Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

I’m reviewing the motion of the tradition.
In my memory, there is a "famous" old tinker who got recorded doing foxhunter’s in a pub somewhere.
But My old brain can’t remember his name!
Help!?

The point is that I am tracking how the tradition changes - the living tradition?
Scant evidence - but strong - (and I feel .. important).

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Johnny Doherty?

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Music to my ears… please do share, whoever knows.

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Checkout the section about the "the Hare and the Hound" starting around 15:06 on the video Gobby posted. It is a famous bit of Doherty lore, and I have heard people refer to it as the Foxhunter story — although that is a reference to the slip jig, not the reel. Check out the videos on https://thesession.org/tunes/16094

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

I’m not too sure if Johnny Doherty could be classed as a Tinker. More of a Rambling Siuler I would have thought. However Felix Doran was a Tinker and he was well known for playing the Foxhunt…..

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Assuming Mozle’s memory is accurate we are looking for a ""famous"", "old", "tinker"; assuming the OPs description is a good fit.

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

I’m not up to speed on what is considered a "politically correct" term these days, but surely "tinker" is rather unfashionable? Aren’t we supposed to say Traveller or Roma to get extra Karma points for the next life? I’ve slugged this one out long enough so a snail isn’t such an enticing future prospect.
In answer to the OP’s query, I have no idea. And nor do I think it matters. Many are the versions of the Foxhunters, but maybe only a few players are remembered on vinyl for posterity.

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

@Free Reed. I’m puzzled about the terms. From 3:45 in this extract from the documentary about Johnny Doherty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiehZZ2tXKg

he is doing as what one online dictionary gives as the definition of tinker - "(especially in former times) a person who makes a living by travelling from place to place mending pans and other metal utensils." Though that term is specifically not used in the documentary.

I can remember Irish travellers (in England) coming round sharpening knives, and being told they were referred to as tinkers because they used to do tinsmithing.

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“I’m not up to speed on what is considered a "politically correct" term these days, but surely "tinker" is rather unfashionable? Aren’t we supposed to say Traveller or Roma “.

I don’t think ‘political’ correctness comes into it;- just correctness. A tinker is a trade. Travelling people may or may not be tinkers. Also travelling people may or may not be Romany. There is nothing derogatory or ‘unfashionable’ in any of these terms.

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

The Doherty family were surely accomplished tin-smiths.? They made tin fiddles!

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

And, not to dissapoint, what’s a siuler?

I did find an old use as ‘sieve maker’ in the dictionary but in England that would be seivier (as in the surname). Is it Irish?

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

And does anyone know anything more about the recording of Foxhunter’s Reel which I posted above?

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Can’t help you there Ben, but I think that the link to the video posted by fiddler3 is most likely what the OP was thinking of. It would it be easy to confuse a fox hunt story with a hound and hare story, and the rest of it fits the description. Firstly he’s filmed in a pub, and secondly As Wikipedia confirms "John Doherty was born in 1900 in Ardara, County Donegal. He came from a famous clan of Irish Travellers who worked as tinsmiths and horse traders".

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Fair play, Gobby. Sorry for disrupting the thread. I was hoping someone might have information about when John Gallagher played for the recording and if it was in Ardara?

Cheers!

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

John’s brother, Mickey Doherty also recorded his version of the Fox Chase

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Yeah, I’ve not yet listened to at any of Mickey Doherty’s stuff, which I am suddenly surprised to realise. Johnny’s history and his recoded interviews fascinate and educate me so much that I’ve not yet moved beyond them(especially about the bowing techniques). I believe that his brother Mickey played in a more Sligo style (as do I) . I’ll have to look it up.

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

Driven by my enthusiasm I can’t help but add:- You know how at times we all imagine if we could go back and meet somebody from history? My choice of such a person would be Johnny Doherty.

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Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

"And, not to dissapoint, what’s a siuler?"

I’ve never heard the term but "siúl" is the Irish word for "walk" so possibly a "walker" meaning a wanderer

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OK Gobby, that’s why I’m asking. Not trying to be supercilious about it. I agree, the term "*political* correctness" has become a joke. But I was under the impression that "Tinker" was a bit derogatory. When I was a kid in The Drum, Glasgow, there was a site just outside of the scheme where travellers/tinkers/gypsies would frequently descend upon. We were always told to keep well away from them as they abducted children. Such terrible prejudices were inculcated at such a young age!

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If it’s about prejudice did you mean ‘pejorative’ rather than ‘derogatory’? Maybe that’s a bit subtle but I think one reason the ‘correct’ term for something changes is because the prejudice becomes attached to the name.

For example, people who in the past used the term ‘tinker’ or ‘gypsy’ in a derogatory way would probably use ‘traveller’ in the same way now. It doesn’t mean that all usage is derogatory.

I think kids are often told to be beware of strangers of any sort.

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

didn’t Andy Irvine have a song ‘The Rambling Siuler’ ?

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Pejorative is better David. Thanks.

Re: Who was the old tinker who recorded a version of Foxhunter’s reel?

As it pertains to nomenclature, Johnny Doherty could be properly called a "tinker," because he was a tinsmith. "Tinker" is also often used as a blanket term for Irish Travellers, along with the much more pejorative "knacker," which also derives from a trade they were known for (killing and/or processing animals for things other than meat, like glue or leather). "Traveller" is probably the most neutral term for them, or the somewhat more verbose "member of the Travelling community." They are separate from the Romani (aka "gypsies"), although there is a fair bit of mixing, especially in the UK.

A "siúler," "rambler," "wanderer," "rover," etc. would be more likely to refer to a solitary person from a settled background who has taken to the road. Most often in songs they’re young men who roam around and perpetrate general tomfoolery, usually with young women involved. They’d be different from Travellers in the fact that they are not with families or a larger community, but mainly striking out either on their own or in small groups of two or three, and also in that they probably took to the road rather than being born on it. Padraig O’Keeffe could be seen as a sort of siúler, although without the more mischievous connotations, and he was not a Traveller. He walked from house to house giving lessons in the tradition of the wandering music masters of the past. Unlike the musical Travellers like Doherty or the Dorans, O’Keeffe had a formal education as a musician and a teacher, and taught rather than busked.

So, in summation, just as not all who wander are lost, not all who travel are "Travellers."