Pronunciation advice?

Pronunciation advice?

In our session I hear a few tune names pronounced, I think, with attempts at sounding every consonant, or with deliberate (yet perhaps misplaced) emphasis, or basically something which comes off as an irregular rhythm &/or mouth shaping. I would appreciate a little assistance in hearing other pronunciations for some of the names if any of you are either linguistically knowledgeable, overtly pendantic, or just here for a lark.

Thank you in advance! :-D

Flowers of *Edinburgh*
Battle of *Augrhim*
Amhrán Na *Leabhar*
Sliabh Na *MBan*
*Phroinsias’*
Farewell To *Uist*
*Islay* Rant

Wow, I still have more. I didn’t realise there were so many. That’s more than enough for this thread.

Give it your best shot.

Cheers,
Ben

ps … just don’t ask me how to post the pronunciations in an easy to understand format. you can be as creative as you like.

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Oops! *Aughrim*
My bad!

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Arrrggghh! I misspelled pedantic. (I loathe that term).

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Edinburra -Orchrim [like the ch in Loch] -Sleeve na Bawn - You-ist - I lay [as in when I lay down]
Phroinsias is, I think, Francie and Amhran na Leabhar I will leave to the native Gaelic speakers!

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Flowers of *Edinburgh* - Edinburra we say here anyway
Battle of *Augrhim* - Ach-rim with a softish ch
Amhrán Na *Leabhar* - Lao-ur approximately
Sliabh Na *MBan* - Mawn
*Phroinsias’* - Fhrion-sius
Farewell To *Uist* - Oosht, leave it to the Scots
*Islay* Rant - Eyelay

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I agree with most of the comments here. Islay however is pronounced "I’ll-a", with the ‘a’ like the first ‘a’ of away, not like the second (not "I’ll-ay"). I believe Uist can be pronounced with or without a ‘y’ on the front (yoo-ist or oo-ist) too.

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"Sliabh Na *MBan* - Mawn"

I would say "m-on" - no fada on the a

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I’ve even heard some Scots pronounce Edinburgh as Edinburray…. Or even EdinGburgh!

Further afield, many Scandinavians and Germans sometimes pronounce it as EdinBURG as in Hambur, Gothenburg and so on.

Possibly, there are some who may pronounce it Eedin, as in Dunedin… New Zealand city and old name for Edinburgh from Dùn Èideann?

Personally, I don’t pronounce it exactly as Edinburra. There is a slight "loch" effect with the "gh" but less obvious and more subtle.
"Burra" is actually "Parliamo Glasgow" for butter. :-P

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Islay however is pronounced "I’ll-a"

You are mostly likely right and I defer to local pronunciation! I wonder is the latter part a version of a word that knocks about Scottish & Irish names along the lines law, la, lagh - seems to basically mean a hill or hill slope. The first part is from Norse I think for an island, so maybe the ‘hilly island’?

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Here’s a couple more for you to try Ben :)
Gneevgullia as in https://thesession.org/tunes/876
Tralibane as in https://thesession.org/tunes/3000

Pronunciation of lesser known places in Ireland is a minefield, even for those who’ve lived all their lives here. The only sure way is to listen to those who live in these localities.

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I remember a work colleague (my boss), who once spent almost a whole hour discussing the "pronounciation" of certain words, before I chipped in with, "By the way, it’s pronounced (and indeed spelt) pronunciation"!

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And then there’s Slaithwaite and Chop Gate …

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Ardara is a good one Stiamh - I’d bet that a substantial proportion of Irish people outside of the north west would get that one wrong. Ard-raa.

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Here’s a couple Scottish places
Kirkcudbright and milngavie.

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Cheers, everyone! Appreciate the responses.

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More Scottish - Auchtermuchty, anyone ?
Here’s a good one, between Peterculter [ could be another one ] and Stonehaven - I have no idea how you pronounce it :
"Auquorthies".

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There’s always Tow Law (County Durham) to confuse people……

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No it’s south of England people that say EdinGburgh: I even had it spelled that way on my credit card bill for a while! But then some Scots talk about sanGwiches, when they mean sandwiches!
Mulguy (Milngavie)
Mingies (Menzies)
Dun-BAR not DUNbar
Dun-LOP not DUNlop
Dee-yell (Dalziel)

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"…it’s south of England people that say EdinGburgh…"

I come from the South of England and I do not say that, nor have I ever noticed anyone saying it. Perhaps it is hypercorrection on the part of those whose native accents have ‘-in’ for ‘-ing’ (e.g. "runnin", "sleepin" etc.).

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Try these:

Achiltibuie
Auchterarder
Ravenstruther

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"I don’t know what the correct Irish pronunciation of Drinagh and Tullycrine would be, but many people get the English pronunciation wrong by assuming that the -i- is an -ee- sound."

I have seen the latter spelled ‘Tullycreen’, which suggests that the Irish pronunciation is closer to rhyming with ‘lean’ than ‘line’. But there is a lot of inconsistency in the English spellings of Irish place names. The Irish spelling of ‘Drinagh’, for example, is ‘Draighneach’, so the first syllable is pronounced something like English ‘dry’. Killimer, Co. Clare (and Killimor, Co. Galway) on the other hand, is ‘Cill Íomair’, so the second syllable rhymes with English ‘see’, not ‘sigh’; but the English pronunciation of the name has apparently been influenced by the spelling, since it follows the standard English rules and has the ‘sigh’ sound.

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Milngavie?

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Milngavie : Mull-guy.

Colquhoun : co-hoon

Anstruther : en-ster

Eastcote : es-cott

Edinburgh : em-bra (rough Glasgow accent)

"Dae ye think ma heid buttons up the back?" :)

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When you’ve finished your tour of Ireland and Scotland, AB, (you had better forget about Wales entirely), you can head over to East Anglia where I was brung up in a little town called Wymondham. In summer we sometimes went to the beach at Happisburgh. That’s Win-dum and Haze-bruh. Plenty more like that, bor!

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Celtic ( the fitba team )- sellic

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"Dun-BAR not DUNbar"

Often pronounced DUNbar when some sing Johnny Cope.

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And how about……..

Gneevegullia, Kerry ?

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I’ve heard "Em-bra" with the "r" flapped. The bilabial "b" is influencing the preceding nasal continuant.

Interesting (to me anyhow) is how many British place-names in the USA are either

1) mispronounced or

2) misspelled to reflect the pronunciation.

California examples of each are Glamis and Redding.

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And another thing …

While they’re both spelled ‘Celtic’, why is the weegie football club pronounced ‘Seltic’ while the music (etc.) of the Gaelic fringe is referred to as ‘Keltic’? Answer me that if you can!

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"2) misspelled to reflect the pronunciation."

But there’s logic in that Richard. You could argue that the names written down on ‘official’ sources are in fact, incorrect and it’s quite right to spell say, Wymondham as Windum as Stiamh says above. Incidentally I had little idea that the same issues arise in England and had tended to assume the problems in Ireland and Scotland were due to the English trying to shoehorn Gaelic names into English forms.

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Fashion in the 19th century. Purely that. No logical reason.

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I hear regular announcements at/for "St Pancreas" railway station in London, which never fail to make me cringe - they really ought to know better.

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Lots of examples in Northamptonshire….

Cogenhoe - Cuck-no
Rothwell - Ro-well
and perhaps most famously is Althorp (of Princess Diana fame) which some insist is All-trop. I have to say though I think it is only the estate that pronounces it that way, most people to my knowledge in Northampton would say All-thorpe. Go figure….

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Sometimes it’s just a matter of the local accent not rendering a spelling the way someone with another accent would expect. Cholmondeley would need a rather extreme upper-class drawl to come out ‘right’ though.

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Edinburgh is usually pronounced(in the highlands, anyway) as Edinbra

Uist = Yoo-ist

Islay = I-lay

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Is Killavil, as in Killavil Jig, pronounced "kill-a-ville" or Kill—-avul?

thanks in advance.

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Edingburgh: I did not say that EVERYONE in the S of England pronounces it that way, just that SOME people from there do. Not only did it appear on my credit card bill (which was sent from way down somewhere) that way, but I have had southerners on the phone pronounce it that way, Creadur, so it does happen!

And I-la not I-lay, Jamie….as Kilcash had already pointed out higher up this thread.

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A lot of English people will spell it "borough". They do it also also with Musselburgh.

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Usually Southerners, Johnny.

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I’m in Lerwick this week and convinced myself that the correct pronunciation is "lerrick", like Berwick(-upon-Tweed), or Derek. The locals disagree, although it is so windy you can’t barely hear what people are saying anyway, never mind how it’s pronounced.

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Try having Lesmahagow on your postal address and talking to banks, insurance companies, etc. based in the south of England.

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Try living in South London and try and understand nearly anyone that speaks English as a first languge!
(e.g.: Glasgow, Jamaica, Kerry, Geordie land, parts of Africa, old skool ‘Cockney’)
Often, folks who speak it as a learnt/ second lingo are much easier to understand!!!
(e.g.: Eastern Europe, French speaking Caribbean, far East, Horn of Africa)
Those who have learnt English may lack the vocab and fluency but win on pure desire to simply commuicate. As opposed to trying to understand the vaguaries, accents, idioms, localised grammar, patois, quaint syntax and mumblings of various ‘English’ speakers.
By the way I sound like the London grammar school boy I am with a bit of old skool rock’n’roll and hiphop accent thrown in, innit??

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@B/C, I’ve only ever heard it pronounced as kill-AV-il, with the em-PHA-sis on the middle syll-AB-le.

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Phroinsias? Not a full title surely.
‘A Phroinsias’ if you’re addressing Francis.
‘Cóta Phroinsias’ if you’re talking about something belonging to Francis /or if you’re ‘ag moladh Phroinsias’ i.e. praising Francis or whatever.
Otherwise, the fellow is called Proinsias… Prin-she-us
Then for Phroinsias, it’s Frin-she-us

Battle of Ok-rum
Shh-leave na Monn
I’m merely seconding some of the advice already posted above.
(Well, that’s my Co. Galway Aughrim anyway!). Fáilte romhat.

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Thank you, Dan. I’ll ask my friend who uses that name for the tune (a mazurka) what is the full title.
The tune is the 2nd mazurka played on the 2nd track of Ceol Aduaidh by Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh
and Frankie Kennedy ~ Mazurkas Phroinsias Uí Mhaonaigh. Technically the first tune could use the
same name (1 & 2 ?) but, for whatever reason we never call it by that name. In fact I think we have
2 or 3 different names for that mazurka; all of which are relatively easy to pronounce.

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Coming from the Netherlands, this discussion looks fairly cute. Ever been to Gorinchem? Maybe you were on the way from Schagen to Scheveningen and decided to take a little detour through Wageningen?

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@Tijn-

Surprised that you left out Wijchen (vlak bij Nijmegen), especially bearing in mind the spelling of your name!

Groetjes

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No takers for Gneevegullia then!!

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Flowers of *Edinburgh* - Edinburra
Battle of *Augrhim* - Ach-rim
Amhrán Na *Leabhar* - uhRAWN NUH L"OW"ER
Sliabh Na *MBan* - Shleev nuh mawn
*Phroinsias’* - Frin shis
Farewell To *Uist* - Ooisht
*Islay* Rant - Eyelay

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"No takers for Gneevegullia then!!

A while since I heard a local give it, but I think and I stress think it’s along the lines of ‘Nee.e.gilla’.

But ceist for you Genny, what do you think it means?