Vegan uilleann pipes

Hi guys!
I hope that my question will not become the reason for a civil war in the peaceful world of uilleann piping :P
Is there anyone who has tried a synthetic/artificial leather bags and/or bellows? If yes, how they works?
I know that there are already things like that for GHBs, but I never heard something about uilleann…
I’m doing some research about the materials that can be used for this use and the firsts that I found are: gore-tex, lorica, naugahyde, nylon and vinyl (the last one used by pipers such as Paddy Keenan or even Seamus Ennis). However, we have to say that many of these materials are iper synthetic and require long industrial processes or even they are patented and I don’t know if they are really more ecological and with a lower environmental impact than leather.
Of course, leather is probably the best and finest material for our bags, but, you know… I have a couple of cow-friends and I don’t want to terrorize them :P
I hope to read useful comments without insults or useless sarcasm to the vegans, there are so many places on the web where omnivores can hate vegans and vegans can hate omnivores :D

Thank you!

I remember reading on Facebook that Martin Gallen made a cow friendly set. Banba uilleann
http://banbadesign.co.uk/epages/31a848a4-575c-4693-b3fa-941aca51af8b.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/31a848a4-575c-4693-b3fa-941aca51af8b

I also think David Dayes budget sets may be leather free….?
All the best,
Patrick

In the future I also plan to have vegan uilleann set (and also multidrone one if possible 🙂.
Look on Andreas Rogge, he makes synhetic (nylon) bags for his cheap plastic basic sets.
http://www.uilleann-pipes.de/en/instruments/uilleann-pipes/practice-set-in-d/

best regards

Ondrej

there should be a tune called “Hunting the Wild Nagua,” in memory of Seamus……

If you don’t want animal and don’t want synthetic you are setting yourself a bit of a challenge. Natural rubber is the obvious material, but you don’t want a balloon under your arm, so rubberized cotton cloth might be the way to go. Or if you want to be more adventurous you could re-invent the pipes and use a concertina style paper and card bellows instead of the dead animal.

I am not a vegan hater - I admire people that uphold principles. I have been vegetarian for 27 years. I do have to question, however, the moral credentials of substituting non-biodegradable, fossil-fuel-derived synthetics over a by-product from the meat industry (which does the job better). I choose the word “question”, as I am aware that the meat industry also has enormous environmental impact, so either choice might carry equal blame, from the enviromentalist’s perspective.

I suppose, ultimately, I have a weakness for the music and, even if I followed a vegan diet, I would probably compromise my vegan principles for the sake of the music.

Ethics in musical instrument manufacturing ….. Obviously no longer using ivory for piano keys, bridges etc. What about ebony for chanters,flutes, fretboards, chemical mixtures for polished finishes, petrochemicals for picks, non-animal hides for pipes, bodhráns. It opens up a Pandora’s box………

If a non-biodegradeable material is made out of fossil material then the fossil material is no more a ‘fuel’ than a hunk of rock hewn out to make a building. If it is really is non-biodegradeable, and won’t break down to something that releases CO2, then carefully burying it a hole in ground is carbon neutral.

What chemicals and how much energy are used to make a leather bag ? How are the chemicals disposed of ?

Full respect for those who eschew animal products but half thought-through environmental arguments may do more harm than good.

Hmm.. veggie for c 28 years… do I detect a trend among habitues here? Can’t comment usefully on the OP though as I wear leather sandals..

I’m a non-practicing vegan myself.

I don’t know Kilcash but for me it was a lot to do with acute food poisoning from an Israeli chicken and a burger with a half eaten beetle on the end of my fork, they and a gorgeous veggie girl I was trying to impress did the trick, habit the rest.

A burger with a half-eaten beetle?
I’d pay to hear the story of how the poor beetle wound up on the burger, to be honest.

You all do know that violins are held together with animal glue (usually horse)..I have seen bellows repaired with fish glue…BTW ethical vegetarian here.

http://www.vpipes.com

I don’t know that their still masking these but no animal products that I’m aware of

I’d just eat whole grains, and sing.

The renowned Galician pipe-maker Seivane (also, not coincidentally, the father of Susana) offers a Gore-Tex bag as one of the customisation options on his pipes; I can’t imagine he’d put his name to that unless it gave pretty good results.
https://seivane.es/en/tienda/index.html

The only sensible answer to this is yes. It’s not an issue. Speak to your pipemaker.

I like a steak as much as the next guy but no need to feel threatened because someone else doesn’t share your tastes. Sheesh.

I’m a banjo player, but I identify as a fiddler.

“there should be a tune called ”Hunting the Wild Nagua,“ in memory of Seamus……”

Many years ago, a radio show in NYC was soliciting funds for a “Save The Nauga” Foundation
or something. They ran ads with impassioned tree-hugger-esque pleas to end the seasonal slaughter of the wild nauga, preserve habitat, set up preserves, maybe start a breeding program, you name it.
Funny.

On topic:
Plastic bags, plastic chanters, plastic drones, plastic regs, plastic reeds ---
I’m okay with all that if they work. I have set of plastic (delrin) SSPs, and they sound fine.
Nice doodling tootling sound , as they should have. Playing them tonight in a coffeehouse.

And synthetic bags have a long track record, and anyone interested should be able to find out if they
can make them really comparable to leather.

Signed,
Piper Trapped In A Fiddlers Body

"… What chemicals and how much energy are used to make a leather bag ? How are the chemicals disposed of?

Full respect for those who eschew animal products but half thought-through environmental arguments may do more harm than good."

Points taken, David05.

Would a Vegan (or Vegetarian) refuse to play in a session in Kilmacow?

Sorry, I tried hard, but couldn’t resist it….

A thought for our OP….my dad was a chemical engineer and spent his life making the raw materials that went to making plastics and synthetic everything. That means that in order for you to use synthetic materials for your pipes, a refinery (probably several refineries) had to be operating around the clock.

I grew up living near one of these refineries in Houston Texas. While I lived there, I had a skin rash on my arms that cleared up a few weeks after I moved out on my own and away from the refineries where my dad worked.

I also do leather work, and I learned how to tan hides from my cousin. The way we do it (which is the homespun frontier way and not the modern city boy factory way) the primary chemical we used is salt.

that’s right, salt

in fact, I have a gig bag for my tenor banjo made from a deer hide. Tom shot the deer and gave me the hide and we tanned it together, Tom showing me some of his tricks for getting a good end product

So what I’m getting at is aside from the fact that an animal had to give up its skin (it was probably already being slaughtered for its meat anyway) but aside from that, the animal hide will be a whole lot more earth friendly than those refineries with their tall distillation towers and flare stacks lighting up the night

but by all means do what your conscience directs

If you’re looking for political correctness in an instrument whose R&D was funded by 18th century aristocrats living in a colony with an estate-based economy, you’re looking in the wrong place!\

Try the V-Pipes?

I first mis-read this as ‘Vulcan Uilleann Pipes’. An interesting development of the VAF!

I remember 25 years or more ago, Paddy Keenan, showing off his bag, in Miltown Malbay, made from a vinyl leatherette material, which he claimed was more elastic, so gave better pressure. Then went on to play Peter Gabriel’s Games People Play.

Or was it a dream?

I remember 25 years or more ago, Paddy Keenan, showing off his bag, in Miltown Malbay, made from a vinyl leatherette material, which he claimed was more elastic, so gave better pressure. Then went on to play Peter Gabriel’s Games People Play.

Or was it a dream?

You *definitely* don’t want a gurgling bottom D on the vulcan pipes, and attempting a 2nd octave B with a hard reed is just asking for trouble.

I don’t even want to know how the drones are tuned on the VUP, but I’m pretty sure there’s a flat fifth in there somewhere..,

" Peter Gabriel’s Games People Play.
Or was it a dream?"

I dunno.
I heard an interesting story about Keenan, and the tune he played in the tale was,
“How Much Is That Doggy In The Window”.

DeDannan use to fool with some unexpected songs and tunes, too.
Like, “Hey Jude”, and the like.

VERY SERIOUS TRADITIONAL MUSICAL RULE NUMBER ONE:
Just have fun.
🙂

Joe South = “Games People Play”.
Peter Gabriel = “Games Without Frontiers”

Ah’ll get ma jaickit………………………………

@Piece
That version of Hey Jude is superb!
🙂

Pachelbels Frolics by Eileen Ivers also falls into this wonderful trad. crossover category.

I have heard that there is a trad. version of ‘Eine Kleine Nachtmusik’. I would certainly like to hear that!

Since somebody brought the subject up……………………….

https://youtu.be/ZPy2KW-_UY0

play video

Would it work out if the bellows leather came from a cow that died of natural causes?