Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Hi,
If anyone knows the second, third and fifth tunes in this video, I’d love to know! First I believe is "The Last Rose of Summer", and I think the fourth is "The Leaving of Liverpool."
https://youtu.be/DCx88gtO9M4

Bit embarrassed after the "Irish merrymaking medley" tune ID I posted recently, but I think most people will like this one better.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

sounds like a midi file on steroids.

anyway before I wash my ears out again, there was the balck velvet band, molly malone and the boys won’t leave the girls alone.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

2. The Black Velvet Band
3. Cockles and Mussels
5. I’ll Tell Me Ma

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Snap, Theirlandais! Interesting, though, that we have different titles for two of them.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Cockles & Mussels = Molly Malone
The Boys Won’t Leave The Girls Alone = I’ll Tell Me Ma

Alternate names, that’s all.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

@NfldWhistler: Yes, I realised that. Just interested that we used different bits of the lyrics for the titles. In retrospect, ‘Molly Malone’ sounds more like an ‘official’ title. I’ve never heard ‘The Boys Won’t Leave The Girls Alone’ used as a title for the other one, though.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Thanks!

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Whoever trained those wasps to buzz in unison needs to be hunted down and dealt with ruthlessly.

Posted by .

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

I’ll refrain from further comment on the tune selection, but I was interested in the pipes - the cd cover shows a set of Highland Bagpipes , obviously not what was playing - they didnt quite sound like Northumbrian smallpipes, Border pipes maybe?

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Christy, Rob Crabtree is a Canadian piper. I’m fairly sure, as far as pipes go, he only plays the great highland pipes. I agree though that it sounds unusually mellow for highland pipes. Probably just a very good example of recording engineering.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

He’s playing Scottish smallpipes.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

David Kennedy: "… it sounds unusually mellow for highland pipes. Probably just a very good example of recording engineering."

No sound engineer is that good (…although you could pobably get fairly close nowadays using digital acoustic modelling - but why would you?). Bogman has it right.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

" but why would you?). Bogman has it right." Correct on both counts.

Posted by .

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

also I noticed all the tunes are in concert pitch D and G - surely not possible on the Highland pipes? Do Scottish smallpipes usually play in standard fiddle keys?

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Christy, there is a slight oddity with the recording. The tunes are is Eb and Ab which would suggest they’re played on Eb smallpipes - it’s certainly the fingering for an Eb set. D sets are reasonably common but personally I’ve never come across an Eb set - they do exist though.

The much more common A smallpipes will play in G if they have a c natural key, A, Bm, D and some tunes in Fm.
Obviously without naming the various modes.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

thanks bogman. or maybe it was recorded at concert pitch then the speed was cranked up a semitone? we may never know.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Perhaps Richard Cook can chime in here, but in all my years of Vermont Bellowspipe School, Pipers Gathering, etc. I’ve never come across an Eb set of smallpipes. The fingering would be extremely tight. I don’t think Rob is playing an Eb set.

Of course, Bb sets are more common, and would be able to play in Eb. As for A sets playing in G, there are some G tunes available, but very, very few. G tunes would be much more easily found on D sets.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

"there are some G tunes available, but very, very few" - nonsense.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Bogman -

I was referring to G tunes on A pipes. The odd G tune can be played on an A set, but not common at all. To play the standard pipe tune repertoire, you’d need both a Cnat key and a low F key. Again, not common at all. If it’s tunes in G you want, best to use a D set.

I agree that Crabtree does not appear to be playing a Bb set. I just don’t know what he is playing. And, yes, Julian makes an Eb flat. All I said was I’ve never come across such a thing (and Julian has been to my home a number of times, btw). I didn’t say it couldn’t be done. If you’ve played a D chanter, then no doubt you’d agree that an Eb chanter would be a very tight fit.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Terves and Tunes -

The older pipe repertoire is full of G tunes played on an A chanter. (Bb chanter of course). Usually missing the c altogether, but why on earth would you need a low f key for pipe tunes? Playing tunes a step down is how the sharp 7th was achieved and is in countless tunes. The G tune under the A drones is one of the great characteristics of the pipes. Simply look through Scots Guards book one, Donald Macleods books, or for an even higher concentration of G tunes, older collections that include Gaelic songs played on the pipes. Maybe you don’t play G tunes in Vermont but they are commonplace here.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

I think we are communicating at cross purposes. I’m not talking about the G tunes written specifically for the Highland pipes. There are several, although I must say in all the years of the likes of Fin, Gary W., Hamish, Iain MacInnes et. al. teaching in Vermont, these tunes were not commonly played.

What I was trying to convey is my concern with attempting to move the standard A tune repertoire down to G.
What you said was "the much more common A small pipes will play in G if they have a c natural key". This is confusing, since in referencing MacLeod, Scots Guards etc. you would agree that there is clearly no c natural key involved.

So, just what are you trying to convey? G tunes written specifically for the GHB? Absolutely. But standard A tunes moved down a full tone? I’ll stick to my premise for now.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

As I say, they may not be played in Vermont but they are here. Also, there are lots of old G tunes with a C natural that have become popular with the resurgence of border pipes and the possibility of a c nat key on smallpipes. I’d imagine they’re not commonly taught as not all taking lessons will have a c nat option.

I didn’t say anything about A tunes moved down a tone. You said there were very, very few G tunes available on the pipes. That is not true.

In the context of this site, it would be true to say there are few Irish tunes available to A pipes, but there are hundreds of Scottish ones.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

As far as the recording goes, I think what we have here is a C# set (ie the GHB player’s low A fingering comes out as C#) but in A=481 rather than A=440 (or a D set flattened down, perhaps more likely).

This is likely because the rest of the record is probably on GHB and keeping everything based on A=481 avoids weird sounding pitch changes between tracks, a consideration when everything is in a single nine note scale.

Posted by .

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Bogman -

I told you I thought you were addressing standard A tunes. My bad. Can you not even admit your initial comment was a bit confusing?

And as to G tunes written for GHB, they are easily played on an A set of pipes without cross fingering or keys. Why did you even reference a C nat key if you were initially talking about G tunes written specifically for pipes? Your comment "the much more common A small pipes will play in G if they have a c natural key" then doesn’t make any sense. A C nat key is not necessary.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Calum -

Interesting idea. I’ve always loved the sound of a C set, by the way. My first set purchased 32 years ago was in C. Among other things, the finger spacing is brilliant.

I’ve posted a note on Dunsire asking if anyone has any insight. I’ll let you know what the response is.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Bogman -

One more thing before I have run out for the afternoon. And I’m not trying to pick another fight, just curious. You said "also, there are lots of old G tunes with a C natural that have become popular with the resurgence of border pipes and the possibility of a c nat key on smallpipes.". I don’t think you’re suggesting that MacLeod, or anything in Scots Guards, etc. indicates that use of cross fingering to get a C nat. was condoned in the GHB world. Are you suggesting that, at some point earlier in the history of GHB, cross fingering a C nat. was deemed permissible?

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

I mentioned a c natural key because I was talking about G tunes in general - ones written for the pipes and others that weren’t specifically.

If you simply move G tunes written for the pipes up to A you lose the sharp 7th and also the note above the octave. A good example of such tunes is Angus MacKays book which includes G tunes from the Puirt repertoire.

Anyway, I’m out, the relevance to Irish music is getting more distant by the post!

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Just to answer your last question, I wasn’t suggesting that. I’m referring to tunes pulled from song and the fiddle for example.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Wow, who would have known that an ID question like this would generate this many posts!
Being blind, I didn’t know about the album cover, but they definitely sound like Scottish smallpipes to me.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

Jim McGillivray weighed in on the Dunsire Forum in response to my inquiry. He recollection is (and he would know) that Rob Crabtree was playing mouth-blown Shepard small pipes in D.

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

It would have to be assumed then that the whole recording is notched up a semi-tone. Unusual, but it Frankie Gavin can do it… (allegedly!)

Re: Tune ID (I promise, this one is better!)

If you’re in the conversation Terves and Tunes it would be interesting to know how the track is in flat keys.