Help choosing a flute

I have a little bit of experience with regular silver Boehm flutes and some experience with tin whistles. I’d like to purchase a simple system Irish flute. I’ve been looking at McNeela’s offerings. I don’t have a tremendous amount to spend, so I’ve focused on two models. First if the “New Irish Cocuswood” flute. Second, is the African Blackwood flute. Interestingly the cocuswood is LESS expensive.

I guess, my question is: which would be a better investment? Would the African Blackwood be worth the extra money? Also, does anyone have personal experience with them? Are they true conical bore flutes like what one would find in the 19th century?

I’ll put links to the two flutes here.
https://mcneelamusic.com/mcneela-africa … lined-box/
https://mcneelamusic.com/the-irish-cocu … lined-box/

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I don’t want to purchase something I’ll quickly ‘outgrow’. But that being said, my funds are limited. I’m in a very rural area right now and will probably have to get something ‘unheard’. I’m in rural southern Colorado, USA.

I think these are the links OP refers to.

https://mcneelamusic.com/mcneela-african-blackwood-flute-with-foam-lined-box/
https://mcneelamusic.com/the-irish-cocuswood-flute-with-foam-lined-box/

I know there’s lots of different views on this but I still think the Hamilton “practice flute” is a good starting point. It won’t be your last flute but you can get plenty sound out of it and not have problems with it, and you can start saving for the Olwell.

What I’m not convinced by is the idea of spending a fair old chunk on a medium priced flute when you’re likely to want to upgrade it again in the future.

That is not real cocus wood.

IMO, best to purchase domestically. There are hidden costs and hassles when buying from overseas. There are plenty of good domestic options. Folk Flute, Copley Delrin model are close to your price and will last you a long time. Also check out some of the offerings at The Irish Flute Store.

First off, that is not true Cocus Wood, as Rudall and Rose knew it. It is Sheesam or Shisham, Dalbergia sissoo or North Indian Rosewood. Run away, run away. What is properly known in our world as Cocus Wood is Brya Ebenus, or Jamaican Raintree wood. Not a Dalbergia, and extremely scarce.

Calum has a point, but so does Aaron. A used delrin flute can sometimes be had for not so much money, and would be nearer the middle depth of the pool, can serve for years, and be a knock-about or camping flute, and can be of service in a pub brawl 🙂

The McNeela flutes are made to spec for the shop by a Chinese or Pakistani manufacturer. I thought he was gettting them from China at one point but this could have changed.
Folk flute, Copley Delrin, as Aaron mentioned above are hand crafted solid choices that will be better flutes.
Also keep an eye on eBay and Chiff and Fipple the overall market for flutes is extremely low and flutes can be had for very little money with some patience.

my experience of flute playing is to buy a decent one without keys and see how you are getting on. this could be a second hand flute but try to make sure it is from a reputable maker. Cotter, Doyle, Hamilton, watson, O’Brien. I’ve just picked these as they are around Clare/Galway region. If yo uare getting on well, put in an order for a keyed flute as these sometimes take 2 to 3 years to deliver. if you have bought a fairly good first flut, you should get your money back on it after playing it for a few years

I agree about staying with a good quality, but reasonably priced flute, and buying one domestically. If you are like most of the flute players I know, you will develop an idea of what the best flute is for you after you have been playing a while.

The Irish flute store is in Greely. The opposite corner of the state from you, but maybe worth taking a trip and a lesson from Blayne, the owner, is very knowledgeable as well as great to work with. Give him a call. https://www.irishflutestore.com/

The flutes you listed are (generally) Pakistani or Chinese in origin, of low quality material and craftsmanship and generally poor quality musical instrument. eBay is flooded with adverts for such “flutes”. They are zero investment value and likely not even a good instrument to learn on. The consensus seems to be that they are best avoided.

The Hamilton practice flute would be a better option. Here’s one for sale in CONUS @$100 - http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=109551

A Casey Burns folk flute or Geoffrey Ellis “essential” flute would also offer a better starting point. Both made in USA.

http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php
https://www.ellisflutes.com/world-flutes/transverse-folk

If you keep an eye on Irish Flute Store (mentioned by previous poster)… from time to time you will see a nice 5-key antique French flute offered for around $400-600. They are wonderful value and if you get an A440 model (many unfortunately are low pitch instruments) - they are a great playing instrument.

The reality is that a quality keyless instrument from a reputable maker is likely going to cost €750-1250 (new) and used instruments in good condition are offered between 75% and 90% of new price.

I second the vote for talking to Blayne at the Irish Flute Store in Greeley. You can tell him what you’re looking for and what your budget is, and he can also keep an eye out for you, since he deals in a fair number of used flutes. Another potential Colorado connection would be Rob Forbes, in Boulder. He makes some nice delrin flutes as well: http://forbesflutes.com/

I’ll third or fourth, whatever, a recommendation to talk with Blayne at the Irish Flute Store, especially since you’re in the same state. I’ve bought one flute and one low whistle there, and sold a flute recently on consignment. Blayne knows his stuff. A good teacher too, from what I’ve heard.

Rob Forbes makes terrific flutes. Powerful and zero maintenance. He made my first simple system flute and I have never regretted about that choice.

Don’t forget Damian Thompson in the UK. He makes wonderful flutes both in Delrin and in Blackwood.
I had his Pratten style in Delrin, and it was powerful and a joy to play. I don’t play flute now due to problems with my hand, but I totally recommend Damian’s instruments!!

I too bought a flute from The Irish Flute store and had a great experience. I purchased my go-to Windward, he accepted a trade for a less expensive instrument.

http://www.forbesflutes.com/ordering.html

M & E polymer. Far better than anycheaper wooden flute.

I bought a fully keyed Delrin from Mcneela and I don’t regret it. It’s a bit heavy, but the tone is good and loud.
Mind you I still prefer my Aulos Baroque flute. Just one key, but you can play in any key.

I went with a Folk Flute by Casey Burns. Purchased it used from a gentleman on chiffandfipple.com. I really like it but I’m having a just a little bit of trouble adjusting to the G (third hole on left hand). It’s a little difficult for me to get to it reliably. I guess I just need a bit more practice. A concert flute it is not! 😉 I’m also getting a Copley Delrin flute for traveling and less than ideal weather. I’m on his waiting list, so I have plenty of time to save up for one.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

Slán go fóill!

Congrats on the Folk Flute as a gateway into this realm of “Irish” flutes.

The difficulty with the G hole is probably just getting used to the need to cover open holes completely, if your prior experience is with Boehm flutes. It won’t take long to get your fingers flapping, tapping and sliding on those open tone holes in true Irish style!

Typically the G note is one of the easiest and strongest notes on the simple-system flute. Some of the other notes sometimes have tonal or intonation compromises. Casey’s flutes are well-rated, but I don’t have experience with them.

I might guess that the stretch for the third finger (on both hands?) is slightly longer than you expect - it is on my antique flute. You do get used to it.

Are there any keyed traditional flutes with a G key?

The flute designed by Abel Siccama (1846) has a G key and a D key. The key total is thus 10 keys instead of eight. I own one and it is the finest flute I’ve ever played. I got it to manage a hand issue, but it is louder, with better intonation than anything out there, which was a heckuva bonus. Hard to find them, though.

Probably any maker who does pin-mounted keys can put an extender within reach to cover the G hole (LH3), similar to a Siccama. On a standard keyed simple system flute, the first 6 keys are normally closed, and pressing the key touch opens them. The low C & C# foot keys are normally in the open position, and pressing the key touch closes them.

Having keys to play D and G is something you don’t want when you play with ornements.
You need an open D hole for cranning on D and rolling on E.
You need an open G hole for rolling on E,F,G and A.
You also need them to slide from D to E and from G to A.

Otherwise, don’t bother learning the simple system flute, you can play on your Boehm as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mE6j-WjE18

play video

That is incorrect, Damien. Sliding off G is an issue, though. I would never slide off D. Crans and rolls are not affected in any way.

Since 99.9% of tunes use F#, using a Boehm flute would be far more problematic, although a few players use it. I have played a Boehm flute for almost 50 years and would never use it for Irish although I have tried. Wrong sound, imho.

Thanks everyone. I am still slugging through with my Casey Burns flute. It’s no less of a problem now than when I started. I need to see if I can get a keyed flute to help along. I’ve read about the Abel Siccama flutes before and it’d be a godsend if someone made modern versions of it. My particular anatomy just isn’t suited for a simple system flute (at least not the Casey Burns). I even was loaned a trial flute from Mr. Copley, with extra joints to be able to maneuver the holes to suit the particular player. I couldn’t even get it adjusted to where it was comfortable. Unfortunately, I’m not well-heeled enough to have a wooden flute custom designed and made. I’ll just have to keep slugging away with the Casey Burns until I can find an antique or modern keyed flute that “fits”. Keep up the suggestions though. I can’t be the only person on the planet with this problem!

Casey does make ‘ergonomic’ and ‘small handed’ versions of his folk flutes. Have you looked into that?