Online Academy of Irish Music

Online Academy of Irish Music

Hi Folks,
I subscribed to this site and cancelled my subscription during my 7 day free trial. They went ahead after 7 days and still took the money from my credit card and now will not answer my emails.

Has this happened to anyone else?

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Sorry, a strangley timed refund came through moments after this post!

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Strangely not strangley…

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The folks at OAIM are decent, honest people. They are well-respected and held in affection by the local community. Young kids and a busy and active social and musical calendar often take precedence over a timely email response. It’s not fair to use this public venue so carelessly, to cause damage to people who have offered so much to the musical community.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

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At the risk of attracting trouble upon myself - I feel obliged to respond.

I understand you may know members of OAIM personally David, and that you may hold them in high regard and feel obliged to defend both them and the OAIM generally, but I think you are incorrect about the level of appropriateness (or inappropriateness as the case may be) of the OP’s post.

The OAIM is a business, and a subscription service - which requires a certain degree of trust on the part of a potential subscriber to provide sufficient bank details which could lead to charges. If an offer of 7 free days with no obligation to subscribe is made - then it is the duty of the business provider to ensure that such terms are adhered to. This is a standard requirement of business in general - but all the more so for an e-commerce business.

Its fair enough that you may well know some of the tutors or the owners of the OAIM - but e-commerce by its nature has no geographical limit and a potential subscriber can be from as far away as Tazmania with not the faintest idea who runs the site.

People are entitled to be hasty when an online agreement isn’t adhered to immediately - particularly subscription promises and free trial offers, and in fairness it would be only all the more to the OAIM’s benefit if those people who deal with this side of the business ensured that there were no delays - or confusion regarding such.

As for suggesting that the OP was careless and inconsiderate to use this forum to ask the question "Has this happened to anyone else?" - I can’t think of a better forum to ask the question to be honest given the nature of this forum.

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Very well stated, indeed, mikiemax. I support and agree with everything you said.

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I appreciate Mike’s response. But trial by internet is a particularly harmful and dangerous thing. The people who operate the site have been travelling and playing gigs in England and France for the past few weeks. I assume that they have not had immediate access to the internet.
I am not the only person who holds the OAIM in high regard. These are people who give their time freely to community projects. They are highly valued in this part of County Clare. To insinuate on a public music forum that they deliberately ignore people ("will not answer my emails") — and rip people off — is character assassination.
It’s more than just a simple question from the OP. It seems very unfair to me that they have been attacked like this.

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Pointing out a lapse in customer service, then immediately posting that they had belatedly fixed it hardly counts as ‘attacking’ in my book.

If they don’t want complaints like this to go public then all they have to do is answer their emails. That’s easy to do these days no matter where you are in the world.

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It was a statement of fact, The OP also mentioned as soon as he got a refund, what is the problem everything has been explained, has anyones reputation been damaged?

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Mikiemax and Ailin, the issue is the way it was done. People are very bitter and spiteful when it comes to small inconveniences. For all we know, the OP could’ve made a mistake and cancelled his subscription a day late, and those "emails" could’ve been just one email sent just a couple of hours ago.(Not saying the OP lied, but it could happen. It’s not like any of us would know).

A lot of things are handled by computers and servers in conjuction with people. While the server may have collected money from a noted subscribed account, likely someone had to process the cancelled subscription. It’s not fair to immediately cry wolf saying "They stole my money!" when you haven’t given them time to process the refund. Even after your refund is processed, you still have to wait for your bank to give you your money in many cases.

A few weeks ago, I was double charged for two milkshakes and that cost me near $20. The ice cream girl told me that my debit card wouldn’t go through, so I paid cash. While checking my bank account I noticed the transaction went through but was pending. I let the shop know and they told me to wait a few days. My purchase was refunded the way they said it would be.

Now how wrong would I have been if I posted on a review website, "Their credit card machine steals money and they double charge you for milkshakes"?

People see this stuff, we should be more considerate of how our words could affect someone’s livelihood. It’s not like they’re a mega-corporation with a 24-hour staffed call center.

I’ve had very nice experiences with OAIM and they come off to me as very kind and caring people.

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Well I’m unsure of the motivation behind the OP’s posts but I’d hope that it was a genuine question.

In any event one would also hope that the fact - that it was immediately pointed out that a refund was made - would indicate there was no intention from the OAIM to take money not due and it was simply a matter of delay, as you say through the likelihood of the administrators being unusually busy at present.

I would also hope that the many endorsements and comments on this site (yours included David) and other sites of the OAIM are enough to outweigh any possible negative impact of malicious or insincere statements made, which are in any event largely inevitable when carrying on such a business via the internet.

I appreciate your position David - and I understand its a personal position and I respect that, I’m glad we didn’t end up arguing - I was concerned my post might come across the wrong way. I’m glad you recognised my comments are in respect of broader issues regarding services on the web in general.

Thanks for endorsing my comments Ailin.

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It wasn’t an insinuation, David. It actually happened that they put through the charge and did not respond to emails. There was nothing inflammatory - no "stealing" or "ripped off" verbiage expressed or implied. Your complaint would be valid if the OP hadn’t provided the update of things being made right, but that does not diminish the validity and appropriateness of the original post. I think it’s worth re-evaluating your position by thinking how you would feel if the OP had been dealing with, say, an insurance company or the like. On another site, there was an extensive thread about a well-known flute maker who by all accounts makes superb flutes but is reportedly extremely hard to reach and weak on meeting his commitments. I think it is a service to us all to air these things, provided Jeremy feels that posters are not flamers or trolls. Think about it.

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I read "a strangely timed refund" as reference to the OAIM’s response to B’Lad notifying them that he planned to make the issue public. Or, that they responded to his post making it public, and that only then did he get his money back. Perhaps I misread "Sorry, a strangely timed refund came through moments after this post!" I took it as a sarcastic "sorry"- that the refund came to him only after he exerted public pressure on the folks at OAIM. I didn’t sense a sincere apology on his part for posting hastily and thoughtlessly.
The ripped-off implication is "will not answer my emails" - implying that they ignored his request for a refund. "…will not answer my emails" is very different than "have not answered my emails." His "sorry," to my mind, came too little and too late. In any case I think that Jerone has it about right.
A mean-spirited anonymous post on an internet site has some of the character of a nasty comment on the wall of a public toilet. Not to see that this single post is very different from the many threads, going on for years, regarding the other issue, is obtuse.

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This "message board"/forum desperately needs some moderation functionality.
The following comes to mind when trying to decypher this thread.
Threads are difficult to read, especially when users quote other users. (a most basic feature of any message board).
Moderation could/should have been done on this thread for example.
As with other forums there should be "stickys" with the rules defined, with bans handed out by moderators when infringements occur. I would think Jeremy leaves himself open to legal action if someone is wrongly defamed, hence the need for rules and bans.
If this was elsewhere this or other threads would probably have been locked.

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Interesting. I did not pick up on his getting a refund as a result of his posting here, but you may be right. If so, it doesn’t represent the organization well that they could get themselves in gear only when the OP went public. If that is the case, I say bravo for going public. Perhaps the organization will in future be as prompt when it is merely between them and their customer. I don’t see how your bringing this out (and thank you for so doing) supports your position. If I were the OP, I wouldn’t be "sorry" either. If you think any of the OP posts have been mean spirited, you’re reading into them something I’d wager few others see.

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Where on this thread has someone - anyone, been "wrongly defamed" ?

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The way I read the OP was along the lines of, "OAIM has taken money out of my account and I’m a bit concerned. Has anyone else had a similar problem? Oh, never mind — they just paid it back. How’s that for timing!"
It seems to me that if anything this is good publicity for them, and the subsequent comments are at best unnecessary, and at worst doing an injustice to all parties.

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I’ve actually went today and got an account. Are the free lessons in the 7-day free trial just the first 6 lessons in the series? I may consider getting a subscription some day. Maybe I’ll ask for it for my Birthday.

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OAIM, I can assure you, is not about money but individuals, inspired by the music ,dedicated to the tunes, going the extra mile to share what they have learned. If you think any of the tutors will be making their fortune at OIAM ! paying the bills maybe… Encourage and support our community and our community will encourage and support others. What goes around comes around.

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TBB, All of the modules have a free lesson(or set of free lessons)

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Oaim great web site and fantastic idea. Errors happen all the time in business a little patience goes a long way. Just think of all those tutors in your own home 24,7 fantastic.

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david, he just described what happened, asked a question. didn’t sound like he was pointing fingers at all.

I love OAIM, great service, the lessons are really top-notch, and they are really nice about cancelling etc. I highly recommend OAIM.

I don’t work for them, btw. :)

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Next time I get some money maybe I’ll put in for a subscription. Can you download full MP3’s of lessons and people talking you through tunes? I’ve seen a couple of their tunes and I like the way they teach :) they tell you where the notes are in a tune on the board.

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One glitch which they fixed. No-one else reporting any problems with them. Various testimonials. All in all I would say that this thread is good publicity for them.

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Money was wrongfully taken after a trial period and there was a delay in paying it back. Hopefully highlighting this issue will mean OIAM will be more vigilant and this won’t happen to others.

OIAM recognised their error and apologetically made amends and were very professional about it.

Thread ends there!!!

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‘Fraid not. I subscribed last year for a few months. When I unsubscribed, the payments stopped immediately.
I can highly recommend them. Their lessons are as close to the real thing as you can get ‘online’. I learnt a number of tunes that I still enjoy playing. I will be resubscribing again.

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I have used OIAM for concertina and whistle. More than satisfied with the lessons.

When my time ran out, I had forgotten the payment arrangement that I had set up. OAIM stopped taking moneyand informd me accordingly. There are many commercial organisations who would happily have carried on taking money until I woke up.

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I think the OAIM is excellent and I’ve never had any problem with them. Bouzouki Boy’s statement ‘now they will not answer my emails’ is the problem. He’s accusing them of deliberately ignoring him yet doesn’t have any evidence that this was the case.

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No he is not, he is stating a fact, this is part of the problem with the internet.
Wendy you are interpreting his statement in a particular way, he has made no accusation, he has mentioned that they have refunded him.

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This thread actually helped me decide that OAIM is trustworthy.