What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Bear in mind donegal fiddling is my fav style and apparently they use less ornamentation altho on average I havent found this to be the case really. Johnny boy would ornament all voer the place.

Anyway whats the least I could do while still having a tune sound good? I like to hear a good pulsing hypnotic beat and intonation rather than the clutter of ornamentation all over the place like you’d hear from one of the comhaltas showboats.

With that in mind what could be some general rules? Maybe just one or two per part?

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

A tune, played well and musically with good rhythm, can sound just fine with zero ornamentation. And a tune that doesn’t sound good without ornamentation isn’t going to sound better with.

Don’t look for rules, just enjoy your playing, concentrate on rhythm, and if you try ornaments, make sure they sound right before you start trying to stick them in everywhere.

My advice: Listen, listen, listen - and then make up your own blinking mind. 🙂 MUYOFM!

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Here is an example of some wonderful groovy playing that I would say makes light use of ornamentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6qSHHnTm0


The CD, "Ego Trip", is fantastic.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I like that playing too, and Paddy Glackin is using more ornamentation than I think you think he is, plus he is varying it - not much, granted, but there’s variation in there.

But I’ve heard players playing with well nigh no ornamentation at all, and sounding ‘proper’ indeed. So much depends on the player. Which I guess is another way of saying what Mr Stones just said.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I use lots of ornamentation myself but that’s because I aim at Sligo style. Unlike Arthur I seem to have less to think about when I use a lot of slurring and left hand ornamentation, to the degree that its just all the tune to me. I actually find it harder to play just so-called straight bowing. I do practice it so that I can develop my bowing speed and clarity, but I generally do this on tunes that I wouldn’t want to play Sligo style. I find the Shetland stuff good for this (say, The Shetland Fiddler). Aly Bain’s stuff works well for me. As I’ve mentioned on this site before, I don’t personally enjoy his style (and no more hot water please guys) but I do listen and imitate just for developing clean bowing. But that’s just for practice. If I can’t make something sound Irish I don’t keep it. If you like Donegal fiddling I reckon that Brid Harper has about what you’d be looking for (Johny Doherty being in the untouchable God class).

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Hah, what is all this hot water? seems like im late to the party and missed the controversy 🙂. Some flaming is always a bit of fun I think :p

Ye brid sounds great but Id also put her in the untouchable god class as well.

Johnny boy is actually one of my least favourite donegallers, too much fancy ornamentation and too fast for my tastes. Prefer john byrne type tho i definitely don’t like to swing as much as he does as he plays his reels like hornpipes!

But its a case of picking and choosing what you like I think as you guys are telling em there is no rules 🙂.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Banjo- and mandolin-players manage with hardly any ornamentation. There’s no reason why a fiddle should be any different.

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Arthur, I agree with your appraisal of Brid, she’s the best, but at least I can always follow what she’s doing. I’ve so often listened to John Doherty and thought, " No…that’s just not possible!". I think there are two main things about ornamentation. The first thing is to focus on the regional style that you prefer, and the second (or equally first) is to get the pulse right and don’t use any embellishment that trips it up.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

To add to the other thoughts without disagreeing with any: I think part of the issue, as I think I’ve posted before, depends on what you call ornamentation.

There are many ways to vary that I think many fine players use that are not "the twiddly bits." Some examples of what I mean: replacing c2e with cde in a jig, or replacing g2g with g3 (or vice versa), or replacing G3 with GFG or. or…. well you get the idea. Not twiddly bits, but certainly within the realm of ornamentation if you define the term that way.

A listener might not always recognize those alterations immediately as "ornaments," or indeed might not even notice the changes quickly because in the hands of a fine player they flow so smoothly. I’m not knowledgable enough about all the fine players to be sure, but my feeling is that they all use this sort of change all the time, even if they don’t do much of the twiddly sort of thing.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Why do you think it’s important to focus on a regional style Gobby?

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Well some do it all with the bow;- e.g., Donegal, while some do the ornamentation more with the left hand, e.g., Sligo. I also think of a joke that kids did back when I was one myself (centuries ago). They pulled the corner of their eyes upwards and said, “Chinese”, then the pulled their the corner of their eyes downward and said, “Japanese”, and then they pulled one eye up and one eye down and said, “Crazy mixed up kid”. Politically incorrect now, I know but back in those days of innocence it wasn’t. But my point is that if you are talking ornamentation, or how to do it, you should be one thing or another (and not a crazy mixed up kid). I realise some may disagree and that much of the old regional styles are disappearing and maybe I’m biased because for some reason that only God could know, (cause I certainly don’t) Sligo style just comes naturally to me while Donegal and Scottish don’t. There are others of course, but so far these are the examples mentioned in this thread.
It was actually the OP that said he liked the Donegal style, and on that I don’t feel like I’m well qualified to answer his question because as much as I love listening to it, I don’t play it.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Well some do it all with the bow;- e.g., Donegal, while some do the ornamentation more with the left hand, e.g., Sligo. I also think of a joke that kids did back when I was one myself (centuries ago). They pulled the corner of their eyes upwards and said, “Chinese”, then the pulled their the corner of their eyes downward and said, “Japanese”, and then they pulled one eye up and one eye down and said, “Crazy mixed up kid”. Politically incorrect now, I know but back in those days of innocence it wasn’t. But my point is that if you are talking ornamentation, or how to do it, you should be one thing or another (and not a crazy mixed up kid). I realise some may disagree and that much of the old regional styles are disappearing and maybe I’m biased because for some reason that only God could know, (cause I certainly don’t) Sligo style just comes naturally to me while Donegal and Scottish don’t. There are others of course, but so far these are the examples mentioned in this thread.
It was actually the OP that said he liked the Donegal style, and on that I don’t feel like I’m well qualified to answer his question because as much as I love listening to it, I don’t play it.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Could have sworn I deleted that repeat posting ??

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Hi Gobby,

The question is why you think it’s important to stick to one (regional) style. It seems to me that even players who actually come from a particular region don’t all play with the same style.

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

@Cboody, I think that you are dead right in your observation, because although I was reluctant to say it, I didn’t think that either of Arthurs tunes were particularly ornamented at all (not from my definition). Neither can I possibly in a million years think that "Johnny Boy" (oh- groan…) overly ornamented, as the OP suggested. The guy was just gobsmackingly brilliant. Just wish I could ever have known him.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Bernie, in the modern age you may well be right, but in the past I doubt it. But for me it’s a matter of focus. I already admitted that I often practice other styles, such as Shetland, but I just do it to hone my bowing skills. When it comes to playing I want to play a style. Othersie where do you stop? For example I Love Scottish music but I want to play Irish, and I want to play iy in a sligo style rather than like a crazy mixed up kid. I just see it as part of the tradition (even nif it’s adying one). Also whatever you choose, consistency is easier and better.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Like people are saying it’s all about the style you’re playing in.

I’ll never forget, back in the 1980s, hearing a Highland fiddler playing in a pub in Fort William (or was it Oban?), Farquar MacRae I think his name was, an older man.

His playing was very plain, without bowed ornaments or finger ornaments, no double-stops, no slurring (all one bow per note). On paper it doesn’t sound like much but his playing was wonderful, in particular his jigs had terrific drive and swing to them.

One usually doesn’t think of American "old-time" fiddling as having much in the way of finger ornamentation but many West Virginia fiddlers do do some very distinctive, characteristic ornaments- I can recognise a West Virginia fiddler straightaway. For for that style, you have to do those ornaments to sound "proper" or at least sound idiomatic.

Getting away from fiddle and talking about Irish flute, there’s very little (oftentimes no) ornamentation in the sense of decorative added bits, rather, the fluteplayers use rolls as a fundamental rhythmic articulation.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I’m not saying you shouldn’t do things the way you want to Gobby, what I’m taking issue with is your suggestion that players in general should focus on a specific regional style of ornamentation. I don’t know how you would identify such a style. I just looked at a potted biography of John Docherty where it was said that he "created a style of working, mostly with strokes of the bow, that gave his playing a sound like no-one else had"!

One of my favourite living fiddlers is Pat O’Connor, who comes from Ennis, County Clare. I lent a CD of his to a knowledgeable friend the other day, and his comment was "not the usual County Clare fiddling, but very likeable".

A quote from an old discussion here, from Michael Gill:

"Every single one of the good players plays in what can only be described as their own style. For that’s at the heart of what this music is about. It’s the expression of ones’ self, through the medium of the tradition."

Posted .

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

None.

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

it could be argued that a tune is only player ‘proper’ without ornamentation…

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

[*it could be argued that a tune is only player ‘proper’ without ornamentation…*]

It’s certainly more difficult to do convincingly.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

@Bernie, of course a good player will develop their own personal style, and indeed that largely happens by how you’d ornament your playing. But what I’m saying is that there still are regional styles, and how you apply ornament IN THE FIRST PLACE, depends on what style you want to play. John Dougherty did a series of recorded interviews where I heard him demonstrate this by comparing his bowing and the variety of names that Donegal players had for the bowing ornamentations, against the way that Michael Coleman would do it with his fingers. These are regional differences. All was suggesting is that in learning, and wanting to economise with your ornamentation it pays to be consistent with a regional style. If you want to play, as the OP suggested, in a Donegal style then you’re going to be using short single bow strokes with with trebling rather than rolls, whereas a Sligo style would generally do it with the fingers (though even within a region players would vary to degree). So I’m nor arguing with you that distinct regional styles are nowadays so obvious or essential to playing. There are lots of people who have developed an instantly recognisable personal style. Just listen to Tommy Potts for example. What I was intending to the OP is that if he wants to play in a Donegal style (which is what he after all identified as his favourite style), then he would not want to be mixing it up and complicating his efforts with other regional ways of doing it. You can’t just start out as Tommy Potts! Others have answered Arthur’s question by correctly saying that you can play a tune well with no ornamentation at all (I find that incredibly difficult to do). But my suggestion was merely that if you want to restrict your ornamentation, then first decide whether you prefer to do it with your bow or your fingers. And all this derives from regional styles. What you do with it after you master it is up to you.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

If you are immersed in the tradition, you can vary the amount of ornamentation as you like and still sound authentic. But if you want to use less ornamentation, it should be because you choose to, not because you have not mastered the ornamentation. Learning the ornamentation, or articulations as some like to call them, is an essential part of learning to be authentic to the tradition.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I think it’s important to be able to control your ornamentation too. In other words, be able to play the bare bone of the tune as well as you do with the ornaments in.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Al: apologies, this is just one of my ‘buttons’. I’m sure I’ll get over it …

… I can’t stand the use of the word "authentic" as applied to … well, almost anything, apart from, say, individual works of art, to distinguish them from being fakes. I do NOT want to either be, or sound, "authentic". I just want to play tunes nicely, in a way that both I and others can enjoy. But mostly, just me. 🙂

Short rant over. Carry on. 🙂

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

The amount that still sounds musical and avoids boring you and your listener(s).

Next.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I’m sure Al means that in a nice way. ‘Authentic’, as in the difference between John Sheehan and André Rieu. Nothing more specific than that.

Cue Mr Ben Eisc to post the video) 🙂

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Al’s a good guy. Hence my apology for my inevitable (I’m afraid) knee-jerk reaction at the start of my post.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Al

No good deed goes unpunished…LOL

I think I knew where you were going with that. I hate when someone grossly over ornaments a tune to the point where the integrity of the tune is lost- or worse you can’t figure out what in the world they are playing. On the other hand, and certainly not one who has mastered this element of my playing, the good players know much and where to use ornament, and preserve the sense of the tune.

I am still at the point of trying to get my play to sound like something, though I am quite happy to get a nice clean version played well. I assure you an irregular occurrance, through getting a bit more frequent.

Re:Give us a tune, eh?

I cannot speak for AlBrown and I certainly don’t intend to put words in anyone’s mouth; but if you mean(t) to say "learning" the various ways to articulate a tune is essential to playing "the tune" I couldn’t agree more.

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I have a particular CD in my collection where the fiddler doesn’t play a single roll, cut, treble,, whatever. Does it sound "Irish"? Indeed it does.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Who’s the fiddler, Jeff?

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Recollecting that John Sheehan and André Rieu video (the Irish Washerwoman one) I got the impression that André Rieu was deliberately acting up as fall guy to John Sheehan’s straight guy - it was TV entertainment, after all.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

"it could be argued that a tune is only player ‘proper’ without ornamentation."
It could be argued that black is white.

Come back Michael G, some things are forgiven.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Instead of using the word ‘authentic,’ I think I would have been clearer if I had said ‘true to the tradition.’ In other words, to be respectful to the style of music you are attempting to play. I myself am not the best of musicians, and constantly work to get better at the tunes. There was a time when I just told people I played with an American accent, but then I realized that was a ‘cop out,’ an excuse for not working harder.
And like others, my eyebrows were raised by the statement: "it could be argued that a tune is only player ‘proper’ without ornamentation." I suspect palethinboy made that statement with tongue in cheek.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

[*And like others, my eyebrows were raised by the statement: "it could be argued that a tune is only player ‘proper’ without ornamentation." I suspect palethinboy made that statement with tongue in cheek.*]

I think he meant that it can be played properly both ways, which would have been a perfectly valid statement.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

If by proper you mean like an English schoolmarm (no offense to Fiddle Aunt)

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Perhaps the OP was most focused on the Donegal style(s)?
That would narrow the search down a bit, perhaps, although for me
the search in itself makes me scratch my head.

I favor minimalist treatments of traditional tunes myself, as a good tune
will stand well more or less by itself, whereas a mediocre tune might be beyond rescue
by even the best efforts of interpretation and ornamentation.

I do realize that any serious authoritarian use of "good" and "mediocre" contradict my whole outlook
on this music in general - if it makes you and the listeners happy, I should have nothing
to add to the discussion, rule of thumb.

Hmmn.
Perhaps even this posting…?

Nah, I need to insert my twa farthings.
😉

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Ben Hall: When I had been struggling with all these ornaments, it was a relief to hear Ceili Bandits (Yvonne Casey, right?). From what I can remember, there are no pyrotechnics, just plain melody (at least on the CD I have in mind).

Oh, I just found this old thread which sort of confirms my thoughts:
https://thesession.org/discussions/15829

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

To my ears even so-called ‘plain melody’ can be too ornamental. - I realise from the many previous discussions that we are divided on this, but I am from the camp that believes that ‘The twiddley bits are part of the music’ (Michael Gill). In other words, the ornamentation should be perceived as just part of the tune. In this, my taste differentiates between a tune that is highly ornamented but still played well, and an unornamented tune that is played well but where the tune per-se is (to my ears) too ornamental. In particular I shy right away from playing a lot of those highly ornamental sounding hornpipes (which tend not to be highly ornamented with twiddly bits… if you get my drift).

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

I think that too much multiple variation to a tune can also be a form of ornamentation that can be easily overused. Okay, it probably lies outside of what the OP had in mind by ornamentation, but variations surely ornament a tune (??). Some people drive me nuts by having a different variation in every occurrence of both part a and part b. I often find that if I stumble into a nice new variation then I have to concentrate to not keep repeating it (at the cost of losing the original). This kind of ‘broader’ ornamentation should be used only tactfully.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

There’s no escaping it, whatever you do with the bow is ‘ornamentation’. It isn’t just the twiddly bits. For winds, whatever you do with ‘wind’, start and stop, where you ‘choose’ to take a breath, or use your tongue ~ is ‘ornamentation’. Articulation and rhythm are all options to vary, to ornament, as too harmonic choices. As far as those less subtle options, the twiddly bits, a tune can be handled well and with lift and life without every bothering to play a roll or make a cut. But, every option, every choice made is potentially an ‘ornamentation’… The direction of the bellows and the how of it with a free reed instrument too, concertina and accordion.

There are fine musicians that do quite well without what some seem to perceive as necessary, such as rolls. With music such tyranny is for those who choose to trap themselves by rules of their own creation and limitation, and lack of understanding in any deep or true sense… It is always easier to accept a black and white view of things, without colour, shades, blends or hues. It’s all fun, but hardly necessary or sacred… I think it fair to warn only to question anyone who comes with any lists of emphatic shoulds and shouldn’ts. Such narrow limitations should not be trusted.

(The above is not necessarily in response to anything recent or necessarily previously said in this thread.)

I quite like the thought behind Gobby’s ‘ornamented’ and ‘ornamental’… For some reason it brought to mind James Galway’s take on "The Belfast Hornpipe"… 😛

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Nicely said, ceolachan!

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Hear, hear! And you’d think that this should be the last we’d ever hear of it, but…….

Re: What’s the most ways to describe ornamentation?

Talk about too much of a good thing. I think you boys have the subject covered.
;)

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Sorry Ben. I have more on the subject. 😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsJbRWUwBx4&list=PLmHp0oibO6Lm2WDzzjZA_msjZOsUxCFYn


I’ve put this link up to Yvonne Casey’s playing because I’m still of the opinion that people simply aren’t hearing the ornamentation that’s there. Here she is, and well nigh every other note uses a slide; there are loads of trebles and both bowed and unbowed triplets; there’s the occasional roll, including bowed, staccato ones for extra rhythmic emphasis ; there are loads of cuts plus an occasional ornament that I think may be kind of peculiarly a fiddler’s ornament - one I use very sparingly, which is to land on the note below with an emphasis before hammering on to the main melody note, played quieter (not an elegant description, sorry). That last one is not the same as the fluter’s ‘cut’, by the way.

There are probably other bow and finger ornaments that I’ve missed. My point is that her playing is crammed full of ornamentation, and yet people are saying they’re not hearing it. Her playing doesn’t sound flashy, but you just try and play like that. It’s astonishingly subtle stuff. Full of nuance and effect.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

On Yvonne Casey - I can hear all the ornaments Ben Hell described, but I’m sure I’d have missed them first time round, or at least some of them. The orns are all there, but quite understated, imo. Lovely first tune, too.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Yay! "Ben Hell". I’m ‘aving’ that! 😀

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

And yes, that’s the thing, Jim - they’re easy to miss because her playing sounds understated. It’s actually complex, highly ornamented playing. She just doesn’t make a fuss about it. Which makes it all the more beautiful. 🙂

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Despite that clip (which did have rolls etc.) and despite that people who have heard a lot of her playing says she has them , it was still a relief to hear a fiddler playing so elegantly without the tricks and without making any tune sound dull at all. Hey, I’m on your side guys! It is OK to play just "the tune" as long as it sounds great. 🙂

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

If I think that the Yvonne Casey clip is an example of what ceolachan said, rather than ‘more on the subject’, am I missing something ?

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

It’s OK Jeff, I’m not arguing with you. I think, whatever she does, it’s pretty amazing stuff. And she does have an ability to understate in a way that just sucks you in. Instead of all this flashy stuff that you so often get. Mind you, the flashy stuff can be enjoyable too. 🙂

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

You are exactly on the ball with this Ben. It’s not an argument one way or the other. It just a demonstration of well played music, whether you call it ornamented or not. I’m starting to think that ‘ornamentation’ is a misleading word. It’s rather just a case of individual technique.

Are you there Arthur?

Arthur, just for the sake of a clarifying interlude, I’d be interested in reading what you think about all this at this point.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Off topic,but does anyone else think that in the Yvonne Casey clip that Luka Bloom’s backing was totally unsympathetic to the subtlety of her style and sometimes even drowns her out?

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

D’ya know, I was so absorbed in Yvonne Casey’s playing, I just didn’t notice Luke Bloom’s accompaniment!

Re: What’s the ornamentation?

Cheers, Ben Hall! Actually I appreciate your bringing up Yvonne Casey’s playing & encouraging others to listen more closely. Especially for the insight it sparked, "I’m starting to think that ‘ornamentation’ is a misleading word."
😀

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Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Well you guys were enjoying yourselves wihtout me 🙂.

Ive been relaising recently like maybe some others alluded to that I can really vary it up nicely and easily by just chanigng a cpl notes here and there.

Whether its aornamentation or not ill let you guys argue over but I think it varies a tuen up nicely as do traditional ormaents and i think the vairaiton is what is the main goal.

I try not to get too bogged down in theory which is why I shied away form reading all the replies till now (sunday) :P.

Another valid point someone made tho is I have been finding that some tunes are mediocre to start with and it feels like they would need alot of ‘tarting up’ to start with for me to find them interesting. now ofc the more skilled the player is the more technique they have at their disposal for this so I imagine that is a test of ones craft- and telling of my poor craft but I dont wanna force myself to play tunes I dont like for the sake of it, plenty of good ones I like to be going on with.

other tunes tho feel pretty complete with hardly any ornamentation- dowds favourite for instance, also being one of my favs.

I also find tho the more I like a tune is the more Ill wanna play it (obviously) and tease out the variations as I go.

I had a productive few nights this week just sitting in a dark room with some time to spare just playing the same tune/part over and over and seeing what different variations I could get out of it.

I got alot out of this kind of practice, it feels like I got into a groove and there seems to be a natural process going on where the tune is getting honed little by little.

With tunes I don’t like so much in the past its felt mechanical and uninspired but with the ones I liked it was just natural and flowed which I guess is the name of the game! 🙂

"Yvonne Case" ~ as she’s been introduced to the discussion. 😉

https://thesession.org/recordings/1754

This is one I haven’t yet had the pleasure of hearing. I’ll have to add it to my Christmas list. 😉

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

After all this time we’re still talking about "tune" and "ornamentation " as though they’re two separate things… 🙁

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

You might be, everyone else stopped two days ago.

I think the comments on the clip that Ben posted sum up the situation nicely.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

Ah, Steve, that’s a great conversation all of itself—I wonder if it merits its own thread. Again.

Re: What’s the mimimum ornamentation I could use to still have a tune sound ‘proper’

It’s in the thread title, David. That didn’t stop two days ago. And no, Joe, I reckon not! 🙂