Are reels played faster than polkas?

someone I vaguely know has suggested, in rather insulting, haughty, condescending terms, that I am an unmusical idiot for believing that polkas and slides are played faster than reels.

is he right?

Should this thread be called “Reely fast”?

They should if it’s best that way - and shouldn’t if it’s best that way…

If one bar of reel was played to fit the steps for two bars of polka could it be faster for than dancer than if a polka was being played.

I don’t know, but it might fit something said, or rather quoted, elsewhere …

.. for a dancer …

That depends…..

Is this a set dancing question? There are plenty of examples on Youtube.

I have seen the discussion on Mudcat, Matt! ’Nuff said!

Re. the mudcat discussion, the funny thing is that my recollection of what Jackie Daly said (as told to me by the same person who made the comment that sparked this altercation) is that, on the occasion in question, the dancers wanted the reels so fast that as a form of protest Jackie played polkas instead (and _not_ that he played reels because they wanted the polkas too fast). 😉

I could of course be remembering it all wrong, but so could the other fella.

PS Have just found written evidence that the originator of the story has not changed his version, so I was wrong about that. I could have heard the opposite story from Jackie himself, can’t be certain at this distance. It certainly makes more sense to me to play 2/4 reels, which is what polkas are basically, instead of 2/2 reels if you want to speed things up.

In Scotland we don’t have the Irish style polkas, but we do have an abundance of reels distinct from the usual 4/4 reel, which I usually call 2/4 reels (for want of a better term). When it comes to a dance like an eightsome reel, a requirement is to play reels at a fairly fast tempo. I have noticed that many dance bands use these 2/4 reels in an eightsome for the reason given above: they are much easier to play at that tempo than 4/4 reels.

Now you’ll want examples. Mmm. Off the top of my head: Because He Was a Bonny Lad, Eight Men of Moidart, Peat Fire Flame, Farewell to Whisky, Come Let Us Dance and Sing, The Boatie Rows, Loch Torridon, Lass o’ Gowrie, Babes in the Wood, Drumleys, This is No My Ain Hoose, Duncan Gray, McGregor’s March, Lord Randall’s Bride, Alasdair of the Dun, that’ll do.

When I listen to Kevin Burke playing Charlie Harris‘ polka, the pace feels a lot faster than when De Dannan play Charlie Harris’ reel. If I’d listen to both tracks simultaneously, the reel would finish long before the polka. Is this what you’re thinking of, Matt?

Just my opinion, but I think that reels can be played anywhere between “leisurely” and “furiously”. Some players could easily play a reel at 128 bpm (e.g Frankie Gavin). I prefer playing them a bit more leisurely myself, maybe round 100bpm, although if I’m on the bodhran for a set then I’m happy for the players to give it some welly. For polkas, they can be played anywhere between “lively” and “furiously”. I would play polkas at around 140bpm. Basically, whilst I would say that reels can be played slow and still sound great, I don’t think polkas can.

All entirely subjective, of course!
m.d.

I’d like to echo Nigel Gatherer’s point. Most of what are now generally known as 2/4 reels in Scotland were once known as Scots Measures and thought of as being distinct from reels (a few even have ‘Scots measure’ in their titles). Because the eightsome reel and some others are not only played fast, but often require a lot of different tunes, many of what are played as 2/4 reels are really adapted song tunes or 2/4 marches.

To hell with the dancers. If all they want is tempo let them dance to canned music recorded by 20somethings who had been guzzling Red Bull all day.

Get back to making music.

“In Scotland we don’t have the Irish style polkas, but we do have an abundance of reels distinct from the usual 4/4 reel, which I usually call 2/4 reels (for want of a better term)”

Yes, that’s a lot like English tunes from the north of England and a lot of Northumbrian tunes. They’re just 2/4 tunes, and not generally allocated a specific tune-type in English tunebooks (though there are quite a few such Northumbrian tunes called reels).

I play several of the tunes you mention: ‘Because He Was a Bonny Lad’, ‘The Boatie Rows’ and ‘Duncan Gray’. I generally think of myself as playing in a Northumbrian style when I do so, because I’ve listened to a lot of Northumbrian music in my time and still do; and learned such tunes from Northumbrian and northern English tunebooks such as ‘Great Northern Tunebook’ (aka the Vickers collection) and the Winders of Wyresdale book.

This whole question only came up because I stupidly allowed myself to get into an online argument with someone known for being aggressive and petty, who was saying things like “Reels are the fastest type of Irish music” and “Jackie Daly plays reels faster than polkas”. Someone who, bizarrely, claims that even though the typical metronome tempo he sets for playing polkas and jigs is higher than the speed he uses for reels, that doesn’t mean they are played faster. I think all he was saying is that reels tend to have the most notes in the shortest space of time. God knows. Said individual is notorious in certain circles; he brings out the worst in people and I should have known better than to have risen to the bait.

I can play polkas at ‘Sliabh Luachra speed’ without too much trouble, if I tried playing reels at the same rate I would make a complete
b-----x of them - I guess because polkas have a lot less notes to the bar than reels?

“I stupidly allowed myself to get into an online argument with someone known for being aggressive and petty…”

Sometimes we can’t help ourselves, Matt, but you can’t win, especially with the pig-headed person you tussled with. We’ve all done it, but remember what George Bernard Shaw said: “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.” 🙂

“To hell with the dancers…”

Yes, I don’t know what dancing has got to do with this music anyway.

I think this question could be more complex than it first looks. If you’re looking at session playing, you would need to look to the conventions of the sessions in your area; they may not all play the same tunes at the same speed. If you’re looking at playing for dancing, you will need to be led by the dancer(s) and let them dictate the pace - that will very much depend on the dance they’re trying to do. If you’re looking to create music which is session- and dance- independent, you can choose how to play the tune yourself.

I think we can often lose sight of the reason why we play the music we play. If we don’t have to play for dancing, we can interpret a tune however we want. It doesn’t “have to be played this way because it’s always played this way”. Think about the tune title - dig a little bit into who wrote it, when they wrote it and why they wrote it. We, as musicians, can use music to tell a story. We can use music to make people laugh, make them cry, soothe a troubled soul or call people to action. Let that inform how you play a tune. Tell a story through your playing.