Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

The Session.org has become multi-cultural over the years and I think this makes it great for anyone wanting to find a particular tune - that’s not Irish. Any opinions on this, good folks?

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

I posted "Il cane sul pavimento" here and it is a pleasant, cheerful tune (tho’ not Italian sounding).

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Well Susan, despite all the different views you get on this site, when you go to a session it’s always a good thing to "Do as The Romans do"

(Did you see what I did there?)
:-)

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

There seems to be a general feeling reflected in tunes posted here that this site is for what might be called Bitish/Celtic traditional music: the traditional music of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and Brittany, with some outliers like Cornish, Manx, or certain North American traditions. In my own opinion, this focus is a good one, since these traditions are related and often listeners and performers interested in one of them will also have some interest in some of the others.

I’m not objecting to the presence of other tunes here or suggesting that there be a policy against posting them, just contributing my own feeling that the present focus which has developed is useful.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

The first thing on the first page of this website states: "The Session is a community website dedicated to Irish traditional music." I tend to take that as a guideline. It’s not that everything on here is strictly Irish, but it tends to lean toward things that are acceptable in an Irish session. That sometimes includes Scottish, English, Welsh, Galician, Asturian, Quebecois, American, and various other tunes, songs, and stories that have become (at least partially) accepted in Irish sessions. So if there’s an Italian tune that you hear played in Irish sessions, then by all means, it could become part of this site. But I would certainly not like to see this site become a multicultural everything to everybody with regards to traditional or folk music…

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

I like Reverend’s take on it above — If you’ve heard it in an Irish session then it’s a candidate for including in the tune database.

Another way to think of it, is that Irish traditional music is the center of gravity for the database and forum, with a few close planets orbiting that center from related styles like Scottish, Shetland, Breton, Cape Breton. Further away in the outer planetary orbits you’ll find some Swedish, Galician and Quebecois music. Way out in the Oort cloud, you might find a tune from a very different tradition that’s here because some famous Irish artist recorded it, and it shows up in sessions. Like Kevin Burke’s recording of the Venezuelan waltz "La Partida." But Irish trad is the gravitational pull at the center.

As a side note, I have a particular aversion to Italian traditional tunes because one of my instruments is mandolin, and the stylistic approach to Italian music is very different on that instrument. There is a heavy emphasis on tremolo, almost a Classical music style. So maybe that’s another indication of whether a tune is suitable for the database or not, aside from geographical proximity to the British Isles. If it requires a change from how you play Irish tunes on your instrument to do the music justice, then maybe it’s not a good candidate.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

It’s not only members of this site who are chary of Italian folk songs - so are the Italians themselves. The Venetian authorities seriously considered forbidding gondoliers from singing ‘O Sole Mio’ (much beloved by tourists and ice cream adverts) because it’s a Neapolitan song (opposite end of the country). Venetian folk songs have something of a Tyrolean flavour.

https://www.italyheritage.com/italian-songs/regional/veneto/la-mula-de-parenzo.htm

https://www.italyheritage.com/italian-songs/regional/veneto/marieta-monta-in-gondoa.htm

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Some really interesting comments here thanks, to one and all.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

I’ve heard a whole lot of things in Irish sessions that I wouldn’t expect to see in the tunes database here — Chinese classical music, baroque lute tunes, Cindi Lauper songs, improvisations over Rhythm Changes, the list goes on. Sometimes the outliers are played by people new to sessions, and sometimes by regulars just stretching out. Not sure if the "heard it in an Irish session" criterion really works. ;)

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

That’s an interesting point, benhockenberry. I have certainly heard my share of weirdness in various sessions. But I didn’t necessarily mean that anything that has ever been done in an Irish session is fair game. I meant that if it is something that you hear in sessions (plural), meaning it has become part of the accepted repertoire of different sessions, then I think it would be OK for it to appear here…

An example might be the recent discussion that touched on the topic of the tune Crested Hens, which is a French waltz. So it’s not Irish, but there are 25 recordings of it in the recording database here, including Solas, which is where I first heard it. And I have heard it played in sessions. So I’m perfectly OK with it being in the tune database here…

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Sounds good to me!

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

I don’t think it should be limited to what’s played in sessions. There’s lot’s of tunes that aren’t typically played in a session that are still part of the Irish repertoire. I like to think of what’s allowable is the dance music of Ireland. This includes waltz’s and mazurka’s that have their roots in continental music but are nonetheless part of the collective dance music of Ireland. Don’t forget the polka’s and such from Sliabh Luachra, barn dances, Highlands, and other tunes that you may not hear in a session.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

https://thesession.org/discussions/1263#comment20120
Guidelines for The Session. Please read.
Posted by Jeremy January 13th, 2003

"Well, ask yourself this: is the tune played at your session? If the answer is yes, then it’s a session tune and you should go ahead and submit it. If the answer is no, then ask youself: would it go down well at your session? If the answer is still no, then it’s probably not a good idea to post that tune.

In light of that test, the actual country of origin of the tune becomes irrelevant.

If you have some obscure, exotic tune that you love to play alone in your room but wouldn’t dare play at a session, then thesession.org is probably not the place for it.

If, however,you have some undiscovered little gem that goes down a treat when you play it at your local session, then please, post it here.

Think of this site as being like a real session and treat the submission process like introducing a tune for the first time.

Like I said, I’ll be keeping a bit of a more watchful eye on the tune submissions. However, this isn’t something that’s entirely up to me.

The Session is *your* site."

Posted by .

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

I can’t see how it makes any difference!
It’s not like there a limited number of places.
All the ‘Irish’ tunes are here anyway.
The others can be fascinating.
I know a lot of Trad English/ Morris musicians who regularly consult this site because they think some obscure old Morris tune (or wotteffah) maybe here!!!
They very often are!!
Bring on the Scottish, Welsh, French, other European, East European, Middle Eastern, Klezmer, Chinese, Indian, Asian, Australian, Native American, Colonial American, Pacific, Jamaican, Rock’n’roll, Jazz, HipHop, Pop, Show tunes, nursery rhymes, classical, contemporary, ancient, medieval, Music Hall, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Zoroastrian, Pagan, Orange Day tunes, metal, punk, rebel songs et cetera, et cetera!!!!!

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

A counter-argument for filling the database with tunes completely unrelated to Irish trad, and that are never played in sessions, is that the database format is based on trad dance rhythms (jigs, reels, slip jigs, etc.). The reel category would end up as the default choice for all that non-Irish stuff in 4/4, making it useless for searching by key instead of tune name when looking for set ideas.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

I posted POLKA PERE POINTU on this website. It is a lovely French tune, very jolly. Any true Paddy would enjoy playing it……..

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

That’s a big assumption, - and I know it was done through affection, but don’t be surprised if in these politically-correct times, someone takes offence at the word "Paddy". Just sayin’.

Posted by .

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Yes, thank you Susan K.
I found it, and play it. Nice.
P.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Kenny,

It all depends on the context and company, I’d guess. We might have to rename hundreds of tunes and songs if that’s the case. :-)
I get your point too, of course.

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

"It all depends on the context and company, I’d guess". Of course, but humour is generally lost posting on an internet website.
"We might have to rename hundreds of tunes and songs if that’s the case". Not at all, not if the tune was named specifically for a person known as "Paddy".
It’s no big deal to me, I know no offence was meant, but there are far too many people about today whom it seems their sole purpose of existence is to be offended, if not for themselves, then on someone else’s behalf, whether wanted or not. I’ll leave it at that.

Posted by .

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

OK, Kenny, thanks. I’ll leave it at that too. :-)

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

Kenny - yes, political correctness has overcome us all.

An album has been re-issued with the new title : "Irish Person In The Smoke" :)

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

And "The Old Blind Dogs" - Aberdeen band - have become "The Chronologically and Visually-challenged Canines".
Off at a tangent a bit here, but I actually heard this on a bus to Schull in co. Cork I think in 1994 after the All-Ireland Fleadh in Kilkenny. The local radio station was being broadcast over speakers in the bus. There was a debate going on about the state of the pavements in Cork, and this guy, Jim, had phoned in. The presenter says, "Now Jim, I believe you are a guide-dog user…………….. " ! The whole bus exploded in laughter, and a voice came from the back, "Yer man’s feckin blind, ya bollox !". :)

Posted by .

Re: Italian tunes or ones having italian titles - wrong for The Session??

A debate about pavements?!*_* On the radio…………….. " !
I’m not surprised the bus exploded.

Posted by .