drunk as a skunk and trouble was ahead. His guitar was in the vehicle. His wife said: "you’re not bringing that into the pub". He flashed a wavy/sloshed grin. During the session, he went to the vehicle, brought in the guitar (sans case), propped it up with a chair and proceeded to whoop and holler while stomping off tempo. The vibration knocked his guitar over … making a crash that threw everyone off beat. He then picked up this tortured instrument and proceeded to play out of tune nonsense Jerry Garcia wannabe style until his wife got him to stop by practically wrestling him to the ground.

Fortunately, another friend at the session drove me home and the husband has orders not to come anywhere near me or the sessions.

Honestly, had I been a witness to all of this, instead of an embarrassed participant, I would have laughed my arse off and been able to enjoy some serious good comedy. Instead … it was pure torture for me.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

would it be alright if a crap musician (who knew he or she was a crap musician) sat in and just played very quietly?

Re: McSera’s Folly?

Cheers, Lindsay. This is a "crap" discussion as it’s based on a silly premise.
If you’re concerned that you’re not good enough a player to jump into playing at the best sessions then you’re showing you have respect for the music & are very likely a good listener. The best players, best people, best listeners in a session will respect you for this & return it in kind.

Posted by .

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

This thread is demeaning and vulgar. And I am weary of having to see this unpleasant C word every time I hit the site. Brothers and Sisters, you have total control over your session and if you don’t think someone is up to session level, just find a way to nicely tell him or her. Most struggle with that inner voice telling us we are not good enough for the session. Some may cautiously, after much work, try to dip a toe in but then fall apart due to stage fright. Be nice Mr. Sera, please. Be Father Ted not Fr. Hackett. These are fellow musicians. God Bless the Musician.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

"Must have never been asked to join a session."

There was once when I was asked whether I was getting my guitar out and joining, so ended up playing with 4 people I didn’t know since the session I was looking for had moved pubs (and nobody told me). But in that case, I wouldn’t call it a session. 4 people playing music together shouldn’t be intruded on without permission, because it’s obviously an intimite thing.

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Don’t be a priest at all, priests are awful people, you must have something badly wrong with you to want to fill people’s heads with that sort of crap.

Posted .

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Hey, Bjarne, are you by any chance related to Falsk Brugernavn?

Re: Why do crap "musicians" always sit into perfectly good sessions and destroy them?

Well at yesterday’s gig at a local venue we had a friend (drunk) virtually insist on coming up and sitting in. He didn’t bother to really ask. Then had a fit when his wireless violin set up wouldn’t work just handed the soundman a bunch of wires and said "here hook me up" from this incident nobody will sit in with us. Ever.