Wish I’d started learning at an earlier point

Hello, I know I just posted yesterday but I need to get this off my chest. I’m only 16 but I can’t shake this thought that I’ve had for a while. The thought being that no matter what I’ll never have as much experience as someone who started at a younger age and it just makes me sad that I’ll never be as good. Chances are that when I eventually do meet other musicians my age that they were born into the tradition and will have been playing since they were children. I can’t compete with that and or keep up with that. I just worry I will be years behind every other musician that is my age. For example, Edel Fox (who’s older than me but probably not by that much I don’t know) has been playing since she was 6 years of age and released her first recording at the age of 18. It makes me rather jealous I suppose that I won’t be skilled enough by that age to do the same. I love this music and want to be one of the best, but how can I be when there are people who will ALWAYS be years ahead of me in experience no matter what? I don’t know if what I just typed makes any sense or if it makes me sound selfish (sorry if it does) It’s just a thought that’s been lingering in my mind recently and it’s really getting me down. I thought sharing this thought would help ease the sadness a little.

Thanks for reading my rambles!!! 🙂

I know Edel Fox plays the concertina BTW but the point stands nonetheless.

I started at an early age, but also stopped playing for years (decades), I also wonder how good I would be today if I had kept playing continuously. But the main thing in music is to enjoy it, are you enjoying playing? If you are enjoying it, you will practice it and naturally get better. As for being “one of the best” at something, beyond a certain point in skill, the title of “the best” is very subjective. I am sure you play your instrument well, and if you enjoy playing then others will enjoy listening.

Don’t be too concerned about being the best, just enjoy it. I started playing at the age of 30 and I’ve enjoyed every minute of it. Also, would you really want to be the best? It’d be lonely at the top I reckon. Always better to have people to aspire to. The great thing about music is you never stop getting better, there’s endless room for improvement.

I suppose being the best would be boring maybe a better phrase would be “I wish to achieve a certain level of skill with my instrument by the age of 18 but it’s just not possible” or “I wish to master my instrument like those who came before me Micho Russell and Mary Bergin” I suppose that sums up more of what I feel.

Kellie, Kellie Kellie! First off a bit of philosophical advice:- Never regret anything that you can do nothing about. It’s a complete waste of energy. Secondly, you are ONLY 16 years old. I don’t think it’s possible for you to understand just how young that still is. You have shown yourself on this site to be absolutely enthusiastic and passionate about what you are doing and I’m sure that many of us have been very impressed by that. But you need to a watch that you don’t let your enthusiasm bring you down. You are doing really well so just learn to temper your enthusiasm with the equally important factor of patience. And there is no guarantee that had you started at an earlier age that you would have gained any ground on where you are now. You will find that you are ready for different things at different times of your life. I never touched a fiddle till I was 57, and for me, it just turned out to be the perfect time. Regret nothing you can do nothing about, and don’t get drawn and distracted by an overly enthusiastic and imagined future. Just enjoy the ever present experience and you will get there for sure.

Thanks Gobby! I’ll take everything you’ve said to heart. 🙂

I also started playing tin whistle and trad music at 16 so I understand what you mean 🙂

No matter how early you start, there will always be someone out there “with more experience”. It’s even more frustrating when someone comes along years after you started and surpass your level!

If you enjoy your music, practice when you can, play in sessions and learn from others when you can. I like going to folk festivals to hear different artists, it’s amazing to hear kids who had the chance to study at folk academies and I try not to be too disheartened and compare them to myself. Think of all the people who only get a chance to start learning instruments when their own kids have grown up and they’re retired!

Why does it matter how good you are and when you learn? If you really put effort and time towards it, you can get where ever you’d like. I love playing Irish music, and I would love it if I was struggling through the Kesh or killing the Golden Eagle. It doesn’t matter if you record, nor when, all that matters is that you love it. It helps if you’re good enough, considerate enough and perceptive enough to be able to play so that you and those you play with are comfortable, and that’s certainly a healthy goal, but there’s not much that comes out of being a prodigy that can’t wait a few more years, or decades… Look at the great Joe Derrane, who was recording sides when he was still in highschool and playing in the dancehalls no less. The guy ended up taking a 25 year break from the box and came back better than ever. Similarly, many pipers didn’t strap on their first set until they were highschool age or older.
Honestly, I’m glad I didn’t approach Irish music until I was in my later teen years. I cringe when I think of myself a year ago -- imagine if I had experiences to hide from from two years back!!!

Have you ever thought Kellie, that no matter how good you ever get, that you will NEVER be satisfied with it. But that’s a good thing because if you did finally get satisfied, there would be nothing left. You have to learn to accept and feed off that ever driving dissatisfaction while not allowing it to start feeding off you.

What’s up with all these female concertina players you keep talking about? 😛

Edel Fox is probably pushing 25 or 30 by now. (Wild guess, I actually have never heard her age, but have been hearing her play for close to a decade now)

While I understand your frustration - started at 28 myself - you really should worry about how to become a better player moving forward. If you want the fastest route, there is only one answer: total immersion. Have a plan for the future, but focus on the present. Listen 8 hours a day to the music if you can. Focused, deliberate practice. Get to a ceili or two or even some sean nos workshops. Dancing to the music will help a ton. Make musical friends. Etc. I had a several month stretch (hello, unemployment) where I listened several hours a day and practiced probably 4 hours in two or three shifts. My progress was absolutely amazing, even at 30 years of age.

Humans are remarkable creatures, and even at 16, our brains are still physically developing. The more you immerse yourself now the better your growth will be. I’m not saying to stop everything else in your life, but get yourself a plan. IMO, the listening is the most important thing. It is like low-level practicing, and if you can do it on commutes, or walks, during homework, during housework etc, it will add up. In addition to ingraining the tradition, it’s the equivalent of 20 extra minutes(or whatever) of practice per day.

Hey what can I say I guess I have thing for gals who can play the concertina. 😛

And for those who don’t, hey Kellie?

I don’t know there’s just something about Females who have the ability to play concertina that makes my heart flutter. I can’t explain it.

That are not EXTREMELY older than me I’ll just make that clear right now.

I hear ya, Kellie. Let me tell you a story:

I was always very musical, but my parents had a bad experience when my older brother tried his hand at sax, so they never fostered my interest. When I was in middle school, I had a friend in a community youth band who encouraged me to join as a banner carrier in the parades just for the social aspect. When I got into high school, the band director took me aside and asked me if I would be interested in joining my high school marching band. He said he could get me playing clarinet well enough over the summer to pass an audition. I did, but felt very intimidated to be beside kids who had been playing since grade school, although I did okay.

When I was a senior, I got inspired to play flute after hearing Ian Anderson of the rock band Jethro Tull. It wasn’t until I turned thirty that I encountered Irish music, so again I felt like I was waaaay behind. I was not only a latecomer, but not having been brought up with the music, I always felt (and to some extent, still do) like an imposter, an imitator, an outsider.

I’m now 64 (wheeze), and I look back at over thirty years of some great times with tremendous satisfaction. I am still improving and making discoveries about playing flute in the Irish style, and having more fun playing than ever. I just took part in the recording of a CD called (interestingly) The Session. Two years ago, I recorded an album with Irish harper Dennis Doyle called Irish Gifts (both available on the CD Baby website). The best days lie ahead.

So, draw your own conclusions about what my story implies for yours.

Cheers, my friend.

Kellie, I want you to know that I want you to be as you say, one of the best. I admire beyond words your youthful enthusiasm. With that in mind I’m gonna offer some tough love. I doesn’t matter how old you are, never has, never will. Gee you’re just 16, playing for what, a year, and aren’t the best in the world! How does that happen? So a few kids learned younger than you and made it. Did you ever wonder how many learned young and didn’t? Of course not. Nobody keeps lists of them. So if learning young isn’t the answer what is? Most likely it’s the fact that to be good at anything you gotta pay your dues. It’s not easy. You have to be disciplined and work hard. The harder something is, the more you need to pay attention to it. Nobody ever got good at anything by ignoring the hard stuff. Whether it’s Irish music, golf, or sumo wrestling, there will always be somebody better, and you’ll always be better than somebody and those are the best reasons I can think of to quit worrying about it. Don’t make this a competition, that would really be something to be sad about. Be the best musician that Kellie can be. Hitch up your underoos and pay your dues. That’s how you be a better player and a better you. Comparing yourself to others is a losing game. You’re better than that! Good luck, You’ve got a lot of us on your side.

Well said Ross.

Starting young is no guarantee of success. Plenty of kids in Ireland play a bit of whistle in primary school here, some will take a liking to it, many others reject it as culchie crap foisted on them by the school, others reject it as it’s something their parents or siblings like and so on.

Where you are at more of a disadvantage, is your geographical location. I’ve made this point before and people like to reject it, but it helps a deal if you are brought up in the same social milieu, landscape and climate as where the music sprang from. Not much you can do about that except perhaps aim to take a college course or working holiday, extended trip in Ireland in a few years.

“I love this music and want to be one of the best”

Well, there’s several things to say about that.

1. This is music, not athletics. I know it might sometimes seem like that, what with all the different traditional music competitions out there - All-Ireland this and that – but even those are ultimately about music, not about who can play the fastest roll (though the trouble with ‘competition culture’ is that they inevitably encourage a bit of that). Forget about your peers, forget about those younger than you: if you are ‘competing’ with anyone, it’s with your influences. Listen to the musicians you love, who may or may not play the same instrument as you, and focus on them, not some 10 year old who happens to be able to play really fast.

2. You talk about “being the best” and recording albums - do I take it you want to do this for a professionally, for a living? Do you plan to study music at university? Judging by your enthusiasm, I don’t see why you shouldn’t – in fact I deeply regret not deciding to try to become a professional musician when I was in my early 20s. (I never really pursued the idea, thinking it was just a silly impossibility, whereas in reality it’s something you can give yourself till you’re at least 30 to make a go of!) That said, be realistic: there aren’t any millionaire, chart-topping Irish whistle players out there. If professional musician is going to be your vocation, and Irish traditional whistle playing is going to be your main focus, then you’re going to have to be pretty ingenious to make money out of it: every professional musician I know does things like teaching, a covers function band, a ceilidh band for weddings etc.

3. You’re 16 - you have a lot of time. I’m uneasy about saying this, but there’s no reason in theory why you shouldn’t become as technically adept as the child prodigy wunderkind types you’re referring to. Do your practice every day. Whip your whistle out whenever you have a spare moment. But, to repeat, I’m uneasy about saying this because being “the best” in music is in my opinion the wrong way of looking at it – music isn’t football. Many of the so-called “best” Irish musicians don’t really do it for me: amazing technical ability might coincide with great musicality, but it might not. And then there’s commercial success - selling albums and gig tickets – which is a whole other thing altogether and ultimately has very little to do with technical ability and far more to do with ambition, organisation, staying power and self-motivation. (If Micho Russell had been 16 today, I very much doubt he’d have even been noticed, I’m sad to say, simply because his style wasn’t very showy and I get the impression he wasn’t a self-publicist who would have been out there promoting his music via bandcamp, soundcloud etc etc)

4. Make sure that you know what you want, and establish what being “the best” actually means to you. That way you can cut out all the exterior crap and focus on the important stuff: having one achievable goal is so much better than trying to be good at everything. If I were you, and I wanted to be “the best” at tin whistle, I’d stop trying to compose tunes etc and just focus on practicing a small number of tunes until they are really, really good. Work on getting, say, 5 tune-sets together that you can play 100% perfectly, every time. That, to me, would be the first step to being a professional.

If you didn’t start as a kid theres no going back and changing that now, so why worry about it? It’s all about how much time and effort you put into it from now on. To paraphrase Seamus Ennis, it takes seven years of learning, seven years of practicing and seven years of playing to master the music.

Rather than spend time worrying, spend it learning.

Harrumph. As a teacher I’m more and more convinced that adult learners can be just as good as someone who started in the womb - with the right attitude and instruction. One of my best learners at the moment is a retired woman closer to seventy than sixty and she’s showing every sign of being capable of maturing into a more than useful performer.

I started young - age about 18. Then after a few years hardly touched an instrument for a very long time. Now starting again age 72 and been at it for 4 years. Might make it to the Albert Hall - who knows!
Being 16 is nothing to worry about.
NB I’ve never met a musician “born into the tradition” and I doubt many of them exist at all.

I am 20 (few days from being 21) and have been playing for almost a year. To be honest I’ve had moments of wishing I had started when I was younger. But that is only a minor regret I feel to the one I would have had, had I never started at all.
I also think it may be better to start when you’re older especially if by your own choice, as you can appreciate it more. A lot of kids who may have had it pushed on them, may have ended up disliking or even resenting the music because of the pressure from adults.

You’re a mere teenager and have barely played for a year….

I was older than you are now when I picked up the trad music bug and I get a lot from it now in my mid-twenties. Give it time.

I totally understand how you feel - the first time I went across to a summer school in Ireland, there were kids playing music everywhere. It seemed at the time that they were all younger, had been playing for years, knew more tunes, their parents all played… there was, I felt, a level of immersion that I hadn’t been anywhere near and which I felt I’d missed out on.

It’s true that you can’t beat starting young for technical competence, particularly on things like the pipes or concertina where a lot of physical memory is required just to play the thing. Equally so fiddle. But I’d say this - how many seven-year-olds have the same determination that you’re showing? How many have that level of motivation without being pushed by their parents?

The truth is that you can’t start too late, but you can start too young. Learning as a teenager requires something that teenagers are awful at - having patience. Getting good takes time: years, not weeks. Decades not months. Play as often as you can with the best people you can find to play with. Listen more. But remember, don’t sicken yourself, or you’ll be like so many of those kids that I felt intimidated by once upon a time. Too many of them ‘burn out’ - they don’t last. They don’t maintain the interest that you’re showing into their teenage years, and sometimes they don’t come back to it until they’re adults. I’ve taught a lot of people in that situation, and they regret starting ‘too young’ and then giving up. I’m going to do my best Ent impression. “Don’t be Hasty.”

Kellie, you’re only 16. I mean yea, there’s science that says kids absorb things faster at a young age and that plays a part in how well they develop skill, but there’s another factor that plays a huge part in how good you become. That, my friend, is work ethic. If you put in the time, you will improve. But you have to put in the work. No, you may not release an album by 18, but there are plenty of musicians(myself included) who started at a young age and are still working towards becoming better. I started when I was 7 and I haven’t released an album yet, and I’m 25. Not everyone jumps into the professional world that fast, and that’s ok.

The beautiful thing about our minds I s that we can always learn and improve. You’re about 10 years younger than me right? Imagine if you practiced every day, for an hour, for the next 10 years. Imagine that every month, you learned a new tune or two, righteously, for the next 10 years. Imagine that every 6 months, you worked through a new method book by a composer you respected, for the next 10 years. Do you know how amazing you would be? Can you imagine how far you will have brought yourself if you put in that kind of effort?

You have to have faith in yourself. If you don’t have faith in yourself, at the least have faith in your amazing humanity. We can do wonderful and amazing things if we give ourselves a chance. Give yourself a chance, and stop feeling sorry for yourself. You have plenty of time to become excellent. But if you doubt yourself, and slack off, and don’t give yourself a chance, excellence will elude you. Put in the work, enjoy the journey, and be compassionate with yourself.

If you need any help or advice, I am always available. I personally mentored my Best Friends younger sister on piano, and she was 16 when she started. She kept in touch with me, took a couple of music workshops with me, signed up for a couple of music classes in school, and she took herself to an impressive standard in 2 years. I didn’t actively teach her. She only messaged me for help every several weeks. Sometimes I wouldn’t hear from her for months. I only gave her 3, maybe 4 workshops. And she told me the classes they gave her in school were just for practice. She put in all the work, I just sent her off into a good direction. Sometimes that’s all it takes.

Whatever the case, I wish you well Kellie, and if you don’t remember anything I said here, remember this: You can be excellent.

Cheers!

First the bad news; you will never be as good as you want to be. Not if you are constantly aspiring to be your absolute best. So in order that where you have to go doesn’t seem so far, look backwards and see from where you have come. Your former self was a klutz compared to your present self. Think about just learning that first tune, those trembling baby steps on the instrument. If I compare myself with the musical community in general, I am a study in mediocrity. If I compare myself with my used to be self, I am a rock star! You just have to know when to look back, and when to look forward. If you practice every day and improve by only one percent each day; in one year you will be three and one half times a better musician.

“in one year you will be three and one half times a better musician.”

Actually, 38 times better - the amazing power of compunding.

Immersion and listening are key.

For listening live: Cincinnati’s not too far, Cleveland’s not too far, Toronto’s not too far, Chicago’s not all that far, Ann Arbor/Detroit are pretty close really, and there are things happening in all those places. Cincinnati has regular events, especially through the Riley School of Music. There are some fantastic players in Cleveland (Brian Holleran for example). Ann Arbor, MI is closer, and there are concerts, a session, and other events happening around there and Detroit as well. There’s a CCE branch where you can find teachers (my wife and I both teach tin whistle through that) and a slow session, and support for learning.

For immersion: Toronto has the Chris Langan weekend coming up (chrislangan.ca), which might be the closest irish music weekend to you. A bit further away in St Louis is the St Louis Tionol (tionol.org) end of April, and then in May the Midwest Fleadh. In the summer is the Catskills Irish Arts Week in East Durham NY catskillsirishartsweek.com and the Milwaukee Irish Music Summer School (in Milwaukee WI) irishfestsummerschool.com

Get out to something. I started tin whistle when I was 19 and uilleann pipes when I was 21, and having a teacher nearby, but also having weekends and weeks to go to really made a huge difference. You need to go and be immersed in the music. You don’t have to go to Ireland for that.

16 is young. You’ve got lots of time to get excellent. But I’d strongly recommend not making being a professional musician your goal. Make playing the music well your goal, and see how it turns out.

It isn’t about being better or even about being good --
it’s about freeing your soul.

…it’s not about being old or young, either.

Realize that we all have regrets about not finding things (or people) we love sooner. I think those are the healthy regrets because they are easily refuted with the reminder that you may not have gotten as much out of it if you’d found it sooner. I wish I’d fought harder to get into the Irish music world sooner but would I have been a professional oboist if I had taken of pipes when I wanted to in college? I wish I could have done Irish dance as a kid, there were no schools here and I wouldn’t have met the neat people I met when I was able to take up Irish Dance.
What I’m hearing from you Kellie is much more akin to the jealousy of ‘I want what they have’ or a lack of confidence that you can master this. You want to be someone else. That’s not a useful feeling for anyone. Part of mastery is accepting and taking joy in what you’ve got right now. Setting goals is important but focus on mastery-style goals rather than external kinds of goals like Matt was saying above. The outside stuff will come, or it won’t, but focusing on learning and mastering style, etc will keep you motivated along the way and hopefully help you maintain the burning passion for the music you have now.

Don’t look back. Pick up your whistle, duct tape it to your face and sprint into the sun! I’ll meet you there.

ff

I can’t find that many people play with around here I have to go all the way up to Ann arbor for a session twice a month. Toledo doesn’t really have alot to offer when it comes to Irish Trad.

Hang on in there, Kellie. Look into ways you can immerse yourself more in traditional music in the future, when you have a bit more independence. Perhaps now is the time to start saving your pennies for a trip to Ireland in a couple of years - or maybe think about some way of beng resident there (or even somewhere in the US with a good trad scene - Boston, Chicago, New York?) for a while. In the meantime, take whatever opportunities you have now and keep up the enthusiasm.

If you waste your time and energy now wishing your past had been different, then in 10 years time, you’ll be looking back and wishing you had made more of those 10 years.

Ah , the thing is Kellie, most people attain a level that suits them then rest on their laurels . Don’t be that person, be the one who never stops learning, who always practices and perfects their art beyond the ordinary , be extraordinary, outstanding, amazing just because you can, because you enjoy the experience , because it’s fun.
That way you’ll overtake many who started before you…. but it’s not a race, just be the best YOU can be and don’t look around comparing who’s better! There will always be somebody better than you …. 🙂

Kellie - don’t be in such a hurry. I only started playing when I was 16 too, in Scotland, no players of Irish music within a 50 mile radius. We had to try to learn to play from LP records or tape recordings - no internet in those days. Actually, there were very few recordings of traditional Irish music at that time either - I’m talking of early 1970s here. You are already a better whistle player in the 10 months you’ve been playing than I was in maybe 5 years since I first started. I wish I’d started learning earlier too, but none of us can change that, that’s all history, so looking backwards is pointless.
I have been very lucky in my life to be in the right musical place at the right time on many occasions, and was around at the explosion of interest in Irish traditional music - from which I would contend, Scotland followed on - when “Boys Of The Lough”, “Planxty”, then the “Bothy Band” were getting started. As you can probably guess, it’s become something of an obsession with me ever since, but I’ve made friends all over the world through this music, and you will too, I’m sure. Keep playing, keep practicing, learn the tunes, and above all, listen to as many players as you can. Don’t forget the “ould fellas” either.
There are plenty of of people on this website who will give you good advice, so don’t be afraid to ask. You’re starting off on a lifetime’s journey here, take your time, and enjoy it, but don’t rush it.
Best wishes, Kenny

“The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today.”

@Kellie:
“I can’t find that many people play with around here I have to go all the way up to Ann arbor for a session twice a month.”

Twice a month! That’s a lot. I played in my first real session nearly six YEARS after I began learning tunes (on my own), and had to travel far to reach one. Now, twenty years later (I’m old! Not.) I still don’t play in sessions regularly, simply because there aren’t any. Really.

What Kenny just wrote is good advice: “Keep playing, keep practicing, learn the tunes, and above all, listen to as many players as you can.”

Nice one, Joe!

As people have mentioned, this is not a competition. The goal should not be to try to be the best player, it should be to try to be better than you were yesterday. It’s not a journey with a destination. The journey is the important part.

I wasn’t exposed to this music until I was in my 30s, and didn’t start playing music until I was 35. Yeah, I wish I had started when I was 6, but I would be a completely different person than I am now! (And I like who I am now!). So while there is (always) some level of discomfort with my playing, and a strong desire to be better, there’s also personal satisfaction to be had from from the journey so far.

It is no different than a lot of other things in life -- it’s the trip along the way that counts; not the destination. And some people may have started the trip earlier than you, but never get as far or even enjoy the journey along the way. Love the process of learning and making music with all it’s ups and downs -- just like life.

Oh my gosh, Kellie, among my friends there are some who never played ANY instrument until after they retired, so age 65+. They are making a go of it, so you can too.
For myself , I started piano at about 6, but I was never going to be a concert pianist! I am thankful however that I learned to read music and some music theory while quite young, as anything like that gets harder as you get older. (Ok, I know some here would say “who needs it?”)

Get out of your ideas and play some music 🙂

The second best time to plant a tree is now.

Timmy has it on the nose.

Kellie, Your 16 years old i was 50 when i started playing the bodhran im 53 now and progressing. Just have fun and enjoy yourself you have your whole life ahead of you. Dont waste your time thinking about starting at a younger age use your time to learn irish music now.

You might want to take up the concertina in addition to the whistle. The nice thing about being young is you’ve got the time to practice.

I would if they weren’t so expensive plus getting really good at the whistle is my main focus. I have to ask though why would you say that? Just curious 🙂

Because you said you liked the concertina - Female concertina players, I think you said.

Seriously, that’s one thing youth has over age. You don’t have to support a family, etc. If you’ve got the time, it might be nice to learn the two instruments together.

Indeed I do like female concertina players. As a male teenager I like females and I like Concertinas. The combination of the two is the best thing ever in my opinion. 😛

I love the concertina and would love to learn to play it after I’ve gotten really good at the whistle. People have said to me that there are more jacks of all trades and masters of none than genuine masters of one. I’m going to get a good foundation with the whistle and then possibly move to concertina.

I hear you. But here’s the question: if you have three hours a day to actually practice, would you do better playing one or two instruments? There are pros and cons on either side.

Kellie, you think YOU have problems regarding a lack of Irish music in your area? Newsflash: down here at the tip of South Africa, Irish fiddlers like myself feel like we’re on a desert island! (Mild exaggeration.) Anyhow. I can really sympathise with your frustration that you felt you discovered this music too late and others have a major head start. I started playing violin when I was six (I’m 18 now), but only discovered Irish music at age 13, and only really dove into it about a year or so ago. I am also very envious of those who grow up with it, for whom it is an inherent part of their lives. But: I’m a violin teacher, and I’ll tell you that often the kids who start later do make faster progress. Why? Because they can absorb more - and do it quicker - and because they often have a drive that is absent in the 7-year-old-darling-playing-violin-because-mommy-thought-it’d-be-so-cute. You are not at a severe disadvantage because you started later, trust me! One last thing. Don’t compare yourself to others. They say comparison is the death of joy, and they’re right. You’re not them. You’re you. Enjoy the journey, because it is a journey, not a sprint - and may your music bring you joy!

“You might want to take up the concertina in addition to the whistle”

Agreed. I think that playing more than one instrument is a very valuable thing, and can potentially enhance your playing of both. More than five instruments and, for most of us, the law of diminishing returns starts to kick in. But playing two or three different instruments is good. I wouldn’t worry about ‘mastering’ the whistle before taking up another instrument - the two can feed off each other. Your main obstacle with the concertina is, as you say, the cost - you’ll need to beg, borrow or earn (stealing is probably best avoided) the means somehow. Perhaps, in the meantime, you could befriend a concertina player who could give you a lend of a spare instrument. (Just beware, if it happens to be a young female concertina player, she may not be impressed if your ulterior motive turns out to be getting your hands on her spare concertina; also, an older player is more likely to own a spare instrument or two.)

If you think you’ll never be as good as someone else at something, you will probably prove yourself right.

however if you think you can be as good as someone else or better, you have a chance…

“Her spare concertina”- that’s a new name for it.

The best players are the ones that get the most joy out of playing while giving the most joy to others. And if you don’t let yourself get in the way, you can be that.

I don’t know if borrowing is the best route. I would probably just get a job and after a year or so of saving have enough to earn one. Finding a teacher as well that may be an issue. Also 5string what do you mean by: “Her spare concertina”- that’s a new name for it.

“I don’t know if borrowing is the best route.”

Of course, you’d want to have your own concertina eventually - and if you can save enough to buy a good one in a year whilst still being at school, good for you. But my thinking is, if you could borrow one for a while, it would give you a chance to get a feel for the instrument in the meantime. There are some budget (i.e. under $1000) instruments out there but, by all accounts, they are not really up to much and have little resale value - money better put into the pot for your dream instrument.

5String back at it again with the ribald humour are ya?

That’s the the thing I don’t know jack about concertinas. That means I don’t know what I would consider my “dream instrument”, so buying one could turn out to be a bit of a minefield.

Hi Kellie,
I wasn’t born into the tradition and started playing Irish whistle at about 7 years ago at the age of 41.
Ok, I’d been playing a bit of Irish harmonica before this so I knew a few tunes, but not many more than you know atm. So here’s my advice for what it’s worth…….go to YouTube and find a whistle tune that turns you on from the likes of Michael Eskin, Tin Whistler, Tradlessons or my favourite The Whistler (who has been brought up in the tradition) Download the tune using an online app…..google mp3 and youtube. Get a slowing down program or use windows media player’s slow downer - ‘right click - enhancements - play speed settings’ And just play that tune till it sounds like them not you. Find another tune and repeat. Move on to a different player, or a different instrument……repeat. And in time you will get better and better, and you’ll be slowly forming your own style. Tunes will come in your dreams……you’ll start to become the thing you want to be…..
I consider myself to be maybe as good as a 5 year old (hopefully 6 lol) brought up in the tradition.Was at a session a while ago playing with a young and excellent concertina player. I commented and she replied “I can’t help it, it was beaten into me as a child” (in humour, don’t really think she was beaten, although many other great players were…that’s family for you 🙂 I have been trying to get the right sound out of an Irish flute for about 5 years….and I’m still nowhere. Things take time…..let them. Only after the tributaries fill does the river flow.

“…That’s the the thing I don’t know jack about concertinas…”

And that’s exactly why you need to find a female, sorry, Female concertina player. So you can ask questions. And bring your whistle and maybe have a tune together.

I would love to find a female (my age specifically) that can play the concertina it would be a great thing and probably why I need to get a job and a driver’s license so I can drive up to detroit and the Irish academy up there.

Bringing a conversation about something else into the entire ‘getting the ITM bug’: When you find yourself getting bitten-off by far more than you can chew…..just keep chewing!

Hmmm?

I am 78 and just starting. I love every minute of it.

Good on ya mate!!! 🙂

Hello, I just went back to read the OP and I’m not sure if you’re asking about how to improve your playing based on your current experience, or if you’re concerned you will never be good enough to *compete* with other musicians you meet, or if you’re seriously considering learning concertina (or any new instrument), or you are amazed by Edel Fox’s playing, or if you’re merely skipping stones across the surface of Lake Mustard.

I’ll go w/assuming you appreciate Edel Fox’s music and you want to figure out if it’s worth the time and effort to pursue an instrument you are not yet familiar with, don’t have one to play and you’re at a stage where you are asking advice on where to begin. If that is the gist of this thread I have one suggestion about a possible starting point.

http://appcordions.com/concertinas/

It may not be what you’re asking about, or it may be as good a point as any to begin.

cheers

Yeah this conversation sure did take many twists and turns didn’t it?

The original post was about being behind other musicians when it comes to experience because of them getting a head start by starting at a younger age. Something that I could never recover time. It was just a thought that kept getting me down and everyone here ensured me that plays no factor.



and then it turned into me describing my fancy for female concertina players….

you can thank Aaron for that.

BTW I am amazed by Edel Fox’s playing. 🙂

Sorry “that age plays no factor”

Thanks for the recommendation to the app I’ll check it out!

I should specify I do indeed LOVE the concertina and I was planning to learn it as well.

I was about your age when my mentors reached out to me with a simple bit of advice and I think it helped.
I think it is still helpful.

What was that advice AB?

Thanks to the recommendation to the app although I am afraid of splitting my time between whistle and concertina.

Kellie, there are many many good players who will meet you at your playing level. Some certainly don’t like to slow down or play with less-skilled players than their normal circle, but there are a fair few open-minded and welcoming players, even professionals, who would be glad to have a tune or three with you.* Just about all of us at any skill level would rather play a tune well at a slow pace than bad playing at normal pace.

It certainly doesn’t hurt to send out a few emails to teachers, bands, folk music stores etc, even in surrounding cities asking for leads about playing partners. You never know - you might just find somebody in your same shoes, perhaps even a young female concertina player.

*I had a very very good local piper tell me that I should try to play with players better than me as much as possible. Not only does it form musical and social friendships, it also forces you to up your game. Good advice. I also took it to mean that the really good players in our area welcome improving players.

I don’t know. what should I say? because it may seem a bit ominous to them if I just go around asking for playing partners.

I’ve asked my friend, who’s in orchestra, to ask violin players if they would be interested in learning Irish Fiddle.

I used to have a good violin player but it didn’t last.

Not ominous or weird at all. Just tell them a bit about your situation - how long you’ve been playing, your age, your difficulties in find local players, exactly what type of music you like etc - and then ask them if they know of anybody who might be interested in connecting with a player such as yourself for periodic get-togethers. Also ask if they know of anybody else who can spread the word or that they can connect you with. I’d advise keeping emails brief.

This tradition is really an inter-weaved web of connections. You’ll get more results asking directly than by any other means. People know people who know people. Ask one person and you’ll start unraveling the web. It may not work out with your exact situation, but you have a much better chance of catching fish when you toss your hook out there.

A few years back, two local harpists asked their teacher for a fiddle playing partner. The harp teacher asked my fiddle teacher, who then asked me. It didn’t work out, but it does show that connections can happen. Another connection - Somebody was selling their Irish flute on craigslist and I contacted them asking about Irish music. This person lives locally but hardly ever plays locally. If it wasn’t for the ad and the asking, we’d never have made a connection. 3rd connection - I asked at the local violin shop - one of their sales people plays Irish music and runs a class periodically teaching Irish fiddle. Connections can be made, it just takes legwork. (I also asked many teachers and players in neighboring towns - took about two months of correspondence before I found people. But people there were, even if the music is not pure-drop.)

Of course, since you’re still underage, you might want to involve the parental units before sending out bunches of emails trying to connect with strangers.

Anybody who has played music for a year or two will understand the value of a playing partner. They won’t think you weird at all for asking.

Oh, and make it clear that this is a hobby and NOT for pay. I found one guy (nutjob?) who didn’t understand what Irish trad music is, and I had to explain 3 times that this is not a paid gig, is not pub songs, and that recorders and digeridoos are not what I’m looking for.

Hey Kellie,
I sometimes feel like I’m in the same boat as you, I started learning the violin at age 12 and now I’m 18. Always wanted to play Irish trad as my main focus, however when I started doing music as a subject (in year 12 you are ranked against all musicians in the state that play the same instrument) which I found disheartening as being a folk musician I had to play Bach and Mozart (REALLY not in my repertoire). The fact that others start way earlier and are at a higher classical level in general made it all more the nightmare haha!

Saying that, one of my teacher’s gave me the BEST advice. “There is always going to be someone better than you, whether be sport, music, art, academically etc, However there’s always someone who is worse as well, let not others judge your musicianship, but rather judge how you play compared to six months ago.”
Music is for expressing emotions and in the case of any trad music, is there to be shared. Don’t be disappointed, make a goal and stick to it, if you aim for the stars, you will still achieve improvement regardless 🙂

I just want to say that the art and the tradition is what it’s about, not sessions! Sure they can be great fun, amazing music, great camaraderie and craic but the fine art is in a solo performance .learn to play your instrument and the tunes to an exceptional level , the rest is the icing on the cake. First bake your cake.

I started fiddle at 60 and when I was 61 (and an absolutely terrible player) I was playing in a pub and a man at least 20 years younger than me said to me: “I wish I’d learnt to play an instrument when I was young!”

wtf? i started when I was around 30 and I think that.

How dare you make such a claim at 16.

That is like a millionaire scoffing to a begger that he wished he worked harder to earned a few MORE million.

Sorry it was not my intention to come off as selfish or rude.

It’s hard to tell if you are intending humour there Arthur, especially with that “How Dare You”, but that analogy is rubbish, and in my opinion Kellie is a very humble young guy.

Kellie,
I’m enjoying all your threads - you’re making us think, and that’s a good thing.

Good Ergo, glad to know others are getting use out of my threads as well. 🙂

Sorry it was not my intention to come off as selfish or rude.

And you haven’t done so; not whatsoever! Arthur’s comment made no sense (unless it was a badly worded attempt at humour).

“What was that advice AB?”

Sorry for taking a couple of days to respond.

The advice for me, from my mentors, when I was in the middle of my teenage years was about establishing myself with a firm foundation. The foundation being the most significant aspect of said advice; everything else which I based on my foundation has been in a constant state of fluxuation. The foundation (though itself a bit fluid) has always been there for me.

The advice is nothing new although the words to say it change depending on who you receive it from. The important thing is how you act on it, how *you* act on the words regardless of what they mean to me or anyone other than yourself.

For me it boils down to the simplest of phrases, “Know thyself.”
There are many other ways to word this & I do not know that any of them will be helpful for you; maybe none.
Having said that, Kellie’s son, here are a few alternative turns on a similar vein of becoming the personal best you you can be …

“Be your true self.”
“To thine own self be true.”
“Find your voice.”

I’ve also read something similar in the Tao Te Ching and the other night in an interview w/a friend of Samuel Beckett on a BBC radio broadcast. For myself it is always around me, it is timeless.

But I do not know you or your needs. We are living in a time of shifting paradigms. The proof of this is in the Mustard. The things which advise & guide me may not be best for you, Kellie’s son. I don’t want to misguide you. Like everyone before you are blazing your own path and while you may experience the rush of climbing on their shoulders your foundation is ultimately constructed by you.

I started a little over a year ago at 59 so I don’t really understand someone who is 16 being worried about getting a “late start” 🙂 although if you are wanting to play professionally then I guess I do understand. I Just wish I had started playing at 16. Just think of it this way, a success starting at 16 is much more impressive than someone starting music at 6 and becoming a success.

Very True! 🙂

I started playing the bagpipes at 27, played a couple of years and stopped for 20 years (wife did not like bagpipes) before restarting. I am now an “adequate” piper but will likely never be “great”. I started whistle and flute at 65 (new and improved wife), and am now 71. I will never be as proficient as those who have played all their lives but music is not a competition. You are young. You will get older. There will be things you wished you had done and things you regret. That is called life. The past is over. The future is unknown. You only have the present - be there. It is not about how good you are but how present you are. I have played at a few sessions and was nervous. The other players were all better and knew more tunes, but they were supportive and the tunes I did not know I sat out on and observed.
This is life. Enjoy the living of it.
PS I have a harmonica which I have not yet started!

I switched to trad at 61 and statistically, I don’t have enough years left to become truly proficient. You however, do have time enough to absorb, learn and become proficient in any number of endeavors you undertake. You will do well but keep in mind, Rome wasn’t built in a day and likewise, proficiency won’t come in a day but it will come with practice. Don’t rush it, just know that you will attain that goal if put a consistent effort towards it.

I know someone who started playing piano at 16 who now has a doctorate in piano and a professorship at a major university. Keep at it.

Sadly, I don’t think there’s an equivalent for tin whistle.

https://www.tcd.ie/Music/music-composition/

I stand corrected.

So, you aren’t interested?
:(

No I’m interested I said that because my last post was “Sadly, I don’t think there’s an equivalent for tin whistle.”

Then you proved me wrong so I posted “I stand corrected”

I wasn’t proving anything. You saw what the post was about, didn’t you?

Maybe I didn’t understand it fully, but it’s a music studies program in Ireland isn’t it?

… about …. *!*composition *!*
So … Happy Holidays.

Ah, sorry I just woke up and I did indeed see that, I just forgot to type that. My Bad.

Happy Holidays to you to.

Now get those forms in early before you start wishing you had.
{just kiddin’}

I could have written kellie’s first post, seriously! I’m 17 and have been playing fiddle for…a year and four months. I’ve too felt envious of players who grew up immersed in the music. Watching videos of Natalie MacMaster and Donnell Leahy’s kids stirs a chord deep in me as I wish I’d been brought up that way. I guess it’s easy to get discouraged when you realize every player you adore to pieces has been playing since their childhood.
But…these posts have encouraged me to see…there is lots of life left, and this music I live, eat and breathe is to bring me joy not get me down in the mouth.
I am committed to playing; I practice because I can’t help myself, I listen all the time, and I am doggone dedicated to the cause.
So..no more time wasted in regrets!! I’ve wasted too much of it already.
Thank you to everyone who posted on this thread!!
And Kellies son… I totally get you!!
But time to get going, right???!!

There are lots of great fiddlers who started in their teens. To my mind - and I know many people would disagree - the dividing line is 19. While there are notable exceptions, it’s rare for someone who starts later than age 19 to become great - however, they can still become creditable players and live meaningful lives.

I was in my early 30s when I took up the GHB. Other than a meaningless dabble with the trombone in 6th grade it was my first instrument. I eventually became competent enough to perform publicly with our band and not embarrass myself or my bandmates. So it seems to me you have a very full and satisfying musical life a head of you. I wish you well!

Thank you Michael!! I’m looking forward to all the music in my future!
I have to remember—Music is not a talent show, at its core. It’s meant to bring us joy in our own way. It can be hard for folks like me, who so desperately just want to be “really good!!!!”
This is ME, not Kevin Burke….or Natalie MacMaster….or (your favorite fiddler).
It’s your story, and meant to be fulfilled in your own way.
Blah to all the stress and worry!! Music is joy!

Yes, music for the joy of it. This is why I never endeavored to enter piping competitions. There is a very nice book which addresses this you may enjoy. “Making Music For The Joy Of It” Judy, Stephanie.