What kind one tonguing ist this?

What kind one tonguing ist this?

Hello,
I have listened a lot to this incredible performance of Tom Doorley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAkfr2OfRAQ

I have tried to imitate the tonguing he uses on his triplets, for example around 1:10. I used to play the silver flute, therefore I have my experiences with tonguing and double tonguing. But I can’t get what technique he uses there!
And a more general question: Have you also made the experience, that ist is much harder to make tonguing work on a conical flute? I play a M&E ebonite flute and really like it, but somehow, tonguing on it is much harder than compared to the silver flute.
All the best
David

Re: What kind of tonguing ist this?

sry, I messed up the title

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

I have only listened once, but it looks like he is mixing tonguing on the first beat of each triplet and a regular descending cut on the following note.

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

Sounds to me like he uses a normal single tongue to launch a cran. A cran is a triple gracing of the note, not a triplet or tonguing technique. It can be performed in a variety of ways, but to cran a D, I tap f# e and d in quick succession, or I might play the d to start with as you would to play a long roll. In that case, the sound would be something like bump-ba-ba-ba. The tapped notes should not sound. Only the d(s) should be heard as a distinct note(s).

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Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

Tom Doorley is great, isn’t he? The videography isn’t really very good in this clip, but I invite you to watch his throat/larynx/adam’s apple are very closely. I don’t think he is tonguing so much as he is using a technique known as ‘throating’, or glottal stops along with breath pulsing to emphasize and make his ornaments stand out.
:) You are not in Kansas, anymore! Classic flute technique won’t get’er done! :)

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

I think he is tonguing some of the time though. It may help to listen to Matt Molloy in a clip that youtube offered me after that one. In the tune at the end anything that sounds like tonguing almost certainly is not!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3EU2b3g8E

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

While we’re at it, please listen to Erwan Munguy in this recording.
Can anyone figure out what ornament he’s using to get the vibrato effect on the longer notes.
Sounds like some craning to me but it might be restricting airflow on some open holes while holding.
Best ….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYREXxIbKI0

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

When the tune change from the minor key to the major one, on that lift, he is not using ornamentation at all. If you listen carefully, he is playing a low note following by a fast triplet. If you are playing this on a D flute, it would be something like d>B (3ded cB instead d3 d cB. Some good tonguing is also involved there.

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

Thanks Beleragor, I’m a bit slow. The sheet music is here ……
https://thesession.org/tunes/16384

At the end of 2nd bar / beginning of 3rd bar, there’s a ….. cd|B3c phrase.
He has an ornamentation on the B3, is that what you’re describing above. Instead of above he does cd|3ded bc ?
Thanks …

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

I was talking about the first bar on the third line. Just thought that you were talking about that bar cause it took me a while to figure out what he was doing when I started to play this tune.

On the third bar, he is doing something like a trill probably using the C key or just lifting the B finger really fast multiple times. I use the C key and with some practice it works great.

Re: What kind one tonguing ist this?

@Ailin: thank you, I will try making this work!
@postie: I wish I could say, Tom Doorley is a big inspiration for me, but his technique is so incredible perfect, that it is often too intimidating :D

In tempus fugit, at the last bar of the third line: Do you think Erwan Menguy uses double tonguing or normal tonguing? It sounds so crispy and strong! This is pretty much the kind of tonguing or ornamentation that I want to make work for me!