Musical interests of your session mates outside the innermost circle of ITM relevancy

I love Irish traditional music. I live for a night of tunes at my local session. There is nothing better than an endless night of endless tunes; if such a nirvanic state exists outside my personal pipedreams.

But methinks sessions’ personalities are rarely so single-minded. Are the things most relevant to ITM simple? What are the most relevant ideals of Irish sessions? Pardon my broad questions. My intention is not to be flippant about the need for sessions (& the~session in particular) to have a purpose and keep a steady course. That in itself is relevant. Isn’t it? I do respect the tunes, the sessions, the players, the traditions which have survived; maybe even thrived, the test of time. Do you think they have done so by divine providence, by the virtue of dedicated musicians relentless in the pursuit of ITM relevancy?

Or do you think what is relevant in the longevity of Irish traditional music is vast & few people can imagine all things might be *relevant* here.

Ben

ps

Thanks in advance for your musings.

that bit around the penultimate should have been, ‘few people can imagine all things (which) might be (considered) *relevant* here.’

;)

The motivation is beer. Play tunes, get a free beer or two.

A tradition is surely just that: a tradition.

Questions about “ideals” or motivation are themselves, by definition and with respect, irrelevant.

To misquote Confucius: “Before enlightenment, enjoy playing tunes. After enlightenment, enjoy playing tunes.”

> Questions about “ideals” or motivation are themselves, by definition and with respect, irrelevant.

Not irrelevant if you want to move on from description on to prediction and causal explanation. It seems the OP isn’t content with experience and wants to understand.

Thanks for the responses. Not much in the way of thinking outside the box as far as I can tell though.

Ben

Maybe not qualified to answer as I don’t go to pure ITM sessions, living in Scotland, though many of our sessions do include some Irish tunes, along with the Scottish and other ones.
However, among my musical friends there are a wide variety of other musical interests, some playing in several genres: these include klezmer, Scandi, bluegrass and Americana, ceilidh bands, classical symphony orchestra and chamber ensembles, singer-songwriter, jazz, blues. Then there are specific sessions for guitar, ukulele, banjo, etc, as well as many mixed instrument groups.
And many of my friends are also singers, so may just sing in sessions, belong to community folk or rock choirs, Gilbert & Sullivan Society, musical theatre, grand opera, etc.
One of the advantages of living in a city with so much on offer! I would say that most of us have several musical interests encompassed in that list.

I live in a rural area where the population isn’t big enough for people to get cliquey, we all just muck in together. Our regular weekly sessions have an a capella singing duo, a blues and americana duo, a couple of singer songwriter types and some fiddlers and whistlers with personal preferences ranging from Waggon Wheel to William Marshall. Everyone gets a chance to start their choice of music, and everyone else gets a chance to muck in. It isn’t pure drop, but its always a very enjoyable evening, which is what sessions are supposed to be about.

Ben, you may not know it, but you are looking for the meaning of life. Fortunately, you have come to the right place. Its about having fun.

Thanks for the responses. Now I’m sensing a move to push the *envelope* and crack open the shades a bit.
At least Trish & Mark are…

I’ve met plenty of trad players that have little or no interest in any music other than Traditional Music (although they no doubt have other non-musical interests). I also know plenty that enjoy classical, pop, rock, jazz, blues, bluegrass etc. - some of them also playing one or more of them. Many (including myself) have an interest in traditional music from other places - e.g. Scottish, Welsh, English, American, Québecois, French, Breton, Scandinavian, Balkan, Klezmer…

Thank you, all! I suppose I got what I asked for.

But that’s grand because none of you could possibly know what I was thinking. My mind has been peripatetic recently. I probably should not even begin to explain myself. But I am going to follow my emotions, my impulse
& throw caution to the wind (figuratively).

I do appreciate everyone posting about their session mates. It is what I asked for. I could tell you about my session mates, but we’d be here for a minute… Instead I’ll just let you in on what I was thinking when I posted.
I usually save the best for last. In other words the most important (relevant?) bit for me is at the end of my OP. And even then it’s only what is relevant to me, in my sessions. I have great reverence for sessions which I do not play in to decide their own course. Why be a backseat driver?

Yes, I’m rambling. Time to cut to the chase. My input is about the last point, "I think what is relevant in the longevity of Irish traditional music is vast & no one alone can imagine all things which are (& *aren’t*)
relevant in the full scope of Irish music." Looking at it now I still want to know what each of you think about that.
On reflection though I think myself arrogant.

But that’s just me. Please carry on with what I hope will be a lively discussion.

While I play traditional Irish music essentially 100% of the time when I’m out at sessions primarily on Uilleann pipes and Anglo Concertina, for the past few years, probably 70% of my at-home playing has been French musettes and tangos on C-system Chromatic Button accordion. It’s a guilty pleasure. Some of my session mates are into all kinds of other music, have gigs doing Beatles covers, some play Spanish bagpipes music, others Balkan music, but when we’re at the session, it’s generally 100% Irish traditional. Occasionally, after the session is over, if I get the nerve to bring the CBA out, another player (on mandolin) and I will go to town on the French musettes and tangos.

Ben In a lot of life situations, there are sometimes many root causes for something.
Why did/does ITM survive?

Probably lots of reasons,
Emigration to a place that gave ITM the best chance of survival
the lack of any other sources for creative release ( in Ireland ) for so long
The recording/vaudeville industry in the US in the early 20th C ( creating a time capsule )
Since the 80’s, the relative wealth of the population allowed for instruments to be purchased…..
Critical mass was reached

Pat

I enjoy a wide variety of music although most of what I play tends to be traditional (in idiom, at least).

However, I believe there is time and place for other genres of music and an Irish or other trad session…even a general folk music session …. is not the place.
I don’t understand why some of us are so keen to accept “free for all” scenarios. Players of other musical genres just wouldn’t put up with it. After all, you would dream of attending a jazz club, rock/blues night, Opera society meeting, or classical gathering and expect to get away with playing jigs and reels all night.

“You wouldN’T dream” I meant to say…..

My session mates have varied tastes. I know one is really into classic rock, another that uses baroque and even classic country to cleanse his palette when he needs an ITM break.
As for me, I’ve been listening to a lot of Grateful dead lately.

Johnny Jay: “I don’t understand why some of us are so keen to accept ”free for all“ scenarios.”

That seems tangential to the original topic (although I’m not entirely clear what that was). But I am willing to pick up the thread. Where I live, a small town in Mid Wales, for a regular session of any kind to survive, it *has* to be inclusive - there are simply not players of any one particular genre for it to work otherwise. There are occasions when we get a few visiting Irish trad players and the night takes on a strong Irish flavour, there are occasions when there is a preponderance of English or Welsh trad, or even Klezmer players - and there are nights when tune players of any kind are woefully outnumbered by singers, strummers, jammers and bangers. But whatever happens, the majority generally have a good time; and for those for whom it may be just tolerable, there are better times around the corner. Having a venue where the music is appreciated by staff and punters alike is too good a thing to sacrifice for the sake of idealism.

I was a hip hop DJ for many years.

I love dancehall music, I used to love funk a lot, the most recent non-Trad tune to blow my mind is this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u7kaOntQbsw

play video

I love the precision of inorganic music and the wholesomeness of analogue.

I really love the interplay between both.

Thanks again for all your personal responses. And thanks to my editor.
;)

“Having a venue where the music is appreciated by staff and punters alike is too good a thing to sacrifice for the sake of idealism”. CreadurMawnOrganig

How true our session has closed because new Pub owners, new ideas ……….. Move along get along ,move, go, shift.

“I don’t understand why some of us are so keen to accept ”free for all“ scenarios.”

Johnny, when I see the phrase free for all sessions on this site it seems to be one of those jabs inserted into a response which is assumed to be self-explanatory. Unfortunately it’s rarely self-explanatory.
So I’ll respond with what I hope is my best shot.

Sessions/scenarios are not sacred cows. Having said that, the sessions one plays in deserve respect
within the group. Players should know this, fresh visitors can learn it & host/punters/innocent bystanders
can make or break a session. I cannot say if I play in what you call free-for-alls. Maybe I have.
If I know the players (on a given night) I think we play what most of us want to play. Mostly we play Irish, Scottish, Morris tunes and music from Shoglenifty to Liz Carroll. We’ve welcomed visitors who play Zydeco, bluegrass, Luka Bloom, ranchera, a wide variety of other musics.

Are those scenarios free-for-alls? Yes, I was keen to hear what other players/visitors knew & play or listen.
It’s rarely if ever been disruptive to our regular session. We still mostly play the trad music we know
in the style we love and appreciate.

Hope that helps, Johnny.

Cheers,
Ben

Is this discussion & it’s responses a violation of house rule section 2 article 1?

It probably is.

All the best!

That’s up to Jeremy.

Johnny Jay: “I don’t understand why some of us are so keen to accept ”free for all“ scenarios.”

I like roast chicken, but I wouldn’t to eat it for every meal, variety is the spice of life.

For me the best sessions are the ones where someone throws something new and unexpected into the mix and you have to think on your feet and use all your musicianship to adapt. The worst sessions are the ones where everyone just plays the same old same old, and you know every tune like the back of your hand.

“The worst sessions are the ones where everyone just plays the same old same old, and you know every tune like the back of your hand.”

Learn some new tunes then. The traditional music repertoire isn’t exactly small.

Actually, I don’t mind the occasional deviation from the norm, e.g. the *occasional* song or music from another genre as long as I have a good idea of what the general structure of the session or gathering is going to be.

Of course, as I said, it’s not something which is usually welcomed within other genres of music or even in some other “folky sessions” e.g. singarounds (Tunes are usually frowned upon), Americana and bluegrass sessions etc, and, worse of all, those “Out of the bedroom” type singer song writer gatherings. Just try playing your Irish and Scottish tunes there.

I should make it clear that I, personally, don’t have any issue with sessions where different styles of traditional of traditional music are played. I’m quite happy to play Scottish, Irish, Shetland, and music from many other countries. The tunes can be old or new as lang as I like them. However, if something is specifically advertised as an “Irish” session or that has become the defacto practice there, then that’s something I would accept and respect. Same if it was predominantly Scottish tunes.

I’m still not exactly sure what you’re question is, and I’m not qualified to talk about what is relevant to the longevity of Irish trad… But, it would seem to me, that it may have something, and everything, to do with that “nirvanic state” you mentioned. I think it will keep going as long as it’s being shared, and people getting exposed to it. I find I have been drawn away from any interest in playing other types of music. I enjoy all kinds of music, but THIS Music is absolutely all I need (and all I choose to play anymore). The power and purity of the melody and it’s rhythm, phrasing, nuance etc. It doesn’t need anything else, it’s simple and complex and… (OMG, I’m obsessed with it!). However, I think people playing in sessions need to aim for a half-decent standard of skill, otherwise punters will start to hate it and we’ll have to keep to our own homes to play it.

If I ended up stranded in some place with no Irish trad, I would make it my sole purpose to convert people, teach them myself if I had to. Seriously. I wouldn’t stop, and I wouldn’t switch to another kind of music.

“Learn some new tunes then”. I’m sure plenty of us know tunes that are not part of the “same old, same old” repertoire, but in certain sessions might desist from playing anything “new” (which might be 200 years old!) because you get that long hard caustic stare: “how dare you play something we don’t ALL know?” Not my type of session, sorry. Always to keen to hear anything “new” on offer, and while the cynics might call it showing off by the player of said “new” tune, I disagree. What I really absolutely hate to see is someone crumple up and stop playing, having previously played very nicely, because, “oh, you don’t know this tune then?” It is surely part of the development of sessions that “new” tunes get introduced from time to time?

I agree that introducing new or different tunes into the repertoire is a far better idea than throwing in a few Elvis Presley songs(OK, an extreme example 🙂 ) just for the sake of more variety.

The point I was making is that there is already enough potential for as much variety and interest within Irish(Or Scottish etc) Music itself and certainly within traditional music in general. If the repertoire gets stale, that can easily be rectified without having to resort to music from another genre.

I have too much appreciation for the vast world that is Irish Trad to presume it to be anything but full to the brim with everything that was, is and will be. The only way to be relevant (about IT) is to accept and appreciate it for all that it is.

“full to the brim with everything that was, is and will be” ??? Surely not!

I mean, there is an actuality outside and beyond I.T.M.

Johnny Jay: “The point I was making is that there is already enough potential for as much variety and interest within Irish(Or Scottish etc) Music itself and certainly within traditional music in general. If the repertoire gets stale, that can easily be rectified without having to resort to music from another genre.”

I can’t argue with that, but it doesn’t really address the original point, which was that there aren’t always enough ITM enthusiasts in an area to make up a viable session, and in that case you just have to work with what you’ve got. And if that means sitting through the occasional Elvis song so what? It only lasts three minutes, and then he’ll have to sit through your music.

Hi Mark,

Yes, I see your point too and my arguments have indeed deviated from the original topic. Sorry about that.

With regards to the original post, I don’t believe the fact that some musicians regard their music as very “precious” and are very dedicated to playing same is necessarily a unique phenomenon as far as irish Music is concerned. I’m also sure that the majority of players have several other interests in life and other musical tastes. They may even play or sing several different varieties of music at other times and locations.

Basically, I just think it’s better to have a time and place everything and I like to know what to expect. For instance, I might still choose to attend a bluegrass session or a singaround but I would either be prepared to “fit in” or be happy enough to listen.

I agree that there is often a shortage of players in some rural areas but, surely, it’s best to make it clear that this is an “Anything goes” session from the start? We can then decide to go or not.

And yes, as I mentioned earlier, I don’t really mind the occasional deviation from the norm even if it is an Elvis song. 🙂 Generally, however, I prefer to have an idea of how things are likely to progess during the evening although I enjoy nice surprises too… e.g. when some really good musicians are passing and “pop in” for a pint and a quick tune. etc.

Yes, I’m with you on that, it would be nice to know what to expect. I think part of the problem here in Scotland is that sessions are rarely pure Irish, even the most traditional sessions contain a fair proportion of Scottish and other music, so they don’t get called Irish sessions, they are just sessions, which doesn’t give you much of a clue. Perhaps if we started calling them ‘traditional sessions’ that would make it clearer that it’s not anything goes.

One of my favourite nights isn’t a session, it’s a folk club, which is very much ‘anything goes’, the only rule is that it must be purely acoustic. It’s quite nice watching how newcomers adapt - the singer-songwriter who realizes the stuff he mumbles in his bedroom doesn’t really work for a room full of people, the country cowboy who discovers his improvised hot licks are meaningless without an electric rhythm section to hold it all together. At that point they almost always start moving towards trad (though there is usually a fairly painful transition period where we get endless renditions of Dirty Old Town and the Irish Rover).

That’s precisely it, Gobby. Inside and outside are the same thing.