Paddy Fahey tune names

Paddy Fahey tune names

I see that someone or someone’s added numbers to the Fahey’s tunes (I assume consistent with Holohan dissertation) as Aka’s and I thought it would be nice if the numbered versions be reprogrammed to the top of the tune page so that we can all find them easier. I am myself starting a project to figure out which recorded versions actually match the tune pages. I’ve been so confused with his tunes and have decided to get myself organized. Is it possible to change the tune page header or can it only be done by an administrator or the original creator of the page?

I guess I’m really just wondering if people generally feel this is worth doing. It it even feasible.

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I’d rather keep the numbered version as aliases—same with Ballydesmond polkas and the like.

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@JWiseman. I tried to reconcile the Fahey tunes here on thesession with the Holohan transcriptions ( http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/Celtic/Paddy_Fahey’s_by_Maria_Holohan.abc ) a few months ago and eventually gave up. Too much variance. If you do manage to get a good correlation, just start a thread with links since the Jeremy isn’t going to change the underlying structure of thesession. I know it’s confusing as all get-out to search Tunes for "Paddy Fahey’s" and get 29 pages with multiple jigs, reels and whathaveyou and I wish like crazy that they were sorted into appropriate entries but that just isn’t going to happen. Should you desire Maria Holohan’s original cassette recordings of Paddy Fahey, you can find them here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/Celtic/Paddy_Fahey_recordings.zip

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We must respect Mr Fahey’s wishes and call them all ‘Paddy Fahey’s’.
He said he did this is to avoid confusion.

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I understand and appreciate your position on this Jeremy - which is why I asked.

I have started my project and I see what callison is referring to in terms of variance (You’ve been helping me out a lot lately - thx) I’m going to go forward with my project using the Hollohan dissertation as a framework. I don’t expect I will figure out all of the tunes but hopefully I can at least clear up the recorded versions for the most part.
Can someone explain the discrepancy of the reel PF no 14 on this site? I’ve always known it as No 3 and it is listed as so by Hollohan as well. Is the Hollohan paper not as definitive as I was lead to believe?
I’ll probably be asking more questions to members and ultimately offer my results to whoever wants them when I finish. Probably as some sort of spread sheet and possible a PDF tune book.
Callison - If you’re ever in my part of the country look me up. I’d love to share some tunes. If you’ve already done some of this work perhaps we can coordinate our efforts.

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callison - I meant to tell you thanks for the recording link. I got it awhile back from University of Limerick but the file was corrupted and un-listenable - actually I think it was the tape they recorded the file from by the sounds of it. Hopefully this one is better as i haven’t heard it yet.
Your first link is dead.

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The URL problem for the ABC file appears to be the right parenthesis at the end. If you delete that, it works fine.

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My first reaction at seeing the title of this thread was "well, this will be short!"

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Thanks for the Fahey link there callison, great stuff. Cheers

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The collection of Paddy Fahey tunes on this site seems to be notably difficult to navigate. Regardless of how they are numbered (for a title search) doesn’t it make sense to provide a way to search Paddy Fahey compositions with some indication (other than the sequential submission link #) which would be helpful in finding them individually; rather than all under the same title [i.e. "Paddy Fahey’s]?

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I advise resisting the urge to add numbers of any sort to the Fahey tunes. The man, himself, is still alive and he asked that this not be done. They are Mr. Fahey’s tunes. Adding numbers seems very disrespectful. Just leave them be.

Re: Paddy Fahey tune names &/or #s

With all due respect to Mr. Fahey his tunes are posted here in thesession.org database and people are discussing how to search this collection. It would help to hear from him directly about this significant collection of his compositions and the recurring discussions on the website.

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We should respect his wishes if that is the case but I suppose I assumed that he must have been aware that Maria Hollohan indexed them in her dissertation. They obviously spent a fare amount of time together at the time. This is not the same as naming them and it would seem that there are those on this site with intimate knowledge of Mr. Fahey’s wishes that know we should not name them thus. It would be interesting to hear first hand accounts of these conversations as well as Maria Hollohan’s take on the matter. I certainly meant no disrespect to anyone including the administrators of this site and especially Paddy Fahey. I suppose I should have realized that this had been gone over before.

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I find it absolutely amazing that anyone would request that their tunes not be put in any order and then give them all the same name. Imagine a session that gets started with "Paddy Fahey’s" - and two hours later they’re just getting to the last one in some random order. ;^)

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Some people give their children their name, like George Foreman the boxer. George has 5 sons, all "George Foreman." It’s motivation to keep in shape so they can’t beat the crap out of him, I’d guess.

Last night per request I played a reel in D minor and then loudly announced "Paddy Fahy’s #1"! So this system is good for a joke, at least. Also, to be honest, having listened to his corpus, there are about 10 tunes of his that I quite like, and the rest are just strange, so keeping them straight isn’t a big deal for me.

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Ha! When I opened up the ABC link Google wanted to translate it, thought it was Portuguese. Thanks for those links Callison.

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The full Fahey repertoire isn’t common in local sessions where I live. Just a few of the better ones float to the top and show up here and there. So as a practical matter, it’s not a big deal to just call ‘em "Paddy Fahey" when someone asks. Then have a laugh about knowing several with the same name.

I can see where it’s frustrating when you try to learn many of the tunes, or look them up here on the mustard database.

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I only know two PF reels and IAW Maria Holohan, they’re the first and the last (#1 & #26) so perhaps I can get away with just calling "First and last!" and see what kind of commotion I can give rise to!

FWIW, is there anyone that knows the full Fahey repertoire?

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You can number them for your own reference, but don’t expect anyone else to know it by your numbers. The snippet system will take care of that

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Transcripts of the Paddy Fahey Tunes referred to, and numbered, in Maria Holohan’s thesis (12 jigs, 2 hornpipes, and 29 reels) can be found as .PDF files in the Tune Library pages of www.rudemex.co.uk. I have always assumed that the numbering given by MH is generally accepted as a way of identifying them, but perhaps someone familiar with him and his compositions could confirm this, or otherwise.

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Thank you Kenny. Very nice music.

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A good example of the proper way to reference the Fahey tunes is on the recordings of the Kane sisters. They simply refer to the tunes as "Paddy Fahey’s". They do not use any other name and certainly do not number them. On their CD, "The Well tempered Bow", they include seven Fahey tunes, all of them listed identically as "Paddy Fahey’s".

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Knowing how a tune goes is more important than knowing what it is called.

Re: Paddy Fahey’s tunes

True, Yhaal.

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"The Hop Down"
By Breda Keville

https://thesession.org/recordings/2085
But if anyone knows how the tunes in Tracks 6 & 11 go I don’t see what it would hurt to correct {i.e. EDIT} any inaccurate links.

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I’ve been reluctant to post my thoughts on what seems like a bit of a touchy subject for some people. I’ve started to do my research and cannot help but voice my opinion on a couple matters.
First of all, there are more the just a few of his tunes that are not "just weird" as someone noted. There is a lot of value in most of if not all of his tunes. They take some getting used to is all but it is worth listening to good interpretations.
There seem to be more than just a few tunes outside of Maria Holohan’s paper that are named Paddy Fahey’s. In fact I am having a difficult time varifying the Kane Sisters Fahey tunes. Were they written after the dissertation? Mis-identified? Did Paddy not remember at the time the dissertation was written. These are questions I am interested in. Furthermore, I am interested in this as a musician but also a budding amateur ethnomusicologist. The Fahey ‘song collection’ has become important to me in it’s entirety. Knowing the melodies of the tunes is certainly more important but the collection of tunes has real value and in my opinion there should be an easier way to find them and understand them for everyone. I would suggest this will only help preserve his music which has to be a good thing.
In the case of Dave Flynn who’s album has 20 Fahey tunes of which he uses the Holohan index system, there are two jigs and two reels that he uses numbers higher than her index. He is a scholar so I am certain he identified them correctly, and labeled them as the next two added to Holohan’s index. I’ve tried to contact him to know where he
Picked them up.
I will use Holohan’s index for myself. I know in my own heart that it does not disrespect Paddy Fahey. I really cannot wrap myself around the idea of why we can’t just refer to the numbers as an index, not a tune name. All of Paddy’s tunes are indexed by the tune number on this sight anyway.

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Well, you can always put "no. 9" in the tune search section and then pick out the Fahey specific hits. One page vs 29 pages. I haven’t tried more than two numbers to see what comes up but I suspect that positive results will be few.

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callison - Yep. That’s what I intend to do. But before you can do that you really have to know the collection better. I thought there were more numbers as akas but there are really only a few of which a couple do not coincide with the Holohan index (e.g. Reel No. 3 is listed as No. 14, Jig No. 1 on this site is listed twice - one the very well known Martin Hayes in g min and the other the a min that was not in the dissertation but which Dave Flynn calls No. 14 as an apparent extension of Holohan’s index. I’ve been working on this daily and it’s fun and the music as I come to know it is exceeding my expectations.