The Kane Sisters?

The Kane Sisters?

Forgive me if this is a controversial opinion, but does anyone else find the Kane Sisters just flat out boring to listen to? I recognize and appreciate the fact that they are talented, extremely competent and technical musicians but I’ve listened to two of their albums on multiple occasions and every time I just find myself throwing on some Bobby Casey or Tommy Peoples soon after. Obviously, they tour the world and have released a few albums to great acclaim so I’m of course in the minority but I’m just wondering if there’s anyone else who holds the same opinion. I just get bored and underwhelmed when I listen to them. I feel the same about Gerry O’Connor.

(also, one of them was charging €50 for hour fiddle lessons! I don’t care how good of a fiddler you are, but no music lesson is worth that much to me! Irrelevant side note)

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Well, this just seems like a mean-spirited thread bashing some fellow musicians! Didn’t your mother ever tell you that if you had nothing nice to say you should say nothing at all? :-p

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I’m not bashing; I’m just saying I don’t feel much when I listen to them, which is in contrast to most other people. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same, about them or any other critically acclaimed musician(s)

Like I said I can appreciate their talent, doesn’t mean I have to force myself to enjoy their studio albums

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There are loads of critically-acclaimed musicians that do little or nothing for me, but they tend not to really register in my consciousness (I’m struggling now to even think of an example!). I think more in terms of musicians that I really enjoy listening to. It does change though - for example it took me quite a while to appreciate what’s great about Micho Russell’s playing, having previously listened mainly to much more ‘polished’ recordings, but now I can’t get enough of his playing.

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Well, a difference of opinion is what makes a horse race. And if you’re mad for the raw power of Bobby Casey and Tommy Peoples, then I can totally see how the twin fiddle chorus-effect sound of Liz and Yvonne might not sit so well for you. Like the difference between a blend and a single malt. But I would urge you to give them a little more time and several more listens — the more I listen to them the more I hear. I think they’re terrific. And in person, they positively sparkle with energy and charisma. Don’t miss them if you ever get a chance.

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I don’t think 50€ for an hour is a too much. I won’t comment on the Kane Sisters but given a proffessional musician who needs to pay the rent/ mortgage, food, school for the kids. You’re paying for years and years of experience and the lessons you learn - if it’s a good teacher - will last you for a long time. Last year I had a lesson by David Munnelly for the same amount and now a year later I still haven’t been able to incorperate everything he told me.

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1. The Kane Sisters play beautifully (in my opinion).
2. €50 an hour is a perfectly reasonable rate for learning from an expert (also in my opinion).

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Mate just play some TUNES and all is well 🙂

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I know several teachers who charge this amount so as to discourage the time wasters. They’re too busy as it is. The students they then get tend to be really motivated to learn.

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This is definitely the case. I have found every time I have increased prices or tightened my policies that my students have improved.

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€50 an hour? Standard rate for any teaching. Music teaching confuses this because of the sheer number of Gumtree chancers who own an instrument and are a page or two ahead of the student in the book.

I’d say at €50ph she’s underselling herself, given her level and profile.

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I really like their playing. So fluid and laid-back, and that makes a change from some of the other players with a much stronger attack.

€50ph is a very reasonable rate (statistically).

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@jebbediahspringfield - I meant to ask you this in my last post.

What fiddlers *do* you like to listen to, and why? I’m just curious.

Thanks.

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Wish I could play like that. Is it something to do with the video frame sizing, I wonder, as the sister with the brown necked instrument appears to have a very much flattened bridge profile?
Alex.

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No, you’re right about the bridge. It’s been flattened out quite a bit. The other fiddle has a nearer standard curvature.

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Now I’ve listened to the videos, amazingly skilled but not what I like about this music so in that sense, I agree with you. For what it’s worth.

Gerry Connor however I enjoy listening to a lot.

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"This is definitely the case. I have found every time I have increased prices or tightened my policies that my students have improved."

I have *got* to quit teaching people for free just to them into ITM. Hasn’t worked so far…

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… she charges more than you would pay, so … she should lower her rate to what you would pay? I don’t understand ….

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<<I have found every time I have increased prices or tightened my policies that my students have improved.>>

Calum, that’s very true for me too. And I charge $60/hour single lesson. However all my students get a bit of a discount for doing this by the month. (Which they all do anyway.) But no make ups for sick days/missed lessons on their end. They get the discount and I don’t have to give my valuable time up another time, which is in effect an extra free time slot on their behalf. I finally figured that out after 30 years at this myself! heh. A few exceptions but that’s studio policies. And TY to any here, for sorting out a bit just WHY an experienced teacher is worth at least $50 (cheap) an hour. 🙂 Heck, my excellent Physical Therapist charges $160/hour. (No, I don’t pay that. lol) But any expert is giving you waaaay more than ‘just’ (music) lessons.

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You pay €80-120ph for a neanderthal to change a tap washer, but €50 is too much for a fiddle teacher?

€50ph may sound a lot compared to what you might earn per hour in a 9-5 job, but remember what she charges isn’t what she earns - there are insurance, accountants, studio rent, advertising etc. etc. to be payed, and she is probably only able to charge for about half the time she actually works, the rest is lesson preparation, gaps between students, admin and so on. I’ve yet to meet a rich music teacher.

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A neanderthal? That’s a bit harsh on the plumbers!.

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Thinking of individuals in the trades by using the n-word is more than a bit harsh, it’s a low blow. As a carpenter who is willing to do plumbing work when it’s called for I’m happy to serve anyone who needs to get the work done. I trust my rates are fair.

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I like the Kane sisters just fine, thanks. I think €50 is perfectly reasonable for a lesson, and I also think referring to plumbers as neanderthals is bad form.

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In my 11 years of learning music on various instruments I’ve never come across a lesson with such a price tag, so forgive me if I’m taken back by it. I have funny views on money, and could just never justify spending that much. It’s not a big deal, I just thought "well she MUST be brilliant so" and felt I was missing out when I bought their albums and wasn’t gripped. Since we’re on the topic, I’m taking lessons from someone who’s playing for over 20 years and their rate is €15

Jim, I find myself almost exclusively listening to the classics - Bobby Casey (my favourite), Tommy Peoples, Dennis Murphy/Julia Clifford, Paddy Canny,James Kelly, Tommy Potts, etc. Why? I’m not sure, but wild primitive emotions run through me when I listen to their CDs, something about that raw sound and approach to it gets me going. I especially love the constant slurs, slides, rolls and sombre touch of Mr Casey’s playing style

Perhaps it’s something to do with modern production values, the polished quality and perfection. I don’t find myself being enthralled by many modern fiddlers, and not due to anyone’s playing capabilities, but for something else I can’t quite put my finger on. Presumably I’d enjoy the Kanes much more live - I’ll keep my eyes peeled

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jebbediahspringfield , thanks for answering my question 🙂

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"A neanderthal? That’s a bit harsh on the plumbers!."

"Thinking of individuals in the trades by using the n-word is more than a bit harsh, it’s a low blow. As a carpenter who is willing to do plumbing work when it’s called for I’m happy to serve anyone who needs to get the work done. I trust my rates are fair."

Jeez I love this board. I’m sure neither of you are neanderthals, I’m sure you are both skilled tradesmen charging an honest rate. But I’m also sure that you are aware that there are plenty of cowboys and neanderthals out there who charge as much or more than you do. People still pay them without question, yet they balk at paying a music tutor a rate that probably leaves them with an unskilled labourer’s wage once the expenses have been covered.

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jebbediahspringfield, I have to ask, is your €15 teacher actually a trained music tutor, or just someone who has played for 20 years and is happily passing on all their bad habits? And are they doing it for a living, or undercutting the professionals for a bit of beer money?

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Yes Mark, they are happily passing on all their bad habits and undercutting professionals for beer money. My teacher isnt even from Ireland would you believe? I forgot Irish music could only be taught through entitled certified professionals

Don’t really mind though, suits a "Neanderthal" like me

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The garage is going to charge €300 for servicing your car? I’ll do it for €150. I’m not a mechanic, but I’ve been driving for 20 years, so I probably know what I’m doing.

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@jebediahspringfield: I think we’re better off celebrating the players of today who really do have some spirit and grit than slagging off by name the ones we find boring. I personally find 95% of contemporary Irish trad music recordings quite dull - it’s either conservative playing, or the playing is great but spoiled by polished, claustrophobic production. But it’s so much more productive to point out what makes that precious 5% of good players good than waste time pointing out why musician X or Y doesn’t thrill you.

Heard the new Tommy Peoples album yet? (‘Fiddlers Hearth’)

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@Mark M, my apologies. I thought from your post that you were taking a swipe at plumbers in general. Of course there are neandarthals, cowboys, w@ankers and bollixes in all walks of life!

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"The garage is going to charge €300 for servicing your car? I’ll do it for €150. I’m not a mechanic, but I’ve been driving for 20 years, so I probably know what I’m doing."

No. Sorry, just no, this is an entirely bad parallel. This would be like comparing instrument maker/maintenance-er to a player, which is not fair.

Staying with cars, it’s like saying that when someone is an experienced enough driver, he can guide you through a driving school instead of a professional instructor. Well… this is actually possible, at least in some countries.

I don’t see a problem learning from people who don’t do teaching professionally - as long as one can tell they’re good players (and not-too-poor teachers, although that cannot be known in advance), why not?

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Folk/traditional music has always been passed on by listening and imitating - with the occasional guiding hand - rather than formal lessons. Long may it continue when the notes of those who see it as an income stream have faded away.

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"No. Sorry, just no, this is an entirely bad parallel. This would be like comparing instrument maker/maintenance-er to a player, which is not fair."

I don’t think it is a bad analogy - playing the fiddle and teaching the fiddle are two completely different skill sets, just as driving and mechanicing are.

I do agree that when it comes to learning the music you need someone who is steeped in the tradition. But when it comes to learning the mechanics of playing the instrument you need someone who knows how to teach. Everyone, even the very best players, have bad habits. As you learn you will develop your own bad habits. So if you learn from a fiddler you’ll land up with their bad habits they’ve passed on, plus your own bad habits. A trained teacher will be aware of their bad habits, and teach you correct technique even if it’s not the way they play themselves, so in the end you only have your own bad habits.

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What someone wants to charge for lessons is their call and there are perfectly good reasons for charging £15 and for charging £50. Depends on your circumstances and what you’re trying to achieve.

Lessons are expensive, but they’re not *that* expensive - 3-4 years of lessons in many places is not even the cost of a decent set of pipes, and four years of lessons should see you a pretty competent musician.

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"Folk/traditional music has always been passed on by listening and imitating - with the occasional guiding hand - rather than formal lessons. Long may it continue when the notes of those who see it as an income stream have faded away."

That’s great for the lucky few who grow up in three generation deep musical families, learning at grandpa’s knee. But for the rest of us, without professionals there would be nothing to listen to and learn from - no CDs, no summer schools, probably no ITM at all - it was, after all, professional musicians who resurrected this music in the 1970s. These people aren’t doing it to get rich at your expense (if that was their aim they would be playing country and oirish or some other lucrative drivel) the reason they look to make money out of their playing is simply so that they can devote enough time to it to do it well.

Yes, music is passed on by listening and imitating, but most of the time it is being passed on that way from professional to enthusiast.

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Mark - obviously someone who charges €50 as opposed to €15 will do a better job teaching. The €35 mark up is the result of being a certified professional and critically acclaimed/recognized musician, I’m sure that’s clear to everyone. But what I don’t agree with is your position that an informal, casual teacher is just some cheapskate alcoholic looking for a few quid, who has a poor understanding of teaching and playing.

My teacher, though informal and lacking any official music degree or what have you, has 20+ years of experience playing Irish music, and tons of references to back his unofficial credentials. I saw his ad, gave him a ring and he stalled over. He played a few tunes, which to my ears sounded superb. I played a few tunes and he corrected me and gave me tips on my bow hold, posture, intonation, tempo, embellishment, etc etc. Where I am on the fiddle, I leave each lesson feeling that I’ve learned a lot, and eagerly await next week’s lesson. What he does for me as a teacher suits me just fine. I’ve had "professional" teachers on other instruments where lessons were a lot more structured and more analysis was given but I could’ve just as easily learned from informal teachers and yielded positive results. I haven’t noticed any bad habits so far and even if I have developed some I’ve noticed nothing but improved fiddling, so if that’s the case then let the bad habits roll.

Like cathal says folk music has been passed down for hundreds of years through listening/imitating with a guiding hand. I don’t see why now a 50 quid certified professional lesson is the only way to go about learning.

"Yes, music is passed on by listening and imitating, but most of the time it is being passed on that way from professional to enthusiast." - I couldn’t disagree more, almost every trad player I know (and I know plenty) learned trad music from their friends or family, none of whom are professionals.

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It’s not a "€35 markup". It’s the sort of rate a freelance needs to charge to cover their costs and make a living .

Assuming inclusion of an hour of preparation time €15/hour is less than the minumum wage in the UK. I have never had a private music lesson, but I have arranged workshops and checked out the going rate for teachers in adult education. €50/hour is, as Jim says above, a very reasonable rate. It’s close to what I paid a local freelance physiotherapist to sort out my wrist**

**note to lefty Brits - there is no such service locally on the NHS unless it prevents someone from working. The doctor who told me that pointed out that the private physio was about the cost of a music lesson and as things were would do more for my playing…

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Jebbediah, "I couldn’t disagree more, almost every trad player I know (and I know plenty) learned trad music from their friends or family, none of whom are professionals."

That’s a lovely notion, but it has little to do with reality, unless you happen to live in a very remote rural community where they have been playing the same repertoire for generations. I don’t know a single musician who doesn’t pick up tunes from recordings or from paper. Almost all the tunes played in sessions today were either resurrected and made popular, or even written, by professional musicians from the 1970s onwards.

If you are happy with your teacher that is fine (though it’s interesting that you started this thread to criticize a professional for charging the going rate for doing their job, and still seem to be railing against professionals earning an honest crust, yet you are quite happy to pay someone untrained and unqualified to do the exact same job.) But you must realize that without professionals, without the likes of Planxy and De Dannan and the Chieftains the music would have died out decades ago. Without the likes of Liz Carroll and Martin Hayes today there would be no interest in ITM and we wouldn’t be here having this discussion. A music genre without professional musicians would be about as effective as an army with no officers.

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"What someone wants to charge for lessons is their call" - this is entirely the point, end of story, no more to be said (but that won’t stop me). I have ‘funny ideas about money’ too - but I just don’t understand why someone would want to take a shot on-line at a music teacher for what they charge.

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Some ideas (last two lines) about money from a musician long gone:

Musicks a Crotchet the Sober thinks it Vain
The Fiddles a Wooding Projection
Tunes are but Flights of a Whimsical Brain
Which the Bottle brings best to Parfection
Musisians are half witted mery and madd
And Those are the same that admire Them
Theyr fools if they Pley unless their Well Paid
And the Others are Blockheads to Hire them.

The web site that would show a scan of the original seems to be off-line, so we will have to rely on where I copied it from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Vickers_manuscript

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"Musisians are half witted mery and madd
And Those are the same that admire Them
Theyr fools if they Pley unless their Well Paid
And the Others are Blockheads to Hire them. "

lolol…very clever!

After half a century in this I probably would agree to being half witted mery and madd, and am most grateful to the blockheads who hire me to play or teach. I am also sometimes the fool who will accept being underpaid - or not at all, to perform for the love of it. Like most of the rest of you. ;)

Gotta get ready for my 11:00, um … student.

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In terms of style they’re part of a tradition of very relaxed understated players who have more of an ebb and flow approach rather than the excited push and gallop you often hear in other styles. I tend to think of it as being more of a kitchen table style rather than a session in the pub or dance hall way of playing. It doesn’t try to reach out and grab you, more asks you to settle down while they share a tune with you. It doesn’t get over excited, but players like that can pick it up and go for it if they want to. I would call it ‘easy’ in the irish sense of easy does it. It’s great for intimate surroundings, but would be wallpaper in a larger setting. As with any stylistic approach it’s bound to leave some people completely disengaged if it doesn’t speak to their understanding or tastes. That’s why there are styles within styles and some prove more popular than others.

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All the qualifications, resumes, experience, and education in the world don’t mean a thing if the teacher is not intrinsically a good teacher to begin with. All those things might enhance their ability, but they don’t determine it. Don’t fall into the trap that more expensive = better. Price and qualification are a good place to start, yes, but far from definitive.

And then there are technical details. A good teacher needs to be a solid player, but does not have to be a virtuoso. In fact, in my experience across multiple teachers and styles is the opposite. The most intelligent academically seemed to be worse teachers than those who were more practical-minded. Not definitvely, of course, but this goes back to my initial point about "good teacher" being an intrinsic trait.

In this area, there precious few teachers who can play in an "authentic" Irish style. I doubt this makes them a poor teacher. Any good teacher will recommend listening material. (How many flute teachers recommend Matt Malloy albums while admitting there nowhere near his ability?) If it weren’t for cds and videos, I’d be screwed. Does that dilute the music etc? Sure, but when we’re 5000 miles from Ireland, we take what we can get. I’m just thankful that there is good music to be had. If there weren’t irish CDs, there’s a good chance that I never would have picked up the fiddle at all.

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[*In terms of style they’re part of a tradition of very relaxed understated players ……*]

Very well put, Beanzy. I really do like their style, as I said before.

I like fiddlers for different reasons. Frankie Gavin for his punchy style (although I think he plays some tunes too quickly) , some of the older past players for their pure raw energy, Martin Hayes for his lovely clear tone, Liz Carroll for the creativity in her compositions, plus many, many more.

I think jebbediahspringfield was right in expressing his opinion - it was just a straightforward expression of personal choice, and was in no way mean-spirited, imo. There are some fiddler players whose styles I dislike too, but I won’t go into that again, as the last time I voiced my opinion on that one, I then got the musical equivalent of a corkscrew up my bum 🙂

On the subject of being taught solely in the *true* traditional style, the very knowledgeable ex-member "Hurler in the ditch" was a product of that. He often referred to the teachers as "exemplars", and said that sometimes it can take up to twenty years to attain that true traditional sound. That is one extreme, admittedly, but if we take his words in good faith, then it shows that that is the way things still are in some places in Ireland.

His posts are still in the discussions somewhere, but as he had unsubscribed from this site, his name is no longer attributed to them.

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This is an interesting discussion.

The range of expression in this music is one of it’s greatest strengths. Before my music diet was almost exclusively ITM I listened a wide variety of music Mostly rock, plus some blues or reggae or whatever I would chose to match my mood. Now days it’s really no different. Sometimes I want something fast and driving, sometimes I want something soothing, sometimes I want something old and raw, sometimes I want something that will just blend into the back ground, sometime I want something that makes me wish I could dance - etc, etc. This music has me covered.

As far as lessons go, the real value is what you are learning and not how much you are paying. I once attended a Frankie Gavin workshop a couple of years after I picked up the fiddle. He went around and we all played for him a little bit. Everyone got specific feedback and I think everyone probably learned from everyone else’s feedback too. I know I did. Those that had it together, he would join in with. He even joined in with me on Rose in the Heather until I opened my eyes, realized I was playing with Frankie Gavin and completely choked. 🙂 But my point is that after five minutes’ attention from Himself, he laid it out for me. "Do this at least 5 minutes a day for at least a week, and don’t even worry about playing a tune". My playing improved more in the next week than it had in the previous 9 months! And it was probably another six months of work before the lesson was fully incorporated unconsciously into my playing. One shot. A five minute lesson. I don’t even remember what it cost me. How do you put a price on that?

No teacher can ever teach you to do what can’t. They can give you the basics to get you started, but don’t stick around after that if they can’t play what you want to play. It’s all diminishing returns after that. Don’t waste a second of your time on anything that isn’t part of the sound you hear in your head. They will give you scales and arpeggios and exercises to keep you coming back week after week until you finally cry Uncle. Don’t fall for it. This music is so much more than the sum of it’s parts. They can’t give you the synergy because they don’t have it. Go away and figure it out on your own. Take what you can from anyone who is willing to help. Much of it will contradict what the last one said. Neither is right and neither is wrong. Go away and figure out. Play with people that are better than you as often as you can, but be mindful not to spoil their fun. Many of your favorites who are still living give lessons, more and more of them will do it over the internet on Skype. If you can only afford a couple of lessons a year, do it. A great lesson will easily give you 6 months of stuff to fully incorporate into your playing. Know what you want from them, how do *they do *this, or what do you hear/see that I need to fix. Don’t let them go on autopilot and just show you a tune. Have them show you how to improve the tunes you are already working on.

And one last thing, to the OP, our ‘stars’ are not like pop stars. ITM is a small world largely filled with good down to Earth people. Posting a thread like this is not like throwing yet another ‘Beiber sux’ comment into the gaping void of youtube. When/if you you do get a chance to hear the Kane sisters live, you will not only appreciate them more as you say, you will be completely caught up in the magic of the moment, and you will probably get to meet and talk to them if you wish, you will most likely even have the opportunity to attend a workshop. Yes, for a fee. They have to make a living like everyone else. The are free to charge what they wish and you are free to take it or leave it, At some point you will probably think of this thread, and regret having made it.

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People like what they like, but I don’t see the point in posting on a public forum, "I don’t like that person’s playing." Yeah, okay, so what? Especially in a world as small as traditional music, where you might very well run into that person at a session or festival, unless you’re kvetching about Willie Clancy’s playing (it’s been done here). You’re not likely to see him at a session.

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Anyone daring to kvetch about Willie’s playing had better hope they never run into me at a festival, or they could find themselves staring down the barrel of a whistle 😀

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"I’m just saying I don’t feel much when I listen to them, which is in contrast to most other people. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same, about them or any other critically acclaimed musician(s)"

I feel a bit the same way, but that’s exactly why I love to listen to them. They are refreshingly different in a world of over-produced, canned spam, pyro-technical productions. Don’t get me wrong, I love the gunslingers as much as the next guy, but the Kane Sisters are a refreshing break. They don’t really play music badly, they just simply play the tunes, and we hear that so little these days.

As for the price of a music lession, I much prefer to go to a weekend workshop or music festival where for one small sum I can get a day or two of lessions from the pros, food, fun, jammin’ and frolickin’.

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Well, never having heard of them before this thread, I was pleasantly surprised when I checked them out on YouTube. From the initial thread I was expecting their music to be that kind of cloying, over-produced, reverb-heavy, technically-very-impressive-but-musically-soulless, twee kind of thing that I’m sure we have all encountered too many times on adverts or wherever.. Not at all! They don’t even play that slowly – mid-paced I would say. I enjoyed this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBoHbHnjEB0

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I’ve done workshops with both Liz and Yvonne, and they are both charming and excellent teachers. I bought their albums after meeting them and seeing them perform live, so for me it’s as much enjoying their skills as it is remember the people behind them.

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Yes, I would like to thank the OP for introducing me to these two delightful fiddlers …..

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I get bored listening to most albums of Irish trad. The reason for me is that too many of them sound like sessions. That was all well and good when I was new to the music, but now I look for arrangements like the Bothy Band or the Chieftains do. Otherwise, I listen very sparingly these days to albums of "pure drop" playing. But I find myself wondering why the OP singled out this particular duo for criticism.

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That’s interesting, Ailin. For me it’s quite the opposite. Maybe we should swap recordings 🙂.
One other thing that bothers me somewhat. I wish people wouldn’t judge other musicians solely on their output as recording artists, although I realise that in probably the majority of cases this is all that people can go on. I’ve heard many recordings of musicians which haven’t particularly appealed to me, but have been pleasantly surprised when hearing them "in the flesh" - whether on stage, or in a session situation. There are many, many recordings out there which do not do justice to the musician, probably due to studio nerves, which I’m sure many, myself included, are all too familiar with. Which brings me back to my original point - a live recording in a pub is bound to be a far more relaxed environment to play music in than the somewhat artificial environment of a recording studio, especially if you are not a professional musician. I still rate "Paddy In The Smoke" - for all the roughness in its’ recording - as one of the greatest recordings of traditional Irish music of all time.
And I will say this about Liz Kane - I saw her in a session in Mullagh a few years ago during the Willie Clancy week, and was totally enthralled by her playing. The sisters’ playing on their recordings was very restrained compared to her playing that night, she was really letting rip.
If nothing else, this thread hasn’t been a total waste of time if it’s introduced some people to the Kane sisters’ music.

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And thanks for the mention of Paddy in the Smoke - just looked it up - that’s how I like my music served!

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I’m with you Kenny. The older I get, and the longer I’ve been playing, the more pure I like my drop.

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"Jeez I love this board. I’m sure neither of you are neanderthals, I’m sure you are both skilled tradesmen charging an honest rate. "

The ironic part is that most likely you are Neandertals, at least partially. There are very good studies showing that almost all Europeans share some small amount of Neandertal DNA - mine is about 2.5% of my gene load - so maybe another analogy is in order.

Mike Keyes

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"I don’t see a problem learning from people who don’t do teaching professionally - as long as one can tell they’re good players (and not-too-poor teachers, although that cannot be known in advance), why not?"

I would agree Jakub… 🙂 although "not-too-poor" may not be a description of a stellar teacher. lol And actually, it can absolutely be known in advance what to expect through word of mouth, advertising that includes references, so on. Also, if you can hear their students. It’s how I get most of mine. From all of that. Also from other teachers.

Professional or not however, I believe it’s continually improving at being a teacher and learning one’s craft that results in the experience people would want to pay for. So I’d be happy to ask was it Mark? to fix my car for 150 vs 300, with his 20 years of experience and of course, knowing that he has done good work before. :D And with being a musician, you can learn lots from all kinds of teachers.

I think the Kane sisters are very good players, and I’d certainly enjoy seeing them live, since that was the main thread, too. But the OP had to know his "irrelevant side note" wasn’t going to get unnoticed by many here who do teach. lol

Re: The Kane Sisters?

"….There are very good studies showing that almost all Europeans share some small amount of Neandertal DNA…"

Mike…too funny! Only thing more fun was finding out that people in my haplo group (or something) are directly related to Otzi, the iceman found on a mountain some years ago.

The way I figure it, there’s GOT to be some Irish in there between cousin Otzi and ME!

Re: The Kane Sisters?

There are lots of good musicians that I don’t care to listen to, because they don’t suit my tastes, but I see no value in taking to the internet to complain about them. It is far more productive to talk about what you do like. Not to mention far more polite.

Re: The Kane Sisters?

I don’t get why people should not be allowed to post what they don’t like about some musician. The argument "so what?" works both ways. If you tell me you love some musician, I could answer "So what? Who cares, go play some tunes". It’s a public forum and I’m as interested in someone’s negative opinion as the positive, not sure why criticizing a musician should be seen as impolite? It’s all subjective anyway, they’re all opinions. Anyway, I guess that’s just me.

I personally like the Kane Sisters, but I must admit it’s because I tend to like "polished" trad music. If you’re into older stuff, you might find their playing a bit "sterile". I don’t see any problem with that.

Re: The Kane Sisters?

Liz Kane is an all Ireland fiddler with several popular albums, lots of gigs and
an international profile. Yvonne Kane - not an all Ireland but has classical training
to make up for it. 50 Euro seems reasonable and they are they are the real thing -
Galway fiddlers.