Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Sounds like Drunken Landlady in Gdor.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

"Drunken Landlady", I’d agree, but what’s the first tune, the march ?

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

The Battle of Aughrim.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

I don’t think so. There are similarities, certainly, but it’s not like any version of it I’ve heard in the last 50 years, from Martin Byrnes, "The Chieftains", Joe Burke and possibly dozens of others.

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Another vote for Drunken Landlady for #2.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Yeah, it’s probably Drunken Landlady. It’s similar enough (though at first I thought it was a reel version of the march).

I can’t say that the first tune makes me think of the Battle of Aughrim. Although not identical, I think it’s similar enough to Johnny Cope (or at least a member of the family):
https://thesession.org/tunes/4953
https://thesession.org/tunes/2327

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

The tune is The Battle of Aughrim, in the clip above they start with the second part, only time I heard played in that order, not that it really matters.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

The march sure is similar to Battle of Aughrim, especially their B part, which sounds a lot like the A part that I know. But their A part doesn’t sound much at all like the B part that I know…

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

What do you mean A part B part. The Battle of Aughrim is usually play in A minor all the way through.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Please provide us with an example of any recording you know of any musician playing the tune in that clip under the title "The Battle Of Aughrim".

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

This is "The Battle Of Aughrim" [ or at least one version ]
https://youtu.be/UN8esboT36Q

- do you think that’s the tune Messrs Hayes and Crawford are playing in the clip above ? If so, I respectfully suggest you go to the aural equivalent of "Specsavers".

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

OK - it’s close enough to be considered as an "original setting" of "The Battle Of Aughrim". I will admit to having been confused by the reversing the order of the parts, something you’re allowed to do, but I could never see the point of . Fair play to the "goose" for having spotted that. I’ll leave it at that.

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

How long have you been play traditional irish music?

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

By A and B parts, I meant the first and second parts, not the key.

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To me it is the *Battle of Aughrim. I was able to play along with the recording. Are some saying it isn’t?
As to reversing the parts sometimes we do this; not on this march. But we don’t always play tunes in the
expected order. Which may be what Kevin & Martin are doing in the lunchtime concert.

(*I thought I first learnt it after hearing Lunasa play it. Although now I cannot find anywhere that
they recorded it.)

Ben

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Yes AB and a lovely setting of it.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Reverend, Irish musicians call the parts by numbers.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

@goose…
Huh……?? Numbers??
I’m relatively new to ITM, so I’m keen to learn about this numbers bit.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Is that so goose? I’ve usually heard it called "A Part", "B Part", "C Part", etc etc.., and on some occasions, "First Part", "Second Part", "Third Part", etc etc.. Which is to say, "only" might not be the correct word … maybe in your local region that’s the case.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

The Irish trad musicians I know use A, B, C for parts because Irish trad usually (not always) ends at that point.

The Scottish musicians I know uses numbers. Especially pipers. Because those darned Scottish pipe tunes are so long, that counting up to 5 is easier than saying the "E Part." 🙂

And yeah, that sounds reminiscent of Battle of Aughrim to me, but it might be a Scottish march that one of them picked up with just a reference to that tune in one section. The full tune isn’t the version played locally, but that doesn’t mean anything. A performance band needs to find fresh or different versions of tunes to play.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Just as an historical side excursion as to why The Battle of Aughrim still reverberates to this day, it should be noted that this was perhaps the bloodiest battle ever fought in the entirety of the UK. Greater than Culloden, and effectively ended any Jacobite action in Ireland. Estimates place it at nearly 7,000 dead. It was known as Aughrim of the Slaughter. The Williamite General ordered his dead buried, but left the bodies of the Jacobites to rot and molder,their bones to be scattered over the fields for decades after. Even today, when the M6 Motorway was proposed to be built through the battlefield, there was a huge contoversy.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Reels Jigs Hornpipes Marches
Set Dances etc have parts 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th 5th not A part B part C part.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Kenny, I didn’t spot anything, I listened and that’s how they played it.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

@postie, another interesting thing, the battle was fought on the 12th July 1691 [just happens to be today] but for some reason its the Battle of the Boyne the previous year, also 12/7 , thats still celebrated by Ulster Loyalists as ‘The Twelfth’, though it was a far lesser battle than Aughrim. As for the tune, it definitely has elements of the well-known ‘Battle of Aughrim’ but whether its a variant or another tune entirely , who knows? The answer my friend, is blowin in the wind…………….

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

@Goose……
Yes, I agree that dances have numbered parts, certainly. But tunes, have never seen it. Two different points, I think.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

**Pedantry Alert**

@Christy Taylor - The Battle of the Boyne took place on 1st July 1690, under the old Julian calendar. After the Gregorian calendar became the official standard, the Battle of Aughrim was apparently still commemorated on 12th July, its date directly transposed into the new calendar. That date was close to the true anniversary of the Boyne (the battle would have taken place on 11th July 1690 had the Gregorian calendar been in use at that time), and the events apparently began to be commemorated together something over 200 years ago.
I have no idea why Aughrim is rarely referred to in references to the modern "twelfth" celebrations.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

We’ve done a pretty good job of hijacking this thread in a couple different directions… But that’s OK. @gooseinthenettles, just because Irish musicians around you number the tune parts doesn’t mean that others don’t use letters. I have heard letters used to designate the different parts of a tune way more than numbers…

If you need further proof, here is a quick search of the discussions here for the term "A part" https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+thesession.org/discussions+%22A+Part%22

And if you search in the Tunes section, where people are discussing the tunes, it is also quite prevalent.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+thesession.org/tunes+%22A+Part%22

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Then there are the auld boys who just refer to the tune (first part) and the turn (second part). Not sure how they handle tunes with more than 2 parts.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Ha, maybe the "re-turn"? 😉

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

I agree that the Battle of Aughrim is related to Johnny Cope, and this version of it I feel shares more similarities than the usual setting. The B part (second part) in this video is usually the A part (first part), and seems close to Micho Russell’s setting (which Sean Gavin / Jessie Smith also recorded).

Anyway, to me the parts correspond to the earliest settings of Johnny Cope such that the A part here is similar to the C part of the O’Farrell / Aird setting, and the B part corresponds to the A part of that setting, but is actually more similar to the polka / march setting such as found in Roche / O’Neill’s Music of Ireland, and which is also very similar to the Battle of Aughrim. Those versions referenced can be seen here:
https://rushymountain.com/2017/10/06/johnny-cope/

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

I suppose you will all tell me
The Drunken Sailor and
The Groves hornpipe are the same tune.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Alright, I’ll post is as a Gan Ainm, since my ears don’t agree with Battle of Aughrim (at least not any setting on the site, no matter which part I play first).

Thanks for the input.

https://thesession.org/tunes/18134

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Sorry to come into this so late, but I’ve just stumbled on to it. Kenny is correct: the tune is _not_ The Battle of Aughrim. It is taught by Kevin Crawford as the 12th tune in his OAIM series "Advanced Flute Technique" and in introducing the tune he tells us that he calls it "Mac’s March", but that that is not the correct title. The correct title (he says) is ‘The High Hills of Tara’. I briefly played it with the Battle of Aughrim as a set before coming to my senses. Chet

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Yes, Chet has it - see the video of The Teetotallers (Crawford, Hayes & Doyle) playing The High Hills of Tara/The Drunken Landlady, at The Front Hall April 28, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyaD7V8O510


And also on the 19 minute video of The Teetotallers live on WTJU, May 2012: The High Hills of Tara, at 3:30 followed by The Drunken Landlady.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulEWGigl3xk


The tune The High Hills of Tara:
https://thesession.org/tunes/13737

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

As a result, I asked Jeremy to merge my Gan Ainm tune with The High Hills of Tara.

Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

Thank you, Chet. ;)

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Re: Tune ID (Blas Lunchtime Concert - O’Kane, Crawford, Hayes & Higgins(2))

PPS : A flute player who occasionally posts here played the first tune in the OP’s video at a session we had last night.
I asked where he got it from. Answer - Kevin Crawford at a flute class in Belfast a few weeks ago.
I asked "What did he call it ?" Answer - "The High Hills Of Tara" [ not "The Battle Of Aughrim" ].

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