How I Spent My (American) Holiday Weekend

Bear with me on my first paragraph folks. This posting actually ends up on-topic…

Here’s how I spent my (American) Memorial Day long-weekend: Friday nite: up all night taking care of my beautiful 7 week old son, Nathan - to give my wife a break because she takes care of him every nite during the work week. Saturday: take care of my son, work on my son’s room, picnic with family & friends. Sunday: take care of my son, mow the lawn (a few acres takes a few hours), work on the house, work on my son’s bedroom. Monday: take care of my son, continue building my son’s bedroom. Tuesday: Back to work… finally got to play some music at night.

So why do I bore you all with these mundane details of my ordinary everyday life? How can any of this possibly be on-topic to such an august group of Irish Traditional Musicians? Because I also spent a part of the weekend bristling over jmh’s posting on Friday in which she “politely” suggested an inferior player at her local session to “practice” and “take lessons”. Maybe the player is a clod, and maybe he needed this advice, but perhaps, too, there are multiple sides to his story.

We experienced ITMers must be respectful of the fact that, no matter how passionate and dedicated we are to our music, for many of us it is not the only thing in our lives. I know dozens of ITMers whose days get filled up with silly things like health, family, jobs, etc. For myself, I would have loved to have played music for countless hours on end with my friends all weekend long. Sometimes life just doesn’t work out that way. It’s sad to think that, with my intermediate skills and repertoire of only 100 tunes, I might be treated rudely at jmh’s local session with her “boys” because that session might be my only chance to play that week, and with precious little practice time, my playing may be mistake-prone.

I’ve been fortunate enough to play in sessions in Ireland and America which were led by true master players - Bill McKomiskey, Eamonn Dillon, Tom O‘Shaughnessy, and others. These leaders were inclusive, gracious, supportive, encouraging… …and even complimentary. Once in Dublin I was invited by Connie O’Connell to join a session with him, Charlie Lennon, Kevin Burke, and other living legends - even after he heard me play!!! I politely declined, of course!!! The moral of the story is that the true masters of ITM recognize themselves as ambassadors of the tradition, rather than owners of it.

The irony in jmh’s post is that she concludes by saying that since she gave her “friendly advice” to the inferior musician, he has not been a problem anymore because he “hasn’t shown up in a while”. Sadly, I wonder if she recognizes that there may be a connection. We who aspire to be masters may never get there from a skills perspective, but that should never stop us from getting there from a maturity perspective.

Actually, I lied. I did get an hour of practice time on Saturday nite - at 3:30 AM, after my son finally fell asleep. I played outside in my front yard, with the faint peaceful glow of pre-dawn on the eastern horizon. The beautiful echo from the surrounding hills made for quite a sublime flute duet. I can proudly say that the bloke playing on the other side of the valley, 1/4 second out of sync with me, sure played some nice flute!

I agree with your points, bkessler. I might add that welcome, respect, and appreciation always seem to bring out the best in people’s music and well as character.

On the flipside from O’Connell, Lennon et al, no matter how good you are, there is surely always a session somewhere where you’ll get snubbed. Yes, the noodlers, tweeters, drifter-in-and-out-of-timers and haven’t-a-frigging-cluesters can be infuriating, but in the eyes, or ears of some players, anyone of us could be one of the aforementioned. Of course, their judgement may be borne more of an inflated ego than superior musical discrimination, but the best we can do is suffer fools gladly and accept criticism graciously.

Speaking as someone who has little time to practice (a max of about an hour a day, and that’s a phenomenally good week; most weeks it’s about an hour every other day) and who learns tunes slowly, thank you bkessler for your kind words!
Maybe the nice thing to do when a player is really lousy is to *offer* a lesson (if you play the same instrument or one in the same family) or offer to help locate a teacher? Although I suppose any comment, however gentle, could drive someone away.
Sidebar: I was at my first session over the 3-day weekend, and hadn’t practiced for 5 days beforehand. (Had I known I’d be invited to the session, which was private and impromptu, it would have been different…) I flubbed even a couple of tunes I knew well, and only did a competent job on two I’ve known thoroughly for months. There’s more than one reason for poor playing, and rust is definitely one of them.
2c…
Sara

I have never been to a session as they are described here. For one thing, there are none that I know of within a distance that I am comfortable with travelling back and forth in a night. A gathering of musicians, as I know it, is a group of friends that have been gathering every Wednesday night for about twenty years. If a major holiday falls on a Wednesday, they plan to gather on Sunday that week. I believe that in the last two decades, no week has been forfeit fer lovenermoney. These folks started as rank beginners, looking for inspiration and comraderie. Some have left, newbies have joined, and every week will find the whole range of skills and talents. They take turns hosting music at their homes, and share a meal and conversation before tunes. While they’re playing they take turns around the circle choosing the next tune. When I became a member of this internet forum I found it curious, and still do, that people make a session such a formal occasion with paid musicians to lead the others. I am rarely able to go Wed nite music any more, but when I do it isn’t to rub elbows with the famous and talented, it is to catch up on my friends’ lives. I learn a new tune once in a while, and come away from the evening relaxed and refreshed. If it is such a bear to have to bear with the begginers, why don’t people just invite their favorites to their homes for an evening of tunes?

bkessler, did you feel that Joyce was attacking you personally, or were you just identifying with the person Joyce spoke of? I haven’t gotten the impression she deserves the distinction of having an “inflated ego” as David suggests. Dealing with people who DO need practice and instruction, but insist on inflicting themselves on a session, is a real problem for people interested in getting together for a few tunes.

If a session is over your head, what’s wrong with either listening, or starting another one somewhere else that suits your ability more? There’s no need to brood about it and explain why you can’t practice as much as you would like. And you can’t expect people to say, “Sure, make it really hard for me to enjoy playing the tunes, I’ll be happy to sacrifice my enjoyment of the session for you since your situation is so dire.”

No harm to Joyce, Jack or anyone else here but, from my personal experience, the perfect session as described on this site is very elusive.

I’ve just come back from a night out. I wasn’t playing apart from a couple of tunes--Oh, sorry. I realise you’re only supposed to borrow an instrument once 🙂--but one of the members here(and his sister) had a great session in one the Edinburgh pubs. Now, there were--God forbid--shakey eggs, a singer(what a lovely voice she had too!), more than two guitarists, an accordianist, a bongo player. One of the guitarists whom I’ve known to play for over 30 years “noodled” on a couple of reels he didn’t know. Shock, Horror. Of course, it wasn’t perfectly flowing all the time but there was so much good music it would be churlish to criticise. Don’t try to tell me that it wasn’t good either. I’ve been going to sessions etc for more years than I care to remember.

Now, I respect everyone’s opinion around here and it’s a matter of common sense and good manners what counts at these situations. Every one is different. If only we could all agree on what these are. 🙂

John

I think that’s part of the problem with discussing sessions in this forum. We’re from all around the globe, play in all different situations and session styles, and the modus operand varies from place to place, and we play at all different levels. So when we comment on session related “pet peeves” or frustrations -- we’re coming from all different angles. What goes down fine at one session might not be suited for the other, but we lump them all together unknowingly. It’s almost at the point where we would need to have disclaimers attached to the bottom of our posts that say something like:

bradtrad: USA, slow player, never been to Ireland, went to a session in Boston twice.

Or

brendaflute: England, 18 years experience, playing mostly around London, experience at hosting sessions, visits Ireland frequently

Then we could get an idea of where that person’s point of view comes from, and what sort of experience they might have. I’m not suggesting we do this, or that Jeremy add a card to our name when we post, I just want to illustrate why we seem to have so many disconnects in here when we talk about session etiquette.

I agree, Jack. There’s all forms of sessions in Edinburgh too. It depends too on your mood, the time of day, and the amount of drink involved. The one I mentioned didn’t really start till about 23.00 and goes on till about 02.00 so it’s obviously more relaxed. There was still loads of good music going on , though.

Well, it may come as a surprise and shock, but I’ve attended plenty of sessions where there were more bodhrans than you can shake a stick at (and I can shake a stick at an awful lot of bodhrans), guitarists outnumbered melody players, etc., and had a perfectly good time. But it’s not a *perfect* session, by any stretch of the imagination, that sort of lopsidedness, by almost anyone’s standards. Whoever said that something had to be perfect before you could enjoy it?

That said, it just depends on the session. Some sessions aren’t welcoming of beginners, and the one time I suggested to a small group of well-known Dublin musos that perhaps beginners should sometimes be supported at a session, I was immediately shouted down, since the general stance was that beginners have their own outlets of playing and these types go out to play at the speed they feel the music should be played at at any given time.

Whether I, an intermediate player, think that a session should welcome beginners is immaterial. The session itself has the right to decide that, and that usually means the combined and blended opinions of the session regulars, most especially the experienced ones who keep the thing going, alive, and ticking (in some cases, rather more like a bomb than not). These are generally the musos who are keeping whatever standard the session has in place.

And, BTW, harder to find a humbler muso than Joyce, who I’ve heard is quite decent.

bkessler, this site being an the equivalent of internet porn for ITM enthusiasts, most of the people you encouner in the forums are, like myself, obsessed. We have a tendency to express strong opinions unrepresentative of those of the general populance, and frequently vent things here that we couldn’t vent at the session we just came from because we’d sound like a bunch of uppity snobs who hate everybody. (Don’t deny it folks, you know it’s true!)

I strongly agree with the sentiments you have expressed. It’s ridiculous to expect every piper to play like cuillian vallely and every guitarist to play like dennis cahill. Players whose enjoyment of a session depends on nobody being a little rusty from lack of practice or hopelessly lacking in skill ought to be getting together in closed groups with the players they *want* to play with - instead of attending (or being paid to host) “open” sessions and then coming in here and complaining about everybody else who shows up.

encounter, not encouner.

“instead of attending (or being paid to host) ”open“ sessions and then coming in here and complaining about everybody else who shows up” Who are you referring to Kerri? Just curious.

“We have a tendency to express strong opinions unrepresentative of those of the general populance, and frequently vent things here that we couldn’t vent at the session we just came from because we’d sound like a bunch of uppity snobs who hate everybody. (Don’t deny it folks, you know it’s true!)”

Oh, I’ll deny it strenuously, as a matter of fact. Too many of my regular session mates read The Session, even if they don’t post. *smirk* I’m actually MORE mouthy in person than I am online, in real life. Read it and tremble, folks.

BTW, I think folks are possibly swinging a lee-tle too far out to the different ends of the continuum here. I don’t think anyone, least of all Joyce, was ever suggesting anyone must play like Vallely or Cahill or any amount of others, or suggesting that everyone must be as obsessed as oneself.

Well, myself, first. I have at come home disappointed after having had to sit beside a noisy banjo or a floppy bodhran and vented my frustration. Then, secondly, anybody else who goes to an “open” session and then fumes afterwards about how open it was. I know we are venting, but I often wonder how many shy people out there are actually getting their feelings hurt, thinking “Oh, god, are they talking about ME? I I was sitting beside Kerri last night and she didn’t say anything!” I’ve had to be a lot nicer in here after I realized everybody knows who I am.

read it and tremble… lol. You’ve got to come up to Montreal, Zina. Monday is noodle night at the local college pub. Free beer and sloppy tunes!

I would LOVE to come up to Montreal for tunes, or even must a good visit. The terrible thing is that my friend Clara is quitting her job with United and has offered me ALL of the rest of her companion passes. But they have to be used by the end of June. How much traveling can I afford in one month? Not as much as I could travel, that’s for sure! Baltimore, Chicago, San Francisco, all for no more than three days each, and I’m still hoping to squeak out enough money to get to Boston.

ooh, also, I’m not pointing fingers at anyone specific, (ie Joyce or Jack or your divine self). I’m just aknowleging the general negativity of a lot of threads we create, along the genre of “don’t you just want to poke out the eyes of people who play Harvest Home?”

Well, try to squeeze us into the Boston leg of your trip. Sometimes they even bring nachos to go with the beer and noodles.

I never get to play Harvest Home, as I can never remember how it starts (I have the same problem with Boys of Ballysodare and Boys of Bluehill), so it’s always nice to play it when somebody starts it up.

What, out of two days in Boston, I’m supposed to run up to Montreal?! *boggle* LOL

I’m sure you can work it out if you only wiggle your ears and *try*…

Wiggle my ears and repeat, “There’s no place like home, there’s no place like home…”, maybe?

No, you have to say “there’s no place like Kerri’s couch, there’s no place like Kerri’s couch! There’s no beer like the beer in Kerri’s fridge!”…

speaking of which…

ROFL

Poor me. I’m back on Atkins because this is supposed to be the year that I get my dancing back in shape, which means the rest of me needs to get back in shape too. No beer. *sob*

Well, now that I’m thoroughly depressed, I guess I’ll go back to work.

“There’s no tequila like the tequila down the street from Kerri’s house!”

(Wait, did you mean booze in general, or just beer? Please don’t say you can’t drink any booze at all, I might start crying.)

It’s like good sex and bad sex innit? Some people are happy to put up with bad sex that leaves them feeling unsatisfied. Other people would rather create perfect conditions for a great shag with the right person/people. Or it’s like going out for a meal. You can stick with a restaurant you know, invite only the people you really like to talk to so you know it’s going to be a great evening, or you can try somewhere new and let your friends invite their friends, and risk the service/food/conversation being sh*te.

If a person who practises lots every day and wants to seek out a session that is suitable for them with musicians they like playing with, then I see no harm in that. If someone who doesn’t get to practise very much wants to fit in, that also shouldn’t be a problem. They can play along to the tunes they know and just sit and listen for the rest, without “noodling”. See it’s like this: Joyce probably had words with this person because they were spoiling her tunes in some way, not because they don’t get to practise much or only know 100 tunes. If you don’t get to practise much and have a repertoire of 100 tunes, and you want to try out Joyce’s session, I’m afraid there are going to be lots and lots of tunes you don’t know. If you put down your instrument and LISTEN during these tunes, Joyce won’t feel the need to give you friendly advice, and everything’ll be fine and dandy.

Mark, you’re on the wrong thread. The “noodling” conversation is over here https://thesession.org/discussions/3666 refusing to die, and popping up like a virus in all the other conversations I contribute to.

Sorry. I thought we were talking about Joyce and why she might have “had words” with someone at her session. I won’t contribute anymore if I’m bothering you.

LOL. That’s right, Mark. I want everyone to stop posting except for me and everyone who agrees with me all the time! (It would be lonely but so much more harmonious!) I forgot to put one of these ;^) on there.

I don’t even know Joyce. I’m just agreeing with bkessler’s first four paragraphs. I don’t know a thing about the other two.

Forgot to add: Kerri, been playing something or other since the day I was born, been to sessions, jams, and song circles all over the world.

I’d have to agree with Mark. It’s less a matter of how good a player the annoyance might have been, more a matter of lack of judgement as to whether one is adding or detracting to the overall music. But that gets us back to standards, right? *grin*

Mainly just beer, Kerri. I’ll be doing a lot of gin and tonics, which, luckily, I happen to adore. *sigh* But no more apple ciders, except when I’m determined to treat myself…

Fair enough, but we can’t have just have the same conversation over and over and over again about how people who don’t “get it” are “spoiling it” for “everybody else”. At some point we should take a moment to get some perspective and acknowledge sessions are about community and human relationships, not just deedle-deedle and whack-fol-the-dido.

I might agree with Mark too, I dunno how what he’s talking about relates to what kessler was talking about, except that poor Joyce, who isn’t here to defend herself, popped up in both comments.

Anyhoo, gin and tonics it is. I’ll stock up on Bombay Sapphire and various types of citrus.

My point (directed mainly to bkessler) is, and I’m going to say this really clearly and concisely so that you understand how what I said relates to the thread: *the fact that you might not have time to practise or only know 100 tunes has nothing to do with being told off by someone like Joyce at a session*. And yes, sessions are about community and human relationships. So if you want to get along with your fellow musicians and have a great session, just exercise manners like Jack says. It’s as simple as that.

Actually, I take that post back. It sounds stronger than it was meant. I suppose I’m trying to make bkessler feel better but not making a very good job of it at all. bkessler, don’t fret and imagine that you’re automatically going to get an earful just because of the number of tunes you play or your playing. It doesn’t work like that, and you shouldn’t worry about Joyce’s comments because that’s not how they were meant. There I feel better now. Time to get on with some work - I have to make an exam paper for my students and if I’m all het up I’ll end up making it too difficult for them and they’ll whinge 🙂

riiiight. OK, I understand now. Thanks for dumbing it down for me. Please don’t punish your students for my sins!

Sessions are about community and human relationships? You mean, we’re supposed regularly argue, backstab, and fume about the neighbors and their barking dogs and inconsiderate behavior and leaving the toilet seat up in the middle of the night? Oh, well, if that’s what it’s all about, I think we can do that.

*snort*

Oh, and the tube top off the toothpaste. That one really gets me. *smirk*

You leave the toilet seat up Zina? Do you do it standing up? wow!

heh - I’m really fulla sh*t these days, aren’t I! I’m getting a kick out of watching the fur stand up all over the place though. Does that make me a bad person or a just crappy musician?

Oh, I do it all over the place and in all kinds of positions, Jack…

woo-hoo! Late-late night programming!

Yeah, Kerri, we know you like to stir up the mud just for the fun of it, but if you didn’t notice, I was making fun of you…*grin*…but I’m done with my sketches for this website, so I guess I’m off to bed now…talk to you guys tomorrow!

Why do women always expect men to put the toilet seat down? Men don’t expect women to leave the toilet seat up in readiness for them. I find it annoying to have to lift the seat before I have a weewee, but it’s not like I collar a woman afterwards and moan about it. I just put up with it. Having said that, my mum brought me up to leave the seat down, and now in my adulthood I do it out of force of habit. But I always wonder why I bother.

Oh, and -- eek, not blue sapphire. I like that in martinis, but not with tonic. 🙂

Mark, because a man takes a leak standing up, but sitting down on a toilet with the seat up in the middle of the night when you’re half asleep is no fun. *grin*

Oh, I know, Zina. I just keep forgetting to wink and grin. :^| ;^) :^D

Zina, duh, switch the light on! 🙂

Damn, Zina… that’s so… LOGICAL! I never had an excuse for that one before! What an intellect. Thank you!

Real men poop standing up.

What, when I’m half asleep and going back to bed, Mark? No way. Then I’ll just trip over a cat on the way back to the bed in the dark. Or be completely awake when I’ve several more hours to sleep if I can manage it.

LOL -- I’m nothing if not logical, right, Kerri? *snort* Jack, it must have something to do with quiche somehow.

This discussion has really gone down the toilet now.

Heh. I was waiting for that as my signal to get to bed. Night, all!

Hmm, fair enough. That is the most logical explanation I’ve heard for it so thanks Zina. All I’ve ever been confronted with is “you have to do it out of politeness”, and the gentlemanliness thing, and then the argument goes on to gender roles in society and feminism and stuff. I guess another valid reason is that there are 4 acts: 1) male poop, 2) male weewee, 3) female poop, 4) female weewee. 3 of the 4 require that the seat is down (unless your Jack) so “down” wins by majority.

I might wee wee sitting down for all you know Dow.

Hah! And you call yourself a real man?!

Arrghh I just caught myself doing the thing I hate most when other people do it: mixing up “your” and “you’re”.

I could be a transvestite for all you know Dow.

In theory I have no problem with that, but you’d at least have to get rid of the beard or you’re not going to be very convincing.

Oh, that was a great belly laugh for me, Jack, Mark. Nothing like a few poo jokes to lighten the tone of any conversation!

I don’t know… I’m pretty convincing with the beard actually. *wink wink*

Wow! Quite a lively discussion has taken place on the (eastern US) overnite. To clear up any misunderstanding, my post was in the spirit of rainog’s and fiddlemouse’s replies. I did not intend to imply that I thought Joyce’s “judgement may be borne more of an inflated ego”, and don’t doubt her humility in the least.

In my 7 yrs of ITMing, I have seen some of the best of session etiquette, but, judging by many of the worldwide postings in TheSession, thankfully I have *not* seen the worst. So I clearly have never had a reason to “vent” on TheSession. I, too, would not want someone mangling a bodhran or strangling a saxophone inches from my ear in an ITM session (although I do admire bodhran players who play tastefully).

I am not an “official” teacher by profession, but in 15 years in my day job, I have had the opportunity to mentor many newcomers to my profession. Few things give me goosebumps quite like seeing one of my “students” excel in his/her career. It was while I was on a teaching assignment in Ireland that I acquired my passion for ITM. It is my nature to try to extend to all newcomers the same courtesy and respect that was shown to me by the experienced players who welcomed me into their fold in those early years. YMMV.

Hey Guys, thanks for your support on this thread. You all are the best! Maybe I should mention it more often, but I really do appreciate you all and consider myself lucky to have found this website.

bkessler, I actually never mentioned names or instruments. You haven’t been around to the session in ages and haven’t seen a lot of folks come and go. Believe me it’s been quite the circus lately. But if you feel that you are guilty of some of the things I mentioned like using the session as your practice time at expense of other players, starting tunes you can’t play, and starting more tunes than anyone else, etc….well then I don’t know what to say. I never referred to this person as “inferior”. And I still consider myself a humble beginner, working extremely hard and making huge time commitments to learn and live the Music. Last year I almost lost my marriage, job and health over the Music and all the craziness, but I wouldn’t trade the experiences or for the world. “The Boys” are also just as obsessed and passionate about playing the Music.

*Everyone* is welcome to play at our session. We love newcomers and old friends, but just be courteous and *fair* to the other musicians. Maybe we take the music a little to far, but hey, isn’t it exciting to live on the edge sometimes. I certainly don’t like to see hurt feeling regarding sessions, but I will probably continue to vent about things here or with the boys if I feel our session has problems.

I’ve been participating on this site for a few years now (during my work hours mostly). I’ve made some great friends from this website. It’s a place to come and vent, share session horror stories, and also share the joy of playing Irish Music. Many times we have our differences and disagreements, which makes it interesting and compelling. But we don’t use names or viciously attack other musicians.

bkessler, congratulations on your newborn son. I understand that’s a huge time commitment. But did you know that Annabel had a beautiful baby this past January? Did you know that she still comes down to the session? Herself , Michael and the baby were there last night and it was a lovely session. She is always sending me emails to come over and play some tunes. She’s actually doing gigs at a farmers market all summer. And she also has a full time job, husband, dogs, house, etc (Annabel, you rock girl!)……but I guess it’s all about priorities. She chooses to make the time to practice, learn tunes and still be a great mom.

Hmmm….bkessler, you say you have no time to practice, but it seems you have spent a lot of time in this yellow message board 😉

I sincerely wish you the best and I’m actually glad you posted this thread. But now I want you log off the computer and go play that lovely flute you have 😉

Joyce

I could be wrong, but I think much of non-bodily function related discussion may have missed the point of the original post. The ambassadors of ITM vs. Owners of ITM. Which I think is much more thought provoking.

bkessler - one more thing, you can email me through this website if you feel you need to further discuss this. There sometimes comes a time when members need to take it offline and this might be the case.

Joyce

Perhaps, autumn, but it also somewhat diffused emotions on what looked to be turning into a thread targeted at one person that many of us know quite well and like, in person and online. Also, we tend to treat this board as we do sessions -- and I’ve never heard anyone ask that conversation at a session be thought provoking. I’m sure you’ve noticed.

BTW, just for the sake of picking nits, I’m not in the eastern US, and neither is Jack, nor Kerri, nor Dow. I’m in Colorado, Jack is in California, Kerri is in Montreal, and Mark is in Australia. Mark was the only one of us who had any business being up that late, since it wasn’t late at all for him. 🙂

Too true Zina 🙂

You’re telling me! I couldn’t get out of bed until 2 this afternoon!

What could be more “thought provoking” than pooping standing up?

Hey, who’s been posting things using my name??!!

Pooping standing up while reading “Harper’s” perhaps?

Or the OED. Hey, it’s the late night crew, on again…

And we’re back on topic. 🙂