Bouzouki or Guitar bouzouki

Hello, I’m a guitarist accompanying Irish music. I want to start learning Irish bouzouki so I’m in the process of searching an instrument.
I have several question regarding the instrument:
- Should I buy an Irish (flat back) bouzouki or should I buy a Guitar bouzouki? I know John Doyle plays the latter.
- Should I equip the instrument with octave strings on the 3rd and 4th string or put unison strings?

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Dany

The body style doesn’t matter a whit. Look for one that A.) plays in tune all the way up and down the neck, B.) That has a decent, playable neck that won’t give you arthritis when you play it, C.) Has a sound that you like, D.) That you can afford.

If you can find that, get it, and don’t worry about the body type.

It’s great if it projects, too, but that’s what pickups are for, if that’s an issue.

It doesn’t matter what John Doyle plays. There’s only one John Doyle. Just like there’s only one Dany Dhont!

I have an Ashbury that is not expensive, but very playable, except in open position, and plays in tune all the way up the neck. The tradeoff: It’s not a loud instrument at all, and not very “big sounding” in the bass. But it’s fine for small sessions acoustically. I have KMD pickup installed which I’m very happy with (there are other great alternatives, too, but you won’t go wrong with a 3-contact KMD.

A 4-contact one would get a little crowded inside, so go with three, if you have to install one later.

If you don’t already have a strong preference for unison vs. octave, I’d lean toward unison. But you’ll be fine either way. Octave strings will be slightly more playable, and put a little less strain on the neck. But I’ve found that it’s a little harder to pick up melodies with octave strings, when I’m playing with a bouzouki player who starts tunes.

I wouldn’t stretch my budget over one body style vs. another. If you want to spend money, and you can find instruments that will play in tune, direct your money to getting one with great wood, and hence, a great sound. Those instruments hold their value very well (better than the mid-range stuff) if you take care of them. There’s a shortage of really good zouks, and the top makers have long backlogs. So if you take care of your axe and you’re willing to sell judiciously, it’s like playing them for free!!

Hope that helps!

Octave strings if you are only playing chords; otherwise it gets very confusing when playing melody.

When sitting for hours in a session, some people find the guitar body style more comfortable, resting the waist on the right thigh (assuming you pick right handed). This stabilizes the instrument and also shifts the neck rightward, reducing your left hand reach (which helps, especially on longer scale zouks). Relatively minor considerations, in the grand scheme of things, but for some people, they’re game changers.

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

@Jason: very valuable info, thanks man!
@Dick: am I correct that most of Irish bouzouki’s would have unison strings?
@gimpy: haven’t thought about that but comfort could indeed be a parameter for choosing, thx!

I personally prefer the lower weight and carry profile of a teardrop shape, which may or may not be worth considering in your situation. You also will get fewer looks of terror from the melody players when you approach a new session with what looks like a guitar. 😉
But joking aside, as was said above, find the one that speaks to you and your budget and you won’t go wrong either way.

Dany,
I’m a cittern player so I do not know how bouzouki players string their instruments. I have tried it both ways on the cittern; octaves give a very rich sound for chording but really are confusing on melody (for me anyway). Re shape and holding; I have a teardrop and use a strap sitting or standing.

The principle difference is not really body shape but how the strings are attached, guitar style into the bridge with pegs or with a floating archtop bridge. That makes a big difference to the sound of the instrument. Some people will assert that you need an archtop to make the thing sound like a bouzouki, something I don’t consider myself qualified to have an opinion on.

You might want to join the very active Irish Bouzouki group on Facebook where you will get many competing answers to these questions. 🙂 Personally I like the teardrop shape because it’s different from my guitar. I don’t find it more difficult to hold than a guitar or guizouki. I’m guessing most players of Irish trad use unison strings rather than octave strings because you’re not just playing chords but you’re also playing countermelodies, and to have some octave and some unison strings sounds awkward.

As with most musical instruments, because there are so many variables with zouk construction and preferences can be so personal, it really helps to play a range of zouks to find out what you like before you buy.

FWIW, all of the guitar-bodied zouks I’ve seen have had floating bridges. Similar to these: http://www.laughlinguitars.ca/guitar-shaped-bouzouki.htm

This community is amazing!
Thank you all for such valuable information.
So far I think I’ll go for a tear shaped body and use a strap when playing in a session.
I’ll take unison strings for session reasons too.
It’s a bit difficult to go out to a shop and play a range of bouzouki’s though. First of all, the nearest music shop is about 400km from where I live and I’ve never played one but I guess being a guitarist, I might get a sound rather quickly.
Anyone has an opinion on the McNeela instruments? Is 400 to 500 € an acceptable price range for descent instrument?

Good luck in your search and happy sessioning. You’ll want to listen to some of the great zouk backers out there as you work towards your own accompaniment style. This site also has a deep archive of (mostly) good advice on backing tunes.

Great advice above, and it sounds like you’re landing on a good decision! The one thing I would say is that you should immediately embrace the differences between guitar and bouzouki. A number of people pick up the bouzouki and start playing it like a guitar, when in reality, you should try to embrace the “bouzoukiness” of the the new instrument, and learn to play it in a different style than you play guitar. Bouzoukis, especially in “open tunings” like GDAD, give you the ability to do a lot of contrapuntal accompaniment, and picking patterns that leave some of the strings ringing, as opposed to just figuring out some chords and just strumming away. Best of luck with your new endeavor!

Kind of seconding & thriving a lot of what’s been said. All these decisions (guitar vs teardrop, octave vs unison) are kind of personal preference. Listening to a lot of players and seeing whose sound you like can help guide you to an instrument, but there is the sad truth that there aren’t a lot of stores out there where you can compare & contrast very many! If you’re at a session or festival where you have the option to check out some different ones, I highly recommend it. I started off with the cheapest thing I could find, and it was TERRIBLE. But it taught me that I actually do love the instrument, so I saved up for a good one. I happened to be at a camp where there were a lot of bouzoukoid instruments, and I tried them all, likely to the point of being irritating. But I figured out what I like. Good luck!

+1 for Bob Laughlin GBOMs. I played some of them, they are great. he has several different types, some sound more like a guitar, other sound more like a mandolin. and this is my general observation,
guitar-body, flat top, carved top, they all sound different. some are more like guitars (more bass,
more sustain), some are more like mandolins (strong attack, good cut-through the 100 pipers). I hope
you find the right one for you.

A few comments for new people:
- must have an adjustable truss rod (some vintage instruments were built without, the neck has bent, unplayable).
- must have floating bridge (to adjust intonation to your choice of strings and your style of playing. guitar-style fixed bridge cannot do this)
- GDAD/GDAE is non-issue, same strings can be tuned both ways
- unison/octave tuning is a small issue, switching between them requires inexpensive and reversible adjustment to nut and bridge.
- scale length. if you started on guitar, go for guitar scale length (longer neck). you will love how much fretboard real estate you have compared to a small mandolin. (you will have to shift positions and use the capo, but you already do this on guitar). (some people prefer shorter scale instruments, read all about it on the mandolin cafe forums).
- be very careful with your fretting hand, especially if you play lots of bar chords. very easy to irritate the wrist and the finger joints. any pain or discomfort == stop immediately, rest, do some finger stretches, etc.
- use flat wound strings (I use Thomastic, $$$) , your fingers will like it (you cannot please both your ears and your fingers at the same time!)

For ideas and possibilities on “accompanying” watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgQaHtuSBCg

play video

Flatwounds?! Wow. Are many folks using flats? (I’m using Elixir guitar strings, which I haven’t changed since mid pandemic.)

I play both. The guitar IMO is the best instrument in a sess— DADGAD projects best— but if I were gonna buy a zouk for backing, I would get a guitar-bodied one and not tune it to octaves. Four notes.

Chris

Mandocello is a different beast - not a great role model for zouk session backing IMO. For starters, check out Eoin O’Neill, Daoirí Farrell with Four Winds, Eamon Doorley, Cathal Ó Curráin, and of course Alec Finn & Dónal Lunny.

I would vote for unison strings on the whole instrument.

I have a Thomann concert bouzouki, which is mediocre. I now wish I would have spent the extra money and got a Gold Tone

I can understand @Laurent but it’s 3 times the price! Is it possible to get a descent Bouzouki under 500€?

quest “something for nothing” detected. likelihood of success estimate is low. In my experience, “cheap” CBOMs come from three sources, (1) East European, under-built (too light), nice tone, but quiet and develop structural problems, (2) Asian, build at furniture factories (with results as expected), (3) 1980-1990 vintage instruments with structural defects (i.e. no truss rod, warped top). They could be usable home/practice instruments, but for something that works i.e. at an Irish session, go one level up above “cheap”. For realistic prices, head to the mandolin cafe classifieds. 54 ads in the CBOM section, as of now.

Think about what mandocello8 said about scale length. I have a Fylde and a Sobell. The Sobell is shorter scale length and much easier for leads, I love the Fylde with octave strings for singing. You may think that a few inches in scale length won’t make a difference, it does on the stretch.

Re scale length. I have a Fylde arch top cittern and tune it one tone below normal. Capo’ed at the second fret it gives a more useful scale length for tunes and capo off it gives access to flat keys with easier chord shapes. i.e. C shapes for Bb, G shapes for F. My normal tuning is GDAEA for tunes and most songs with occasional forays into ADADA for more modal songs. The GDAEA tuning means that the chord shapes are very similar to mandolin and the high B is now on the top string, second fret. I use Newtone strings which sound good and last well. Unison gauges are 46,35,23,13,09.

I would second the advice to go for a better instrument. It will play better, give you more enjoyment, you will not be fighting it, it will last longer and it will hold its value better. With a cheaper one you may loose all of its value.

thank you all for such valuable information. I’ll definitely go for a shorter scale length. Finger stretching is an issue for me. I’ll postpone my purchase until I can afford a middle class instrument. Would I find a descent instrument at 1500€?

you ask for instrument prices. the mandolin cafe classifieds (CBOM section) is a good place to start looking. there is also reverb.com classifieds. Some sellers are Europe-based, some sellers ship world-wide. USD prices trivially convert to Euros. https://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&query=category&category=CBOM&results_format=headlines

Get on to Kieran in Moloney music in Galway. he carries a range of APC bouzoukis that are hamd made in Portugal. I have owned 5 of their instruments over the years and all around your price range. Unbeatable imo.
They have a guitar bouzouki that was first built for me, then they put them in to production.

https://www.moloneymusic.com/Products/Mandolin_Bouzouki_Family/Bouzouki__Cittern#nav10MandolinBouzoukiFamily

Thanks zoukibanjo22, really valuable! We’ll be in Galway mid may so I’ll definitely go to see him!