Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

First hop jig here. They have it as Tipperary Hills. Two slip jigs come up as The Hills of Tipperary here, both with the additional name of Tipperary Hills. However, neither of them seem to be this tune. Maybe they got the name wrong or maybe there is a third tune called Tipperary Hills? Do any of you know this tune?

Also, is it common for hop jigs to come out sounding like Waltzes? This set sounds very Waltz like to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=50&v=7eHzzIWZ8AA&feature=emb_logo

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

@Nigel
Yeah, you’re right, I’m not sure what happened here. It’s definitely that one. I could have sworn that I played through those settings, but obviously I didn’t. How embarrassing!

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

@Loughcurra
That sounds more like it. I suppose that the strummers were just taking liberties with their rhythms in the video. They make them sound like Waltzes to my ear.

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

there was a big discussion about the difference between slip and hop jigs last year, when I learnt that Fig for a Kiss that I ‘d been playing for years as a slip jig was in fact a ‘hop’. I guess its like slides and jigs, tricky to hear the difference sometimes…………..

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

@Christy

Yeah, I wish I was more certain about these things. Maybe in time…

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

ps I’m pretty sure that 1st tune was on a Bothy Band recording back in the day…………

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

@Christy

You are right! It is on Old Hag You Have Killed Me. That’s probably why it grabbed my ear.

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

OHYHKM - thats the one!

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

First hop jig is Michael Gormans and second one is Cucanandy ( recorded by Cran on their first album) together also with Dusty millar as a set
Marin

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

Cheeky Elf "… is it common for hop jigs to come out sounding like Waltzes?"

If by ‘sounding like waltzes’ you mean 3/4, then yes, when hop jigs are played at the tempo in this clip (which is fairly brisk but not unusally so), it tends to emphasise the ‘triple’ feel more than the ‘jig’ feel, so groups of three quavers can end up sounding more like melodic embellishments than fundamental rhythmic building blocks. The playing in this clip is fairly ‘dotted’ (about 2:1) but they are sometimes played almost ‘straight’ (i.e. 1:1 or close to it), making them sound even less like jigs.

…But all that is 3/4 is not a waltz. Far from it.

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

A "hop" jig is the same as a "slip" jig (9/8 time), isn’t it? Is "hop" jig the US name, just curious? I’d always seen "slip jigs" in Irish tune books I’ve owned or borrowed. "Kid on the Mountain" is one of my favourites - (used to add chords and play it on piano).

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

I’m sure there was a more recent discussion on hop/slip jigs, like in the last year or maybe even 6 months, I just can’t locate it?

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

thats the one AB, thanks

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

This excerpt:

https://www.itma.ie/joyce/book/hop-jig

from a book published in the 1850s sheds light on the hop jig and the associated dance style (click ‘pdf view’ to see a scan of the manuscript page). I very much like hop jigs and the waltz-like meter when the are played blindingly fast as in the YouTube clip. Would love to find examples of them being danced as described by Mr. Joyce quoted in the above excerpt:
“The ‘steps’ of a hop jig are quite unlike those of any other dance,—they all consist of light and graceful skipping,—most exciting, and not at all so fatiguing as the steps of a reel or a double jig. In general the floor is struck, or rather, tipped lightly, three times during every bar of the tune; and from this description, the appropriateness of the names ‘hop jig,’ and ‘slip time,’ will be at once apparent. Occasionally, however, the heavier steps of the double jig dance are applied to this also; but from the greater quickness with which it is necessary to perform them, the exercise is excessively fatiguing.”

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

You’re welcome, Christy Taylor.

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

If you search youtube for single jigs you will find some dance comp videos or school videos. Single/hop jigs are not taught much anymore and are not in most competitions but do show up in the CLRG grade exams, so most teachers are familiar with them. Single/hop jig is not the same as slip jig in dance terms and I don’t think in music approach either. People using the term hop interchangeably with single jig kind of makes sense as dances do tend to be hoppy and a lot of movement. Regular jigs in dance are a bit more contained in area. Slip jigs vvvery different, much more graceful flow and rhythm. Love slip jigs ❤

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

jond : I love the sound of "light and graceful skipping"! It could almost be a "skip jig" then rather than a "slip jig".

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

Yes! I can almost imagine how it might look from the old description above - but I can’t find any videos of Irish dancers doing a hop jig! I wonder that particular dance step has died out, as the term hop jig is now apparently used to refer to a single jig.

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Sample hop jig music/dance

Maybe our youtube algorithms are different 🙂 but when I type in single jig there is a large assortment of videos of dance and single jig music (some by feis musicians) like this (single jig music for dancers)

https://youtu.be/IT4ZJ4LN6K8


And this single jig (dance)

https://youtu.be/LDEpH0qEus8


" I love the sound of "light and graceful skipping"! It could almost be a "skip jig" then rather than a "slip jig".

# Posted by Susan K "

To me, slip jigs are not "skippy" at all. Much more flow and grace. This is a nice example.

(Slip jig/dance)
https://youtu.be/Zi8NXlMZLXg

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

K O’C - you are talking about the Irish step dancer term, which is not the same as what Irish traditional musicians are using. For step dancers a "hop jig" is a dance done to a single jig (6/8). For musicians, a hop jig is a tune type that is related to slip jigs (9/8). So your answers don’t really apply to this thread, which is trying to understand the difference between the hop jig tune type and slip jigs.

For the hop jig tune type, there are steps to it, but most have indeed been lost. However, see this great video album from Jackie O’Riley and Rebecca McGowan for an example: https://www.fromthefloordance.com/ The last preview is a preview of the hop jig, but then you can buy the whole album.

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

Thanks for that, Nico!

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

By the way, to add some fun and confusion:
- Historically, hop jig and slip jig were used interchangeably (or possibly regionally) for the same thing
- An early recording of Michael Gorman of the Hills of Tipperary (or the Tipperary Hills, the first tune in the OP’s linked video) has him calling it a slip jig, and Kid on the Mountain a hop jig (ie reverse from how we use the terms now)

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

‘Cucanandy’ seems to sound very like the Northumbrian ‘Dance to yer Daddy’ - anyone know if there’s a historical connection?

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

You are correct Nico , I am coming at it from a dance perspective but since Irish traditional music is dance music, there ya go 🙂 I also misunderstood the original post title referring to hop jig . I have just never never seen the term hop jig used interchangeably with slip jig. In dance or music. ..but have seen it used for single jig.. But I see now the video the OP posted does have the 3 tunes listed as hop jigs (not sure if that is correct, is it?) so hence the confusion. Aren’t all the other tunes listed above also slip jigs???

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

That is great, Nico! Thank you!

Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

See the unnamed tune in this lonely thread https://thesession.org/discussions/44477
In previous centuries a hop jig was definitely 9/8, similar to a slip jig.
(The author also makes reference to the time signature as ‘slip time’.)
Also by analogy single jig:double jig :: hop jig:slip jig
Your mileage may vary
Done and dusted till the next hop jig thread?
🙂

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Re: Tune ID/Confirmation and general hop jig question

Hi K O’C - I think the usage of hop jig by Irish step dancers to refer to a dance done to a single jig is a relatively new thing. Certainly it’s not used by old style dancers, and appears to be unique to competition step dancing… But I don’t know the history from that side very well.

From the music (and old style dance) side, historically, hop jig and slip jig were used for 9/8 tunes, and it appears they were used interchangeably (or perhaps regionally). For one example of this interchangeability, look at O’Neill’s Music or Ireland.

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