Tail Pieces. Any recommendations?

I purchased a second hand(most of them are) fiddle a wee while ago.

It’s a German make and it isn’t too bad really for the price although I do prefer the tone and feel of my main regular instrument.

Anyway, I feel that I should be playing it more often. At the moment, I only have fine tuners on the A and E strings and, although it doesn’t go out of tune too much, it is a bit irritating to have to use the actual pegs to adjust the bottom strings. That’s more likely to be necessary if I’ve not picked it up for a while, of course!

Now many of you might want to argue that you get a better tone without fine tuners and that is probably the case. However, I’d rather be lazy. 🙂

Unfortunately, the tail piece which is fitted at the moment isn’t suitable for fine tuners on the bottom two strings. So, I’ve been considering purchasing a new one.

On checking online, I see that there are several possibilities and prices. Many more than I thought, actually, as I was expecting the choices to be fairly standard. So, I’m wondering if anyone had recommendations as to which would be the best product to buy. It doesn’t have to be the most expensive as long as it’s durable and doesn’t have an adverse effect on the tone.

I don’t want to buy anything too cheap if the quality is poor. On the other hand, I don’t want to spend a lot of money either if it’s unecessary. After all, it’s a fairly modest fiddle in the great scheme of things.

Another option would be for me to take it to a violin maker/shop and get one fitted. This would also ensure that the set up wasn’t affected. However, I think it’s probably something I could manage to do myself and it would be less costly.

Looking forward to your advice.

Just found some interesting threads here.

https://thesession.org/discussions/3885

https://thesession.org/discussions/43277

https://thesession.org/discussions/15958

However, I’d still welcome further discussion.
I noted that in one of the above threads, it was suggested that fine tuners can be more of an advantage on instruments where the actual pegs are of poorer quality or not fitted correctly. That makes sense too, of course.

I always use Wittner tail parts. Good quality and not too expensive.

take it to the luthier and see if he can do it. he could on my 100 year old hand me down fiddle.

Wittner…

The Wittner/other metal tailpieces with built in tuners work fine, as long as the tuner screws don’t get banged around, however, they are not the greatest aesthetically. There are also some wooden tailpieces with built-in screws which are not too ugly, can’t remember the maker’s name. International Violin, Ltd may have them, but not sure.

Wittner (again). I used them all the time before changing to geared pegs. Easy to fit too. No need for a luthier, unless you want to take the opportunity to get a comprehensive check.

One point about the tonal consideration - with a Wittner with integral tuners, there’s usually less weight than a standard wood tailpiece with retrofit tuners.

Also, although not applicable in this case, tuning from geared pegs is a lot quicker and easier than tuning from the tailpiece tuners, and avoids the “fiddler’s contortion” when trying to bow the string while tuning it 🙂

It looks like a consensus Johnny! Just wondering, by the way, when you say ‘old’German‘, is your fiddle by chance one of those old Jacob Stainer models? the reason I ask is that I have one (1890) and they are quite controversial. Some ’fiddlers‘ love them while others ’violinists’ hate them. The Stainer body is a little larger than usual, and they tend to be really loud and harsh. I was fairly tolerant with mine and tried all kinds of strings, but no matter what I did it remained as shrill as hell. Rather than burn it (as some people on this site actually recommended), I put octave strings on it and it worked wonderfully (as low as a cello). Short viola string may also work well. This is just a passing thought in case you indeed have a dreaded Stainer (though I love mine now)

My 2 p.

I’ve had metal Wittner tailpieces (with built-in fine tuners) on several fiddles and was never happy with the tone. Does Wittner make a non-metal tailpiece? In every case, my fiddles’ tone, resonance, and responsiveness noticeably improved when I ditched the Wittner and installed a Pusch or similar *wooden* tailpiece with built-in fine tuners. I also prefer the aesthetic of the Pusch tailpieces. Wittner’s look a little steampunk to me. (Now if Wittner made a full-bore steampunk tailpiece with the resonance of wood, I’d be tempted.)

My regular tuning pegs are well fitted and work very well, but I like fine tuners all all four strings because I mostly use metal core strings and they respond well to the micro-adjustments that fine tuners allow. The tiniest of tweaks can be made quickly and accurately, even in mid-flight on a tune. Being perfectly in tune really brings out the full resonance of the fiddle and lets it sing. I also tend to play mostly in small sessions, sometimes just two or three of us, so tuning isn’t lost in a bigger session’s tsunami of noise.

Also, because I’m nomadic, my fiddle is regularly exposed to varying humidity levels. I take care to keep the case at a consistent humidity, but over the course of a 4-hour or 6-hour session, with the fiddle out of its case, adjusting to the pub’s ambient humidity can draw the strings flat or sharp. Fine tuners make it easier to efficiently keep the fiddle in tune, as I said, on the fly.

FWIW (and I have no affiliation with the manufacturer, just a satisfied customer), all the Pusch tailpieces I’ve owned have been beautifully made, bombproof, durable, and worked flawlessly. The fine tuners are superbly integrated so that it’s no harder than usual to install the tailpiece with the proper ratio of string length on either side of the bridge. The fine tuners themselves work smoothly—better than any other fine tuner I’ve run across.

Wow. Here in Australia I’ve never even heard of a ‘Pusch’. I’ll have to check them out . My first thought though, is that it sounds a little dodgy for a German instrument;- somehow, it sounds a little 1932 Hitler-ish

If you are going to fit the new tailpiece yourself, before you take the old one off measure the distance from where the string leaves the tailpiece (ie the thin strip of ebony the strings sit on) to the bridge. Adjust the tail gut length on the new one to maintain that afterlength distance. If you’re not entirely happy with the sound of the fiddle it might be worth getting a luthier to do it - apart from adjusting the afterlength there are other minor tweaks he can do at the same time to adjust the sound to your liking.

Thanks for that, Mark.

I knew it was important to replace the bridge in the right position and I should be able to do that. I was less sure if the size or weight of the tail piece would matter as much but, obviously, it does too.

There would be no harm in phoning up a local violin shop/luthier for advice and a rough estimate of costs, I guess.

Hi Gobby,

No, it’s *apparently* an E. R. Schmidt violin.

“E R Schmidt not genuine without this signature”

There is a signature which looks similar to those I’ve seen in photographs online.

It’s probably not worth a fortune even if everything is genuine but it’s a good fiddle, in my opinion, for the price I paid. The tone is not as mellow as that of my regular fiddle but there may be slightly more volume. Everyone has different preferences, in that respect, anyway.

Of course, my solution is to replace the pegs with Wittner or Perfection pegs, and a nice wooden tailpiece with no fine tuners. A bit more costly, perhaps, but works well for me. Or is it more costly?? Fine tuners retail for $12-$15 USD each, Wittners pegs from International Violin run around $15 /each.
No more fallen bridge due to popped pegs/loose strings, and usually in tune or close right out of the case.

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Just to let you know that I have just made enquiries at well known violin shop in Edinburgh and the price quoted is quite reasonable. It will ensure that everything is set up OK too. So, that’s what I’ll probably do to same myself a bit of time and hassle. It’s also an excuse to visit my old “works” club across the road there.

They say that they use the Wittner tail pieces too.
🙂

A little update - I said earlier that I used Wittner tailpieces (true), but after reading gimpy’s post, I checked the actual tailpieces themselves.

The last two violins I bought had Wittner Ultra tailpieces (made from carbon fibre, or similar), as opposed to Wittner Original, which are “light alloy”.

Since I had the violins fitted with Wittner geared pegs (to replace the original friction pegs), I didn’t bother too much about the original tailpieces.

To confuse things even further, the Wittner Original (alloy) is about twice the price of the Wittner Ultra (composite) !

@Mackeagan “Wittners pegs from International Violin run around $15 /each.”

…but you need to pay the luthier to have them fitted, as the original peg-holes need to be re-reamed.

I wonder if the Wittner Ultra sounds better than the old alloy tailpiece. Would be a bit of a headache to do a comparison test, but would be interesting to see responsiveness across frequencies. Odd that the alloys are costlier.

I’d guess there would be no discernible difference between the wooden and the composite tailpiciece, but the alloy might sound a little different.

At least they are all quality products, with no buzzes, rattles and other noises like on cheaper models.