Rude boy. A message to you

Rude boy. A message to you

What is the most appropriate response to a non trad musician, who you look up to, when they make rude derragatory remarks about our music such as it is "simple 8 measure folk tunes!" ??????????

My first reaction was a bicycle kick to the head but as a master of self discipline, I fell suddenly silent like a deer in the head lights

The truth is, this musician could spend 20 years studying flourishes, rolls and quads etc, and he would just begin to chip the iceberg of our music. Worse yet, is his words, that fall on young ears.

How does one frame an appropriate response that isn’t over reactive and full of broken mustard bottles and tattered wigs?

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I’d leave him or her ignorant.. "Yup we just play diddley diddley all the time. You should join us!"

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

In the American south, the proper response is "Well, bless your heart."

Other options include "Well, aren’t you special!" And the Southern California favorite "Thank you for sharing!"

All uttered with relentless perkiness.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Stop looking up to them.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Nice, Tracie!

Too many people speak before they think. I mean, looked at one way you could describe Irish dance music in very simplistic terms like that but it’s sheer ignorance to blurt something like that out. Shut yer face and use yr brain cell, pal.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

You could point out to them that they are more often actually simple 16 measure folk tunes.

And instead of a bicycle kick, try kwon-soo, the spearhand technique: stiffen the fingers but slightly bend the longest middle finger so it is even with the index and ring fingers. Strike the larynx or solar plexus.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I’ve stopped looking up to the person and have starting cutting the ties, it was that offensive.

But the idea of someone trying to tell me that their elementary sheet dependent music is more complicated is something that I can’t leave "to ignorance." I can play his music backwards and damn I should just shut up this looks foolish

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

U are telling me to shut my face?

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

An Arabic proverb that we had to write out for handwriting practice fifty years ago springs to mind:

He who knows and knows he knows - he is a wise man: seek him.
He who knows and knows not he knows - he is asleep: wake him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not - he is a child: teach him.
But he who knows not and knows not he knows not - he is a fool: shun him!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Another way of responding - airily and cryptically - is to say: ‘Ah well, you *would* say that, wouldn’t you?’ 🙂

Re: … But of course

I like simple 8 measure tunes.

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Well, isn’t this special. Trying to shut up isn’t that easy but on this contextual situation, I was silent. Yet, this morning, I had mustard and glue coming out my ears and my eye lashes were tied together with Diddley bits. last night I had the dream where my old teacher was teaching the same measure over and over, where no matter what I do, I can’t get the roll and hiccup correctly. I woke up in a sweat and realized I still have some unfinished business

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

They’re obviously being a bit ignorant, but I don’t really see the rudeness in what he or she said. Try and encourage he/she into playing more folk!

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I was hoping for encouragement to tell him to go to hell but I take your words with thought, sensitivity and reflection

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

No, Beid e boy, I wasn’t telling you to shut yer face, sorry. I was talking to the perp. 🙂

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I figured as much fearfeasog,

I can’t believe a professional musician could be so ignorant.

I just practiced the roll in question from dream, and I would wager a large sum of money that if I gave the dude a week, he wouldn’t get close to one measure let alone 16!

Ever since we landed on moon, things are off kilter, someone please restore balance to universe and bring light and clarity to this poor ignorant creature

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Ask him if he has ever considered being gloriously full of ___.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Are we talking Belfast Boy James Galway like?

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

No advantage, no good, can come from repartee, snappy or otherwise. Turn around, walk away, don’t look back. Ever. The rudely ignorant will never change. He/she showed their colors when they made that comment.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I don’t quite understand the problem. It IS "simple 8 measure folk tunes!" - some of it - more of it "simple 16 measure folk tunes!" So … ?

If that comment was clearly intended as a put-down, then I would respond as did someone on some video clip somewhere on the internet when some Classical music snob commented on how "repetitive" Irish fiddle tunes are: "Yes - isn’t it wonderful!"

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Hand them and instrument and ask them to try to keep up…

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

"walking away" is what I did, for the record.

I find many complicated musical forms extremely easy while getting rolls and quads in our music very difficult. If you skip the finer bits of this music, the skeleton is simple but sorry, this is no cakewalk

Getting the finer bits cooperating with overall tempo and bounce is something that I’m willing to wager with anyone that calls this music simple.

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I wasn’t there, of course - but I would point out that ‘simple’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘easy’. The structure, etc., is ‘simple’, compared to that other complicated stuff, but, as we all know, playing it ain’t easy.

If it had been me, and I had taken the other’s remark to mean that the music is ‘easy to play’, I would likely have simply guffawed. Not saying that that’s the best response, but it’s what I tend to do, unthinkingly, in those sorts of situations. Which I’m not in often enough to have a prepared reaction ….

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Personally I do see it as simple, not because I can do it or any other type of music better but because it is. It’s folk music, take it or leave it, played mostly badly and occasionally by distant talents a bit better. It’s music of the self taught, music of the diaspora, music of overseas cousins pinning for a less materialistic and fatalistic world where meaning isn’t in the pocket book and the whiteness of the skin and teeth. It’s pure simplicity, refined by fools and the greedy.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Damn phone, intended above and writ large for the literal minds of the gospel and playstation mongers amongst us, my intent was to turn "pine" to "pining" not "pin" to whatever it was this thumb smudged out.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

"I can play diddley - you can’t."

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I’d often prefer to listen to the Specials over a lot of what goes on

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

That "simple" and "easy" are not synonymous is a tremendously important concept.

Re: "a tremendously important concept."

I think the best way to resolve different approaches to different styles of music is to not draw too many lines in the sand. I doubt musicians will ever reconcile their diverse interests. But it’s OK. If someone does not appreciate your style of music, or the effort you put into learning every nuance it doesn’t mean they are worthy of scorn. They may be new to your music, or immersed in something completely different,
or the connection might take time. The possibilities are infinite.

The efforts it takes to focus on the nuances of one’s music are what is most important. Personally
I feel this music gets easier the more focused, less distracted I let myself become.

"Stop Making Sense" ~ https://vimeo.com/111929970

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

People are never going to understand a style of music they’ve not been exposed to a large amount of.

To people who haven’t spend thousands of hours listening to and playing "Classical" music it all sounds alike. Ditto Jazz, or Bluegrass, or Rap, or any other kind of music somebody hasn’t listened to a large amount of.

About that Arabic proverb, what comes to mind is the documentary I saw on TV wherein they interviewed the top experts in a number of different advanced scientific fields. The interesting thing was that they all said that the more they learned about their field (neurology, astronomy, etc) the more they realised they didn’t know. The knowing of the vastness of our ignorance only comes through a lifetime of study.

So we’re all in the same boat, more or less: the uneducated and person with a Doctorate in physics, we’re all ignorant. We need to remember that.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

There are things that we know we know,
there are things that we know we don’t know
and there a things that we don’t know we don’t know….

Donald Rumsfeld.

I’ve always liked that comment. As I’m not so clever with the old punctuation (I’m pretty sure that I’ve made a bit of a mess of it) would one of you kind literates out there show me how it should be done, please.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

It’s not about liking or not liking one genre or another. It’s not about thinking that "my music is more interesting/difficult/challenging/meaningful/difficult than yours". At one time or another we likely all think that about something. The point is that someone had the nerve to openly disrespect the thing you spend your time and effort doing…and you. Those are the ones who should quickly and permanently be scraped out of our lives.

That kind of disrespect is the first sign of a bully and nothing gets me fired up faster and harder than a bully. The best thing to do is the "walk away" physically and mentally. If the bully persists go on the the next best thing.

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Maybe it is the response of someone who feels he has lost an acolyte.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Why argue about the merits, or otherwise, of different music genres? It’s about the craic. Lovers of the "wrong" type of music will never experience it.

Re: Rude boy. "simple 8 measure folk tunes" ?

Going back to the OP, because it’s the only thing I/we know about what the other musician said, all I can
see is a limited understanding and experience of one musician with the music of another musician.
But the only thing I know w/any certainty are these few words from the offending party regarding our music, (that it is characterised as) "simple 8 measure folk tunes". That’s not enough to convince me
the other musician is willfully derogatory, disrespectful or verging on bullying the OP.

Beid e boy, what exactly did he say that got under your skin? From what you’ve posted so far I cannot comprehend why you were so compelled to post a thread with such a provocative title as this.

Thanks,
AB

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Who cares what anyone else thinks? I play for my own enjoyment.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

I always make the analogy that music is like a language (and I mean *always*, like, maybe a little too much). Take French, for instance. I barely speak a word of French. I can listen to two people having a conversation in French, yet about all I can gather about the conversation is that it’s probably in French. Nothing deeper than that.

Trad music is much the same way. Unless you "know the language," so-to-speak, it’s perfectly understandable if it sounds like a lot of "diddly dee."

And it *is* kind of repetitive, and it *is* kind of simple (with its own kind of complexity). That’s the nature of folk music; to be accessible by the masses. That’s why a lot of people like it. So to each their own.

And with all that said, I’ll now admit that the title made me think this was going to be, at least marginally, about raggae musicians. :D

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Chris, I hope there is a bit of "Three Little Birds" shining through but the OP feels more in the ilk of
"Stepping Razor".

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Chris w, I was hoping someone could link something "special" for the massive as I’m too digitally illiterated.

Benjamin let me be Franklin, why would u bring up razors ;? Under my skin is a heart and a brain made for music.

Under the cover of words, his, yours ours it becomes lost in its own ifnorance, cluttered behind a bunch of other crap until I look like the last idiot standing. Trying to make sense of littered words when I only hear music.

Thx for trying, I think I’d rather play it by ear as I’m still confused as we are all writing different things down

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Ask him when was the last time he smiled at the musician playing alongside him…when that musician got a touch of magic into a tune…
Did he ever get a knowing wink from others playing with him for throwing in a " Gem" into the mix.
Did he ever get that " tingle " when somebody harmonises with the slow air being played.
The answer would be …NO……..because he.s too busy looking at the sheet music and playing it without soul and passion.
Ask him did he ever float out the door of a pub at 3 in the morning and wish the session had never ended.
EHHH. ……that would be NO.
Because he.s doing it for money.
Ya can’t bate passion.

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Beid e boy, it’s the Peter Tosh song. No offense intended to your passion for music.

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Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Next time you meet rude boy quote the following …….Where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise……

Re: Rude boy. A message to you

Like Ross said, ‘brush it off, it’s not worth it.’

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